Conférence de M'Bagathi, c’est fini

[LANDER]

I find it Ironic that these somali leaders from Djibouti very much like the leaders they are trying to help in the peace conference, always blame their failures on other people. The peace conference between somalis is dead and who's fault is it? could it be the somalis themselves? including the reer djibouti who had a hand in it? of course not, we shall blame the Kenyans!!!....quite humourous I find. But even worst is they have the audacity to call their retreat from the process a quote "brave move on the part of the republic of Djibouti" so now its brave to take the easy way out?

 

http://www.lanation.dj/news/2003/ln88/national9.htm

 

Processus de réconciliation inter-somalienne

 

Conférence de M'Bagathi, c’est fini

 

La République de Djibouti qui s'est battue au niveau diplomatique pour la survie de ces pourparlers, s'est vue dans l'obligation d'annoncer ce décès clinique que certains projetaient de dissimuler aux yeux du monde entier.

 

Tant pis pour tous ces chefs de factions somaliennes qui se sentiront frustrés parce que l'herbe leur a été coupée sous les pieds.

 

A maintes reprises, la République de Djibouti a tenté d'attirer l'attention de la communauté internationale sur les déviations de ce processus de ses principaux objectifs : réconcilier toutes les parties somaliennes et procéder à la formation d'un gouvernement largement représentatif.

 

Loin d'aller vers le but qui lui a été assignée la conférence s'en est complètement détournée. Pire, elle a pris le chemin opposé au point de déboucher sur l'exclusion d'un grand nombre de groupes somaliens.

 

Le comble, c'est la conduite adoptée par le président du Comité Technique des pays frontaliers de la Somalie, le kenyan Bethwel Kiplagat. Ce diplomate de carrière, loin d’être un virtuose, a tout fait pour semer la zizanie entre les somaliens participant à la conférence de Nairobi.

 

Un adage populaire Somali affirme : si un groupe d'hommes ne parvient pas à tirer une vache de la vase, c'est que parmi eux, il y a sûrement quelqu'un qui pousse dans le sens inverse.

 

Daniel Arap Moï, l'ex-président du Kenya et initiateur de la conférence de paix inter somalienne, a récemment confirmé cet adage en révelant à quel point la médiation entreprise était viciée.

 

Autrement dit, le processus de paix inter-somalien avait peu de chance d'aboutir: il était déjà secrètement condamné à mort par ses propres promoteurs.

 

Sabotage, torpillage, la conférence de M’Bagathi, portait en elle les germes, d’une grave discorde. Djibouti a dit non. En se retirant définitivement du Comité technique, la République de Djibouti a adopté une position courageuse.

[Gabbal]

I gather you are able to read french? But what about those of us who don't.

[Intel]

me speak no french

[OG_Girl]

Salaam HornAfique and rokko i will try to translate but don't blame me any mistakes ...lol

 

here is translation in English:

 

Process of reconciliation inter-somalienne Conférence of Me Bagathi, finished the Republic of Djibouti which fought at the diplomatic level for the survival of these talks, was seen in the obligation to announce this clinical death that some projected to dissimulate with the eyes of the whole world. So many worse for all these heads factions somaliennes which will feel frustrated because the grass their was cut under the feet. With many recoveries, the Republic of Djibouti tried to draw the attention of the international community to the deviations of this process of its principal objectives: to reconcile all the somaliennes parts and to carry out the formation of a largely representative government. Far from going towards the goal which to him was assigned the conference is completely diverted by it. Worse, it took the way opposed to the point to lead to the exclusion of a great number of somaliens groups. The roof, it is the control adopted by the president of the Technical Committee of the frontier countries of Somalia, the kenyan Bethwel Kiplagat. This diplomat of career, far dêtre a virtuoso, did everything to sow zizanie between the somaliens taking part in the conference of Nairobi. A popular proverb Somali affirms: if a group of men does not manage to draw a cow from the mud, it is that among them, there is surely somebody who pushes in the opposite direction. Daniel Arap Moï, the former president of Kenya and initiator of the conference of peace inter somalienne, recently confirmed this proverb while révelant at which point the mediation undertaken was vitiated. In other words, the process of peace inter-somalien had little chance to succeed: it already secretly was condemned to died by its own promoters. Sabotage, torpedoing, the conference of M?Bagathi, carried in it the germs, d?une serious discord. Djibouti said not. By withdrawing technical Committee definitively, the Republic of Djibouti adopted a courageous position.

 

Damn how much i hate long articals , Lander wallalo u could summerize and tell us the important points

[Liqaye]

Lander what is your point, djibouti took a political descion not to support another mass-array of warlords horse trading and call it a peace confrence, it chose not to support a process that is frustrating the claims of somali civil society.

And its withdrawal is a blow to a process that was drawing some legitimacy from djibouti's continued participation, at least now it is obvious to all that care to see that any constiution and settlement drawn up under the aegis of either kenya or ethiopia (and in this case both) will never succeed.

And they did it in french.so what.

 

 

Hey but it is good to know some french speakers on the forum OG_Girl will you ever cease to suprise

[LANDER]

OG_girl

once again thanks for the translation

 

Liqaaye

I had already made my point above, if you would just schrool to the begin of my previous posting. But I will get more to the point, the reer Djibouti diplomats are always trying to take credit for bringing together these so-called peace conferences in the hopes that if their is a peace that derives from them, they will take full credit for bringing it about, but when they fail, as they always have to the present, they always run and try to save face. I don't think they are really interested in making the valient efforts and diplomatic compromises it takes to bring about such a peace, they just want to be their and be recognized for it in case it happens.

[Liqaye]

the reer Djibouti diplomats are always trying to take credit for bringing together these so-called peace conferences

They do not need to TRY to take credit they have sponserd not only in their own country three confrences, so were does the trying come in?

 

in the hopes that if their is a peace that derives from them, they will take full credit for bringing it about

Hehehe please do not tell me that you are being naive this is one of the first reasons a country hosts a peace summit..not so...?

 

but when they fail, as they always have to the present, they always run and try to save face.

Firstly that they fail is the fault of somalis, and the part about saving face is your own very subjective view.

 

I don't think they are really interested in making the valient efforts and diplomatic compromises it takes to bring about such a peace, they just want to be their and be recognized for it in case it happens.

djibouti is a facilitator the people that are expected to make "valiant efforts" are somalis them selves and what does diplomatic comprimises have to do with it, djibouti is not a warring faction neither is it involved in somali politics to the extent that ethiopia is.

 

Lander correct me if i am wrong but the only reason that you have chosen to pick on little ol labba-hunno djibouti is that all the peace talks that it has sponserd and the ones it will sponser is based on the dictum of a somalia united.

If on the other hand you said that this is the major reason why the peace talks have faled , then at least it would have been a more ...honest argument.

 

In the words of the ol time poets

kalasaar ruun iyo been

[Gabbal]

quote:

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but when they fail, as they always have to the present, they always run and try to save face.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Firstly that they fail is the fault of somalis, and the part about saving face is your own very subjective view.

 

 

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think they are really interested in making the valient efforts and diplomatic compromises it takes to bring about such a peace, they just want to be their and be recognized for it in case it happens.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

djibouti is a facilitator the people that are expected to make "valiant efforts" are somalis them selves and what does diplomatic comprimises have to do with it, djibouti is not a warring faction neither is it involved in somali politics to the extent that ethiopia is.

 

Lander correct me if i am wrong but the only reason that you have chosen to pick on little ol labba-hunno djibouti is that all the peace talks that it has sponserd and the ones it will sponser is based on the dictum of a somalia united.

If on the other hand you said that this is the major reason why the peace talks have faled , then at least it would have been a more ...honest argument.

 

In the words of the ol time poets

kalasaar ruun iyo been

Another asset to Somaliweyne. And an energetic one too. :cool:

[General Duke]

A tad bit premature my old friends.

 

Djabouti is a small insignificant city state run by a heriditry clan despot who has no clue how to govern a state and who's days of meddling in Somali politics are over, but hey thats my opinion.

 

How ever I agree that if the conference fails then its the fault of Somali's and not no nations. Again it gets tiring when certain people become holier than though about warlords and civil societies and what not. We are a nation with nothing and we should be thinking hard how to build this state by any means necessary.

 

Djabouti is back after all so there you go LOL

[Liqaye]

Smith n western, I suppose we should all emulate the Punk of Puntland and destroy somalia by proxy for the ethiopians.?

 

:rolleyes: i think not.

[General Duke]

Liqiye, you can think what you like

 

By the way how are you saving Somalia?

Its like blame others for our failures, blame Abdullahi Yusuf for what ever scenario that happens in Mogadishu, the clan blood lettings the occupations and murders and political weakness of Abdiqasin blame it all on the PUNK from Puntland. LOL

 

It seems like the Somali peace is less important to you than the ambitions of individual leaders.

 

Brother Puntland is a Somali state and it is not going any where. If this is what bothers you then tough. But I hope that Somalia can find a central government no matter which PUNK becomes the eventual leader.

 

 

This post was about the end or demise of the conference and contrary to what that french article and some hoped the conference did not end it was stalled because some people want to save their careers others their secessionist dreams, but recent news has favoured those like myself who have supported the peace process.

[Liqaye]

Its like blame others for our failures, blame Abdullahi Yusuf for what ever scenario that happens in Mogadishu, the clan blood lettings the occupations and murders and political weakness of Abdiqasin blame it all on the PUNK from Puntland. LOL

Brother Smith, you have a very bad habit of deflecting any criticism towards abdilahi yusuf by accusing every body who recognizes him for what he is, that is a murder and the archetypal warlord, of being pro-salad or pro-mogadishu.

 

Secondly i Blame him for failing as a leader from 1978 to the present, I blame him for stifling free-speech and the will of the people of puntland.

And I blame him, and accuse him of being an ethiopian puppet, and for him to have allowed 1 soldier let alone an entire division of ethiopian soldiers on the soil of the motherland disqualyfies him in the eyes of every right thinking somali nationalist and somali who hopes for the rule of justice in any future somalia.

 

It seems like the Somali peace is less important to you than the ambitions of individual leaders

Again you assume that I support any of these murderers, I as the majiority of somalis had high hopes for the TNG goverment that the goverment failed, should be blamed on their ineptitude rather than on our patriotism.

 

Brother Puntland is a Somali state and it is not going any where. If this is what bothers you then tough. But I hope that Somalia can find a central government no matter which PUNK becomes the eventual leader

it is very intreasting to see the way your admmitedly cunning mind works but I will give you and others that think like you a little advice.

Puntland is wonderfull as an entity both social and political, but slithering and sliding in your garden of eden is the notion, the idea that puntland and the person of ina yusuf are inextribicaly linked, if that is the case, then when yusuf falls puntland as you envisage it will fall as well.

You are doing more damage to it than any anti-puntland force could ever do.

 

"No matter what punk becomes the leader".

 

I am sure i know what punk YOU are hoping for. LOL.

 

Not in a million years will a mass murderer, arch-qabilist and collaborater like yusuf even pass wind in villa somalia again.

 

Beace iyo caano geel.

[General Duke]

LIQIY

 

I like the neo nationalist crowed of Somalia today people who where once the either Afweyne or clan diehards are now Somali nationalists. This crowed is against everything, Somaliland, Puntland, peace processes that doesn’t go their way. To them any new idea is Ethiopian any new initiative is by warlords who now have contracted HIV.

 

To them moral and political arguments are mixed and myths perpetrated for their own agendas are “truth”. This cowed deals with absolutes, always, never and will are there basic mantra.

 

LIQIYE, like few other neo nationalist up in this forum, would tell us the truth about an individual but provide little evidence. I will defend Abdullahi Yusuf against the neo nationalist truth. Was it Abdullahi who bombed Hargaysa? Or destroyed Mogadishu or took part in the clan cleanisng of Mogadishu and parts of the south? The truth is no, yet Abdiqasin, Morgan Barre Hirale, Dahir Riyale Kahin, Osman Ato Omar Jess took part in this orgy, as you know Abdullahi was not part of this war.

Yet he is portrait as the greatest warlord ever, if he did not take part in the worst civil war battles how he is the worst warlord?

 

Or have the greatest civil war battles taken place in PUNTLAND?

 

Another point to stress to neo nationalist is this, Abdullahi as a Somali officer fought in 1964 Somali Ethiopia war and won honours, he was against the coup of the officer Barre and was improsned, who was the nationalist Afwene or Abdullahi?

 

He served in the 1978 campaign against Ethiopia and all Somali officers agree that even in this war he played a key role and served his country well. However to neo nationalist this service doesn’t matter because he later fought Afweyne, this then must mean Afweyne was a just and democratic leader.

 

Again the “truth” to the neo nats is that Abdullahi fought Afweyne their man, or Jmac Cali Jamac their man or Abdiqasin their man or Ayeed their man. Or he stood in front of Somaland and then he is the warlord the Punk the man with the Indian liver.

 

I think further studies should be done on this phenomenon of the neo Somali nationalist.

[Liqaye]

I like the neo nationalist crowed of Somalia

hehehe when did we start making up words neo-nationalist?? the very least you could have done is explain what you mean when you say that I mean i feel vaguely put down; but the feeling passed quickly enough.

 

who where once the either Afweyne or clan diehards are now Somali nationalists.

Do you see how your mind is trying to get a hold on my qabil!! first you take a pot shot at mogadishu warlords and when i take that in my stride you accuse me of being related to Siyad sorry but if we are talkin blood lines you are closer to him than i could ever hope to be.

 

 

To them any new idea is Ethiopian any new initiative is by warlords who now have contracted HIV.

.

 

This mental flip flop's you are doing are unnecessary.

I dont know about ethiopian intiatives but i do know that the reason why ina yusuf is president isku sheeg in puntland is by the armed intervention of ethiopian forces on behalf and in aid of qabilist forces in puntland aiming to frustrate the express whishes of puntlanders for Jamac.

Ergo if yusuf has been a beast in puntland then all you are propsing under all your bulletins and articles. is the extension of ina yusufs beastiality to all of somalia. god forbid.

 

To them moral and political arguments are mixed and myths perpetrated for their own agendas are “truth”. This cowed deals with absolutes, always, never and will are there basic mantra

now brother what you are doing is flailing at the wind. you believe that ina yusuf is a good thing for somalia i believe based on his record and his speeches that he is the furthest thing from that.

This is my truth.

 

I will defend Abdullahi Yusuf against the neo nationalist truth. Was it Abdullahi who bombed Hargaysa? Or destroyed Mogadishu or took part in the clan cleanisng of Mogadishu and parts of the south? The truth is no, yet Abdiqasin, Morgan Barre Hirale, Dahir Riyale Kahin, Osman Ato Omar Jess took part in this orgy, as you know Abdullahi was not part of this war.

Was it abdullahi who exterminated the residents of hawd.

The men of clans who were not from his in the hawd of somalia?

The termite in the somali firmament?

Yes

okay lets move on. Again i ask you to stop making the assumption that because i recognize ina yusuf for the killer that he is...i am somehow oblivious to the crimes of the other men you have named ....although it is a cowardly and moraly bankrupt accusation to make at the very least you include Yusufs name in the roll call of infamy instead of trying to convince us of his being the bearer of all good things.

 

Yet he is portrait as the greatest warlord ever, if he did not take part in the worst civil war battles how he is the worst warlord?

AH so you agree he is a warlord and use the fundamentally most akward argument to excuse him.

I tell you what we "neo-nationalist" want...freedom from the warlords and their cheerleaders.

 

Another point to stress to neo nationalist is this, Abdullahi as a Somali officer fought in 1964 Somali Ethiopia war and won honours, he was against the coup of the officer Barre and was improsned, who was the nationalist Afwene or Abdullahi?

So did other unsung heroes who fought in the border incident you make seem like a prelude to world war 3.

why should we assume that yusuf was a nationalist to be against the coup of siyaad. He could have been a coward at the last moment. He might have wanted the rich pickings of a conquered state for his illustrious clan rather than this up-starts Afweynes.Also many staunch nationalists were delirious with delight when the military (Xoga dalka ) took over and swept away the corrupt civilan goverment can they be accused in hindsight of not being nationalist?

Finally even assuming he was a nationalist in 1964 he spent the last 30 years wiping out his moment of conscience.

 

However to neo nationalist this service doesn’t matter because he later fought Afweyne,

He attempted a coup against afweyne...in his own personal intreasts.

He failed and plunged his clan. A clan i might add that would have been wholly satisfied with being another M in the MOD of the goverment in to armed confontration with the goverment.

Not for democracy

Or human rights

But for Kursi ga

And more so he set a precedent in somali history of using ethiopian arms and aid to dismember our motherland.

A policy i can say he has fOLLOWED CONSISENTLY till today.

 

 

Again the “truth” to the neo nats is that Abdullahi fought Afweyne their man, or Jmac Cali Jamac their man or Abdiqasin their man or Ayeed their man. Or he stood in front of Somaland and then he is the warlord the Punk the man with the Indian liver.

The above paragraph is called hysteria. notice how the man excuses the democraticaly appointed Jamacs claim to leadership for Yusuf.

 

Smith N western you are not pro-puntland. Puntland as an entity is just a vehicle for YOUR mans assecion of the presidency.

You sir are Pro-yusuf.

Should I say you are a qabilist or should i turn the other cheek like some brothers on the forum do and give you the benefit of the doubt??

No i aint that type.

 

 

I think further studies should be done on this phenomenon of the neo Somali nationalist.

I agree since this is the first time i have heard it. And you seem to like it so much you have used it several times in your post.

 

DONT USE WHAT LAW ABIDING SOMALIS IN PUNTLAND ARE DOING FOR THEMSELVES AS A FIG LEAF FOR YOUR MURDERER

[General Duke]

LIQAYE,

 

The neo-nationalist Somali is a simple new term which perfectly reflects many aspiring would be new Somali nationalist, for similarities check out neo conservative, neo-Nazi etc. It shouldn’t have taken to much brain power to figure out.

 

On the point about clan, Afweyne was not a clan but a man who represented a regime the post was not about the clan, however you seem eager to get into clan politics hence the mentioning of the mythical alliance of MOD which some scholars and would be political analysts mention to explain the Afweyne regime. However in your wisdom as a neo nationalist you go further by explaining to us that you know the thinking of a whole clan

“ A clan i might add that would have been wholly satisfied with being another M in the MOD of the government in to armed “ My dear friend was there a poll or surveys done to ask the above clan what their feelings was on being another M in the MOD?

 

Funny how all these people present assumptions and hearsay as truth and believe the rumours people spread. What facts have you presented apart from rearranging your various prejudices?

 

On the issue of legitimacy of the leadership of Puntland, as an expert you tell us with such belief and conviction that Jamac Cali was the rightfull leader and Abdullahi is not and he was elected by the people, what people? 40 issims extended Abdullahi’s term 30 elected Jamac, so dear nationalist which Issims should we follow? That’s what they call a dispute which was settled as you know not by the mere act of force but by the peace treaty of General Cade Musa and the rest as you know is history.

 

Me supporting Abdullahi is clear, he is Puntlands president no dispute, maybe where your from they don’t call it Puntland even.

 

Liqiye as a neo nationalist apart from insults and few clanistic quotes from history you bring little else to the table. I myself believe in Somali unity through devolution of power from the centre to the states. Puntland works and other Somali’s should emulate the state and create other states. I am optimistic about the peace process in Kenya and while its vision is not 100% perfect its better than what we have now.

 

But alas neo Somali nationalist have far too much rhetoric and no substance, kind of like Abdiqasin, all day he talks about Somali unity, the flag, Islam all the chants in the world but the man presents few practical ways of disarming the bandits outside his own house.

Alas poor people stay poor the rest get rich on Arab Zakah donations.