what is salafiyyah? what do salafees believe and call to?

[Mutakalim]

لله اعمى يقود المبصرين ضحا**يمشي امامهم والمبصرون ورا

[sahal]

THE REALITY IS THAT THE UMMAH HAS SPLIT INTO DIFFERENT SECTS AND PARTIES. AND THE MESSENGER SAID THE SAVED SECT IS ONE AND THEY ARE THOSE WHO ARE UPON WHAT HIM AND HIS COMPANIONS ARE UPON. SO THIS IS THE SALAFI, HE IS A FOLLOWER OF THE SALAF.

Anyone can claim that they're on the way of prophet (S.A.W) and his companions(R.A), but where is your evidence?

 

What we're seeing on the ground is different these are some examples;

 

1. RIBA Banks in Makkah and Madinah

2. Corruption, Slavery, Denial for basic rights of those who are not Al-saud and many other injusticeS

 

3. in addition, Saudi Arabia is the only country that cannot defend its soil on its own despite the fact that it's the richest nation on earth (in terms of GDP per head). Her money could not buy her to defend her country ,

 

So, where is the SALAF way, were SALAF calling ROMAN and PERSIAN to defend their lands? on the contrary, they were threatning despite their poorness and backwardness. BUT THEY HAVE IIMAAN IN THEIR HEART NOT IN THEIR MOUTH

 

 

NOT LIKE THE SALAF CLAIMERS TODAY - CAKIIDA SAXIIXA :rolleyes:

 

 

These are the SALAF whom we know, DON'T TECAH US WHO WERE THEY So if you claim that you're IMITATING them be like them, not LIKE the KINGDOM ruling in Arabian Penisula.

 

Where the SALAFIS helping KUFARS against other MUSLIMS?

 

Is not sort of MOCK on our SALAF to say that Saudia is following our SALAF?

 

 

Were SALAFIS HAPPY and ENJOYING in their PALACES when millions of MUSLIMS are dying HUNGER and OPPRESSION from OPPRESSORS?

 

 

Do you think that people are so CRAZY to believe your RHETORIC speechs while you rely Uncle Sam on everything?

 

 

the people here in SOL are not kept quite because they confused or something like that but because they don't want to waste their time for CLAIMERS like your group who are getting some money from the KINGDOM in return to defend their kingdom.

 

 

Don't you know that there are many countries in this world (MUSLIM, KUFARS, RICH, POOR etc.) who never rely on others to defend their countries?

 

 

Why SAUDIA ARABIA alone? Where is the CAKIIDAH SAXIIXA?

 

Even Secular ARABS, like Libya, Syria, Egypt, Algeria enz. never rely on others to defend them! So Why CAKIIDA SAXIIXA alaone?

[sahal]

Just to add you this event.

 

When Saudi arabia won ASIAN footbal cup (I don't know how! my be they pay money etc.) in 90's, your King Fahad delivered the cup to the Saudi Team and said this quote:

 

"They said he Pick the cup and said this is the achievement of CAKIIDA SAXIIXA"

[bint abee saeed]

You missed the point: Salafies are followers of the salafus saaleeh, not saudi arabia.

 

point 8 and 9 are not subject to saudi arabia, but to all muslim governments, this sunnah was established when the messenger was alive not when saudi arabia became a kingdom.

 

i dont see why saudi is your main enemy, this is a country that has established laws of the shari'a in their court systems . you will not find a single church, sinigog, temple etc in the kingdom because tawheed is established. during prayer time it is illegal to buy and sell, and every man has to attend the congregation prayer.

what? are u waiting for cnn to tell u this?? are u waiting for cnn to tell that saudi was the largest single private doner to one of the 3rd world muslim countries? how do u know what they do with there money?

no, u based your info on heresay and desires.

akhie, not everyone is perfect, people are going to sin. what salafi agrees with riba in banks? we're calling you to follow the messenger and his companions, not to blind follow saudi arabia. whatever u state about saudi from this point on is irrelevant. we never said salafi is whatever the saudis are doing. not every saudi is salafi or righteous, just like the rest of mankind.

 

as for countries depending on others... do u know anything about economics and trade, and politics? besides if saudi opposes the sunnah in some of these affairs, it doesnt mean this is from salafiyyah.

 

 

[what i posted here in relation to the gulf war, i removed for fear of being mistakened or not having sufficient details. and i have repented to Allaah, incase i was being hasty, and in saying anything incorrect]

 

akhie stick to what is relevant. islam is a complete religion. the sunnah is complete and perfect. all harm, injustice, and crookedness is raised from it. so we call u to the sunnah, not to blind follow anyone except the messenger.

 

you asked what is your proof that this is the save sect. the prophet said the one group who will be saved from the fire are those who are upon what i and my companions are upon. this is salafiyyah. if u find someone doing something that they were not upon, then this is NOT from salafiyyah. and its not you who decides if something is from the sunnah or not because u dont have the knowledge to do so. so stick to the people of knowledge who know.

 

we are salafi, followers of the sunnah of prophet muhammad salallaahu 'alahi was salam, and his companions and the generations that followed them. we are upon what they are upon,

 

you are right everyone claims this, but it is the sunnah that decides if they are really upon this. the tabligi's and sufis says they are ahlul sunnah, but they worship graves, and engage in many innovations. the salaf werent upon this. therefore tabligi's and sufies cant be ahlul sunnah even if they say so, because they oppose the sunnah.... get it.

 

inshallahu ta'ala what i have stated is clear, and as the brother abo torab, this is also my last post. your affair is with Allaah.

[Sakina]

I have hoped that I could finally get some answers from the Salafi in this thread. Unfortunately it always ends up by having someone change the subject altogether. Allah know best.

 

For those of you who don't believe in Tawassul I urge you to ponder on the Qur'an verses.

 

"If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah's forgiveness, and the Messenger of God had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-Returning, Most Merciful." (5:64).

 

“O our father, ask forgiveness for our sins, verily we are sinners. He said: ‘Soon I will ask forgiveness for you from my Lord. Verily He is oft-forgiving, most merciful’.†(12:97-98).

 

“On that day shall no intercession avail except of him whom the Beneficent God allows and whose word He is pleased with†(20:109)

 

“And intercession will not avail aught with Him save of him whom He permits†(34:23)

 

“And how many an angel is there in the heavens whose intercession does not avail at all except after Allah has given permission to whom He pleases and chooses†(53:26)

 

“…And they do not intercede except for him whom He approves…†(21:28)

 

“And those whom they call upon besides Him have no authority for intercession, but he who bears witness of the truth and they know (him)†(43:86)

 

This is the time of confusion that the Prophet (saw) has warned us. He told us "What I most fear in my community is a man who interprets verses of the Qur'an out of context."

 

To mizz_s.lander and abu toraab I can only say that we have more similarities than differences and I hope we can respect each other's differences and keep our unity. I conclude with the poet's words

A loaf of bread can never be made, From a single head of wheat, But when gathered together and thrashed, It brings out all of its prosperity.

[sahal]

I have hoped that I could finally get some answers from the Salafi in this thread. Unfortunately it always ends up by having someone change the subject altogether. Allah know best.

Sis. Sakina I've asked them more questions that yours and they just picked the ones that suit them and left the REAL and the FUNDAMENTAL ones.

 

So, don't be so NAIVE, they'll not answer the FUNDAMENTAL ones, brcuse if they answer everybody will see who they're (although almost everybody here knows them) they don't want to WITNESS against them.

 

Just compare and contrast what they wrote in ONE article.

 

point 8 and 9 are not subject to saudi arabia, but to all muslim governments, this sunnah was established when the messenger was alive not when saudi arabia became a kingdom.

Remember No. 8 says "8. We worship Allaah by obeying the rulers, as long as they are Muslims who seek judgement through Allaah’s Legislation and who establish the prescribed punishments, and as long as they establish the prayer. Obeying them is an obligation even if they commit oppression. And whoever says something contrary to this and makes it permissible to revolt against the Muslim leader, even if he may be oppressive, then he is an innovator and a deviant. And it is obligatory on the Muslim scholars to refute this statement of his and to expose his deviance.

 

And No. 9 says "9. We hold that it is not permissible to spread the faults of the leaders, because doing this influences and brings about trials and afflictions (fitan), and causes them to spread."

 

Compare to this:

 

 

when did saudi seek help from the kufar against muslims??? i hope your not talking about iraq and sudam hussien the apostate. sudam hussien apostated to his ba'ath party, and their sologan is "there is no god but ba'ath" a'oodubillah.

he invaded kuwait, for what??, he killed muslims, took their wealth and ruined their land, for what? why dont u speak about sudam hussien then? the blood, wealth and honour of a muslim is sacred. and his regime was built by america, for many years america supplied suddam with weapons, and strengthen them. after he tried to invade kuwait he stood at the borders of saudi arabia.

Isn't laughable

 

 

Also compare between these two, perhaps this is more laughable than the first one:

 

You missed the point: Salafies are followers of the salafus saaleeh, not saudi arabia.

and in the same ARTCLE:

 

 

dont see why saudi is your main enemy, this is a country that has established laws of the shari'a in their court systems . you will not find a single church, sinigog, temple etc in the kingdom because tawheed is established. during prayer time it is illegal to buy and sell, and every man has to attend the congregation prayer.

what? are u waiting for cnn to tell u this?? are u waiting for cnn to tell that saudi was the largest single private doner to one of the 3rd world muslim countries? how do u know what they do with there money?

And she continued to say:

 

akhie, not everyone is perfect, people are going to sin. what salafi agrees with riba in banks? we're calling you to follow the messenger and his companions, not to blind follow saudi arabia. whatever u state about saudi from this point on is irrelevant. we never said salafi is whatever the saudis are doing. not every saudi is salafi or righteous, just like the rest of mankind.

But she couldn't deny that Saudi RELY America for hewr defence so, she tried to sex up and said:

 

there is a difference between making alligience with the kufar and seeking assistance. a big differenct akhie. when the messenger salaahu 'alahi was salam made hijrah to medina, who was it that helped him get to madina? was is not a mushrik(kafir?). the messenger did trade with the kufar, and had dealings with the kufar akhie. this is not alligience, this is trade and diplomatic relations.

Finally, with regard to the RELIANCE of America she told us that we don't know the MODERN system of the world (As SALAF didn't warn us the ALLIANCE with Kufar).

 

as for countries depending on others... do u know anything about economics and trade, and politics? besides if saudi opposes the sunnah in some of these affairs, it doesnt mean this is from salafiyyah.

If you can find all these contradictiions in one of their articles, what do you expect from their MANHAJ?

[Kafka on the Shore]

Salamun alaykum:

 

Please brothers and sisters, let us not talk about the petty details of the 'salafis.' And I use this term to describe a small segment of ahlus-sunnah wal-jamaacah for convenience, as every true Muslim would ideally love to only be called a Muslim. Sakina, I love the fact that you said we have more similarities than differences, so let's respect them. We should do exactly that, but I hope that you realize that there are many individuals from every madh'hab that break this rule, salafis included As for the truth regarding the true followers of ahlus-sunnah wal-jamaacah, TRUE salafis (who are no different than shaaficis, maalikis, etc...) DO NOT pledge their allegiance to King Fahad, etc... I really don't know where you got that from. This is not only degrading to your Muslim bretheren, but it also widens the bridge between you and your beloved bretheren.

 

Scholars are to be respected, but they aren't out prophets, nor are they our saxaabah. What the majority of these scholars have done is pledge their allegiance to Allaah SWT and His prophet (SAW). For those of you who don't know this (and it sounds as though our beloved Sahal doesn't, and please pardon me if I'm mistaken), the group of people commonly referred to as 'salafis' do not follow a certain scholar (ex. Albani, bin Uthaymeen, etc...) but rather the SUNNAH. These are extremists within the 'salafis' and it is well-known that extremists misrepresent groups of all kings. Dear Sahal, it seems as though you're exploiting this fact (regarding the extremist salafis who follow Albani as though he was the only scholar on Earth) to discredit the rest of the God-fearing salafis. The true Salafis believe that these 'salafi' scholars, just like any scholar, have a duty to relay information pertaining to Islaam as a whole. You'll also find that many of the 'salafis' are referred to by that name without their approval. I have been raised by a mainstream family, and I've never even heard of practise of unquestionably obeying immam Shaafic. I've always been taught that Islaam is derived from the Qur'aan and sunnah, and our precious scholars such as Shaafic and other that came later (ex. Ibn Kathir) teach us with an amazingly objective mentality. But when my friends learned of the fact that I was neither shiici, nor Maaliki, nor Shaafici, etc..., they automotically called me a salafi and wahabi and urged me to repent since I was erring! Many people act in this ignorant fashion, and I still don't see how I differ from them (as I pray like they do, I fast, and my core beliefs are directly from the Qur'aan and sunnah as shown by the Prophet SAW and practised by his Saxaabah).

 

Any good shaafici will know that the taqliid that is being practised today by many has never been approved by Shaafic himself.

 

Also, scholars like Ibn Qayyim al Jawzi and Imaam Shaafici are all scholars we follow and respect and love, DID THEY EVER PLEDGE THEIR ALLEGIANCE to King Fahad (I'm sorry, but I still can't see why you would mention something so provocative and unsubstantiated, dear)? The concept is simple: follow the Qur'aan and the sunnah, why are people making it so difficult?

[Kafka on the Shore]

Akhee Sahal,

 

I will remind you of the following verse. "Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and have disputations with them in the best manner." I hope that you will adhere to message presented in this aayah inshaa Allaah. Please don't use vulgar language and demean people, you will never be able to reach them even if you tell the truth.

 

With regards to the points posted, I don't know who this Shaykh is, and I don't know why he was so bold to proclaim this for all the Muslims. I don't know why anyone will deny that Saudia Arabia is ruled by an extremely corrupt group of people, and Allaah is well-aware of what they're doing. But please don't use this to generalize for all the 'salafis'... If you do this, then you're guilty of the ignorance like that of the western media when they refer to a sister wearing niqaab or a brother that has a beard as a fundamentalist (and they use fundamentalist and extremist interchangeably). So please be careful about the generalization.

 

Jazaakallaahu khayr,

 

Was-salaamu calaa manit-tabacal hudaa

[sahal]

Thank You very much Bro . Aristote for your Honesty ADVICE, and your subjective analyse. I appreciate.

 

Secondly, Bro. I never generalised SALAFIs, some of the Scholars I was defending were labelled as Salafis like Salman Al-awdah, Safar al-xawali, Abduraxman Abdulkhaliq and many others, So i think you missed the begining of these threads, Please look Salafi-dawa threads and how he was attcking different ULUMAS.

 

All may efforts was to defend ALL ulumas whether they were labelled SALAFIS or IKHWAANI ao TABLIIQI etc.

 

If you looj back at my threads I was using the word MUTASALIFAH which, means those who pretending to be SALAFIS, so I never generalised Salafis i was just mentioning those who publicly said we ahve ALLEGIANCE to Fahad etc.

 

Thirdly, what makes me angry,and almost everybody else here, they're posting ABUSIVE article and if you asked them question they're jumping to another article SO, you don't know what to do other than to tell their decieves and tricks and to expose their hidden agendas.

 

Many times I begged them to answer some questions but instead they posted new abusive articles.

 

Finally, I will let you to ask them some of quetions I asked and we'll see if they answer.

[Final_Say]

salam people

 

brother salah;

firstly from what i can see, and especially from what you have written in your last couple of post, i can see very little that we agree on; as i always said you are entitle to your views, I respect that;

 

i am amazed the change that can take place in a couple of weeks, 3weeks ago i left you guys debating the same thing; fair enough i have seen many comments that are simple uncalled for, that are absurd, abusive and have no basis to any group let alone the salifya!

 

however from the knowledge that you have demonstrated in certain threads SAlAh, i am disappointed by some of your comments and attacks; i did not see you as one who results to childishness, making assumptions about people, and then to make it worse disrespecting ppl, by the way your pick their articles apart and by the way you use the information that they gave to you to give you a better understanding; this does not mean that you can not point out things, you can do that, you always did that; and it is fine, but whatever happened that i missed in the last couple of weeks, there has been a change in your tone of speech, your approach, and your basic manners; even if we can't agree on the big things i expect us to agree on the simple things like Islamic manners or even basic manners; you are also acting like people who respond on this thread and others to defend salafiya or say stop eating them alive has the exact same view as the other!! Well this is not the case, people are different, they speak for their view, you can compare and contrast and say the article said this while this said that, or this point here contradicted with this point here, if there was complete agreement on anything in life then life would be easy; also it is important that you keep things in their original context, taking them out of context changes the meaning.

 

in any case I had hoped that through this debate we can better educate our self in our understanding of what we each follow or claim to follow;

 

sister sakina;

 

I find it hard to answer your questions; one because they are difficult questions in their nature and I’m still learning, two because you have so many questions that are tangled up, and I do not know which one to answer and three, most of them seem to be entangled with history and the Saudi government; which has no relevance to me; I do not worship salafiya, so I do not need to know everything about them, I do not see the relevance of me studying about the link they have with the Saudi family, this that the other, it does not benefit me in my deen, I follow Mohammed, the sunnah and the quran and I try and find out the most about that:: I also do not see my self fit to judge the salafiya which have been mentioned and comment on the correctness of their actions, conflicts and rulings, neither do I think it is my business to do a critic of them or challenge them, for allah knows best, and every person does what they think was right at the time based on the conditions that surrounded them, many of the things you mentioned are big things and decisions about them would not have been made lightly!!

All humans make mistakes, and this includes salafi ulum’s, each one of them has always said if you find correct evidence which does not agree with that which I have ruled and follow the evidence and not me, hence rather than busying my self with finding faults and judging them, I take what is beneficial and I leave that which is not relevant to me at the time. A salafi shik said does not equal the prophet said, and can be wrong!

 

The last thing I want say to you all is that, there is not a new deen, the deen is the same and the message is always the same, but it is how you follow the message and how you perfect your actions that will benefit you and will get you to paradise to you all inshalla, how you do it and how you go about this perfection of your religion is up to you as an individual, it is you who has to past the test, not a shik, so always check what you follow is inline with the quran and sunnah, your means of doing that is up to you, I use reliable sources of the salafi, this is what I choose;

 

NB: the people who respond in these threads are not necessarily (most definitely) including me are not saflaiyia themselves, but are instead just trying to follow the examples of the good people , the prophet and the three generations that followed, they are not people of knowledge and their views does not necessarily mean that is what salafi ulum’s follow, but an opinion expressed by a normad; hence why the ARE CONTRADICTIONS ON THE INFORMATION EACH MAY USE, DEPENDING ON THEIR VIEW, AS SALAH HAS HELPFUL POINTED OUT in his name calling thread, SOME OF THEM GOT THEMSELVES IN A TWIST;

So people when you state something, make it clear it is your view!!

 

My last words to you all are; you do not learn, and grow through attacking those that are deemed as ulum’s, you do not reach your peak of understanding islam by following everything and everybody, question things, and find the ~EVIDENCE and remember pointing out dead peoples mistakes does not help them and it hinders you by causing you to sin;

 

Maca salamah;

 

May Allah forgive me for anything that I have said which is incorrect or hurtful to people, and may Allah forgive us and guide us all; Amen

[Sakina]

NB: the people who respond in these threads are not necessarily (most definitely) including me are not saflaiyia themselves, but are instead just trying to follow the examples of the good people , the prophet and the three generations that followed

People are confused with the salafi madhab and the salafi (the three generations). The salafi madhab's founders were Abdulwahhab and Saud. That is what I am trying to point out here that these people are not the same and the salafi madhab of today started calling themselves salafi only about 30 years ago. Why they choose the name salaf? What was the reason behind calling themselves salafs? Why they needed to be called differently than Ahlulsunna wa jammah?

 

I follow Mohammed, the sunnah and the quran and I try and find out the most about that::

How can we follow the Qur'an and the sunnah if we don't want to learn about Islamic History. How can we follow the salafi madhab of today if we don't want to investigate who their leaders are? Even Prophet Mohammad (saw) had to prove his honesty when the order came to proclaim Allah' message.

 

The Prophet (SAWS) climbed Mount Safa one day and called out to all the Quraysh gathered there, "Have you ever heard me tell a lie?" With one voice they replied that they had not. Upon which the Prophet said, "If I tell you that there is hidden behind this mountain a large army ready to attack you, would you believe me?"

 

"Certainly," they all replied, "for we have never heard you tell a lie."

 

Then the Prophet gave them the message of God, and exhorted them to give up idolatry, shun all kinds of evil, and to follow the path of righteousness.

 

He continued to say: "Well! I now tell you important news. O Banu 'Abdu Manaf, O Banu Taym, O Banu Makhzum, O Banu Asad . . . O assembled Qurayshites, redeem your own souls, for I can do nothing for you in God's presence . . .. Listen to what He commanded me to tell you…"

[Final_Say]

SIS, DON'T GET IT TWISTED AND DON'T MISUNDERSTAND ME; i personally said the SAuid history in terms of the detail you like to talk about does not interest me, at all; i never said islamic history, everyone needs to learn the life of our prophet and his followers; but for some it is the most they need to know; the details you are going into are not necessarily benefical to a muslim person in regard to their deen; maybe for general knowldge; as for the prophet; it is because 1) he was talking to non muslims and 2) he come with something new!! and also to show that true feelings before he told them to change their traditions;

 

maca salamah

[Sakina]

The people who follow the salafi madhab follow the teachings of Sheikh Mohammed Bin Abdul Wahhab. I am going to quote again King Fahad's speech:

 

Muslims have been happy with the Sharia of Islam ever since it came to rule their affairs and daily lives. In modern history, the first Saudi State was founded on the basis of Islam more than two and a half centuries ago, when two pious reformers, Imam Mohammed Bin Saud and Sheikh Mohammed Bin Abdul-Wahhab (may God have mercy on their souls!) committed themselves to it.

About this thread I am asking myself What questions were answered? Which are as yet unanswered? Since it seems I cannot get a simple answer to any of my questions. I am not sure if you are saying that the salafis of today founded by Sheikh Ibn Abdul Wahhab and the original salafs (the first three generations) are the same. If that is the case then I would disagree and I would like you to comment on the speech of King Fahad. Was Sheikh Ibn Abdul Wahhab co-founder of the Saudi State. Just a simple yes or no answer please. If yes please give us the reasons for supporting the Sauds. If the answer is no then why the salafis are not condemning this speech?

 

O you who believe! Stand out for justice, as witnesses to Allah, and even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor.] (An-Nisaa’ 4:134)

[Kafka on the Shore]

Assalaamu calaykum wa raxmatullaahi wa barakaatuh,

 

Sakina, I respect your right to question (not deny) anything that doesn't make total sense to you, and ask for clarifications and evidence where the need may arise. But I still don't understand what being a salafi has ANYTHING to do with Muxammad bin Cabdul Wahhaab and the Saudi family. Can't you take what the sister told you? Wasn't her statement clear enough, her statement that describes her care for the Qur'aan and sunnah and nothing else?

 

If you call yourself Shaafici, Maaliki, Tabliighi, etc... that is besides the point. And similarly, if someone calls himself or is called a salafi, that is also besides the point. All the matters is for one to follow Islaam = Qur'aan & Sunnah. Haven't you ever seen a God-fearing, pious, lovely salafi people? God knows where you live and who you live with, perhaps with monsters who call themselves salafis but don't know anything about what the true 'salafis' call for. Again, I must reiterate the fact that I'm using the term 'salafi' for convenience, it's a loose term which I am currently using to describe people who don't completely ascribe themselves to one madh'hab, or don't believe in a 'middle man' when they're making ducaa to Allaah SWT (i.e. they call upon Allaah SWT alone), etc... So don't generalize for everyone ukhtee, don't demean the rest of the 'salafis' in the World just because you came across some few bad apples.

 

Remember that doing that isn't the least bit fair. There are bad apples everywhere, and that's a fact that can't be ignored by anyone with a sane mind.

 

As for your questions, they're quite irrelevant (please don't take offense to this, as I don't mean to offend you at all). I don't see what the Saudi state has anything to do with the 'salafis.' In fact, I don't see what the Saudi state has anything to do with Islaam whatsoever?!?! I will call on you to carefully analyze this following beautiful verse, where Allaah SWT describes one of the crucial traits of ULUL ALBAAB, or the PEOPLE OF UNDERSTANDING:

 

"Those who listen to the word, THEN FOLLOW THE BEST THEREOF; those are they whom Allah has guided, and those it is who are the PEOPLE of understanding."

 

Just because I chose to read Abdul Wahhaab's book on Tawxiid doesn't make me is slave, nor does it mean that I must pledge my allegiance to him. The man is only human, as he commits mistakes, and so does the rest of humankind. The PEOPLE OF UNDERSTANDING read works like these (Kitaabut-tawxiid) with a critical mentality, ready to FILTER ANYTHING that goes against the Qur'aan and the sunnah, because Allaah SWT said: "Those who listen to the word, then follow THE BEST THEREOF." Talk to any sound scholar who has knowledge about tawxiid, and inquire about this book authored about Abdul Wahhaab. They may hate him with a fierce passion, but they will acknowledge that it's a good book that teaches any Muslims the essentials of Tawxiid.

 

I will call on you to remember that way before the Saudi state was created, great scholars that were respected by Islam's intellectual community (Ibn Katheer, author of one of the greatest tafseer compilations, and a countless number of muxadditheen such as Shawkaani, Axmad ibn Xanbal, Ibn al-Qayyim, etc...) would now be referred to people like you as 'wahhabis' but the truth is they had nothing to do with Muxammad bin Aabdul Wahhaab.

 

Also, a group that called themselves Ahlud Hadiith was on the Indian subcontinent centuries before the Saudi state was created and they would ALSO be classified as 'wahhabis' by people such as yourself. In fact, some historians say that it was they that brought the shariicah into India/Pakistan because, before then, only extreme forms of sufism (where people would just wander into the woods, seclude themselves from the community, etc...) where being practised, but this has divided the historians as not all of them agree with this view. Nevertheless, the point is that 'SALAFIS' HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SAUDI STATE, so why are you asking these irrelevant questions my dear sister?

 

Now do you see that this 'wahhabism' is just a derogatory term? Now do you see that this isn't a a new madh'hab? Only if you knew more salafis, you would see that many of them actually follow one of the 4 great imaams in all aspects except for the issues where clear evidence from the sunnah supercedes the opinion of a scholar. I will kindly advise you to look into the WHOLE PICTURE of Islamic history, not just the bits and pieces thereof you appear to be inviting us to explore. I will also kindly ask you to get to know more salafis, and you are bound to meet the good ones inshaa Allaah. The good ones won't even call themselves salafis, because it's not accurate to call a Muslim anything other than 'Muslim.' Again, I used this term loosely, so please take careful note of that. Generalizations based on the bad apples is nothing short of ignorance, so I hope you're not doing that inshaa Allaah.

 

And to answer your question: "Whether or not Abdul Wahhaab had anything to do with the Saudi state or not is none of my concern. If you studied your history, and know with certainty that objective historians collectively agree this is true, then so be it. But I still don't see how this has anything to do with me as a Muslim. I don't know anything about Saudi Arabia, and I don't care to know anything about it. I only care about the two holy cities, and besides that, I view the Saudi state no better than the Pakistani, Indian, Somali, Sudani, or any other state in the world."

 

Hope that answered your questions. I'll leave you (not just you Sakina, but all of us) with a reminder regarding the dangers of baseless and groundless generalizations (which are nothing short of suspicions): Allaah SWT said,

 

"O you who believe! avoid most of suspicion, for surely suspicion in some cases is a sin" (49:12). The lesson here is, unless we're sure of something, and our lives doesn't depend on it, we should be silent regarding that matter. We're not sure that every 'salafi' is the monster you have probably met, just as I am not sure every 'shaafici' is the ***** I have met, so I can't assume (and thus shouldn't assume) that every 'shaafici' or 'salafi' is of such and such a type.

 

Wassalaamu calaykum.

[Final_Say]

salam all;

brother aristote may allah bless you and increase ur understanding; you have hit the nail in the head and summed up the main points i have been trying to convey through out this section;

 

sister sakina; it seems to me, and i maybe be wrong that the main issue u as a person to adress is your dislike for abdual wahab, because of his so called support from the sauid, because of your dislike of the sauid government and events that occured during his life time; as i have said i have not studied the hisory of sauid, but i am soon starting the the life of abdual wahab may allah bless him, if i find anything that will help you i would let you know inshallah; as for king fahad's speech, i don't see the harm in it; there are many other things that have been said about abdual wahab that they just leave it and don't brother condeming.

 

as for your eariler question of why salafiya and not just ahalul sunnah waal jaamac; everybody claims to be followers of ahalul sunnah waal jaamaca; every misguided group, every political group; so the uluma's said that salafiya should not be used as a group name, but as a describtion of what you are practicing, your intentions and interest; to follow the prophet and his followers and being upon today what they was upon then;

 

maca salamah