Social Solutions Al Shabab Government Can Learn from Secular Father Of Turkey

[genius pauper.]

^^^it beats logic to see a 'purposeless being' like raamsade should be bothered about humanity!! after all, he doesnt know what he is or why he is here,,,,,,,,,,,only after he defines himself shall he be 'being'.

 

nur thanks for the translation.

 

p.s; its important to note that islam is one thing and alshabab is another.

islam is perfect but alshabab is not, they can commit wrong which is subject to corre ction,

[Nur]

GP bro.

 

Well put, your conclusion speaks wisdom, Islamic principles are permanent, but those who apply the principles can come short to live up to its lofty goals due to the theater in which they operate and the entire environment around them. For many Somalis, its easy to point fingers, but very hard to lend a hand to those in sincere search for a solution to Somalia's woes.

 

 

Nur

[burahadeer]

Hahaa,Now legitimicing al shabab & the likes.The good thing,they ain't coming governing close to any where--except the little enclaves they keep fighting to hold on to.Why over look the fact that more than 2/3 of the country has been stable for the last 15yrs(from Dusa Mareb to Zeila),& that life in those areas is much better than most blk african countries.Those who advocate death & destruction in the name of religion will be held accountable along with the red handed ones.The day is coming--not very far.

 

Search for a solution?

1-We know 2 entities that r very stable(punt/som land).Most people in those areas live a normal life-private business is booming.Telecommunications are almost best in africa--24 hr electricity & water in all major cities,even most villages have lite.Transportation in big towns?-gridlock some times reminds u other places.Peace.People travel all over the country freely,& specially these 2 regions.U can drive ur small car from DMareb to Zeila alone.How many people killed in this area last yr---less than 10(were people who know each other & mostly of the same qabil) .Now,if u want a solution,the 3rd part(Bweyne-Kismayo)must first have peace--the people must be representative of thm selves like those other 2 regions--not under the yoke of blood thirsty shabab.Then all 3 regions can start talking in earnest.As long as a bunch of prima donnas running with guns r around in the latter,the 2 up north will keep moving forward & no shabab will ever set foot here.That is if u follow the reality on the ground.I tell u any one with dictatorial ambitions has no chance in today's somalia--all they do is prolong suffering.Some people talk about international recognition-bull!-if it comes it's o.k.but it is not necessity.People have learned to count on thmslvs.They built universities,hospitals,roads,bridges(4 bridges in burao alone).Very efficient,24hr electricity,running water in every house that can afford,tv's,internet cafes every where,on time buses in big cities,exchange co.(i.e Dshiil).Video theatres dotted all ova towns-Newspapers --hahaa & go check the mansions & beautiful villas every where.Children having corn flakes,etc,as breakfast.Even soap operas is translated to somali-& women watch at least 3 times a day..YE NOW TALK ABOUT RELIGION--islam don't allow this or that.BLACKMAILING people of being christian---that time has passed.IF U LIVE BY THE SWORD u WILL DIE BY THE SWORD.

Kuli nafsin bimaa kasabat rahiinatun.

Religion is an individual thing.If it is not-& each muslim is responsible for others--then let us share the wealth of the GULF(petro $s).

Why somali refuges doing in Europe & Americas?why ur islamic & rich brothers bring couple of ships & pick up those refuges scattered thru the horn.Why gulf states don't give us passports,like we have in the west.Even somalis who were born there don't have residential papers & can't go to universities even if they pay for it.

You know only when enough of us from the west go back(like the jews from europe after 2nd world war),can the country be set on a steady course--in the meantime-let thm have peace.We survived againest all odds & we will live with dignity & prosper.Very soon indeed, Insha allah.

 

Democracy & freedom for ever.Religion has nothing to do with politics--Separate period.

If Shabab and the likes want to impose on unsuspecting populace--they will get the knife under their chin.We haven't started yet.

 

Originally posted by Raamsade:

The clearest indication yet that Nur is Alshabaab -- designated international terrorist organization that took responsibility for the massacre of madina hotel in Beledweyne -- sympathizer.

 

Alshabaab government?

 

No wonder you're losing credibility in the eyes of SOLers.

Agree with you-these guys think they can have a free hand,& their sympathizers can enjoy live in the west while traumatizing people back home.Nowadays,they started coming to the net in droves--even under somali models & singers.They live by killing,maiming & threatening.We need to take a stand.

 

Those of you,so called islamists,u don't spare any one againest u,but u get spared by others.So far it's been a one way street for u--but that is all going to change....

 

[ May 30, 2010, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: Nur ]

[Polanyi]

burahadeer. ma computerka ku cusubtahay? lol. slow down, man.

[Polanyi]

Good post, Kashafa. You summed up the wretched cow, aka Raamsade in a few words. This individual actually supports the murder, rape and illegal colonisation of the Palestinians, and more suprisingly, the SOmali people in the Ocaden. Raamsade aka Xaarsade believes that the Ocaden region is part and parcel of Ethiopia. I wouldn't be surprised if he reports posts on Sol. lolllllllllll. wasteman and a half. But I do admire Nurs patience with such ppl.

[Raamsade]

This thread has exposed the true nature of many Jihadi wannabes: boorish, benighted, hypocritical, mendacious, crass (what's with the xaar business?), duplicitous etc.

 

It's been illuminating yet disturbing.

[burahadeer]

Originally posted by Raamsade:

This thread has exposed the true nature of many Jihadi wannabes: boorish, benighted, hypocritical, mendacious, crass (what's with the xaar business?), duplicitous etc.

 

It's been illuminating yet disturbing.

YE they been in the net for quite some time(jihadists in general).It's a new PR went awol.They trying to silence their adversaries,then take over every somali site.Certain people were sent to every page.

[LayZie G.]

Nur, you are in fact saying a group of M**ryaans, funded by foreign entities are "ordained by god" and are carrying the wishes of God by killing and maiming God's subjects? Did I leave anything else out based on the answers you provided abovE?

 

You honestly believe Abu fake and Abu dooli attended Islamic school, long enough inay quraanka kasoo baxeen?

 

Do you really believe these criminals, who hunt family members for not producing their 10 yr old son in order to fight 'jihad" through intimidation are ordained by God? These criminals drug children, rob children out of their innocence, subject them to violence and death and you call them "subjects of god", who are carrying god's commandments?

 

Do you really believe what you write or you are just looking to get a rise out of people?

[Nur]

Lazie G.

 

My Dear Sister,

 

Allah SWT says in Quraan:

 

"O you who believe, if a FAASIQ brings you some news, verify it, so that you may not accuse a group, thereby committing libel, without being aware (of your sin)"

 

Hafs Ibn Assem, Radiyallahu Canhu, said " The Messenger SAWS , may peace be upon him, said "Its sufficient for a person to lie (Be a liar) , the he/she tells everything he/she hears (without verifying authenticity, sources, and their motivation) Reported by Muslim

 

 

You have made many unfounded claims against the Shabab, claims that are right out of the mainstream media box, usually made by those who oppose the Shabab's mission to make Somalia a truly free nation that submits to Allah only and not to foreign demands. Your perceptions have been seriously compromised by the Western Media regurgitating lies after lies, As well as claims by Atheists like Raamsade and his ilk, Ethiopia and those who have declared open enmity on Islam and his Messenger SAWS and who are actively engaged in killing innocent Muslims worldwide under the pretext of fighting Islam aka "terrorism" a moving goal post to apply on anything about Islam they don't like.

 

If you share the vision of how Islam should be with US, EU, Ethiopia, Uganda, Burundi, corrupt TFG officials, and Raamsade and the main stream media, then what you say is understandable, if not, then you need to follow the above verse and Hadeeth to do little homework and investigate background of the conflict, its drivers, its players behind the curtain, the dummies that are being handled by the foreign entities to do the dirty work etc.

 

Its Ironic that you have used the word Moriyans describing the Shababul Mujahidun movement. For your information, these kids take credit driving the CIA sponsored Moriyans who have terrorized Somalia for twenty years out of Mogadishu, who are now reconditioned as statesmen represented in the current TFG government that controls one square kilometer known as Villa Somalia surrounded by freedom fighters willing to die for your freedom and not for money like the Moriyans in the TFG.

 

The word foreign does not apply to a Muslim in another Muslim country as much as it does not apply to a french woman in an EU country like Italy. But, a convert Muslim women who is born in France is foreign in France since she is not allowed to practice her faith to the fullest in her birth place.

 

To get things in perspective my dear sister. The real foreigners in Somalia are the Ugandans and the Burundians, and all of the uninvited intruders who camouflage themselves as NGO, who do not have the best interest of Somalia in their heart but are mainly driven by quick financial gain.

 

 

Nur

[Maaddeey]

Shaykhanaa Nur, Ilaahay ha kugu abaal mariyo Khayr fara badan Addun & Aakhiro, Adigoo kalena Alle ha badiyo.

[burahadeer]

Shabab--keep on fighting & fighting & fighting & fighting till you destroy ur slvs & the innocent around you.They been running around pockets from johar to kismayo(few regions exhausted by 20yrs of constant war & devoid of population---some of the people ran to kenya,while the rest went to other stable regions up north).They only guard the grave yards left behind.

[Nur]

Walaal, Maaddey,

 

Amin, Allaha ii aqbalo ducadaada iyo tan inta kheyr iyo jeceyl Allah iigu soo duceeya, adigana Malaaigtu wexey ku leedahay, wa lakal mithl. intaad iigu duceysay iyo in ka badan Allaha ku siiyo, kaana yeelo, kuwa Alle agtiisa ay u hor martay wanaag, oo shanqadha iyo urka naarta laga fogeeyay oo lagu sugay meeshey naftooda jeceshahay. Kuwa cabsida ugu weyn ee qiyaamaha aan la tiiraanyoonin, ooy malaaigtu soo dhaweyso ayadoo leh [ maanta waa maalinkiinnii la idiin ballan qaadi jiray ]. Kuna bishaareyso in dhulka ay dhaxli doonaan addoonta Alle ee wanaagsan, taasoo ah wargelin la gaadhsiiyo kuwa cibaadada badan.

 

 

Nur

[LayZie G.]

NUR:

 

For once make me a promise that you will not discuss "main stream media", "United States of America", "puppet regime" or anything else but your m**ryaan boys aka Al shabaab long enough to get some answers from you.

 

Lets take outsiders out of the discussion. For once, let us discuss this problem among ourselves and recognize this as a Somali problem.

 

Let us call the shabaab bosses for who they really are, foreigners.

 

My first question to you is, who is controlling the deadly militant organization? Who funds them?

 

According to them, their orders are sent from Afghanistan, therefore they are not carrying Allah's commandments as you suggested earlier.

 

If this is to be true and if someone like Abu Mansuur uu nin afghani uu caabudo, how can you call him a Muslim? Nin nin caabudaayo is worse than a gaal, soo maaha?

 

Lets assume that all news is controlled by your friends from the United States and in fact they are filtering the news and poisioning our minds with filth, what about you?

 

Do you have a satellite phone, which puts you in direct communication with the shabaabs?

 

Unless ofcourse you are getting your news from the very same sources you accuse me of reading?

 

I'm not selective with my news, I read various news wires from wide variety of sources. I do this because I know humans are the ones doing the reporting and naturally human beings are biased, which means I'm naturally a skeptic.

 

For example, if five news wires all say shabaabs were responsible for this weekends death, close to 50 people dead, we have to atleast believe that there is some truth to that, whether shabaabs deny it or not.

 

Truly, if they are carrying Allah's commandments, why do they lose more human life under their watch than the so called 'enemy'?

 

Why do they provoke attacks from populated areas knowing full well the so called 'enemy' would retaliate?

 

Some things are not adding up.

 

If these shabaabs are under the assumption that secular state is evil and Islamic State is the way forward, why don't they put their guns down, agree to a treaty, which will follow up with elections and let us take a referendum vote on the constitution. In short, why can't they make their point clear without the violence and bloodshed? Why do I have to hear another 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 human lives are lost on a daily, weekly basis?

 

Answer me as soon as you can as I'm forgetful and will not have a chance to ask the many more questions that I have for you now about the shabaabs. For now this will do.

 

 

PS: You are naive if you think your boys are in this war out of the goodness of their heart. Besides wanting power, money is the second most driving force. Everyone wants something, even those that maim and kill in Allah's name, including the veiled ones.

[Nur]

Dear Lazie G

 

You Write: "For once make me a promise that you will not discuss "main stream media", "United States of America", "puppet regime" or anything else but your m**ryaan boys aka Al shabaab long enough to get some answers from you."......For once, let us discuss this problem among ourselves and recognize this as a Somali problem.

 

 

....And then you write: Let us call the shabaab bosses for who they really are, foreigners. ... their orders are sent from Afghanistan

 

You violated your own First rule of engagement, by mentioning foreigners, the Afghans!

 

 

You write: If this is to be true and if someone like Abu Mansuur uu nin afghani uu caabudo, how can you call him a Muslim? Nin nin caabudaayo is worse than a gaal, soo maaha?

 

You can't be serious yaa ghaaliyah! I doubt your sincerity at this point, ama ma taaqaanid cibaadada macneheeda, ama waxaadan oqoonin Shabaabka. Cibaadada macneheda waa jeceyl iyo cabsi wada socda oo laga sara mariyo wax walba. Shabaabka, Allah oo qudha ayey sheegteen iney qaddariyaan, hadaba haddey jirt qolo jecel waxaan Allah aheyn, ama ka cabsata, waa kuwa ka soo hor jeeda, yaa ghaaliyah!

 

If orders make someone gaalo, then what about the TFG? whose orders they obey yaa ghaaliyah?

 

You write:

 

I'm not selective with my news

 

C'mon sis, you are very selective, even if you try hard, you can't hide, don't tell me you can't find a single good thing to say about the Shabaab! after reading all of the news media, besides, here is a quote on Islam page that you have not read:

 

"In 1983 the principal global media was owned by 50 corporations, most of them American. In 2002 this had fallen to just 9 corporations. Today it is probably about 5. Rupert Murdoch has predicted that there will be just three global media giants, and his company will be one of them" ..... John Pilger 2007

 

 

You write:

 

Why do they provoke attacks from populated areas knowing full well the so called 'enemy' would retaliate?

 

Let us say, you are a big family, and you had family feud, you are on one side of the fight and you won the fight, the other side ran away and brought in the Warsames next door to be on their side, together they vow to make you a slave and they failed repeatedly after trying everything they know. Will you then negotiate with them while the Warsames who are there for their protection only, are still in your house?

 

 

You write:

 

"If these shabaabs are under the assumption that secular state is evil and Islamic State is the way forward" The Shabab are not under assumption! they have an unwavering belief in Allah and Islam, and any person who doubts that Islam is not better than secularism, is simply not A Muslim. Therefore, aren't you of the same belief like the Shabab that Islam is better than Secularism?

 

You write:

 

why don't they put their guns down

 

Because the Ugandans and Burundian mercenaries are still in Somalia with a lot of guns! besides, the right to bear arms is an Islamic obligation, Allah says in Holy Quraan "Wadduu low taghfuluuna can aslixatakum wa amticatikum fa yamiiluuna calaykum maylatan waaxidatan " meaning; they wish that you put down your weapons and supplies, so that they can ambush you at once!, actually not carrying your weapon is Haram in Islam when hostilities exist, which is the same right the American constitution gives to its citizens. The right to bear arms to protect your property, life and people is fundamental human right, manhood is more than having two balls! don't you agree?

 

You write:

 

(why don't they) agree to a treaty, which will follow up with elections and let us take a referendum vote on the constitution.

 

How can you make a treaty when you are under occupation?

 

 

You Write:

 

In short, why can't they make their point clear without the violence and bloodshed?

 

They did, its the Ugandans and Burundian mercenaries who can't make theirs clear and shoot to all directions as collective punishment to civilians whenever the Shabab freedom fighters attacks their barracks.

 

 

You write:

 

Why do I have to hear another 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 human lives are lost on a daily, weekly basis?

 

Because some Somalis are supporting the Ugandans and Burundian mercenaries.

 

You write:

 

PS: You are naive if you think your boys are in this war out of the goodness of their heart.

 

These are not my boys yaa ghaaliya, they are the boys of their parents. Are you suggesting that you are so sophisticated that you have a window to view their hearts and intentions? you must be kiddin!

 

You write:

 

Besides wanting power, money is the second most driving force. Everyone wants something, even those that maim and kill in Allah's name, including the veiled ones.

 

You are right yaa ghaaliya, but the order of getting the wealth is different. The Shabab are paying the price now and seeking their permanent wealth in the next life, while their adversaries are getting paid now by their paymasters, seeking this life's glitter and are oblivious of the permanent price they will pay in the next life for their evil.

 

 

Nur

[LayZie G.]

Nur, let us start from the bottom and work our way up, shall we?

 

You said the following:

You are right yaa ghaaliya, but the order of getting the wealth is different. The Shabab are paying the price now and seeking their permanent wealth in the next life, while their adversaries are getting paid now by their paymasters, seeking this life's glitter and are oblivious of the permanent price they will pay in the next life for their evil.

You do not know that nor can you prove any of it, so why don't we agree to disagree about the intent of these men?

 

Marka kale, yaa Nur, you and I are not that far apart on most issues that concern the country and the people, especially my opinion of the current administration led by his honorable Sharif Sheikh Ahmed.

 

It was not long ago(exactly 6 months ago) that I called for his resignation while the rest of his supporters were still deeply intoxicated by his charm and larger than life personality.

 

Don't get me wrong, I adore Sharif, I still feel the same way I felt about him when he was with the ICU. I too believe he is a good muslim as others do, a very compassionate man. However, I feel that he is a very weak leader and not as decisive as I believed him to be. I was wrong to think Sharif can bring us closer to national reconciliation and deliver security. Above all, I'm disappointed with the entire TFG body. I do admit that corruption existed long before Sharif took his seat in Villa Somalia and I believe corruption will continue to exist long after he leaves. With that said, I hold utter contempt for both the enemy as much as I do for Sharif and his administration.

 

At this point in the game, they are equally at fault and the loss of human life is blamed on both camps.(meaning those that are fighting the administration and the administration of Sharif)

 

If asked today, Layzie, which of the two camps would you put your support behind, shabaab or the Brundi let TFG? I will always side with the federal system, in this case, semi-democratically led administration with the support of self-elected parliament, even if I feel its leader is incompetent when it comes to having a strategy in dealing with the opposition, whether it is leading a well planned surge to recapture areas previously held by the government or working tiresly to reach to the other parties involved in other to reach a peace agreement.

 

Well now, you are probably scratching your head and saying, how can you criticize me for supporting shabaab with all their flaws when you are ready to cheer on Brundi let administration of Sharif?

 

Simple, I don't want anarchy, I want my country back(sounding like a teabagger) and if it means getting help from Brundi forces or Ugandas or Nigerians tomorrow or whoever is willing to lend a hand to this deficient administration and if thats what I must do, so be it, I am ready.

 

Matter of fact, I want Melez(now that he is elected for another term) to aid the administration and help them arm themselves again by sending troops to clean up Mogadishu. (when the axmaaro were present, we didnt have suicide bombers roaming the city freely)

 

I want the crimes against civilians stopped, so much so that I'm willing to embrace and accept the help of our african brothers, after all, they are signing up for a job that could kill them, so why should I object?

 

Why do you object to the presence of Brundis but not afghans and the pakis with their foul smell blowing themselves up, taking 10, 20, 30 of our own at a time?

 

As for the debate over Islam and Secularism, my personal view on this is that religion should be separate from the state. At the same time, I believe that in the spirit of compromise, we could adopt some form of Islamic Law in order to stand as a legal authority, granted that the federal government will have the final authority. I believe that its the faith of the provinces to decide whether or not they should produce Islamic forum of governance and its respective governors should sign off on it, granted that lower house system of parliament in each province will decide the faith of such matters and should not be a federal jurisdiction, unless otherwise required to intervene in capital cases..

 

For this reason, its agreeable by some that compromise on this issue is something that can further be worked on once security is established.

 

As far as your question about which is better, "secularism or Islam" is inconceivable, waayo, Islam is a religion and it can in no way be compared to a concept such as Secularism. I'm baffled by the uncertainty in your query yaa Nur.

 

 

...and as far as your analogy about the warsame's go, when you said

Let us say, you are a big family, and you had family feud, you are on one side of the fight and you won the fight, the other side ran away and brought in the Warsames next door to be on their side, together they vow to make you a slave and they failed repeatedly after trying everything they know. Will you then negotiate with them while the Warsames who are there for their protection only, are still in your house?

Surrah 4, verse 45 says it best:

 

And Allah is most knowing of your enemies; and sufficient is Allah as an ally, and sufficient is Allah as a helper.

Leave Allah to the so called 'enemy' and put your trust in Allah. Allah will punish the evil doers and reward the faithfuls, including the so called "slaves" that you are jittery about.

 

 

In short, my response is that I would call for both the neighbours and the Warsames in one venue and give each party an opportunity to air his/her grievances. Either that or watch over your shoulder for some time to come, which is not wise choice, atleast its not a choice I will make.

 

As for the guns and the refusal to put the arms down and agree to a cease fire in order to spare God's subjects is both Un-Islamic and abhorrent.

 

When the shabaabs have maimed, killed innocent bystanders, robbed women and children of their dignity, left them homeless and with ailing children to look after, you have left nothing for these civilians, not one shred of dignity and if you dont think thats worth a cease fire then you and I are further apart than I can care to admit and for that, I was wrong about you or was I?

 

I urge you brother Nur to reevaluate your position. Waa uun talo ya Nur.

 

As for the wire news, you and I probably read the same news wire, the difference is you do not consider the evidence and you are driven by emotion, which is understandable.

 

Religion wars have been fought time in and time out. They were always provoked by one event or another. Some wars were fierce, some ended in bloody massacres but the end did not justify the means.

 

In short, a war waged by few anarchists in the name of religion always invokes religion sentiments, PR about holly war is not only persuasive but effective than a war waged in the name of democracy, nationalism etc, which is why in part your homeboys have been successful, economically speaking. There are still patrons out there who are willing to see this through to the bloody end and they dont care how much money they lose.

 

Today we know that there is nothing more patriotic to Muslims than a holly war, its a testament to the tink tank Jihadi groups and their PR driven campaigns, which is why contempt is felt by some Muslims all over the globe over the materials that are written, drawn about the Prophet (PBUH). A cartoonist can cash in on the work of the tink tank jihadi groups and we wake up and wonder how long we were in an induced coma?

 

In summary, you are saying, "we will not put our arms down and agree to a cease-fire" because the so called "ugandan mercenaries" will kill us. You are saying" we will not stop throwing rockets from populated areas because we are justified in our PR propaganda".

 

Hadda meesha maxaa kale oo yaalo aan aniga ka hadlo majirto aan umalaeynaa? You dont want peace, dal and dawladnimo because you dont want cease fire on the basis that the violence against civilians is justified because shabaabs want to shed more innocent blood in the name of religion and defense, soo adiga iyo yahuuda have more in common because they too believe in raiding vessels on international waters in the name of defense.

 

Are you then not saying I was right all along and you are living up to your campaign promise of total destruction? (or atleast your boys are?)

 

 

All in all, I'm willing to look at this from an objective point of view if you are willing and able to do the same, waayo arms ma dhigeyno is not an answer nor is quoting verses to justify the bloodshed. Malagaa yeelin ya Nur.

 

Inta kalena, just because you dont agree with certain news outlets who post opinion pieces, regardless of the ownership of the content does not mean that they are less reliable than say, Al jazeera or Al Arabiya or any of those middle east media outlets.

 

For example, when the sunday raid of the flotilla occurred, the Al Jazeera correspondents that were inside the raided vessel reported to have not seen any weapons on board, nor did they acknowledge the premeditated actions of the hooligans inside the vessel waiting for the commandos on board the flotilla on sunday.(before you start accusing me of siding with the state of Israel, I will say what I said before, I think the raid was illegal and the force was excessive and Israel had no right to raid the aid vessel on international water and take the passengers on board on custody. I say this for the obvious reason, the brutal act occurred on international waters, however much the Israelis cry "defense")

 

To sum up, the correspondents were biased and gave eye witness testimony that was one sided when they should have been held on the same standards as say, any of the journalists and mainstream media you complain about.