Gulwadayaal claim samtar is now a victim

[Thankful]

Castro,

 

It doesn't work that way, you need evidence and other hard facts. Alhamdulilah I did not witness the war crimes in NW Somalia, so I am unable to bring forward a case.

 

However, there are many witnesses who have completely remained silent, and have never reported anyone else.

 

I guess this is a joke to you, which is fine.

 

I dont want any one prosecuted until there is a thorough investigation.

[The Zack]

Thankful, you have a very good point, these people are either not getting it or just don't want to get it.

One can't just cherry pick justice, cabdina xir calina dhaaf ma soconeyso.

[Thankful]

Zack that is my only point! After 2 decades no complaints have come forward. Even though it has been over a decade that Mr. Samatar was first accused no one else has started up new cases any where else in the world.

 

I'll end it with this - the reason why the area's in Somalia that have experienced the most destruction have not come forward is plain and simple. They know once the investigations start up, many people who now hold public office will be prime suspects.

[Qudhac]

Originally posted by Thankful:

Castro,

 

It doesn't work that way, you need evidence and other hard facts. Alhamdulilah I did not witness the war crimes in NW Somalia, so I am unable to bring forward a case.

 

However, there are many witnesses who have completely remained silent, and have never reported anyone else.

 

I guess this is a joke to you, which is fine.

 

I dont want any one prosecuted until there is a thorough investigation.

No no no the Evidence is for the courts to look at and decide his guilt or not, people dont have to first show their evidence before someone can be brought to court, however they would need those proof to convict thats how lawsuit works.

 

the fact that some people chose to renmain silent is irellevant to bringing a case against someone, and its not excuse to say oh but others havent been charged.

[Castro]

Originally posted by Thankful:

Zack that is my only point! After 2 decades no complaints have come forward. Even though it has been over a decade that Mr. Samatar was first accused no one else has started up new cases any where else in the world.

 

I'll end it with this - the reason why the area's in Somalia that have experienced the most destruction have not come forward is plain and simple. They know once the investigations start up, many people who now hold public office will be prime suspects.

I refuse to believe that anyone could be this thick.

[A_Khadar]

Originally posted by Koora-Tuunshe:

Adeer qabyaaladu meel xun bay gashaa. Waar keebaa daran, kan waranka kugu dhifta iyo kan kugu ligliga. If it comes to this, your ruler is worst of a criminal.

 

Hadii ay amar fulin iyo talis noqoto, dee Samatarba Siyaadbaa amrey.

KT you said it all. It aint an execuse Riyaale was ordered by Samater. Whoever commits a crime from the one ordered to the one executed, they are all criminal in my book. If Samater is a criminal because he gave the order, Riyaale provided the source to make that order.

[A_Khadar]

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The plaintiffs do not claim that Samatar personally committed the atrocities or that he was directly involved.

 

But they said the Somali intelligence agencies and the military police under his command engaged in the killings, rapes and torture, including the use of electric shocks, of civilians.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This peice proves that was Riyaale, current president of SL...

[A_Khadar]

Originally posted by Qudhac:

xiinfiin

 

al hamdulilah i have not personally lost family members but plenty of people lost loved ones just because the likes of samater ordered their disapearance or execution.

 

its not about me or wether am strong or not its about bringing those who commited massacre to book no matter where they run or hide to or how much excuses their supporters come up with.

Same can be said the likes of Siilanyo, Kaahin, and other SNM leaders committed massacre to civilians and nomads... Never throw an arrow up in the air, you never know where it lands...

[Thankful]

Originally posted by Qudhac:

quote:Originally posted by Thankful:

Castro,

 

It doesn't work that way, you need evidence and other hard facts. Alhamdulilah I did not witness the war crimes in NW Somalia, so I am unable to bring forward a case.

 

However, there are many witnesses who have completely remained silent, and have never reported anyone else.

 

I guess this is a joke to you, which is fine.

 

I dont want any one prosecuted until there is a thorough investigation.

No no no the Evidence is for the courts to look at and decide his guilt or not, people dont have to first show their evidence before someone can be brought to court, however they would need those proof to convict thats how lawsuit works.

 

the fact that some people chose to renmain silent is irellevant to bringing a case against someone, and its not excuse to say oh but others havent been charged.

Yes you do need to show evidence first, the courts want to ensure that there is enough reason to go ahead with the costly and time consuming court hearing. They are extremely busy and can't afford to hear every case. They want to look at the evidence and then decide if it is enough to go forward with. If it is enough, they will bring it to court and allow the accused to defend themselves against the acquisations. AFTER both sides argue, then they courts will decided!

 

You need a strong case with evidence to even get to court, they wont just accept everyone.

 

Castro,

 

No one is being thick here, it's called a difference of opinion. Just because someone does not agree with you. Doesn't mean they are being thick. As much as you might want to believe, your way is not always the right way.

 

This is getting ridiculous now, all I want is for a thorough investigation off all our alleged war criminals regardless of where they come from.

[Qudhac]

alien

 

The snm saved lives by removing that dictotorship thats was carrying out the massacres of civillians and indeed they succeeded... somaliland will testify to that.

 

the snm never commited massacre but during the war people died as in any war but thats different to orchestrated massacre and executions of civilians by government.

 

your ducking and diving only exposes the holes in your argument of trying to make excuses for war criminals, that used state apparatus to round up imprison torture and execute civillinas all over former somalia.

 

 

Thank

 

your argument is rubbish who said there is no evidence, like i said thats for lawyers to decide no you.

[A_Khadar]

Originally posted by Qudhac:

alien

 

The snm saved lives by removing that dictotorship thats was carrying out the massacres of civillians and indeed they succeeded... somaliland will testify to that.

 

the snm never commited massacre but during the war people died as in any war but thats different to orchestrated massacre and executions of civilians by government.

 

your ducking and diving only exposes the holes in your argument of trying to make excuses for war criminals, that used state apparatus to round up imprison torture and execute civillinas all over former somalia.

Qudhac,

 

Your argument isn't going no where saaxiib since you believe SNM never committed massacre yet killing other people and burning their towns was ok and was part of saving lives...It's a laughable of you are looking for justice while in the same context you are denying THE SAME JUSTICE for others. I call this a mere clannish point of view and as long as you are glued with this view, don't expect any acknowledgement and sympathy from others.

 

I made no execuse for criminals but you kept shooting on your feet because you are the ONLY one so far stood defending Riyaale’s criminal record in this discussion.

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by Thankful:

Zack that is my only point! After 2 decades no complaints have come forward. Even though it has been over a decade that Mr. Samatar was first accused no one else has started up new cases any where else in the world.

 

I'll end it with this - the reason why the area's in Somalia that have experienced the most destruction have not come forward is plain and simple. They know once the investigations start up, many people who now hold public office will be prime suspects.

Castro is correct. You are being thick, adeer. The areas in Somalia that have experienced the most destruction DO NOT HAVE ALL THE SUSPECTS LIVING IN AMERICA!

 

Ok, lets get back to where we left it. You have no problem with going for Samatar (you already said it a million times) but you argue that he was the only one who is 'being picked on', right? Guess what?

 

 

On November 10, 2004, CJA filed suit against

Colonel Yusuf Abdi Ali (a.k.a Tokeh)

a former officer in the Somali National Army during the military dictatorship of Siad Barré,

on behalf of two members

of the Is**q clan who were brutally tortured by soldiers under Tokeh's command.

 

The case was referred by the court to the U.S. State Department for its input on immunities issues where it remains stalled.

Source

 

Now can we please drop it.

[Thankful]

NGONGE,

 

You know back when someone came out and said the world was round he was look at as crazy. People just didn’t want to hear any logic.

 

That is what going on with people like you and Castro, if someone disagrees with you, you complain that the person is being thick. Regardless, like I've said to Castro just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean they are being think or wrong. Anyways, whatever.

 

 

This is from the source you provided:

 

On November 10, 2004, CJA filed suit against Colonel Yusuf Abdi Ali (a.k.a Tokeh) a former officer in the Somali National Army during the military dictatorship of Siad Barré, on behalf of two members of the Is**q clan who were brutally tortured by soldiers under Tokeh's command.

 

The case was referred by the District Court judge to the U.S. State Department for its input on immunities issues where it remains stalled.

 

 

I think we all are aware of Colonel Yusuf Abdi Ali, I read about him quite a bit, the case is stalled and it is brough on by a specific group of NW Somalia( Which has been the case with Samatar as well.)

 

In Samatar's case it is a civil lawsuit going beofore the Supreme Court, which the alleged victims are looking for money!! Now, I’m not sure if they expect to get it from him or if they will sue the Somali government. But they aren't asking for his arrest, they are asking for money.

 

I don't know how to actually make you comprehend the argument here. But i'll try again!

 

General Samatar's case as well as Colonel Ali's were both brought on by NW Somalis (and as your article show a specific tribe!)

 

The alleged victims are not suing the men for necessarily carrying out all of the actual abuses but it was the actual people under their command (i.e. intelligence officers and other government officials.)

 

The whole problem and argument here has to do with the fact that when Dahir Riyaale worked in Siad Barre's brutal NSS. He work in the area's that ALL these victims claim the abuse took place. He also visited Virginia and Washington a few years back, where many of the victims lived. Yet did these victims protest? Did they write letters of complaint? This man was actually named President of their nation and holds important interest to them.

Read this Cornell Edu

Plaintiff Bashe Abdi Yousuf, a member of the disfavored Is**q clan, claims that

NSS agents

abducted him and tortured him by using electric shock and the “Mig,” a torture method through which Yousuf’s hands and feet were bound together in the air behind him and a heavy rock was placed on his back. See Samantar, 552 F.3d at 374.

In his lawsuit the main victim Yousuf, claims that NSS agents are the one's that abducted him, so surely he would be upset when Dahir Riyaale visited his town of Virginia. But no, he didn't nor did any of the other victims. Which is UNBELIEVABLE?

 

After the The Universal Declaration of Human Rights of 1948, you can no longer use the excuse that you were following orders. That if you carry out an order that goes against basic human rights, you will be held accountable, and doesn’t matter if you were an 18 year old soldier. Think about it, an ex-NSS officer in Siad's regime was named president of the same people that accuse the NSS of abuse

 

 

The government of NW Somalia is full of ex-Siad Guys, yet these victims have never been complained about or refused entry into government, they have all been forgiven. The Victims in U.S don’t have an issue when an NSS Station chief (the same NSS agents that they alleged abducted them and where the brutal crimes took place) comes and visits there city.

 

The arguments has to do with the hypocrites (both witnesses and on SOL) that accuse Gen Samatar and if you want to add Ali, they want to see others punished and not their own.

 

These Witnesses and others that are happy this case is going through aren't looking for justice for all; they are just looking for justice against certain people.

[NGONGE]

^^ It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, adeer. You ARE being thick. You ask why only one person is being sued (and go on about his weak clan and lack of support), I give you the case of a second man but you turn it on its head and go on about Riyaale. Riyaale lives in SOMALILAND not DC. If Riyaale lived in DC and you wanted to sue him NOBODY can stop you. The whole Riyaale issue is a red herring.

 

All those against this case have not come up with one acceptable reason why they actually think it should not go on. Furthermore, you all make it an SL problem when it is a case brought on by individuals living in that city.

 

I can see your argument about punishing all those responsible for all the crimes in Somalia. As a starting point, it is actually a great argument. But it has nothing to do with this case.

 

P.S.

I'm sure they'll be happy if they won money from Samatar but even if he does not have the money, the fact that he's proven guilty in a court of law is probably more than enough for them.

[Thankful]

How is this a red herring? Since the first post this had to do with the double standards! That only one "group" is seeking justice(in Samatar case and the one you provided Ali), but that this same group turns a blind eye to their alleged criminals! Who hold public office and vists the west numerous times. That was the main point since the beginning!

 

Samatar is the only man being sued that is going to the Supreme Court, from the article you provided it clearly says. Both Law suits are coming from one specfic group in the U.S. When Abdullahi Yusuf went to London he was protested! When Augusto Pinochet of chile went he was also protested!!

It doesn't matter where the person lives, if they visit a nation they are subject to those nations laws, when Qeybdiid came to Sweden he was arrested immediately! The same article you provided, the victim says:

 

On November 19, 1981, three National Security Service (NSS) agents abducted him from his office and took him to a facility dedicated for the detention and interrogation of members of UFFO. Yousuf was searched, sequestered, and left for two days without food or water. A few days later, in early December 1981, two military policemen and an NSS officer came to his cell and blindfolded, handcuffed, and forced him into the back of a truck.

All I am showing you is the hypocracy in all this! That's it, I am not saying he should be let go. I am just saying that these wintesses remain silent when an NSS Station Chief in NW Somalia visited their state of Virginia! He is the president were their tribe is dominant(you're article mentioned tribe).

 

Samatar who is from a minority group, is being sued by group that has WAY more supporters, who turn a blind eye to their alleged war criminals and make them public office.

 

I just want to show you the hypocracy!