Muslim ideals and a non-Muslim politician

[BiLaaL]

Even though i don't reside in America, i am a student of american politics and follow it quite closely(both the good and bad). Unfortunately the 'bad' easily outweighs the 'good' in the current political situation, with Senator Kerry not differentiating himself from Bush atleast in foreign policy. The recent democratic convention held in Boston, did throw a suprise in Barack Obama, Obama's father coming from our corner of the world in east africa(kenya). Most commentators agreed that his speech was easily the best, given at the convention, out-gunning even the likes of Bill Clinton and Kerry running-mate John Edwards.

 

Check out the full speech http://www.dems2004.org/site/apps/nl/newsletter3.asp?c=luI2LaPYG&b=131063 - choose Barack Obama from the list of transcripts.

 

Here is an interesting take on that speech from iviews.

 

On July 27, Democratic U.S. Senate candidate from Illinois Barack Obama gave one of the most inspiring speeches of the Democratic National Convention recently held in Boston. I dare say that the speech was more inspiring than that of the Democratic Presidential Nominee, Massachusetts Senator John Kerry. His speech began by expressing his deep gratitude for the privilege of addressing the DNC. His assent to the spotlight of the 2004 DNC is truly remarkable, and Obama told the gathered faithful that, "Tonight is a particular honor for me because, let's face it, my presence on this stage is pretty unlikely."

 

Yet, his rise from "a skinny kid with a funny name" to president of the Harvard Law Review to Illinois U.S. Senate candidate for the Democratic Party was not the most remarkable aspect of his speech. It was the ideals he espoused, the principles he advocated. They were Islamic principles and Muslim ideals, despite the fact that the only thing remotely Islamic about Barack Obama is his first name, which comes from the Arabic barakah, or "blessing."

 

He spoke about the premise of our nation "summed up in a declaration made over two hundred years ago, 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal. That they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights. That among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.'" He spoke about how America can do better: better by preventing the bleeding of jobs overseas; better by providing healthcare to those who can not afford it; better by encouraging personal responsibility on the part of American citizens but still making sure everyone in America has a fair chance at getting ahead.

 

The most basic premise of his speech is that, as he most eloquently put it: "If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief-I am my brother's keeper, I am my sisters' keeper-that makes this country work. It's what allows us to pursue our individual dreams, yet still come together as a single American family. 'E pluribus Unum.' Out of many, one."

 

I am my brother's and my sister's keeper. Barack Obama might as well have quoted this verse from the Qur'an: "And serve God and do not associate any thing with Him; And be good to parents, to the near of kin, orphans, the needy, the neighbor of (your) kin, the alien neighbor, the companion in a journey, the wayfarer, and those whom your right hands possess; surely God does not love him who is proud, boastful" (4:36). That "child on the South Side of Chicago who can't read," that "senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent," they are the "neighbors" about which the Qur'an speaks. If we neglect these fellow Americans, then we abandon the command of God to treat them kindly. In fact, God has included in our wealth sustenance for those who are less fortunate: "And in their wealth and possessions is the right of the needy and deprived" (51:19) As Muslims, especially American Muslims, we can never forget this.

 

"In the end," Barack Obama concluded, "that is God's greatest gift to us, the bedrock of this nation; the belief in things not seen; the belief that there are better days ahead. I believe we can give our middle class relief and provide working families with a road to opportunity. I believe we can provide jobs to the jobless, homes to the homeless, and reclaim young people in cities across America from violence and despair. I believe that as we stand on the crossroads of history, we can make the right choices, and meet the challenges that face us." These ideals are Muslim ones, spoken most eloquently by a non-Muslim politician. This struggle is our struggle, and as Muslim Americans it is our duty to help make this country better for all. We simply can not shirk our responsibility. We simply can not.

[Truth Seeker]

Its interesting how when somebody talks about establishing Khilafah that they are accused of being in some fantasy world - yet when some Muslims take part in Kufr Politics saying they are going to change the system from within it is percieved as realistic.

 

A position of 0.0001 of the senate and they think they are going to change things, yet mention Khilafah where we have 1.6 billion Muslims your told its impossible.

 

This shows that Muslim thought has been infected by these kufr ideas and how they have distanced Islam form the people to make it seem an impossible reality. Yet allow them to beleive that kufr political participation will solve their problems.

 

Who's telling who what? come on people can we not solve our own problems with out turning to the "solution" offered to us by the Kufr.

[NGONGE]

This shows that Muslim thought has been infected by these kufr ideas and how they have distanced Islam form the people to make it seem an impossible reality. Yet allow them to beleive that kufr political participation will solve their problems.

 

Who's telling who what? come on people can we not solve our own problems with out turning to the "solution" offered to us by the Kufr.

People argue with you guys (The Hezb) because you talk about Khilafa but you’re doing it in the Western world! Your message is commendable but makes little sense to the man in the street. Let me take a leaf from your book and give you a historical example: In the early days of Islam, the prophet (csw) brought the people of Mecca the message from Allah (sw). The message was about forsaking The Lat, The Cuza and Hobal! It was about believing in one GOD. He explained and demonstrated to people why they should not believe in simple statues they’ve constructed themselves. He showed them how silly this whole thing is and revealed to them the greatness of Allah. He did it in their own language (a language that they were very proud of and thought nobody could match). The holy book came down in their own language, it was better “written†and delivered than a million poems and “Mocalaqaatâ€. If a man’s greatness was measured by how articulate (Baleegh) he was, then the holy book demonstrated the greatness of the creator of man. In addition, Islam offered a viable alternative to the Jahiliyah practices. People believed in it because it told them that in Allah’s eyes there is no difference between people of different races, creeds or colours. It gave them clear instructions on how to live their lives. From the first minute the prophet received the first “Ayah†to the time of his death, Islam kept on demonstrating to people the greatness of Allah and proving that it’s the best way for any human being to live their lives by. The beauty of it all is that it was done in a very disarming way. There was hardly any anger, coercing or drum banging. The attitude was, “This is the message, take it or leave it. We believe in the greatness and oneness of the Allah, we hope that you’ll see the light and join us in our belief but if you don’t, it’s your choiceâ€.

 

Now, even though the Muslims lived amongst these Kaafirs, they didn’t try to antagonise them with rants about how superior Muslims were and how awfully deluded and utterly ****** Bani Qureesh were. Instead, they tried to show them the right way by their actions, words and the visible harmony in the then very small Islamic society.

 

The moral of this story is that if Muslim Americans want to take part in American politics therefore furthering the message of Allah and ensuring that Islam reaches all, why should they not do it? They’ll be doing a lot more than Hezb Al Tahrir, which seems to be happy with 1.6 Billion Muslims and is not displaying any signs of wanting to increase that number by gaining more converts. It rather appears to want to stay as a dreamy political party that resembles an angry young kid, who shouts about what he thinks is the right way, yet does nothing to prove it or reach that end.

[Paragon]

NGONGE, let me do alittle calculation sxb.

 

If, 1.6 billion = 0, then,

1.6 + 1 = 0 +1

So, though 1 is added, still the substance is not altered.

 

Now, if out of 1.6 billion, 100 with substance is created, the caculation will be;

 

100,000 + 1 = 100,001 substantive muslims.

 

If converting more muslims is your argument, then, it doesn't change much. First work with what you have, then increase the good you have generated by converting more.

 

Maybe, and I say maybe, the hizb at taxriir have a good arguement this time.

[NGONGE]

That’s the thing though, J. They don’t have an argument. Their only argument is the Khilafah. How to get to that? How they propose to achieve it? They never said. It’s all great speeches and criticisms of any efforts others make but they do not offer any practical and material solutions. They berate the West and anyone dealing with the West when the majority of them are based in the West! Read the exchanges I’ve had with Truth Seeker in the past few days and point out the Hezb’s good argument.

 

This is in no way a personal attack directed at Truth Seeker. It’s an attack on Hezb Et Tahrir. It’s either a phoney party or they’re in dire need for a communications director to relay their message to the masses.

[Paragon]

NGONGE, I think they are relatively a new group and time needs to be granted to them before we can learn their methodologies. Maasha-Allaah, the brothers do endeavour to inform many university and college students of western residence. It will be a sin to me to judge them now, however, you can expect of them to provide explanation of the ways in which they intend to achieve their goals.

 

PS: Hopefully, brother Truth-seeker will enlighten us with more about the strategies and methodologies of Hizb-at-Taxriir.

[codetalker]

Who are the Hizb-al-Taxtiir?

[Conscious Manipulation]

NGONGE

I understand your frustration with HT, it seems from reading their material their methodology seems vague.Then again, to be honest, I have not taken the time to fully understand how they intend to achieve their stated goal (the Khilafah) up until now I've been content to just reading their polititcal analysis.

 

I too hope, as Jamal said, that TruthSeeker here will take the time to fully explain the party's methodology.

[Truth Seeker]

Frankly i am disapointed with Ngonge, i have written on numerous occasions the three stage methodology that the the prophet (saw) used to estyablish the state, culture, create public opionion, seek the authority from those with influence and rule. This is the method of hizb ut tahrir, never once have you challenged this or bought a counter argument.

 

What are your specific issues, read a sample of the books of the party on www.1924.org, these are the ones translated - just look at the depth of the culture - how can you say its vague.

 

If you have specific issues raise them but lets not make general statements that portray the hizb in a negative light which can influence people against them when they are undertaking a noble task.

 

I dont mean dont question, but lets not make statements whilst we dont have the knowledge.

 

The specific book on methodology is " The Method to Establish the Khialfah State" avalible under books at www.1924.org.

 

If you have specific issues raise them, lets hear your solution?

[Truth Seeker]

THis discussion is open to everyone, i try to keep my posts as short as possible. However if there are any points that you require more detail on then i am happy to oblige.

 

I will attempt to answer the question or find out the answer.

[NGONGE]

Truth Seeker,

 

I admit that you’ve written and tried to explain the methodologies of the Hezb, saaxib. But, these explanations were not enough, which is why I’m pushing you to reveal more.

 

Whenever something new happens in the Muslim world, the Hezb write article after article about the importance of the Khilafa! I’m trying to give the Hezb the benefit of the doubt and attribute that rhetoric to vagueness and miscommunication. I’m hoping that the Hezb’s main emphasise is not really the Khilafa but what the actual Khilafa entails. I’m hoping that you’ll confirm this in your future replies.

 

I check and read the Hezb’s website regularly, I sift through many of the articles there in the vain hope that I’ll find something, that will convince me why I should be supporting the Hezb and not the many other Islamic movements. Alas, I found nothing there to convince me, yet.

 

You ask me to challenge the Hezb’s methodologies; I think that’s all I’ve been doing for the past few days. Not because of some evil vendetta against the Hezb, but because I’m tired of all the nonsense.

The Hezb has a message, it’s trying to convince people that their message is the right one but it’s not showing us how they’re going to achieve those goals!

 

Lets start again, saaxib. Can you explain to me (and other interested parties), in simple, unambiguous or elusive English, how does the Hezb plan to deal with the problems currently facing the Muslim ummah? If you choose to say Khilafa, fine. Just explain (in layman’s terms) how the Khilafa will be established and what should we do if the establishment of the Khilafa is delayed by a day to two?

[African]

1st of all Assalamu calaykum to all.....I've been away for 4 months....been to homeland.

 

NGONGE, I think they are relatively a

new group

and time needs to be granted to them before we can learn their methodologies.

J11, HT are not a new group (perhaps to SOL), my memory escapes me and I forgot the name of the founder, but it was sometime in the 40s that this man broke away from Al-Ekhwanul Muslimeen (Muslim Brotherhood), probably he was frustrated with their methodology of change from bottom up and instead wanted to introduce the khilaafa

(top down, reminds me of the Somali peace conferences, establishing a government, before achieving peace and stability.

 

Omar Barki Mohammed (OBM) was the founder of HT in the UK back in the late 80s early 90s, so again they are not a new group in the west too. Sometime in late 90s OBM broke away from HT and formed Al-Muhajarun, because he and his deputy along with many members did not see an eye to eye as to the correct methodology in establishing Khilaafa.

 

Many of you have seen Al-Muhajarun on TV but never seen or heard about HT for the last 5 years (we the older grannies remember HT very well), because their methodology is not that of OBM's.

 

Though I have never joined HT I have learnt a lot from them and they have my utmost respect. In fact though I don't agree with their methodology, I have a great friend who's still a member of HT (one of the early members). My point being that we should put our differences aside and agree to disagree and face our common enemy from the same side.

 

That's all falks.

 

PS: how do i get my picture back on, the flag is wearing me down.

[NGONGE]

Quick Hezb Et Tahrir history (from various sources)

 

HT was established by Taqi ud-Din an-Nabahani in Jordan in 1953. He was a Palestinian judge and an Al Azhar graduate. They’ve been established in the West for decades now. They’re banned from most Muslim countries. They broke off from The Muslim Brotherhood. Al Muhajeroon (Omer Bakri’s group) is an offshoot of HT.

[Truth Seeker]

The Hizb ut Tahrir objective is to resume the Islamic Way of Life through the Establishment of the Khilafah State.

 

The fact of the matter is that EVERY problem the Muslims face is due to the absence of a state that rules by Islam:

 

- Poverty,

 

capitalistic economics are in place that allow the rich to get richer and the poor poorer and allow the exploitation of poor countries, this will only be solved when the whole economic system is uprooted and replaced with the Islamic model which will collect revenue based on those that have rather than those that do not have. The economic problem of scarcity will be shown to be flawed because peoples basic needs (food, shelter, clothing) are not unlimited and resources are available to satisfy these.

 

This economic system will not be in place until Islam is in a governing structure: Khilafah. Yes in the mean time you can give monies to charities that look to provide people but how many people are you going to clothe, feed, etc… this is the duty of a state not its citizens. So the only solution is a state.

 

- Occupation of Land,

 

the enemies of Islam are attacking us and our governments are not using our armies to protect us (the Muslim Ummah as a whole). Yes we can individually go and fight and maybe kill a few of the enemy and prevent a few sisters from being raped but who are we going to decide to save. The solution is a state that uses its miltary to defend its citizens and prevent all the rapes not some.

 

Again this will only happen when we have a leader that rules by Islam and sees his duty is to protect the honour of the Muslims: Khilafah.

 

- The Muslims do not practice Islam,

 

Yes individually we can give dawah and get a few people to practice Islam, but wee will not change a society because its predomniate thoughts are kufr and that is what people will live their lives by. A simple example gays are tolerated in society because it has become accepted to be gay so you will not attack somebody for being gay because you know society will protect him and defend him. Likewise when you go to a job interview you where a suit because that’s what society expects that is the norm, you don’t where some shorts and a t shirt. People live there lives accroding to what society tells them what is acceptable.

 

Therefore Muslims do not pratice Islam because it is not normal to pray five times a day rather it is expected to sit in front of the tele. Yes you will be able to convice a few but society will never be changed this way because you will always be fighting a predominate thought which is kufr. Therfore you need to have a society that allows the predominate thought to be Islam, so every where you go Islam is visualised and at prayer times everything stops and people pray (e.g. can be seen in Saudi), people will then practice Islam because it is the norm and wont go agaist this because they will not want to be the odd one in society.

 

Again this will only happen when you have Islam applied entirely in society: Khilafah

 

The Examples are endless, look at a problem yourself look for its root cause, not the symptoms on the surface. Think of a problem ask yourself why it happens, you will break it down, but these are just symptoms, keep asking why does it happen and you will get to the root of the problem. You need to solve the root of the problem because tackling the symptoms will not eradicate the problem. Absence of Islam is the root problem – all other problems are symptoms of this root.

 

E.g Muslims don’t practice Islam because they have no conviction of Islam a superficial analysis here would be we need Iman, but if we question further and look into why peole have no conviction we find that society does not promote Islam but promotes kufr so society says do whats easy why pray when you can watch a film. Whereas a socety that reminded you of Allah whereever you went and Islam was everrywehre you would have people practicing Islam.

 

Allah (swt) says in the Quran, when Islam is establshed you will see the people flock to it – why because it surrounds you in society and is the focus in peoples lives.

 

This is why the Hizb always says we need Khilafah – we do not look at dealing with symptoms but rather the root cause. Look at the west they are typical at attempting to colve symptoms such as teenage sex, oh it’s a lack of education, not that the fact that sex is pushed everywhere in society and people are told you are free and do what pleases you, so the fundamental problem is freedom not education. The West does not do this because it will not challenge its system.

 

Yes the rhetoric of Khilafah can become tedious but this is the only true solutio to our problems – yes in the mean time you can help out where you can give to the poor, help the youths in your community etc… but these are not going to solve the problem.

 

So the reason why the Hizb does not give other solution s other than the khialfha because there is none, so we work towards it and in the mean time we help out where we can but we work to the only solution – Al Khilafah.

 

The Khilafah will be established by working with an Islamic Political party that calls for Khilafah based on the Method of the Prophet (saw).

 

Allah (swt) says, there must arise from amongst you a group that enjoins all the good and forbids all the evil.

 

So this group must call for all of Islam – Khilafah.

 

The Method to achieve this is:

 

Culture the dawah carriers with Islam in a politicla way so that they can challenge the Kufr in society – the Economucs, Social, Eduicational, ruling, punishment etc… so that they can show Islam as an alternative. Create the Public opinion for Islam and then seek the authority from those that are capable to give it – the military in the Muslim lands. Read a seerah book and you will see that this is the method that the Prophet of Allah (swt) used.

 

- Cutlured the Sahaba in the House of Arqam

- Challenged the kufr in society, cheatring in the market place, ineqaulity, burying of daughters. Created the public opinon for Islam in Madinah.

- Took the authority from the ansar and establish dar al Islam.

 

The book the Method to Re-Establish the Khilafah State gives the meat to these bones, available at www.1924.org and www.khilafah.com

 

I understand some points may not be clear but be specific and I will try to clarify.

[NGONGE]

I have to admit, your last post was much better. I still need to know more about the Khilafa bit though. I’ll ask you more questions below. But, first I have to thank you for taking all the criticism in the spirit it was intended and replying with good grace.

 

Now, I have two points that I need you to clarify a bit more for me. The first will be about the target audience of the Hezb and the second will be about the Khilafa itself.

 

From reading your explanation above (and many previous threads), the Hezb (since I’m assuming these are Hezb arguments), uses Western examples such as teenage sex and the acceptance of homosexuality! These examples (on the whole) are not prevalent or accepted in Muslim lands, so are the Hezb directing its message to a Western audience?

 

My second point regards the Khilafa and your contention that society needs to be changed from the top down! I’m just a bit apprehensive about such an idea. Lets assume we got a Khalifa, he gets on with the task of changing society into following his way. How will that work? Will it follow the Madhab of that particular Khalifa? Will the people who do not agree with a HT Khalifa (because of differences in Aqeeda) be banished from the land? Will they be forced to follow the Khalifa’s way?