Quotable Quotes

[Khalaf]

Originally posted by BiLaaL: PS - The Alliance for the Re-Liberation of Somalia (ARS) is incredibly important to the liberation struggle and is a major player in the current political landscape (whether one acknowledges or not). I'm suprised that more people aren't following its fortunes. Although the group don't seem to be as media friendly or as visible as they once were, i can assure you that their efforts have not waned. Since NG and I have more or less arrived at an unpassable juncture, i would love to hear what other people think of the Alliance - critical or otherwise.

What I think of the Alliance, without going into great details this Arabic proverb comes to mind:

 

"Four things never come back --- the spoken word, the sped arrow, the past life, and the neglected opportunity."

 

 

The alliance -which itself is split, and incoherent....... but nonetheless lets call it a an alliance for argument sake, the alliance neglected their golden opportunity, when they were the main power holders for those six months over the entire south and because lack of strategy, leadership, and political/financial international backing/maneuvering.....just screwed up! Opportunity comes once in a life time as it was said once before....marka do not miss ur chance to BLOW!. They blew it, they won't get that same chance again and its too late in my opinion which leads me into another proverb by the Japanese very wise people:

 

"When you are thirsty, it is too late to think about digging a well. "

 

I'll let you dwell on those wise sayings.

 

----------------------------------

With that said, In your next post before u decide to lecture about liberation/revolution, your argument would be a lot more convincing if you can put forth a sucessful strategy and how it is being utilized by the alliance today, I am supposing here since you employ the use of the terminology such as liberation/revolution you understand the basic components required for such a task.

[Fabregas]

quote:south and because lack of strategy, leadership, and political/financial international backing/maneuvering.....just screwed up!

 

 

I don't believe that is entirely the case. Yes, mistakes, errors and some gross political risks were taken by that aforementioned group.Indeed there was a certain amount of political naivety on behalf of the Alitixadi groups. But in all in all, when they look back at that time they would probably take that same root again and again. Other states have special measures when they go to war. Legislations is by-passed, the president is given more financial backing and more international backing is required. When the I.C.U defeated the warlords in June 2006, a meeting was called by Jenday Frazer, Zenawi and others in Adiss Ababa. There it was decided that Ethiopia would invade Somalia and attempt to oust the I.C.U. Channel 4 actually obtained the minutes from that meeting and those parties have not denied those claims. Thus after one month thousands of Ethiopians started crossing the Somali border. Therefore the I.C.U knew full well that had to make preprations for war from that period onwards. Bear in mind this war was instigated by the entire international community, namely U.S,Europe and even the U.N who broke their own resolution. Of course political channels were explored and negotiations took place, but war was imminent as both sides rejected each others proposals. If one believes that the I.C.U could have avoided war with the Ethiopian regime, then you could say that they "blew" their opportunity. I dont believe that I.C.U could have avoided a war with the Ethiopians regime. The only way that could be done was to accept their proposals; to accept the presence of Ethiopians troops, not rule by the Shariah, give up claims to the occupied region and hand over some wanted men. Those proposals are not to different from the ones that were offered to a certain Sayid Muhamd Abdullah Hassan. And he died in the wilderness; sick, tired and betrayed by his own people. But my friend that is a better to leave this world than a lifetime of servitude to another man.

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by ThePoint:

quote:Originally posted by NGONGE:

Your explanation for adding Europe to the argument still makes no sense. I am a Somali talking about my country. It is a fact that the people of my country are divided into clans. It is a fact that there is an animosity between these clans. It is a fact that the whole war is/was as a result of these clannish differences. So what are you telling me here? That clans exist in other parts of the world? And? What’s has that got to do with Somalia burning itself as a result of clannish fervour?

Pardon my interruption. I think the point Bilaal is making here is that we, the Somali public at large, are not (quite) the savages you paint us to be. Clan and clan differences are not the determinative factor in the Somali conflict. It is but a tool. One's clan and clan connections became the only means to gain resources, position, respect and favour starting soon after independance and accelerating in the Barre administration. And not surprisingly this sharply increased clan passions and the more so when aided by a few wily self-serving demagogues. This doesn't excuse the Somali public from succumbing to this manipulation but it doesn't quite rise to the level of sweeping condemnation.

In the future, a decoupling of political power from a blanket ability to bestow resources should help to temper the clan passions unleashed

.

 

Adna ma xanuunkay ku qaadseeyeen?

 

 

The future is the future. Things may get better or worse. If we have no signs, signals or clear clues to what may come to pass in the future we, once again, find ourselves wading into that old familiar sphere of dreams and wishes.

 

Is it: guilty and innocent? But not too guilty of course, rather, more innocent than guilty! However, we do concede the guilt. Just don’t rub it in our faces and hurt our pride. It’s like a couple arrested for committing Zina. The man admits that he slept with the woman but tries to argue that her beauty, the short skirts she wore and her ample cleavage are really what made him do it. The woman argues that he promised to marry her and seduced her with sweet words and future promises (just like the demagogues you mention above)! One feels sorry for both for allowing their basic instincts to lead them to such an act but no judge (particularly an ICU one) will dare argue that they’re not guilty.

 

As things stand and as the wretched 4.5 formula makes plain; today, the conflict in Somalia is a clannish one.

 

 

Fatah-Al-Somaal,

 

I am afraid the point misled you as to the answer to the question (or maybe you diverted him with your assumptions). Still, the answer I was alluding to and thought was clear in that long post of mine is that Somalis, regardless of sides, persuasions or goals should at least try be truthful with themselves and stop this deceit.

 

Your long rant there is full of such duplicity. You end it by telling the one truthful thing that caused you to twist and turn that much. Basically, and with no need for any rational explanations or sound arguments, you DON’T WANT Ethiopians in your land! Could you not have left it at that? Did you really have to spin history that much and announce that the Ethiopians first toppled the former Somali government and then invaded Somalia! Your historical narrative does not take into account the changing of Ethiopian dictators just as Somalia started to crumble! Still, in your straight-line view, the policies of two hostile dictators are the same (and probably even coordinated) when it comes to Somalia!

 

Why employ half-truths to justify a perfectly acceptable position?

[Johnny B]

^Some Somalis may not even accept that perfectly acceptable position, they're too mad at their fellow Somalis so they think of Ethiopia as a worthy collective punishment if not a savior sent by the heavens.

 

so there is more to spin or rather stir in that bubbling cauldron of Somali politics.

[Fabregas]

Ngone, I dont have much time, so ill have to reply to another time...

[xiinfaniin]

^^When you do reply, please consider ThePoint’s complaint and be concise.

[BiLaaL]

1- What factual reasons do you have for taking a firm stand in favour of the Asmara Group taking into account the totality of their actions and statements?

This is a loaded question. One can find flaws in any group in any situation, if one examines the totality of their actions and statements. However, for a group in its infancy, the ARS have performed remarkably well in many spheres and have already achieved many its objectives. Lets go through them.

 

Politically, structurally

 

The Alliance for the Re-Libertaion of Somalia (ARS) has both military and political wings. The military wing has proven itself to be highly structured and disciplined. Where does this structure and discipline come from? It comes from its political leaders. These political leaders have drawn up clear political objectives. The first objective of which is to drive the occupying forces out by force, if peaceful means fail. For those who want proof of the Alliance’s steadfastness on these objectives - they should follow the Alliances publications and search for any ambiguities or inconsistencies therein. Furthermore, the Alliance has established principled doctrine, has highly complicated and streamlined organisational structure and has shown itself to have sophisticated propaganda capabilities, time and again, with its media releases.

 

Diplomatically

 

Diplomatically, the Alliance has represented its case in diplomatic circles quite well, thus far. From this perspective, it is anything but irrelevant. Ever since its creation, it has been inundated with appeals from both the EU and US officials to come to an agreement with the TFG. Ambassador Yates, the US special envoy to Somalia has revealed, in numerous interviews, of his untiring attempts to bring in the Alliance (with special emphasis on the the two Sharifs). However, due to its principles, the Alliance has rejected such appeals until its principal aim is met – that of removing the occupation force.

 

Despite these rejections, diplomats from all quarters continue to flock to Asmara seeking to influence the ARS. For example, the Arab League recently replaced its ambassador to Somalia, incensed at the ARS’s constant (and rightful) rejections of its appeals to compromise over the issue of removing Ethiopian soldiers for the time being, and instead partake in the 2009 elections. The reason for the removal of the AL Ambassador was reported to be his close ties with the ARS. I don't agree with this. I think his inability to convince the ARS to conform with the wishes of the AL was wrongly interpreted to mean that he was in fact sympathetic to the ARS.

 

Militarily

 

Militarily, the ARS has achieved a great deal in a very short time. It has adapted to the conditions much better than its enemy. Both the methods it has chosen (hit-and-run attacks, ambushes, raids etc) and the targets (attacks on transportation routes, Ethiopian military bases, TFG police stations, important government institutions, targeting of intelligence officials and individual TFG ministers) have been successful and are bound to bleed the occupier economically and disintegrate the political ambitions of the TFG.

 

Liberation struggles also require strong public support. It’s clear that the ARS’s military wing has such support. Identification of the many assassinated TFG intelligence officials was most probably intelligence provided by the public, as is the case in all liberation movements.

 

Furthermore, the counter-insurgency methods employed by the Ethiopians aimed at removing this public support has not worked and has in fact had the opposite effect. Such examples include: attempting to further exacerbate economic conditions for the public by deliberately burning the Bakara Market, and forcefully displacing whole neighbourhoods in an attempt to separate the resistance from the public. Lacking the required intelligence from the public, the occupiers have turned to less effective methods of counter-insurgency such as routine-patrols, poorly co-ordinated ambushes, and ineffective sweeps of neighbourhoods. There is no doubt that the resistance has frustrated and demoralised the enemy. The successful and continuous attacks mounted by the ARS’s military wing are sure to decrease the will of the occupier to fight. There is, of course, the force of moral legitimacy on the side of the Alliance and the resistance.

 

The idea that the actions of the ARS have entrenched the occupation is a ludicrous one. Presumably, the proponents of this idea have something like this in mind: Let the Ethiopians do as they may; wait for the 2009 elections and allow Ethiopia to insert more of its foot soldiers in key Ministries, like defence and intelligence. And then what? Try to dislodge them then? After allowing it to get a firm foothold politically and militarily? This is a poorly thought-out position.

 

The role of Eritrea

 

The contentious role of Eritrea is another recurring theme. The sort of military strategy adapted by the resistance often requires outside help to succeed. Eritrea is important from that perspective. There is some truth to the idea that Eritrea is involved in a proxy war and that its support for the ARS emanates from its desire to settle scores with Ethiopia. Proxy wars are never that simple though. In this particular case, the ARS has more to gain from this relationship than does Eritrea. Eritrea’s biggest wish is for her to achieve and maintain a close, long-term relationship with any future Somali state. This it requires in order to counter-act its relative weakness with the ever present danger upon its territory by Ethiopia. It sees the ARS as a group destined to form the next Somali government and one which will not let her down.

 

2- What concrete reasons give you hope that the Asmara Group itself will, in the event it gains power in Somalia, send the country on the hopeful path you dream of? Is it due to the character, calibre, knowledge, experience, technical know-how, statesmanship of the individuals involved - what exactly is it?

Barring the alleged former CIA operatives and turncoats, the majority of the ARS have proven their character by how loyal they’ve been to the cause of not only ending the occupation but also bringing about a better future for Somalia. Crucially, they're men who've denounced tribalism and have publicly vowed that it will no longer play any role in Somali politics. This is incredibly important for any long term success.

 

In terms of experience, the Alliance boasts men who’ve spent a great deal of time (mostly from nationalist bloc) in Somali politics. Surely, this accounts for something.

 

Likewise, the Alliance is not lacking in statesmanship either. Sheikh Sharif, with his serious, scholarly conduct coupled with senior men among the nationalist bloc (barring Aidid) have proven themselves and can match politicians from anywhere in their level of statesmanship. Harder tests are, of course, yet to come and only time will reveal their true statesmanship.

 

The issue of the ARS not having enough technocrats is overplayed. One doesn’t require technocratcs in leadership positions. Technocratcs only play a supporting role. For example, if one examines leaders in the West, one can find many Finance ministers or heads of treasuries who’ve never run a business in their lives. Yet, such people are placed in charge of trillion dollar economies, if their party wins the election. This is despite not knowing much about finance. How do they succeed?

 

Well, this is where technocrats come in. Such ministries have thousands of employees, specialists in that particular field all serving the concerned Ministry and Minister. All the Minister needs to do is have a rough idea of the sort of economic or political objectives he/she wants to achieve. The technocrats employed to serve the Ministry then get to work, draw up the required economic, legal guidelines to accompany the planned objective and sell it to the economic community and the wider citizens at large. Now surely, the ARS know what they want. They have their objectives set out and ready to go. The issue of technocrats comes in much later.

 

I think its about time I let the ARS do its own talking. Here, i'll post excerpts from the Alliances own ideas on both interim and long-term goals. The document is in Somali. I’ve refrained from translating it into English. Honestly, I don’t think I’ll be able to do much justice in translating some of the Somali words in the document. Maybe others here can do that for us. Apologies for those who don't read Somali. Perhaps its about time you learned.

 

Much of the reservations people have of the ARS, I think lies in them not knowing much about the groups objectives. What you read in the media is far too selective. People should read the following excepts ( or better yet, the entire document) and then decide. After reading these short excerpts, i'm sure most people will find it hard to blame the ARS for NOT having clear, unambiguous objectives - both short and long term.

 

 

ISBAHAYSIGA DIB U XOREYNTA JAMHUURIYADDA SOOMAALIYA - XEERKA ISBAHAYSIGA

 

quote:

---

QODOBKA 5 Aragtida Isbaheysiga

 

Dib u dhiska Mujtamac Soomaaliyeed oo ka madaxbannaan qabyaaladda, lehna wacyi iyo garaad qarameed oo ku filan, garanaya waajibaadkiisa iyo xuquuqdiisa, kuna noolaada gobanimo buuxda, nabadgelyo, cadaalad iyo sinnaan.

This excerpt contains long-term goals such as the establishment of a strong, truly independent state, reconciliation, addressing the needs of refugees, establishing commissions on the war crimes committed by occupying forces etc.

 

QODOBKA 6 Ujeedooyinka Isbaheysiga

 

Dib u xoreynta dalka iyo dib u heshiisiin dhab ah oo u danaynaysa shacbiga soomaaliyeed, in la sugo nabadgelyada muwaadinka Soomaaliyeed, baaritaana lagu sameeyo danbiyadii laga galay ummadda, in sidoo kale wax loo qabto dadkii lagu barakiciyey duulaankii cadowga, isla markaasna loo dhiso dowlad u soo celisa shacabka Soomaaliyeed gobanimadiisa la lumiyey, taasoo dhowri doonto caqiidadiisa islaamiga ah, taariikhdiisa soo jireenka ah, dhaqankiisa suubban iyo hantida guud iyo tan gaarka ahba.

Clear, unambigious guidelines on how to achieve its objectives…

 

QODOBKA 7 Sida Isbaheysigu ku Gaarayo Ujeeddooyinkiisa

 

Fulinta iyo meel-marinta ujeedooyinka Isbahaysiga waxaa loo marayaa arrimaha hoos ku qoran:

 

1. Xoojinta muqaawamada iyo la dagalaanka cadowga si looga xoreeyo dalka.

 

2. Mideynta maskaxda, muruqa iyo maalka shacabaka Soomaaliyeed si meel looga soo wada jeesto cadowga dalka Soomaaliyeed xoogga ku haysta.

 

3. Wacyigelinta bulshadda, iyadoo laga faa’iidaysanayo aqoonyahanka, culimada, suugaanleeyda, iyo dadkeena khibradda cilmi iyo hogaaminba leh.

 

4. Soo bandhigidda dhibaatooyinka iyo tacadiyada uu geysanayo gumeystaha iyo kuwa la shaqeeya.

 

5. Wadahadallo nabadeed oo dhab ah in la galo si loo xalliyo dhibaatooyinka soo gaaray ummadda Soomaaliyeed iyadoo loo maraayo dhabo sax ah.

 

6. Furida Xafiisyo iyo xarumo laga fidiyo siyaasadda Isbaheysiga, isla markaana loogu sharaxo qaddiyadda Shacabka soomaaliyeed ee dulman beesha caalamka, saaxiibadda Soomaaliya iyo inta nabadda jecel.

QODOBKA 8 Mabaadii'da Isbaheysiga

 

1. Ku dhaqanka shareecadda Islaamka.

 

2. In Midnimada, xoriyada iyo madaxbanaanida siyaasadeed ee ummadda Soomaliyed ay tahay lama taabtaan.

 

3. In cadowga wadanka haysta laga saaro iyadoo loo marayo wada kasta oo suura gal ah.

 

4. In xalka Soomaalidu uu ku jiro in Soomaalida loo madax banneeyo arrimaheeda, lagana fogeeyo faragelinta shisheeye.

 

5. In la ilaaliyo dhaqanka Islaamka ee suuban ee Soomaalida.

 

6. Isbahaysigu wuxuu aaminsan yahay mabda'ah deris wanaagga, is-xurmeynta iyo xiriir wanaagsan oo lala yeesho dalalka deriska ah iyo caalamka intiisa kale.

 

7. Isbahaysigu wuxuu kasoo horjeedaa gumeysiga nooc kasta oo uu yahay, sidoo kale waxa uu diidan yahay xasuuqa, barakicinta iyo baabi'inta hantida shacabka Soomaaliyeed.

 

8. Isbahaysigu wuxuu aaminsanyahay hirgelinta mabda' sinaan, cadaalad iyo wadaninimo wada gaarta shacabka Soomaaliyeed.

 

9. Xuriyaadka asaasiga ah waa xaq uu muwaadin kasta leeyahay mar haddii uusan ka hor imaanaynin shareecada islaamka.

 

10. Dib u dhiska dalka horumarintiisa, & abuuridda fursado shaqo oo daboola baahida shacabka uu u qabo arrimaha noocaan ah iyo u howlgelidda dowlad wanaag iyo xukun caadil ah.

 

11. Daryeelka maatada dhibku ka soo gaaray dagaaladii sokeeye iyo waxyeelada Cadowga dalka iyo dadkaba ku soo duulay.

B - Gudiga taakulaynta iyo difaaca (Muqaawamada)

 

1. Ka shaqaynta qaabka ugu haboon oo dalka looga saari karo cadowga ku soo duulay.

 

2. Diyaarinta daraasad ku aadan casriyaynta tabaha cadowga lagula dagaalamo, iyadoo uu daraasaadkaas u gudbinayo Golaha Dhexe ama cidda ay khusayso.

 

3. Soo gudbinta talo, la xiriirta baadigoobka iyo helitaanka aaladaha ugu waxtarka badan ee cadowga lagu halakayn (gumaadi) karo.

 

4. Soo gudbinta daraasad la xariira sidii Muqaawamadda dalka oo idil loogu baahin lahaa.

 

5. Hubinta iyo dabagalka in daryeelkii loo qoondeeyey uu gaaray dadkii ku tabaaloobay halganka.

 

6. In la sameeyo maxkamad milatery si loo xakameeyo akhlaaqiyaadka ciidanka.

T- Xoghayaha Siyaasadda iyo Arrimaha dibedda

 

1. Ka shaqaynta xoojinta iyo wanaajinta xiriirka isbaheysiga iyo dowladaha, ururada iyo hay’daha goboleed iyo kuwa caalamiga ah.

 

2. Soo bandhigidda hindisayaal iyo qorshe lagu hormarrinayo xiriir wanaagsan oo lala yeelanayo caalamka intiisa kale.

 

3. Abuurista xiriir saaxiibtinimo oo cusub iyo sii adkeynta kuwii horey u jiray.

 

4. Ka dhaadhacinta iyo ku qancinta caalamka qadiyadda xaqa ah ee shacabka Soomaaliyeed ee u diriraya hanashada xoriyadii ay xaqa u lahaayeen.

 

5. Soo bandhigidda qadiyada Soomaaliyeed fagaarayaasha dowliga iyo kuwa hey’adaha caalamiga.

 

6. Xoojinta xiriirka jaaliyadaha Soomaaliyeed ee debedda iyo diyaarinta qoraalo caalamka loogu sharxayo qadiyadda Soomaaliyeed.

QODOBKA 15 Golaha Dhexe ee Isbaheysiga

 

1- Golaha dhexe wuxuu yeelanayaa qaab dhismeedkan hoos ku qoran.

 

• Gudoomiyaha Golaha Dhexe

 

• 2 Guddoomiye Xigeen Golaha Dhexe

 

• Xoghaye

 

• Iyo 11 Guddi Joogta ah iyadoo la kordhin karo markii ay timaado baahi loo qabo iyadoo laga ansixinaayo Golaha Dhexe ee Isbaheysiga. Waxay kala yihiin gudiyadaasi sida hoos ku qoran:-

 

b. Guddiga taakuleynta difaaca

t. Guddiga garsoorka iyo anshaxa

j. Guddiga warfaafinta iyo wacyigelinta

x. Guddiga arrimaha siyaasadda iyo xiriirka caalamiga ah

kh. Guddiga maaliyada iyo dhaqaalaha

d. Guddiga Arrimaha Bulshada

 

r- Guddiga Qorshaynta iyo Tababarada

s- Guddiga Garsoorka iyo Arimaha Diinta

sh - Guddiga Caafimaadka iyo Arimaha Samafalka

dh - Guddiga Xuquuqal Isnaanka Iyo Danbiyada Dagaal

c- Guddiga Waxbarashada Sare, Cilmi Baarista iyo Teknolojiyada.

QODOBKA 24 Golaha Fulinta ee Isbaheysiga.

 

Golaha fulintu wuxuu ka kooban yahay:

 

A. Gudoomiye

B. Gudoomiye ku xigeen

C. Xoghaya-yaal xafiis iyo ku xigeenadooda oo ka kooban 12 oo kala ah:

 

1. Xafiiska gaashaandhiga iyo difaaca

 

2. Xafiiska maaliyada iyo Dhaqaalaha

 

3. Xafiiska Hantidhowrka Guud ee Isbahaysiga

 

4. Xafiiska arimaha gudaha

 

5. Xafiiska warfaafinta iyo wacyigalinta dadweynaha

 

6. Xafiiska arimaha bulshada

 

7. Xafiiska siyaasada iyo xiriirka Caalamiga ah

 

8. Xafiiska qorshaynta iyo tababarada

 

9. Xafiiska garsoorka iyo arimaha diinta

 

10. Xafiiska caafimaadka iyo arimaha samafalka

 

11. Xafiiska xuquuqal isnaanka iyo Danbiyada Dagaalka

 

12. Xafiiska waxbarashada sare, cilmi baarista iyo teknolojiyada

Guddiga Xoghaynta Shirwaynaha

[ElPunto]

^Intersting answer Bilaal. I'll try to address it sometime this weekend.

 

Professor Ngonge - don't go quiet on us here - you were doing so well earlier

[Paragon]

Perhaps some general words on this topic? Especially on BiLaaL and NGONGE's contribution.

 

I suspect that NGONGE is implying that if all Unionists want is Greater Somalia unity; they should get over their idealism of arriving at it somewhat heroically. That is not how it happens, rather, let them be absolutely objective about things for once. Instead, if they want united Somalia, they should swallow your bride and let those who can bring it about do the job. Fair enough. A reasonable suggestion considering his only deals with the desire to achieve the now-illusive unity some seek.

 

Having conceded the validity of his assertion, however, it is now time for deeper questions to both NGONGE and BiLaaL. Despite the methodological divergences, in this juncture of the debate, it would be important to ask: which kind of unity is most sustainable for greater Somalia, and what would it mean for the short and long-term future of its subjects? The operative terms should be ‘sustainability’ and ‘effectiveness’. Granted unity was achieved by either the TFG or the UIC; whose idea of unity would most likely be sustainable, and if sustainable, effective in future Greater Somalia?

 

First: the problem with a TFG unity, I believe, is that it would be a peculiar brand. Peculiar brand because its establishment is bound to be engineered by the very powers against which we seek unity! Also, since the TFG would be pressured by these powers to denounce the claim over other Somali-inhabited regions under their control, the concept of unity (embodying all five Somali regions) would simply become redundant. What else is there to unite? Force Somaliland back into the fold and cry ‘we’ve achieved ultimate unity’? That would really sound daft. Even if TFG unity were to be given a chance, unity in essence has to be transcendent enough to ensure domestic security.

 

Would the TFG be in a position to guarantee domestic security? How would it possibly fend off against the overtures of its architect and stop it from preying on the state’s subjects? Also, would such unity, if sustained for years, affect the country’s progressive military and economic performance? In the short term, a TFG unity might seem appealing, but in a nutshell, in the long run we are better off it.

 

Second: the problem with UIC unity may appear dissimilar to that of the TFG, but the claim over other Somali-inhabited regions would surely invite constant external existence threats. Overall, however, their idea of unity would be true to its meaning. With Allah and luck on their side, a UIC unity might be what independent and progressive military and economic performance requires. Although it should be mentioned that progressive military performance has the tendency to create a state of geopolitical security dilemma, with which every state must live. Similar to the TFG, however, the issue of forceful creation of unity (with regards to Somaliland and Puntland) is relevant, and harbours the potential to fail in the long run. There is a difficulty in maintaining a mosaic unity of forced peoples who never cease to struggle against it.

 

Having touched on both kinds of unity, now let me try to propose a new kind of unity, which I think would be more appropriate. As I keep mentioning, a respectful way of creating a mutual unity is to appeal to clan consent. Somalis are by nature psychologically a hardheaded proud bunch of clannists. In the debates we have been having in SOL, a consideration of psychological profiling had been a missing ingredient. We are at least in dire need to determine the motivational psychology behind action and rhetoric. Which is the best methodology of goal attainment within the Somali: force, reason or psychological cajoling approach? The answer to this is: forcing Somalis solicits determined defiance; reason becomes the victim of the clannist’s appeal to emotions; but psychological cajoling approach appeals to the very emotionalism the clan appeals to.

 

If we all accept the basic truth that the clan is emotions-driven, maybe the solution to its destructiveness lies within itself, in the skilful employment of emotions. If one pays enough attention to the hydraulics of clannish motivations, it soon becomes clear that the all powerful phrase is none other than: duulaanka reer hebel in aan is difaacno waa Jihad’ (a defense against clan so and so is a holy war). In Somali language, no other phrase than the one above psychologically stirs the emotions of the Somali. Resistance to its appeal is futile, not even the promise of Paradise works. As the proverb rightly states, ‘fiqi tolkii kama Janna tago’ (Not even the ‘fiqi’ forsakes his clan for the promise of Paradise).

 

When such strong allegiance to the clan exists, the principles of logic, as we might know it, usually become instrumentally molded to make irrationally into rationality. The pervasive influence of clannishness thus creates an impenetrable and inescapable psychological and emotional fortress, which to enter, all other efforts become futile.

 

Thus, the issue here is how can one penetrate the fortress and facilitate the escape of those trapped inside it? The simple answer is: to penetrate the fortress, use the very psychology and emotions that had trapped the captives in it and free them. Denial of their greatness and the use of force against them will only lead to ruinous resentful opposition. To date in every debate, there denial and the eradication of clannishness has been prominent, the result of which we now regret. So, let us massage their egos to reach deeper into the clannists. Appeal to their pride and soon their psychological and emotional gates swing wide open. Make them believe they are the masters of their destiny.

 

Base all decisions on their consent. In other words, make available a parallel alternative as appreciative of their participation as their own clans do. Give them the impression that their clans deserve the best opportunities of a negotiated consensual and mutual national unity. Convince them that as men of honour and upstanding that if there was going to unity, it is they and only they who are its architects. Psychologically, nothing appeals to the man and woman than highlighting his or her greatness.

[xiinfaniin]

^^ Most of all losers in their works, whose course on earth has been in vain, while they count that they have done fair deeds. Says Allah! And the verses go on to narrate the after-dialogue said losers will be having with their Maker after they are resurrected limping with a great disability----lacking the sight with which to see! It’s because you’ve deviated the right path after you’ve clearly recognized it. Allah reasons with them.

 

Likewise, the formula for success for Somalis is roundly obvious for all involved. All grievances when examined thoroughly emanate from injustices done during or before the Somali civil war. Justice is what Somalis need---force alone will not right the wrongs that were committed. We can all forget and forgive as it were but one cant sport the lavish trophies of civil war or continually brag about the gains of anarchy, and expect to be forgiven. As such, the tfg needs a fundamental reform before it can present itself as a genuine entity that can be trusted with reviving the Somali republic. The strength it has is the support it gets from the international community. But as pointed out it has been unable to capitalize on that strength. And absence any fundamental reform, it will be a wishful thing to expect it will do any better than it has already done.

 

The Asmara group too is greatly compromised by the inclusion in their leadership with known thugs and shifty characters. ICU, as it was in its original frame, is no longer! And if truth were to be told, this group as it’s presented to us has no capacity to address the core issues for which Somalis have been killing each for nearly two decades. The only value it serves is to challenge Ethiopia’s hegemony in the country, I believe. And that is not enough to revive Somalia. If Ethiopia withdraws today I can’t see them succeeding to control Somalia wholly and peacefully. It needs, the Asmara group does, to recognize that the tfg is a part of Somali political polity and come to the realization that it has to sit down with the tfg despite the circumstances the country is in! The principles [being inflexible to talk to the tfg while Ethiopia’s occupying the south] good Bilaal admires are in fact Asmara groups’ Achilles’ heels. When you don’t have the might to reverse things to your favor, talking to your enemy is a great strategy.

 

Somalis lack the leadership it takes to remedy the damages that civil war done to them. And the hard facts are that Somalis need interference from outside to arrive a lasting solution to their civil strife. My head tells me neither Eritrea nor Ethiopia can serve that function. Perhaps the Saudi Kingdom can. Lets pray for peace yaa Jamaacah!

[Kashafa]

Lets pray for peace yaa Jamaacah!

Peace eh ? What is the peace you speak of, Xiin-ka ?

 

-Is it Baashi's Peace-at-any-cost-including-the-unthinkable (Surrender and Support the TFG, Support the Ethiopians......er um for peace!!!, for peace's sake, I tell you)

 

- Is it Chamberlain's(most famous appeaser in history) Peace-in-our-time ?

 

- Or is it Anwar Sadat's Salaam Al-Shuj'caan(lol)

 

Allow me to tell you my definition of Peace and may you too see the light.

 

Ol' man Patrick Henry speaks for me and millions of Somalis when he says this:

Gentlemen may cry,

Peace, Peace

-- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms!

Our brethren are already in the field!

Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or

peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?

Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take;but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

I'm short on time laakin your analysis is woefully flawed and I don't know where to begin deconstructing it. Just wanted to comment on that 'peace' thingy. More on the rest later.

[Castro]

Somalis lack the leadership it takes to remedy the damages that civil war done to them. And the hard facts are that Somalis need interference from outside to arrive a lasting solution to their civil strife.

I'll buy that. But only when you reject, as you once did ( ), considering the TFG as part of the solution and by "outside interference" you're not including the Tigray.

 

You're forcing me to fly out to your town and stalk you at that Dunn Brothers coffee shop.

[Khalaf]

Xiin, thats what i been saying for long time, somalia at least the south should be put under Trustship (somewhat like colonization era), maybe this is what Ethiopia wants to do and she won't be able for obvious reasons.... but a Muslim country should do it or even America/Europe which are more capeable then Ethiopia.

 

 

Fataah

Bear in mind this war was instigated by the entire international community, namely U.S,Europe and even the U.N who broke their own resolution.

Smartest thing you said............that’s why the ICU stubbornness, defiance and open declarance of war, remember the famous within 7 days we will capture Addis......doesn’t make sense to me, does it to you?........we know the United states (and others) is worlds superpower, their overwhelming authority and influential presence in the Horn of Africa, this means they and their intelligent agencies hold sway in the Horn including Ethiopia, Eritrea, and the anarchic Somalia! Only way the ICU policies if we can call it that make sense is they (maybe not all) were part of plan and still are.

 

 

Ps: Don’t think for one second there will be an islamic state in somalia sxb.....this will come from the east I believe u know what I mean.

 

 

Those proposals are not to different from the ones that were offered to a certain Sayid Muhamd Abdullah Hassan.

i am gonna respect your views sxb, although i see it as an insult to Sayidka....I don’t share them, or consider these cats to be heros far from it....and far from caliber of Sayidka (AUN).....but if you consider their fighting in the battle field the kids that is.....then there are have been likewise “fierce fighters” during somalia’s clan-wars........

 

And he died in the wilderness; sick, tired and betrayed by his own people. But my friend that is a better to leave this world than a lifetime of servitude to another man.

And may Allah give him peace, Sayidka (AUN)! Although I prefer Salahuddin courage with mercy! Sxb, there was a companion ra ( I can’t remember his name), he was about to be executed, but told compile and he would be let go, he refused to forfeit his honor and his principles and choose death! Then he was given choice to free his companions, for his companions for their good he complied! The ego is not a good thing awoowe, one should think about what is good for his people/his country and put their best interests before their own at least that is what leaders do!

 

Ps: I don’t expect anything from somalia and the ppl to be honest, not a true government anyway.....I believe they should be colonized preferable by a Muslim country, and be part of their trustship. Best way to peace....

 

That is my opinion at this moment and i am sticking to it until more developments become in an ever changing situation!

[Castro]

Originally posted by Khalaf:

Xiin, thats what i been saying for long time, somalia at least the south should be put under Trustship (somewhat like colonization era), maybe this is what Ethiopia wants to do and she won't be able for obvious reasons.... but a Muslim country should do it or even America/Europe which are more capeable then Ethiopia.

Only a TFG supporter would want to put the "south" in trusteeship. You don't really think those savages could govern themselves like Somalilandders and Puntlanders, do you?

[Khalaf]

Originally posted by Castro:

quote:Originally posted by Khalaf:

Xiin, thats what i been saying for long time, somalia at least the south should be put under Trustship (somewhat like colonization era), maybe this is what Ethiopia wants to do and she won't be able for obvious reasons.... but a Muslim country should do it or even America/Europe which are more capeable then Ethiopia.

Only a TFG supporter would want to put the "south" in trusteeship. You don't really think those savages could govern themselves like Somalilandders and Puntlanders, do you?

Hmmm! I am not the best in Somalia's geography, but I do believe Kismaayo, and many other areas are also part of the South. Sad u can't see past your clannish lenses adeer. But carry on,