Quotable Quotes

[Khalaf]

By NG:

If you have another practical way out I would be honoured to hear of it; as long as it is not wishes and dreams. Which, incidentally, even young Khalaf started to exhibit. His ideas of outside trustees is as ludicrous as BiLaaL’s one about supporting the Asmara group because they may (or may not) have a bright future

Do you have practical solutions other then critiquing everyone else and telling them they are either dreaming or suicidal? I will like to hear ur thoughts on this adeer! You’re a great critic but are you an equally great problem solver?. Lets here it!

 

My idea is not ludicrous, but a fair solution. I do believe this is what Ethiopia is planning to do, remember they have once before tried to add British Somaliland to be part of their trustship as Eritrea was. I neither believe in Dukes TFG or Bilals Alliance the game is bigger then both if u know what I mean..........nor am I dreamer as I once was in believing an islamic state can rise in this land. The ppl liberate themselves, there is no people and unity fighting for Qaranka somaliyeed as some would falsify.........and even (this is viewing from the lens of the opposition) they were to overrun the Ethiopian backed TFG, then as Che once said:

cruel leaders (or stooges) are replaced only to have new leaders turn cruel (or stooge of the great powers of the day). I don’t care who rules! A true government ruling somalia, a unified somalia is unlikely in my view, it would best if a Muslim country and not Ethiopia would take over and rule Somalia, a strong muslim state......why do u think that can’t work? Other then the obvious as Geel alluded too earlier.........the international community needs to pressure Ethiopian withdrawal and a multi national force particular muslim states to take over, why this is not being done should single something to us..... and afterwards help from international community especially the muslim countries......every clan region should be given its own autonomy with a weak central government determined in 09 after the TFG mandate. Again why this is not being done, and Ethiopia alone has been given the green light should tell us something. What exactly i am not quite sure, but just a feeling that powerful ppl would like somalia to remain in choas and a war zone.

 

By Bilal:

I think the time is right for such an approach. The miseries of the last seventeen years have brought about a unique opportunity. This opportunity comes in the form of the wide consensus, across all sections of the Somali public,

that serious steps need to be taken to stem the evil effects of tribalism.

One can safely say that tribalism has become a threat to both our social and national security just as some Western countries view terrorism as a threat to their national security.

No shiiiz nit! So the way to slove the problem is with a 1.0 tribal system with the likes of old veterns of qabil politics. Makes a lot of sense.

[Fabregas]

The point, It wouldn't make practical sense for Arab states to be sypathetic to Asmara groups cause. Perhaps this would have been the case during the case during the cold war and pan arabism era. But today is a completely different game. The Arabs would prefer a Somalia run by the T.F.G and Ethiopia as opposed to one run by Islamists and their allies. The first reason is probably have no choice anyway(wa nimaan la haysto). The second is that they(secular and monarchy)are strongly to the Salafist groups who seeks to overthrow their own regimes. They wouldn't want an example in Somalia whereby their own nationals and business man used it as another base like Afghanistan. Egypt has locked up the Muslim brotherhood and vermently opposed to Hamas takeover of Gaza. The Arab states also backed Israel and denounced Hezbollah in the Lebanon and have continued to fund the government of Abbas. Simply because they don't want a confrontation with West and more importantly they dont want these states to become an example to their states.

[QabiilDiid]

Debaters and niiqlayaalis,

 

I think the supporters of the Asmara group are working in a vacuum. Indhacadi’s nomination as a war ministry was just a make-believe. Still Sheikh Sharif is articulating the notion that he has a fighting force inside the country (today’s Somali BBC interview).

But, the suspected factor by some of us that there is no link between the insurgents in Mogadishu and the Asmara group is coming out of the closet. It has been always an underlying assumption that the Shabaab fighters are the military wing of The Alliance for the Re-Liberation of Somalia (ARS) but in the following article from Waagacusub.com (an anti Yey newsportal), presents an interview the Universal TV had with Sheikh Abu Mansuur, the former deputy of ICU Security branch, and the current speaker for Forces of Al Shabaab. The Sheikh undoubtedly ascertains in his view that there is no difference between ARS and TFG as there is no difference between “the donkey and its two lobes”. For him the two institutions are the followers of infidels and must be fought against vigorously.

 

Now, what effect does this new realities have on both ARS and TFG? The objective of the ARS is to liberate Somalia from claws of Mel Zenawi. How would they realize their goals without military operations? If they do not come up with tough combatants of their own soon to fight two fronts (against Al Shabaab and TFG), wouldn’t the players of the Somali political landscape reduce them to mere dissatisfied group who are in some mysterious ways able to use the media especially the Somali BBC as a private microphone of their own to ensure their continued employment on foreigner soil as a bargaining chip for ISAIAS Afworki in his endeavour to get the largest land mass from his foe Mele Zenawi in their border demarcation conflict?

 

It is also interesting to quote Sh. Mansuur: “We want the country to be ruled by Alle’s Book and we want to take the country over as its legitimate rulers because we want an Islamic theocracy state”…..

 

In this day and age are the Somalis ready for Islamic theocratic government?

 

Abuu Maansuur oo isku mid ku tilmaamay Isbahaysiga Casmara iyo DFKMG” Jihaadban ku jirnaa ee Muqaawimo xoreyn maaha”

 

Muqdisho 29/10/2007 Octaber Waagacusub.com

 

Afhayeenka Xoogaga Al Shabaab ee ka dagaalamaya Muqdisho Sheekha lagu magacaabo Mukhtaar Rooboow Abuu Maansuur oo markii ugu dambeysay ahaa ku xigeenka dhinaca amaanka ee golaha Maxaakiimta ayaa markii ugu horeysay qirtay hadal uu hore ugu beeniyay inuu siiyay Waagacusub kaas oo uu ku sheegay inaysan aqoonsaneyn Isbahaysiga Casmara,ayna u arkaan mid ay ku bahoobeen cilmaaniyiin iyo islaamiyiin,isagoo waliba si gaara u tilmaamay inaysan hoos tegin.

 

Abuu Maansuur oo lagu wareeystay telefishinka Caalamiga ee Universal isagoo ku sugan degaan uu qariyay oo Soomaaliya ku yaal,wuxuu isla meel dhigay Isbahaysiga dib u xoreynta Soomaaliya ee Casmara lagu dhidbay iyo Dowlada Federalka KMG ee dalka xasuuqa ka wada.

 

“ Isbahaysiga Casmara iyo DFKMG waxay rumaysan yihiin Dastuur iyo dimoqoraadiyo.waxay doonayaan inay dalka ku maamulaan,anagana kitaabka alle,sidaas daraadeed waa isku mid”ayuu yiri Abuu Maansuur oo Wariye Cabduqaadir Nadaara waydiiyay,sida Xoogaga Shabaabka ay u arkaan Isbahaysiga Casmara ee ay horboodayaan madaxdii sare ee golaha Maxaakiimta sida Sheekh Shariif,Sheekh Xasan Daahir,Sheekh Cumar Iimaan Abuubakar iyo Sheekh Cabdi Raxmaan Janaqow.

 

Wariyaha Universal oo ay la yaab ula muuqatay jawaabta Abuu Maansuur ee diidmada taagtaagana,wuxuu waydiiyay:-

 

“Hadii aad DFKMG diideen,Isbaheysigii dib u xoreynta diideen,Itoobiyaankii diideen,maxaad dooneysaan inaad shacbiga ku qancisaan”?

 

Abuu Maansuur oo u muuqday jawaabtiisa nin daad qaaday xunba cuskay ama u jawaabayay qaabkii salfudeedka ee lagu wiiqay awoodii golaha Maxaakiimta ayaa ku jawaabay:-

 

 

“ Anaga waxaan doneynaa in Kitaabka alle lagu xakumo dalka,dagaalka Xamar ka socda maaha Muqaawimo,Kacdoon iyo dib u xoreyn ee Waa Jihaad,isaga ayaana ku jirnaa”ayuu yiri Abuu Maansuur oo dhinaca kalana tilmaamay inuusan ujeedkooda dagaal ahayn sidii ay Itoobiyaanka uga saari lahaayeen dalka Soomaaliya oo kaliya balse uu yahay sidii ay Xukunka ula wareegi lahaayeen si ay ugu maamulaan Kitaabka alle.

 

Dhageeystayaal badan oo Soomaaliya ,aadna u taageersanaa dagaalka lagula jira Amxaarada iyo dowlada Maqaarsaarkaa ee Cabdulahi Yusuf ayaa mar qura dareenkooda isbedelay,waxayna hadalka Abuu Maansuur ku fasireen mid aan cilmi diineed iyo mid diblomaasiyadeed xambaarsaneyn.

 

“ Dr Cumar Iimaan Abuubakar,Sheekh Shariif Sheekh Axmed iyo Xasan Dahir Aweys ayaan ka diin badanahay miyuu shacabka Soomaaliyeed ku qancinayaa Abuu Maansuur,taas suurtagal maaha,inuu Kacdoonkii Shacabka wadeen dhalan rogo ee yiraa Jihaadbaa socdana macquul maaha,inuu Isbahaysiga dib u xoreyntana la masaalo Dowlada Amxaarada macquul maaha,sidaas daraadeed waxan qabaa inay xaalada dalka fog tahay oo ay jirto eedeynta Maxamed dheere ee uu Shabaabka Maansuur ku sheegayo dowlad diid,nidaam diid ku shaqeeynayo dano guracan”ayuu yiri Maxamed Cabdi Ciisse oo ah 61 jir Soomaaliya oo daawanayay Universal.

 

Abuu Maansuur wuxuu dhalasho ahaan ka soo jeedaa goboladda bay iyo Bakool,waxayna dowlada Mareykanka ku dartay liiska argagixisada ay baadi goobeyso ee Soomaaliya ku sugan hasse yeeshee wuxuu mar kale qirtay weerar uu hore ugu aflagaadeeyay isbahaysiga Casmara hadana afkiisa ku beeniyay,kaas oo uu markii labaad qirtay inuu sheegay.

 

Sheekh Mukhtaar Rooboow Abuu Maansuur wuxuu ka mid ahaa Masuuliyiintii Maxaakiimta ee xilli dagaal ba'an lagula jiray Itoobiyaanka u dhoofay Sacuudi Carabiya isaga iyo Yusuf Maxamed Siyaad Indhacadde oo qiil ka dhigtay inay cibaado u baxeen laakiin taageerayaasha Maxaakiimta waxa isu qaban wayday Axada ayaan ku dukan doonaa Addis Ababa iyo Cimra ayaan u cibaada tagay ,dagaalkii oo biloowday.

 

ASOJ REGISTERED VIOLATIONS ON JOURNALISTS IN SOMALIA FROM 2000 TO 2007

WaagacusubOnline@yahoo.com

[BiLaaL]

The Point, i'll go through some of the points you've raised in your last post. I think this thread has been runnning for some time and seems to have grown tired. Perhaps those interested can start a new thread and revisit issues around this thread sometime down the track.

 

On your first point, yes - I acknowledge that the Alliance for the Re-Liberation of Somalia (ARS) has welcomed diverse members (including H Aidid) but I don’t see that as a problem (not when compared to present concerns). I’ve reiterated this many times. The ARS welcomed the sort of people it did in order to show unity in the face of its enemies. Its political detractors would have loved to see it reject the likes of Aidid. They’ve would have accused it of being an exclusive Islamist Alliance (as some have). Furthermore, one has to ask himself: Isn’t it better to keep Aidid in the fold instead running the risk of your enemies using him against you? Besides, we all make mistakes. The man may have reformed.

 

The diplomats flocking to Asmara are mainly from EU countries. The Europeans never really bought the idea that there were terrorists in Somalia or that the ARS have/had connections with groups tied to terrorism. The Europeans realise that the ARS is essentially a group whose objective is to liberate its country from occupation and help it towards the path of peace and prosperity. The diplomats I speak of are such diplomats.

 

They continue to flock to Asmara because they are convinced that the ARS will, sooner or later, be seen for what it is. These EU countries simply want to wait until such time as a more cordial and sensible administration arrives at the White House. Its then that they will declare what they’ve always believed – that the TFG are a bunch of incompetent, illegimate nohopers and that the ARS (whatever flaws some may assign to it) is best placed to deliver Somalia from its troubles.

 

Originally posted by ThePoint: Stop all insurgency operations and delcare it as so, infiltrate the TFG and its bureaucracy, agitate the public against the Ethiopian occupation after a quiet period(and here you will have the Arab states on your side), start up operations again when the Ethiopians leave and take over.

This quote is a good illustration of how this thread has panned out. Infiltrate the TFG and its bureaucracy did you say? How is this feasible? Do you seriously believe that the Ethiopians are willing to allow anyone from the ARS (however ‘moderate’) to assume any kind of post within the TFG (an entity it enjoys considerable control over)? Forget a post within the TFG. Do you think that they are even willing to tolerate them as mere activists inside Somalia? This was not possible shortly after the defeat of the ICU nor is it possible now. Agitating the public against the occupation requires considerable freedom. Such freedom is just not present. You’ve seen how the Ethiopians have treated journalists in Mogadishu. Mind you, these journalists were merely reporting and not engaged in politics.

 

You're not alone in espousing the above argument. It's this kind of argument which undermines all your efforts. NG’s alleged proposals (although he is yet to table any) bear similar shortcomings. The shortcoming in your arguments is this: Let’s say, for arguments sake, that the ARS pack their bags, denounce the resistance, declare their intention to partake in the 2009 elections and head to Mogadishu (or elsewhere in the country). Do any of you seriously think that the Ethiopians are going to let them exercise any kind of free will? Will the Ethiopians allow it to conduct political rallies or say a single word against the status quo? If any one these things aren’t possible (and they most certainly aren’t), then why the all talk about the ARS not being compromising enough? Exactly with whom can it comprise with? Surely not an occupying force eager to cut off their heads. Ethiopia is there to stay and will not tolerate any dissent. This simple fact undermines all proposals contrary to what the ARS has put forth.

 

Some of you may argue that the ARS blew its chance and that the Ethiopians were willing to tolerate it earlier on. This is not so. The Ethiopians meant business from the start and were never going to allow anyone disapproving of their plans to have a say. We don’t live in a fair world. Stop being so naïve. In the face of a hardening occupation, set against a back-drop of an always quarrelling and incompetent TFG, the ARS appears to be the last vanguard aimed at saving our country from a determined enemy.

 

This reflexive and vehement 'blame Ethiopia for everything' is something that I consider foolish and self-deluding.

Skim through my posts and highlight where I’ve blamed Ethiopia ‘for everything’. Ethiopia for me is nothing more than a symptom. It is dissociated from our real disease. Tribalism. The ARS’s clear rejection of anything tribal from its political platform, coupled with its commitment to a truly sovereign Somalia, is what has spurred many to support them. Without this crucial ingredient, I doubt that I would have supported them as much as I do. This is where its biggest hope lies. This is what will ensure its success post-occupation.

 

On the question of absolutism, i don't believe that the ARS been absolutist. They’ve simply been misunderstood. For example, their unwillingness to take up posts within the TFG or to partake in the 2009 elections is ingrained in their firm belief that this is impossible while the Ethiopians remain in Somalia.

 

This unwillingness on the part of the ARS is part logic, part practical. Its not just about Ethiopian soldiers being on Somali soil but also about the feasibility of campaigning freely or of holding free and fair elections under the watchful eye of an occupier. This almost McCarthyist campaign against the ARS has to stop somewhere. It’s about time people start appreciating the logic behind some of the positions adopted by the ARS. It’s easy to howl but slightly more difficult to rationalise.

 

*Sister Dahia - The ARS have come out with policy positions on various matters, both short and long term. Here's their manifesto in Somali. The matters you’ve raised are covered. I'm sure you'll find convincing answers to the questions you have on the ARS.

[BiLaaL]

Originally posted by Khalaf:

 

By Bilal:

quote:

---

I think the time is right for such an approach. The miseries of the last seventeen years have brought about a unique opportunity. This opportunity comes in the form of the wide consensus, across all sections of the Somali public,

that serious steps need to be taken to stem the evil effects of tribalism.

One can safely say that tribalism has become a threat to both our social and national security just as some Western countries view terrorism as a threat to their national security.

No shiiiz nit! So the way to slove the problem is with a 1.0 tribal system with the likes of old veterns of qabil politics. Makes a lot of sense.

[/QB]

How about a 0.0 tribal system? Separate tribal matters from public life and certainly from politics! I know it wouldn't be such a bad idea to most Somalis. I do worry for some in this forum though.

[BiLaaL]

d/p