this artical is for American wanna-bees like PALTALK

[Saxardiid]

It seems that the so-called war on terrorism is being used largely as a bogus cover for achieving wider US strategic geopolitical objectives

 

Michael Meacher

Full artical click here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3085656.stm

 

i think this artical answars your query about why most somalis were against iraqi war.

[Xalimo7]

All along we knew ,what was behind the attack of the Iraqi Regime, it wasn't WMD, it wasn't about Terrorism,simply the war was only about "Economic War". Most of the ppl didn't have a clue the whole cause of the war. Iraq was the only Oil producing country who is also a member of OPEC, who not long ago ,dropped to be exchanged its Oil Revenue in Dollars, but instead choose The "Euro". And imagine if the rest of the Arab world followed his lead, America would have suffered big time,so that is for fact. As for Britsh, my take on them are, they (the British) are nothing more than Drunken Americans.So they no longer considered to be a Democratic Country, consider them to be the 51st state of the States.

 

see u dude

[Saxardiid]

xalimo7

your right oil is the most important reason for iraqi war and the prove is that the only ministry that occopiors -the US & Brits- gave full protection from looting was ministry of oil.

As for Britsh, my take on them are, they (the British) are nothing more than Drunken Americans.So they no longer considered to be a Democratic Country, consider them to be the 51st state of the States.

 

as you may know that many british people opposed the war and they took streets of london and other cities, where more than million people domonstated against the war. Now government is underfire, people accused the government of lieing. the government now has a difficult task to talk other issues than iraq war. i think those who took the decision to attack iraq are nervous and will receive their bayback in polling day.

best wishes

[N.O.R.F]

This is something that is made easier for us to understand because we dont believe the lies perpertrated by the mass media. Like black eyed peas are currently singing "Mis-information by the mass media effecting young minds quicker than bacteria"

 

For those of u in the uk, a John Pliger prog on ITV next mon 22nd will expose the truth, hopefully! For more info Click the link

 

http://pilger.carlton.com/

[JIDAAWY]

Originally posted by New-nation:

as you may know that many british people opposed the war and they took streets of london and other cities, where more than million people domonstated against the war. Now government is underfire, people accused the government of lieing. the government now has a difficult task to talk other issues than iraq war. i think those who took the decision to attack iraq are nervous and will receive their bayback in polling day.

best wishes [/QB]

One thing I have noticed is that confused Americans still believe in the nonsense, promoted by the White House and neo-conservatives, that Iraq was behind the 9/11 attacks and was bristling with deadly weapons that could annihilate the US and UK `in 45 minutes and had to be invaded!! Seems to me that Iraqis, Iranians, Pakistanis, Saudis, Taliban, and al-Qaida, are all too much for many geographically and historically challenged Americans who don’t care weather their government lied to them about the invasion of iraq or not. They simply wanted to see some muslims get screwed in retaliation for 9-11. doesn’t matter if they did it or not..

I scanned the American cable news networks for a single voice challenging the distortions and bunkum coming from the White House and neo-conservative networks, and sure enough there were none.. looks like muffling up the war criticism on their media was part of the war plans!!! The British and Canadian media however, carried both pro and anti-war views; similar to the article you posted, as a result there was far more healthy skepticism in both nations about the war than in America. Don’t get me wrong though.. cuz I believe the Brit and Canadian media still belong to the same trash pin the American media lies in…

 

Thank you so much for the Article New Nation, and yes, I hope it gives all the American wanabees a black eye

[Saxardiid]

Northerner

thanks for your information, i really like to watch John's new prog on ITV and will pass it to many friends who would enjoy it watching.

 

Jidaawy

Originally posted by JIDAAWY:

One thing I have noticed is that confused Americans still believe in the nonsense, promoted by the White House and neo-conservatives, that Iraq was behind the 9/11 attacks and was bristling with deadly weapons that could annihilate the US and UK `in 45 minutes and had to be invaded!!

I think fear factor is employed here, if you scare people to death then they dont look details and dont use their head.

 

 

Seems to me that Iraqis, Iranians, Pakistanis, Saudis, Taliban, and al-Qaida, are all too much for many geographically and historically challenged Americans who don’t care weather their government lied to them about the invasion of iraq or not.

i think people care of those thinks but they give their government the benefit of dought. when the lie start to appear people will give the government boody nose like what happen in britain last night when the government lost one of the safest seat in the country.

 

Prime Minister Tony Blair has signalled his readiness to listen to voter concerns after the Liberal Democrats seized one of Labour's safest seats in a key north London by-election. read more http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3123378.stm

 

before the war Tony Blair's support from his party and the nation was over the top. now this is what his colloegues are suggesting.

 

But fellow ex-minister Glenda Jackson said she believed Labour could win a third term - if Tony Blair was to quit as prime minister and party leader. read more http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3122496.stm

They simply wanted to see some muslims get screwed in retaliation for 9-11. doesn’t matter if they did it or not..

i think islam and muslims are used many times as an escapegoat as communist used to be. but us muslims should not allow that by generalising all british and americans. there are some british polititions, media, intelectuals and common people who worked very hard to stop their country going to war with false pretences.

 

I believe the Brit and Canadian media still belong to the same trash pin the American media lies in…

bro i dont know Canadian media but british one i think they evenly split to pro and against the war.

 

best wishes

[African]

Nice war - here's the bill

Donald Hepburn NYT

 

Costs in Iraq

 

TAPPAN, New York In 1991, America's so-called Operation Tin Cup got enough money from its allies to cover the costs of the Gulf War. In contrast, what could be called "Operation Begging Bowl" after the latest war in Iraq has come up empty, leaving the United States stuck with the bill for the invasion and occupation - the full extent of which is only now becoming apparent.

.

The Bush administration's recent willingness to consider a greater United Nations role on the ground is the first sign that it is aware of how vastly mistaken its assertions about the occupation were.

.

Contrary to the prewar view that Iraq's oil revenues would greatly offset American costs, we now know that Iraq - with its shattered economy, devastated oil industry and plundered national wealth - is incapable of making any significant reimbursement of the invasion and occupation costs. And the military expense is only a fraction of the cost of making Iraq into a functioning country.

.

So, how much is this experiment in nation-building going to cost the American taxpayer? First, let's consider what has already been spent.

.

According to the Pentagon, the cost of preparation, aid to noncombatant allies and the invasion itself amounted to $45 billion. Then there is the much-bandied "billion dollars a week" phrase, which seems an accurate estimate of military expenses since the end of serious fighting in May. Assuming a five-year occupation, that's about $300 billion.

.

But these familiar figures are only part of the story. First, as these are borrowed funds, they are already incurring interest charges. More important, according to material released by American officials, the United States must meet an estimated $5 billion in initial humanitarian aid and $8 billion in Iraqi government salaries, as well as about $7 billion for repairs to public utilities and to restore vital services over the next two years.

.

In addition, Iraq is buried under a mountain of foreign debt - roughly $350 billion. These debts will have to be paid off eventually.

.

It will also most likely cost $3 billion to resettle nearly one million Iraqi refugees who are returning from exile (there are also an estimated 1.5 million Iraqis who were displaced within the country and will need aid to rebuild their communities).

.

Ordinarily, assistance could be expected to come through United Nations and nongovernmental groups, but in this case the diplomatic difficulties surrounding the invasion leave the situation unsettled.

.

Still, the biggest problem facing Iraq is that after decades of corruption, economic stagnation and declining productivity, it faces at least a decade's worth of reconstruction and improvements. This will include rebuilding ports, farms, roads, telecommunications systems, power plants, hospitals and water systems, as well as introducing a medical benefit plan, a national pension scheme, and new laws for foreign investment and intellectual property rights.

.

The country needs a revised criminal code and judiciary system, a new tax code and collection system, and an electoral voting system with appropriate technology. Using postwar American and United Nations estimates for these and many other tasks, the total bill is likely to be at least $200 billion over a decade.

.

Iraq will need long-term loans from the World Bank, the United Nations Iraq Development Fund, the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the Arab Development Fund, the European Union Aid Program and others.

.

Yet few of these organizations will be keen to make loans until Iraq has a new constitution and an elected government that has put in place effective legal, arbitration, banking and fiscal systems.

.

Let's face it, rebuilding Iraq is going to be far more expensive than Americans have been led to believe. Just as it seems inevitable that concessions must be made to get other countries to relieve the burden on American troops, now is the time for the United States to mend fences with the United Nations and its allies to relieve the burden on American taxpayers as well.

.

The writer, former chief executive of Bahrain Petroleum Co., is an adviser to the Middle East Policy Council. Costs in Iraq

 

TAPPAN, New York In 1991, America's so-called Operation Tin Cup got enough money from its allies to cover the costs of the Gulf War. In contrast, what could be called "Operation Begging Bowl" after the latest war in Iraq has come up empty, leaving the United States stuck with the bill for the invasion and occupation - the full extent of which is only now becoming apparent.

.

The Bush administration's recent willingness to consider a greater United Nations role on the ground is the first sign that it is aware of how vastly mistaken its assertions about the occupation were.

.

Contrary to the prewar view that Iraq's oil revenues would greatly offset American costs, we now know that Iraq - with its shattered economy, devastated oil industry and plundered national wealth - is incapable of making any significant reimbursement of the invasion and occupation costs. And the military expense is only a fraction of the cost of making Iraq into a functioning country.

.

So, how much is this experiment in nation-building going to cost the American taxpayer? First, let's consider what has already been spent.

.

According to the Pentagon, the cost of preparation, aid to noncombatant allies and the invasion itself amounted to $45 billion. Then there is the much-bandied "billion dollars a week" phrase, which seems an accurate estimate of military expenses since the end of serious fighting in May. Assuming a five-year occupation, that's about $300 billion.

.

But these familiar figures are only part of the story. First, as these are borrowed funds, they are already incurring interest charges. More important, according to material released by American officials, the United States must meet an estimated $5 billion in initial humanitarian aid and $8 billion in Iraqi government salaries, as well as about $7 billion for repairs to public utilities and to restore vital services over the next two years.

.

In addition, Iraq is buried under a mountain of foreign debt - roughly $350 billion. These debts will have to be paid off eventually.

.

It will also most likely cost $3 billion to resettle nearly one million Iraqi refugees who are returning from exile (there are also an estimated 1.5 million Iraqis who were displaced within the country and will need aid to rebuild their communities).

.

Ordinarily, assistance could be expected to come through United Nations and nongovernmental groups, but in this case the diplomatic difficulties surrounding the invasion leave the situation unsettled.

.

Still, the biggest problem facing Iraq is that after decades of corruption, economic stagnation and declining productivity, it faces at least a decade's worth of reconstruction and improvements. This will include rebuilding ports, farms, roads, telecommunications systems, power plants, hospitals and water systems, as well as introducing a medical benefit plan, a national pension scheme, and new laws for foreign investment and intellectual property rights.

 

The country needs a revised criminal code and judiciary system, a new tax code and collection system, and an electoral voting system with appropriate technology. Using postwar American and United Nations estimates for these and many other tasks, the total bill is likely to be at least $200 billion over a decade.

.

Iraq will need long-term loans from the World Bank, the United Nations Iraq Development Fund, the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the Arab Development Fund, the European Union Aid Program and others.

.

Yet few of these organizations will be keen to make loans until Iraq has a new constitution and an elected government that has put in place effective legal, arbitration, banking and fiscal systems.

.

Let's face it, rebuilding Iraq is going to be far more expensive than Americans have been led to believe. Just as it seems inevitable that concessions must be made to get other countries to relieve the burden on American troops, now is the time for the United States to mend fences with the United Nations and its allies to relieve the burden on American taxpayers as well.

.

The writer, former chief executive of Bahrain Petroleum Co., is an adviser to the Middle East Policy Council. Costs in Iraq.

[Thinkerman]

Great topic to debate guys...

Thx for the infor North ill check out the programme for sure

[ferocious]

this is an intresting topic:

lattest news on the war on iraq

 

September 17, 2003 @ 08:32:18 CDT ( )

 

Report by YellowTimes.org

NewsFromtheFront.org

 

CHICAGO (NFTF.org) -- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld admitted yesterday that there was no reason to believe that Saddam Hussein had any role in the September 11 terrorist attacks on the United States.

 

Despite the fact that in a recent poll 70 percent of Americans now believe that Saddam Hussein assisted in the September 11 attacks, Rumsfeld said at a Pentagon news conference, "I've not seen any indication that would lead me to believe that I could say that."

 

It is not clear why well over a majority of Americans believe that Saddam Hussein had a part in the September 11 attacks. Power and Interest News Report analyst Matthew Riemer believes "that this widely held misbelief is a direct result of the speeches and statements made by various members of the Bush administration including the president himself, Dick Cheney, Condoleezza Rice, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, and Colin Powell."

........read the link below its intresting......

 

 

http://pinr.com/report.php?ac=view_report&report_id=88

[Saxardiid]

guys

this is the pain

We are facing death in Iraq for no reason

A serving US soldier calls for the end of an occupation based on lies

 

For the past six months, I have been participating in what I believe to be the great modern lie: Operation Iraqi Freedom.

After the horrific events of September 11 2001, and throughout the battle in Afghanistan, the groundwork was being laid for the invasion of Iraq. "Shock and awe" were the words used to describe the display of power that the world was going to view upon the start of Operation Iraqi Freedom. It was to be an up-close, dramatic display of military strength and advanced technology from within the arsenals of the American and British military. to read more click here http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/comment/0,12956,1045361,00.html

 

Bush's envoy is humiliated!

 

Blair gets the cold shoulder at Berlin summit

 

Tony Blair's efforts to seek agreement with France and Germany over Iraq suffered an embarrassing setback yesterday when French President Jacques Chirac bluntly insisted that power should be handed back to Iraqis in a 'few months'. to read more please click here http://observer.guardian.co.uk/europe/story/0,11363,1046627,00.html

 

keep the good articals going and thanks every body.

 

best wishes

[Grad Student]

yeah dudes! and dudettes! all i can say is politics is not my cup of tea! so, if anyone of you are craving for a fresh brew of my intellectual drink, cut the crap of politics and join us in other more interesting forums.

[LuCkY]

"There was no imminent threat. This was made up in Texas, announced in January to the Republican leadership that war was going to take place and was going to be good politically. This whole thing was a fraud," Kennedy said.

Check out the rest: Kennedy interview

[Saxardiid]

this is one way of incurring the cost of the iraqi war!

 

Iraq adopts sweeping economic reforms

 

The American-backed administration in Iraq has announced sweeping economic reforms, including the sale of all state industries except for oil.

 

 

But the BBC's Nick Springate, in Baghdad, says many ordinary Iraqis will see the moves as a big sell-off with predominantly multi-national, American companies viewed as getting "rewards".

read more here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3126522.stm

 

or this one America puts Iraq up for sale

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=445744

 

its simple economics isn't it?

 

 

this is another development, muslims in britian are panishing their government for what they have done to iraqi people.

 

Muslims instrumental in shock Lib-Dem victory

 

In what was described as a ‘shock result’, Sarah Teather, the Liberal Democratic candidate for the Brent East By-Elections managed to overturn a Labour majority of 13,000 and grab the constituency seat, with the backing of the vast local Muslim Community.

 

read more here http://www.mabonline.net/media/news/articles/uk2003/brenteast20.htm

 

best wishes

[JIDAAWY]

how do you guys feel when the US media brands the Iraqi resistance to the occupation to be some “terrorist backed by Al qaida” ?

[Thinkerman]

Well its quite simple bro. It is much easier to label the iraqi unrest as terrorims rather than actually takle the real issues which are the unforseen fall outs of the illegal occupation of iraq. What they american and foriegn troops and organisations are paying now is Blood money for their ACTIONS.

 

Its as simpel as that