what is salafiyyah? what do salafees believe and call to?

[Kafka on the Shore]

Assalaamu calaykum:

 

Thank you sister (Mizz_S.lander). This ducaa should be made for all of us inshaa Allaah as we're all Muslims and are seeking the Mercy of Allaah SWT. I just wanted to clarify a few of the points I have made in my previous post.

 

For those who thought I was implying that you SHOULDN'T have a problem with Cabdul Wahhaab: I can only say that I'm affraid you're wrong (sorry for the poor phrasing if that's what mislead you). If you have a problem with M. Cabdul Wahhaab, I respect that (as everyone is entitled to their own opinions since we reside in Western nations). All I ask of you, my dear sister Sakina, is that you ask yourself why you have a problem with him. If you find legitimate reasons, then you have every right to disagree with certain aspects of what he's done, or what he's said, etc... I am not here to defend him. Remember that you and I (and everyone on this site, I hope) shares a collective duty and responsibility to defend and protect the Qur'aan and sunnah. That's what we have in common, so let's bridge the gap between us by discussing what is common (and thus important) rather than less important issues such as Muxammad bin Abdul Wahhaab.

 

When I saw the first post and then read the subsequent posts of this topic, I saw a gigantic disaster. Allaah knows best whether or not the author of this topic has deliberately caused fitnah between the Muslims (such as you and I, Sakina, and Sahal, and Mizz_S.lander, and the rest of us). Since I don't know the contents of one's heart, I will assume (by default) that the author has unwillingly and mistakenly put up the article and thus wasn't aware of the subsequent problems it would create. I whole-heartedly believe that no evil intentions resided in her heart, and that this mess was rather unforseeable.

 

To all my brothers and sisters, let's look beyond the word 'salafi' and rather focus on our 'MUSLIM' brothers and sisters. If we're so willing to let Shaytaan divide us in this pitiful approach of his, then we are nothing but failures, all of us. But I trust that we're not failures. When I read your comments (most of you), I hear a sincere voice, a soul that loves Allaah SWT and his Prophet and holds Islaam dearer than anything else. Since we have that in common, let's increase our unity, and let's abandon ANYTHING that may weaken our unity. These are amongst the many things that will weaken our unity, and look at how trivial it is! Have any of us transgressed out limits to the point that we have become kuffaar? Of course not. And if we need to discuss such sensitive issues, then let it be done in the most respectful of ways, for the sake of our unity and love for one another (just for the sake of Allaah SWT).

 

I know that all of that I have said is nothing new. But reminder is exceptionally beneficial to humans since it is our nature to forget. Thus Allaah SWT has said:

 

"And remind! For verily, the reminding profits the believers!" (51:55).

 

I hope we'll stop being hostile to each other and start discussing with each other in a constructive fashion, inshaa Allaah. Sahal, Mizz_S.lander, Sakina and the rest of our wonderful bretheren: let's love each other now, will we?

 

Wassalaamu calaykum.

[Final_Say]

"let's increase our unity, and let's abandon ANYTHING that may weaken our unity".

 

subxanallah brother!! i do not agree with that, what are you willing to abandon for the sake for unity, wat does unity via abandoning things do for you in the hereafter. unity in islam is important, but not when it invovles abandoning ones believes and duty. as a muslim i have a duty to follow that which is right regardless of what the crowed follows, if this makes you an outsidere; and the rophet said it will then so be it; people the right paths have long being the outsiders, and the prophet (PBUH) said at the end of time, the people upon the right path will become "stangers" people will always judge them, too strict, too this or too that, humans are never happy, so make allah happy rather than a human being. unity with those on the right path and defend those who have made great contributions to islam, who are being attacked all over the world and acussed of things and called names.

but this does not mean i have to insult people, i respect people have their own views and even tjhough i think they are wrong and i'll show them why i think they are wrong, it does not make me rude; easy way of putting it, is i agree to disagree; i for one will never run my mouth up to the likes of abdual wahab, for the sake of unity, for i am benefited more form his work in islam then a SOL individual who is trying to educate them self and who has no place or status with the people of knowldge;

so in that sense i again disagree with you, and i think abdual wahab is important and you should not belittle him in this way;

 

inshallah we will unity on the correct path, not by insulting people of knowldge and unitying on sin;

 

maca salamah

[Kafka on the Shore]

Salaam Mizz_S.lander:

 

Ukhtee, you completely misunderstood me. But I will respect your right to disagree. First of all, I want you to show me where I'm belittling M. Cabdul Wahhaab. I haven't done so in any way, shape, or form. I just said that it's ok to disagree with ASPECTS of his actions, or his sayings. I never said that Kitaabut-tawxiid was full of nonsense ukhtee. Please carefully read my statements and please read them with objectivity and set emotions aside for a second inshaa Allaah.

 

Secondly, we as Muslims have a duty to unite and abandon anything (especially petty things) that will weaken our unity. If you look at the later sentences, you'll see that my eludication of that phrase (i.e. we should abandon anything that weakens our unity) refers to "Qatciyyaat" which are matters that are CLEAR CUT and are not open for DISCUSSION and RATIONAL ANALYSIS. That's why I cited an example by specifically referring to the fact that WE'RE NOT KUFFAAR or MUSHRIKIIN or we haven't done anything GROSSLY ERRONEOUS, so then why are we allowing for matters of relatively lesser importance (ex. discussing the greatness of M. Cabdul Wahhaab) get in between us? That's all I asked.

 

I will also call on you to remember a very important concept in Islaam: the concept that dictates IF you are trying to forbid evil, and in the process of forbidding that evil (or by forbidding that evil) you cause a GREATER evil, then it becomes xaraam for you to forbid that initial evil (I know that was confusing, but that's the most concise way I could put it). I think most of you know what I'm talking about with respect to that concept. So what is a greater evil? Stirring controversy by discussing the 'greatness of M. Cabdul Wahaab' with fellow Muslims who don't agree with you OR just leaving that aside for now and discussing more important issues such as WHY WE'RE SO DIVIDED OVER THESE RELATIVELY UNIMPORTANT ISSUES? By reiterating M. Cabdul Wahhab's greatness makes the confused 'salafi' (and I don't mean you Mizz_S.lander) NO DIFFERENT from the Xanafi who says: "Shaykh Abuu Xaniifah is great, and he didn't do anything wrong, blah blah blah." The point is: WHO CARES about whether or not these scholars erred or not. We know they're humans beings, and they all are capable or erring, so let's leave it at that. Besides, we're not amongst the people of knowledge, so we should especially avoid controversial issues that have no CRUCIAL relevance to Islaam.

 

There are sisters who walk without xijaab on the streets THINKING xijaab is not waajib, there are parents out there who don't teach their children salaah, there are brothers who don't know how to lower their gazes and think that is halaal, there are SO MANY MUSLIMS out there who don't know the essence of the Qur'aan or how to approach it in order to learn from it! So all I'm saying is why don't we dicuss these more important issues, thereby increasing our unity (since we share a common position regarding these ever-so-important matters)?

 

That is what I meant by abandoning anything (with specific reference to less important issues) that will divide our unity. Perhaps the following examples will clarify exactly what I mean to say:

 

The debate of xijaab and its conditions can be traced back to the times of the Saxaabah themselves. From the period of time, until today, respected scholars have come and gone, each with differential positions on this issue. If THEY, our marvellous scholars, haven't been able to agree AND EXPLICITLY set that aside to discuss the more important issues of Islaam, WHY CAN'T WE DO THAT, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE 1000 TIMES LESS QUALIFIED THAN THEY ARE? Similarly, let's stop talking about Shaykh X and Shaykh Y and how great he is and how erroneous he is and what not. That will do us no good. That is what destroyed the past nations, and that's what will destroy us now (if we're not already destroyed, but I'll leave that up to you to decide).

 

Now if we're discussing issues such as the coming of another prophet after the seal of prophets (SAW), THEN we can stand up for the truth, and THEN can we be considered strangers. The same applies in the case of Zinaa and alcohol and other matters that have been defined as QATCIYYAAT. If they're not Qatciyyaat, then do your part O my fellow Muslims and set our differences aside, or rather discuss them through constructive discussions rather than bashing each other for such petty issues.

 

I hope I have made myself more clear.

 

Wassalaamu calaykum

[Final_Say]

salam;

 

the discussion brother was not about abdual wahab, it was about salafiya, but it seems people think that the whole of salafiya is abdual wahab and the Saudi government, a mistake i tried to correct, by pointing out the irrelevance of both of these things in connection to our deen and practicing our deen, if you read my earlier post, i even said that people should read his work, take that which benefits them or that they agree with and leave the rest, but no one can say he had no contribution or he had a negative contribution, which is wat some people have being saying; i even said that he is not a prophet, and makes mistakes, don't attack him, ask allah to forgive him instead; it is better for you and for him! it is not a must for people to use his work in order to be muslims;

 

brother aristote; i get you example about causing fitnah, these people do not, most have a problem with understanding how salafi's can say obey your leaders as long as the do not infringe on ur deen, for u opposing them will cause a greater fitnah;

 

i will finish with this; one day the prophet (PBUH) was sitting with the saxaba and he took a stick a made a straight line on the ground, he said this is the straight path and these (many little lines coming out the original line) the paths of shiytan and would lead you way from the straight path; so stay on the straight path; this is not the words of the hadith but as i remember it; but the general meaning is the same;

 

maca salamah

[Sakina]

And to answer your question: "Whether or not Abdul Wahhaab had anything to do with the Saudi state or not is none of my concern. If you studied your history, and know with certainty that objective historians collectively agree this is true, then so be it.

If Ibn Abdul Wahhaab was an ordinary person like you and I and was one of the founder of the Saudi State then I would never question his actions. But he was a scholar, he was teaching Islamic ideology and principles people follow his interpretation of the Qur'an therefore we need to know who he was and what he did.

 

The debate of xijaab and its conditions can be traced back to the times of the Saxaabah themselves. From the period of time, until today, respected scholars have come and gone, each with differential positions on this issue. If THEY, our marvellous scholars, haven't been able to agree AND EXPLICITLY set that aside to discuss the more important issues of Islaam, WHY CAN'T WE DO THAT, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE 1000 TIMES LESS QUALIFIED THAN THEY ARE? Similarly, let's stop talking about Shaykh X and Shaykh Y and how great he is and how erroneous he is and what not.

Brother Aristote, I agree with you that the issue of hijab is importat but I disagree that to know the scholars is not important. My opinion is that a sister not wearing hijab effects her more than others but a scholar's teachings effects all muslims since he is going to issue matters related to the sharia.

 

Mizz_S Lander

as i have said i have not studied the hisory of sauid, but i am soon starting the the life of abdual wahab may allah bless him, if i find anything that will help you i would let you know inshallah

Thank you. Insha Allah I'll look forward to your replies. Only because I question his actions doesn't mean I dislike him. Every person who intends to research the muslims scholars should be praised and not accused of hatred. We need to understand that in these days of confusion and with so many madhabs the only way to find out the truth is to investigate the founders or scholars of the madhabs with open mindedness. Since you are starting to learn about the lives of the scholars I have only one advice for "Be Patient". I found out the more questions I asked the more I was the target of rage and wrath.

[Kafka on the Shore]

Salaam to all:

 

Alxamdullillaah, now at least we're becoming more civilized in discussing these controversial issues. Although no one has openly admitted their love for one another, I hope that that they have done so in their hearts. But I remind you that we have no ego to feed, we are Muslims and thus should have no pride whatsoever. I openly proclaim my love to all of you Muslims who are sincerely trying to attain jannah, and those who are tirelessly working to advance our deen by strengthening our unity. I hope this is a given for all of your as well.

 

My beloved sister Sakina, I understand your urge to find out who M. Cabdul Wahhaab is because he is a 'scholar' preaching Islaam. I understood that point. What I DON'T understand, however, is why you're so persistent in trying to find out who he is when ALL you need to know is that he contributed to Islaam with regards to tawxiid. I asked you before, and I'll ask you again to ask your scholars (the sincere ones who will respect the opposing opinion so long as they're wihin the bounds of Islaam) regarding his most famous work, Kitaabut-tawxiid, and see what they say regarding it. If they say that it has nothing against Islaam, and that it's a good book to reading regarding tawxiid, then take their advice and stop trying to find out who he is and what he did, and where he erred, etc... If you want to find that out for yourself, then be my guest. But please don't provoke the 'salafis' by discrediting him and exposing his mistakes and thus causing fitnah. Sure, he made mistakes, and it's true that we should acknowledge his mistakes. But as a wise Muslim, you have the responsibility to forsee that not every salafi is wise, and thus they will respond with emotion when you provoke them by attacking their figures they respect. That's not wise at all, so let's keep the peace and leave the controversy out UNLESS we're willing to discuss these manners in a civilized fashion. Imagine just how foolish I would be to enter upon a Xanafi masjid, and discuss certain weaknesses of Imaam Abuu Xaniifah... They would fiercy react to that (despite the fact that Imaam Abuu Xaniifah had some weaknesses). But do you see how foolish it is for me to bring that up, especially when it isn't even crucial to Islaam? All that should concern me is that Imaam Abuu Xaniifah made enormous contributions to Islaam (as have many scholars), and we should leave it at that inshaa Allaah. Similarly, Kitaabut-tawxiid is positive contribution to Islaam, so let's leave any other insignificant details out (so let's stop trying to find out who he is because he was a 'scholar'.... we know that his work is acknowledged by the scholarly community, so let's leave it at that inshaa Allaah). That is what I meant when I said: "Let's stop talking about Shaykh X and Shaykh Y and his mistakes and what not."

 

Hope this is more clear inshaa Allaah. Please sister Sakina, please don't misunderstand my statements. I completely respect your urge to find out about who M. Cabdul Wahhaab is, but there is a greater issue at hand... the issue of unity. Let's not be divided because of salafiya or bin Cabdul Wahhaab or anything else that is this insignificant COMPARED to the greater issues. If we were talking about figures such as Mizra Ghulam Ahmed who founded the Qadiyani religion, then that would be a totally different story. But keep in mind that bin Cabdul Wahhaab didn't come with a different religion, as Mizra Ghulam Ahmed did.

 

I hope this thread ends here because it has been the cause of unnecessary division between us. Let's remember the famous hadiith:

 

"There are seven whom Allaah will shade in His Shade on the Day when there is no shade except His Shade" and among them are those who "love each other for Allaah’s sake, meeting for that and parting upon that."

 

As since as you all are, I don't think we have done that at all. Let's end this thread here and discuss other issues that are more beneficial and productive inshaa Allaah.

 

Was-salaamu calaa manit-tabacal hudaa!

[Sakina]

Brother Aristote, Insha Allah I'll follow your advice and stop talking about the alliegiance of the founders of the Saudi State in this thread. Let's concentrate as you suggested on his work such as Kitab al Tawhid by Ibn Abdul Wahhab. Brother, have you read the book yourself? If yes could you elaborate on

 

Ibn `Umar (ra) informs us that he heard from the Prophet that on the Day of Judgement, Allah , Most Glorified, Most High, will fold up the seven heavens and take them in His right Hand and He will fold up the seven earth and take them in His left Hand and as He folds each of them, He will call forth the tyrants and the arrogant people, making them realise their insignificance by His Words: "I am the King." - i.e. He is the true Owner of all things; He is Perfect in every respect and there is no weakness or defect in Him and that all those who claim kingship or sovereignty are in fact weak and feeble, powerless in His Grasp. He will not be asked about what He does, but they will be asked.

 

Benefits Derived From This Hadith

 

 

1.

Confirmation of Allah's possessing two Hands, right and left.

2. Confirmation of Allah's Divine Attribute of Speech in a manner befitting His Majesty.

3. Confirmation of Allah's Name: Al-Malik (the King), from which is inferred His Ownership of all things.

4. Evidence that there are seven earths.

5. The forbiddance of tyranny and arrogance.

6. Evidence of Allah's Perfection and infallibility

He also says that Allah is above us, the Kursi is the resting place of the Feet of Allah, that the Arsh is above the water and Allah is sitting on it, he even says that Ibn Abbas confirms of Allah having a hand. It is all in Kitab Tawhid.

[sahal]

Sorry, Bros & Sis. I was busy these days and I realy missed some beneficial articles espicially from aristote.

 

As Bro. aristote asserted UNITY is more important than anything else. Unfortunately if someone in ADVANCED level of a group it's difficult to convince him/her to make some concessions for the sake of the UNITY of ISLAM.

 

As I said earlier I am not bonded to one group, i'm flexible MUSLIM (What Mz Slander disagreed) I take the knowledege from SALAFIS, from IKHWANS, from TABLIIGHS etc. I love them all for the sake of ALLAH.

I don't judge the Sheikh from which group he come from but for his VISION and his FEELINGS for ISLAMIC issues, some Sheikhs are only intrested in their group's affirs, those are the people I always avoid them regardless of their group.

 

there are some bad/good people in each group. if i don't believe this i'm BLIND and i have to ask ALLAH to open my EYES.

 

In conclusion, as Brother Aristote said, we've to forget the differncies and FOCUS the SIMILARITIES and the BIG ISSUES, otherwise we'll end up an empty circle.

[bint abee saeed]

assalaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullah

 

i'm terribly sorry, i know i said i would end with the posts but ukhtie sakina asked a very important question and i did not want to leave her confused. the issue with Allaah's name and attributes is a very important one.

Allaah says "there is nothing like unto Him, and He is The All Hearer, The All Seer. (42:11)

 

PLEASE visit this link to read the articles on Allaah's name and attributes.

http://www.troid.org/articles/aqeedah/tawheed/asmaawassifaat/

 

also ukhtie i do encourage you to read up on the biography of Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab, since a lot of confusion as been risen regarding him. I do believe it will benefit you since you don't know as much as you would like to know about him. it is important to read up the biographies of the scholars of islam. this will build trust, otherwise how will you study a book when you doubt the author (general statement-i dont intend that sakina doesnt trust ibn abdul wahaab)

also the biography of imaam Ahmed ibn Hanbal. this one brings tears to the eyes, particularly the trial he faced, and How he stayed firm. (try searching www.calgaryislam.com for this bio) also the biography of ibn taymiyah, and of course the saahabaa and the tabi'een.

 

for an audio on Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab click here http://www.troid.org/audio/seerah/thosewhofollowedthem/ibnabdulwahaab.htm

 

i understand what the brother aristroe is saying in regards to discussing more important things. and this is correct, our creed is the most important thing. that we actualise the shahaadah and have knowledge of tawheed and sunnah, and the correct aqeedah. this is why i posted this reply to sakina, because knowing the names and attributes of Allaah and believing in them and how they are supposed to be believed in is from tawheed. and i wish for her, as well as all the muslims exactly what i wish for myself. that Allah increase us in understanding of His deen.

 

the prophet sallaahu 'alayhi was salaam said:

none of you (truly) believes until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself"

 

and narrated mu'aawiyah that the prophet said: "if Allaah wishes good for someone He gives him fiqh (understanding) of the religion."

 

so may Allaah increase us in understanding. ameen

 

sakina perhaps we can exchange emails or something inshallah.

[Sakina]

bint abee saeed ,thank you for your kind reply. I never meant to offend anyone and I ask if I inadvertantly offended any salafi to forgive me.

I read the article on the site

http://www.troid.org/articles/aqeedah/tawheed/asmaawassifaat/

and these confirms that my believe on Allah's attribute is different from the Salafi and I thank you for your honesty. I read the biography of Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab, both from the salafi point of view and the non salafi. Since I could not be sure which one was right I started researching history and trying to match the facts on both sides by comparing them with historical facts. How it started out? Who was involved? What happened to the Arabian Peninsula especially to Makka and Medina? Who supported who and why etc. After doing a long research that took me believe me years I came to the conclusion that I would stick to the historical facts that agree with both sides and it all comes down to the leadership and the believe in Tawheed.

 

sakina perhaps we can exchange emails or something inshallah.

Yes I would like to exchange e-mails InshaAllah.

I hope we both follow what Allah tells us in the Qur'an (16:125)

Call unto the way of your Lord with wisdom and good exhortation, and reason with them in the best way. Lo! your Lord best knows those who go astray from His path, and He knows best those who are rightly guided.

[Kafka on the Shore]

Salaam, my dear bretheren!

 

I'm sorry for the long absence. This week is a tough week of exams for me, and won't be able to actively participate on the forum. In this very short message of mine, I would like to express the beauty with which all of you have spoken (bint abee saeed, Sakian, Sahal, and Mizz_S.lander). We have taken control of our souls, and come together for the sake of Allaah SWT and decided to discuss our differences in the most wise and peaceful of manners. Sakinah, I would also like to let you know (if you don't already know it) that the belief of Allaah's attributes that the 'salafi' (again, I'm using this loosely) believes in isn't something new that was brought by the 'modern salafi movement' but it was also held by the great Shaykh Axmad bin Xanbal (which must earn at least respect--not necessarily approval--from the rest of the Muslim ummah).

 

I can't provide the proofs for you right now as I'm extremely busy and would require hours upon hours of research and authentic verification (which would require me to visit scholars), but I'm sure our sincere sister bint abee saeed can kindly refer you to the appropriate pieces of evidence regarding Imaam Axmad's beliefs.

 

Inshaa Allaah, I hope that we too are following the stupendous message in the aayah of Suuratun-Naxl, as there is no other efficient way of conveying the truth.

 

Keep it up inshaa Allaah.

 

Assalaamu calaykum