Gulwadayaal claim samtar is now a victim

[Thankful]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

No shred of evidence? How about the man admitting it himself?

Really ok produce it!

 

The plaintiffs do not claim that Samatar personally committed the atrocities or that he was directly involved.

 

But they said the Somali intelligence agencies and the military police under his command engaged in the killings, rapes and torture, including the use of electric shocks, of civilians.

He admitted something that the witnesses aren't even alleging?

 

Halyeey 11,

 

With me, I just can't comprehend why out of all the warlords and other people accused of human rights abuses. Who are strongly hated, are walking free. Makes no sense.

[kyz]

they're after selective justice where some are punished for their crimes while others are overlooked, but the general does not deserve any sympathy because he was afweyne's miishaar.

[Castro]

Originally posted by Thankful:

What are you talking about? Riyaale visited Virginia and Washington, a former Siad NSS intelligence officer. Yet was there any protests? Did anyone write letters?

Did you demonstrate or write letters? Or you just like whining on these boards? No one sued Riyaale for war crimes. Someone sued Samater for war crimes. Son, if you don't understand this, I cannot help you.

 

Compared to Samatar's role and rank in Afweyne's government, Riyaale is a spit on the ground.

[Qudhac]

soldeirs and lower ranking officials dont just decide to do things on their own accord they are ordered by senior officials.

 

its not secret the likes of samater was doing the ordering of alot of massacres of civilians all over former somalia, now those that say what about people who carried out the orders

 

well a foot soldeir carryies out orders from the likes of samater and first and formost the big fish must be put on trail and then you can go after lower ranking officials.

 

the bucket stops with those that make decision and these massacres were decided at samater door step.

[xiinfaniin]

Given the level of grief voiced by qudhac, one is left to wonder which qudhac is telling the truth; the strong qudhac that chases the Garaads from Hol-hol and imprisons women and children in Lasanod, or the grieve-stricken qudhac that continues to bear the wounds of civil war, wishing to have his day in court against those who wronged him.

[Qudhac]

xiinfiin

 

al hamdulilah i have not personally lost family members but plenty of people lost loved ones just because the likes of samater ordered their disapearance or execution.

 

its not about me or wether am strong or not its about bringing those who commited massacre to book no matter where they run or hide to or how much excuses their supporters come up with.

[Thankful]

Qudhac,

 

during the Nuremberg trials Nazi soldiers tried to use that defense, that they were only following orders.It didn't work and they were found quilty. The ones given the orders and the ones following were just as guilty.

 

You obviously want to defend and dimish Riyaale's role!

 

 

Castro, No one sued Riyaale for war crimes

And that's my question, why hasn't anyone from NW Somalia sued him, he worked for the NSS, he was their during the time the worst abuses took place? It's simple, because he is one of their guys. Just like Egal was to! We both know if Samatar was from there two, he would have been forgiven.

 

There is obviously a differnce in opinion here, Qudhac and Castro! I am all for Mr. Samatar being investigated, (even though this is a civil case and the accusers are looking for financial reward).

 

I'll leave it at this, I just don't get how some of you are looking for justice against him and others that aren't from your respected area's but remain silent when it comes to the alleged criminals from your "side."

 

That's my only issue here.

[Qudhac]

sxb your argument is stuff and nonesense, and does not even deserve a reply.... you posing the same question which have been answered again and again.

 

your argument is flawed in the sense that you lump everyone together like they are one individuall.

 

if a person has case against samater who gave the orders for example to kidnap imprison and execute a citizen then that person has case agains samater and does not mean every person needs to stand trail only the accused.

 

this is case being brough by normal people agains the men.

 

you cannot say unless everyone goes to trail then no one should go to trail that logic warped.

 

no one is saying the soldeirs should not be held account for their actions but the most guilty of all is those that made the decision and used the state apparatus such as the army and police under their direct command to commit those crimes.

[Thankful]

There is no "these men"; It is one man!!!

 

Qudhac, this is case being brough by normal people agains the citizen who were wrong by these men. if a person has case against samater who gave the orders for example to kidnap imprison and execute a citizen then

that does not mean every person needs to stand trail only the accused.

 

 

No, that is not how international law works!! The people who carried out the alleged orders are just as guilty as the ones that ordered it. That's why those soldiers in Abu Gharib were punished. And you are still hearing of nazi prison guards in their 90s who are in wheel chairs still being arrested.

 

And these same citizen who brough forward the case, remain silent against the station chief of a bulding that saw physical abuse take place.

 

I've said it already, Samatar should be investigated, but while Samatar's case goes along, why hasn't any of the many other war criminals ever been sued as well? Not a single one has!

 

In Liberia they had a truth and reconciliation tribunal that has put forward many names of those that should be investigated for war crimes. They even named the current president Ellen Johnson Sirleaf as someone that should be investigated to.

 

In their Final Report, issued June 2009, the TRC included Sirleaf in a list of 50 names of people that should be "specifically barred from holding public offices; elected or appointed for a period of thirty (30) years" for "being associated with former warring factions.

That's how it is done, any one associated should be investigated.

 

You know what, you and many others will never admit that there any war criminal who are a part of the party you support.

 

Since no one has come forward they are all innocent in your eyes!

[Che -Guevara]

In law, it is not what you know, it is what you could prove-arguing if he did or didn't is really beside the point!

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by Thankful:

quote:Originally posted by NGONGE:

No shred of evidence? How about the man admitting it himself?

Really ok produce it!

 

The plaintiffs do not claim that Samatar personally committed the atrocities or that he was directly involved.

 

But they said the Somali intelligence agencies and the military police under his command engaged in the killings, rapes and torture, including the use of electric shocks, of civilians.

He admitted something that the witnesses aren't even alleging?

 

Halyeey 11,

 

With me, I just can't comprehend why out of all the warlords and other people accused of human rights abuses. Who are strongly hated, are walking free. Makes no sense.

Ooh! You were talking about the case itself and not the man's guilt or his BBC interview when he admitted to ordering the attacks on H town! Wan ku fahmay. Carry on.

[Thankful]

Wow, I have never see someone take things out of context like this. Lol, okay! Armed rebels leave the mountains and enter the city and make a base, after being warned not to. Try that in any country in the world and you'll see the same response.

 

I am not condoning the response, but you can't leave out the detail about armed rebels lauching attacks from the city. Both groups took advantage of the innocent victims!

[NGONGE]

^^ By that logic AMISOM are not guilty of shelling civilans in the Somali capital too, right?

 

P.S.

If you are not condoning the response, what exactly are you arguing about?

[Thankful]

I dont think AMISOM is guilty because they are fighting a group that dresses like civilians and launch attacks form populated area's. How many AMISOM soldiers are there, a few thousand? Even if there 10,000 they could not stand a chance without the support of a significant amoung to Somalis. They are definitely welcomed by many.

 

My other point is that Gen. Samatar never admitted to the crimes that his accuser say he did. What he did say is that armed rebels used the civilian populated city as shield and that the government wanted to stop them. I think he and the rebels should be investigated and many many others! All over the world this is taking place except Somalia.

[Castro]

^^^^ Explaining things to you is a thankless job, Mr. Thankful. You find this whole Samatar thing repulsive yet you want him and all others prosecuted? Well, somebody already beat you to Samatar. Pick up a catalog of former Somalia strong men from Xiin (he has a spare copy ) and select the one you wish to bring a civil suit against. Find out where he lives, contact a local law firm that would file the suit for you pro bono and pursue it all the way to that country's supreme court.

 

Don't just dismiss another man's crusade. Make your own.