Kala japkii ururkii biliiliqada ee la magac baxay Al-shabab

[dhulQarnayn]

^^^

 

Now back to the topic at hand...

------------------------------------------------

 

Somalia's Islamic Courts Fracture

 

A closed source on the ground in Somalia,who is conversant with the country's political dynamics, reports a marked shift in its power configuration, as sub-clan loyalties increasingly supplant broader alliances and coalitions in the face of an expected and imminent withdrawal of Ethiopian occupation forces.

 

The source says that despite the apparent gains by the Islamic Courts movement, to the point at which it nominally controls several of Somalia's regions and is making headway in all of them in its "re-liberation" struggle against the occupation and the country's notional Transitional Federal Government (T.F.G.), the movement has entered a process of splintering into clan-based militias that are often at odds with one another. The source describes the developing situation as a "free-for-all" that is replicated outside the movement with the proliferation of free-lance criminal gangs, rearming by business interests and a general retreat to sub-clan self-protection. According the source, devolution to the sub-clan level is complicated by cross-cutting allegiances to different tendencies in the Courts movement, creating rapidly shifting coalitions and

radical uncertainty among all of the players:"There is huge apprehension as to how coalitions will form and sustain themselves, as traditional clan structures are now divided across ideological and profit lines."A separate source in the United Arab Emirates confirms the preceding description, reporting that Somali businessmen in the Gulf states have redirected their financial support away from umbrella organizations to their specific sub-clans.

 

The dynamic of accelerated devolution that is noted by both sources has been precipitated by the broad consensus among Somali political actors that Ethiopia has reached the end of its tether in Somalia and will remove its forces from the country whether or not they are replaced by an unlikely United Nations stabilization mission and despite Western pressure to remain in the absence of such a mission.An Ethiopian pull-out would leave the powerless T.F.G. incapable of sustaining itself, setting the stage for a scramble for power among the fragmented factions, forcing each of them into a posture of pro-active self-defense. Should such a situation transpire, the greatest likelihood for Somalia would be a period of civil warfare preceding the emergence of a more stable configuration of power, the design of which is at present unpredictable.

 

Signs of an Ethiopian withdrawal have already been reported in Somali media during late September and early October.On September 27, Ethiopian forces withdrew from their major base in the Hiraan region on the outskirts of its capital Beledweyne, leaving the region under the control of the Courts movement, which announced plans to form an administration based on Shari'a law. Hiraan, which borders Ethiopia's restive Somali Regional State and is the gateway to central Somalia, held the third largest number of occupation troops in the country after the official capital Mogadishu and the transitional capital Baidoa. Local media also reported that Ethiopian forces were heading for the border in the southwestern Gedo region, where the Courts movement already holds the capital Bardhere,but faces opposition from local clans. Other reports indicate that Ethiopian forces are concentrating in the Bay region, where Baidoa is located, to make a last-ditch effort to dislodge Courts militias, led by the internationalist-jihadist al-Shabaab group, from the control of towns surrounding the provisional capital.

 

With various factions of the Courts movement dominant in every region of Somalia

south of the autonomous sub-state of Puntland, Ethiopia is playing an increasingly diminished role in the country's power configuration, regardless of whether or not it intends to withdraw. All the actors are aware of the looming power vacuum, which is why they are in the process of continually positioning and repositioning themselves.

 

Further indications of weakness in Addis Ababa came at the end of Sept when Ethiopia's prime minister, Meles Zenawi, met with United States Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice and told her that his forces could not remain in Somalia for an "indefinite period of time." Sensing Zenawi's failing resolve, the fractious and divided parties forming Ethiopia's political opposition found common ground in agitating for a pull-out when the Ethiopian Democratic Party, which had backed the occupation, called for a timetable for withdrawal, joining the United Ethiopian Democratic Forces and the Unity for Democracy and Justice, both of which have demanded an immediate end to the occupation.

 

The Case of Middle Shabelle

 

The closed source in Somalia indicated the shape of things to come in a detailed

description of the situation in the Middle Shabelle region, which has been administered by the Courts movement for several months. Beginning with the observation that "what we see on the ground is the perpetual fracturing of the Islamic groups," the source reports that after the Courts movement took control of the region, there were four factions present: a group linked to al-Shabaab, two clan-linked groups operating under the umbrella of the Islamic Courts Union (I.C.U.) and an I.C.U. group affiliated with the diplomatic wing of the Alliance for the Re-Liberation of Somalia (A.R.S.), to which administrative control had been provisionally "ceded." Currently, says the source, there are at least four new factions, three of which are clan-based and nominally affiliated with the I.C.U., and one or more of which have splintered from the A.R.S. along clan

lines. The source adds that the agreement allowing the A.R.S. faction administrative control expires in a month with little prospect for its renewal.

 

The source reports that not only has the Courts movement splintered in Middle Shabelle, but that its factions are engaging in predatory acts, such as looting food shipments and firing on aid recipients, and using access to humanitarianaid as a political weapon. Violent clashes resulting in deaths occurred when I.C.U. forces guarding food shipments attempted to loot them - in one case, local residents mobilized against the I.C.U. "guards," killing one of them and driving the rest of them off. The source likens the Courts factions in Middle Shabelle to warlord and "rogue-businessman" groups that are "driven by the profit and control motive."

 

Although the source's account of events in Middle Shabelle has not been directly confirmed in open sources, local media reported on October 3 that there had been a spike in robberies in the region's capital Jowhar by "unidentified militia groups" stealing cell phones, and that I.C.U. officials were meeting to "decide how to resolve the situation." On October 6, a United Nations delegation from Nairobi met with I.C.U. officials in Jowhar to discuss the delivery of humanitarian aid; taken at face value, this would appear to be a sign of stability in the region and of growing legitimacy of the Courts movement. In light of the source's report, the meaning of the visit is less clear.

 

Conclusion

 

If the sources in Somalia and the U.A.E. are correct - and they have proven to be reliable in the past - southern and central Somalia is poised to descend into a period of strife with power draining to the sub-clan level of society and attended by the complications of cross-cutting ideological and business interests. Garowe Online reported on October 6 that the chair of the Ha'wiye clan's Tradition and Unity Council, Mohamed Hassan Haad, had recently returned from a trip through Somalia's central regions, which are dominated by the Ha'wiye clan family, with the aim of testing a proposal for a Ha'wiye regional government, which would open up a process of clan-based cantonization. Garowe Online's source, a former Puntland official, said that the trip had met with "mixed results," but that it indicated "a process of Ha'wiyism."

 

With the Somalia source reporting that Washington is in a state of "paralysis" on Somalia and with Ethiopia's power vector weakening, it appears that Somalia will be abandoned to its own devices once again, as it had been before the Courts movement mounted its aborted revolution in 2006. As the Courts movement gained ground through 2008, it appeared possible that it might maintain sufficient unity of purpose to provide a political formula for Somalia. The source's report on Middle Shabelle was intended to correct that misconception.

 

At present, there is no protagonist in Somalia, only a multitude of defensive antagonists.

 

--------------------------

 

dhulQarnayn :cool:

Republic Of California

[Rahima]

The notion of an Islamic state is in itself an oxymoron

which was TOO exceptional to be useful to us as a model today

I think that you and I have different understandings of Islam altogether. Islam to me can and should be applied at all times for all people, none of it was an exception for the time of Rasulallah.

 

 

In theory an Islamic State is great. I don't think LG is arguing against the theory here. We (and I take the opportunity to speak on her behalf here) are talking about the CURRENT Somali situation and if an Islamic State is the correct option.

I agree, the current Somali situation is not ideal for the establishment of an Islamic State, namely because people need to have the basic proper understanding of Islam first- which we don’t seem to have. That said, it is achievable, it is not only in theory where it is great, but can also, with certain precursors, be great in practice.

 

Would you want to have an Islamic State in Somalia tomorrow?

Yes I would, just like I would want Somalis to be God-fearing Muslims that don’t butcher one another. Do I think it should happen tomorrow? No!

 

For the avoidance of doubt, yes I would love to have an Islamic State in Somalia. But only if those running it demonstrate the ability to win people's trust with their benevolence, patience and wisdom and not their anger, threats and political naivety (that last one only in the case of Sh. Sharif).

My sentiments exactly. This is exactly how I feel about the situation. I’A oneday we can achieve a proper Islamic state- not just in Somalia.

[dhulQarnayn]

Originally posted by Rahima:

quote:

---

The notion of an Islamic state is in itself an oxymoron

which was TOO exceptional to be useful to us as a model today

I think that you and I have different understandings of Islam altogether.

Islam to me can and should be applied at all times for all people, none of it was an exception for the time of Rasulallah.

Rahima,

 

That fact that, you are admiting there are "different understanding of Islam" should be a sufficient arguement AGAINST the establishment of an Islamic state in Somalia. Because of the diversity you call "a different understanding of Islam"-- any enactment of Shari'a law would have to select some understanding(yours) over others(mine), and that could cause conflict amongst muslims with equally legitimate competing "understandings of Islam".

 

As for the exceptionality of the early muslim state of Medina, I'm confident no mortal today could replicate it, because it had for a head of state, our Holy Prophet(SAS). And since Somalis, for the most part are a fallible, corruptible and puny bunch--I don't think we can implement such a state.

 

dhulQarnayn :cool:

Republic Of California

[Rahima]

^Understand in full context, it will make things a whole lot easier for the both of us.

 

I'll put it in simpler terms, to believe that the concept of an Islamic state can never be applied again (in that only Rasuallah was able to implement it) is to contradict what Islam teaches us. This is not a basic matter of fiqh here, we're not debating where your hands should be placed in prayer.

 

As Muslims, irrespective of your understanding or school of thought, you must believe that all aspects of Islam are applicable for all of time in all places (under the right conditions). Note i said are applicable, whether or not human beings are ready or able to, depends on various factors, but we as Muslims pray that I'A we will see the return of the Islamic state.

[RedSea]

^Insha Allah Amiin.

 

 

Dhulka,

 

That last post suprisingly had some facts planted in it.

 

While leaving the current status of somalia alone for a moment; how does Dhulqarnayn feel about Islamic sharica in somalia? Given the knowleadge you have shown bout Islamic history, the answer should be easy. Forget about whether we can or can't for sec. As hypothetical question would you be willing to except it if it showed up at your door steps?

[dhulQarnayn]

Originally posted by Mujahid: Red Sea:

^Insha Allah Amiin.

 

Dhulka,

 

That last post suprisingly had some facts planted in it.

 

While leaving the current status of somalia alone for a moment; how does Dhulqarnayn feel about Islamic sharica in somalia? Given the knowleadge you have shown bout Islamic history, the answer should be easy. Forget about whether we can or can't for sec. As hypothetical question would you be willing to except it if it showed up at your door steps?

^^^^

Well but ofcourse my dear secessionist amigo, Red Sea!

 

First things first- Unlike the Shabab deviants and the keyboard "warriors" who ulalate on behalf of them on SOL, I don't think Shari'a law should become an instrument to usurp political control in Somalia. PERIOD!

 

Now with that out of the way, I'll give you a minute or two, to take off that fake cimaamad you knavishly wear on the top of your head, and return to your good old secessionist-self before I continue....

 

Now Señor Red, Shari'a is NOT a single collection of rules. Numerous interpretations and exegesis exist of the Holy Qu'ran, Ahadith and Sunnah, by many different madhabs. Therefore, what Shari'a laws are you referring to? Which regulations will you accept as Islamic, which dictums do you think all Muslims should accept in Somalia? The predominant Madhab in Somalia is Shaafi'i, however, Muslims following other madhabs such as Hanbali, Maliki and Hanafi also live in Somalia, will they have recourse to their madhab?

 

Although Somalia is currently a state without any executable set of laws, I believe it owes itself and ALL its people a fair and equal system of governance and law. Now whilst most Shari'a laws were inspired by the Holy Qu'ran, it has developed and evolved through time and through the efforts of men. Men who, like the rest of us, could BE fallible and corruptible. Men who to some folks should NEVER be questioned, to which I say, bullocks mate! I believe Shari'a laws should be open to scrutiny, dissection, and criticism like any other system of law. Its divine roots(i.e it being based on the Holy Qu'ran and Sunnah) should NOT be a bulwark against criticism. Or else, pernicious interpretations of Shari'a will lead to unfairness and discrimination, just like in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan and Mogadishu(during the short-lived rule of cimaamad wearing bililiqo&CO).

 

Remember on this same thread, when LaZie G tried to oppose some of the inherent human rights violations that could take place under the banner of Shari'a in Somalia and when she suggested a little securalism as an alternative, how many of you were quick to accuse her of being on the edge of blasphemy and apostasy. :rolleyes: ...To those folks-- I urge y'all return to the five pillars of Islam and to study the Holy Qu'ran.

 

Somalis must recognize that we live in a very globalized world. It is time to renounce the idea that Somalia should be ruled EXCLUSIVELY by Shari'a. More than ever before, we need a secular state in Somalia that respects freedom of religion(for those that want Shari'a), and freedom from religion (for those that want none of it), and human rights founded on the Qu'ranic principle that says..."Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And Allah hears and knows all things [sûrah al-Baqarah: 256]".

 

This means that we must reject the claims of the deviants(Al-Shabab&CO) in Somalia who wish to hijack our faith and LIE to us that the sovereignty of Somalia belongs to THEM exclusively, because they're magically the self-appointed representatives of Allah's(SWT). Indeed this demands that this very concept of an Islamic state in Somalia be challenged and the imposition of Shari'a law for political ends must be opposed at all cost in Somalia.

 

What is needed is nothing less than the secularization of Somalia, and the establishment of the idea that individual CHOICE must be our guide and the gauge of our personal and private conduct on earth--And only Allah(SWT) will be the Judge of our actions on earth in the hereafter.

 

Secularization, however, should NOT be imposed on us either. The onus is on us ALL to promote the ideals of personal freedom, national progress and change from within Somalia.

 

Wabilahi Towfiiq!

 

dhulQarnayn :cool:

Republic Of California

[Som@li]

If Somalia wants to adopt Islamic State, it has to come within, and not go with Saudisation that has been happening for the last 20 years. Saudi Culture will not be a religion in Somalia, Abu hebel Abu hebelaayo, bay dadka ku wareersheen, When ICU were in control of Mogadhu, there was this big gathering, and It was on Universal TV, one of the Abus told the crowd he will deliver his speech in the Somali mother tongue, and went on speaking in Arabic, This was a clear self hate and lack of identity, and not respecting that majority of the people did not understand his speech.

 

I am also puzzled by the extreme intolerance towards others who interpret religion differently.

 

It was recently that Shabaabs attacked a mosque in Kismayo cuz the Imams there were doing things diffirently, Seef la bood nimadaasu waa waxa Soomaaliya waalay, Bur burkii Maxaakiimtana qayb wayn ka ahaa, With all the things to worry about in Somalia, Kids should not cut hair this way, they should not watch the premier league, people with these mentalities, I wouldn’t want them to rule a village, let alone Somalia.

 

Islam should be spread through dialogue and communication ,not by gun barrel,Malaysia is a great model.

[dhulQarnayn]

^^^Dabshid, inleyn mar mar caqli baad leedahay saaxiib. Ilaahay ha kuu kordhiyo....lol

 

dhulQarnayn :cool:

Republic Of California

[Jacaylbaro]

Dabshid, Iska waran sxb ,, beryahan xageed ka dhacday ??

[Som@li]

JB, Waan joogay saxb, Ii waran adigu, xagee wax marin?

 

 

Dhul-Qarnayn, adigana hadal badnaan baa ku wareerisay.

[Jacaylbaro]

Waar niyow waa la fiican yahay sxb ,,, dee waa wareerkaad ogayd uun ma wax kalaa jira ,, loool

[RedSea]

Dear Dhulqarnayn,

 

I asked you to be objective and address the possibility of sharia law to be implemented in somalia; i was looking for your take on. You partially addresed that, the rest you finger pointed towards my cimaamad( ), Alshabaab iyo waxaan laguu dirsan.

Let us remain objective shall we sire?

 

 

Firstly, your understanding of Madhabs are limited. Madhabi(s) are simply different methods of interpretation of religious material in the three major areas: belief, religious practice and law. methods not a concrete difference. It's minor difference of various interpetation of the four major methods; Whom each one of us can choose to agree and disagree as we like without any consequence of any sort.

 

 

The difference between the four major methods of Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, Hanbali aren't a major change to each require its own set of laws or freedom of practice. It's the differce of needle in the sea.

 

 

Imamu Shafi'i was the first one to systematise Islamic Law. Originally, he studied both in Iraq and in Medina, but disagreed with the methodology of those older schools, in favor of the Traditionalists.

 

• Quran

 

Sunna of the Prophet, based on: Hadith from the Prophet Hadith from the Companions of the Prophet

 

Ijma (consensus of the Umma - Muslim community)

 

Ra'y - reasoning.

• .

 

As you asserted, somalis mostly follow the methods of Imamu Shafi'i. Which perfectly accomadates the co-existance of all methods of Islamic traditions using logic and reasoning.

 

Secondly, The Sharia law is good justice system where everybody will be treated equally regardless of being poor or rich unlike other man made laws i.e Democracy, communism, etc.. whereby you will not be treated fairly.

 

It protects the rights of everyone specifically the vulnerable. During the time of the prophet peace be upon him; there were Jewish (Baynu qowni qaac) and Christian minorities living amongst Muslims; their rights were never violated. Let alone a nation of Muslim majority, with almost the same ethnic background, sub culture and language. the prediction of successful outcome of implementing sharia law in Somalia are immense.

 

In addition, I believe your main concern isn't so much whether it will work or not (it will work), but rather if it will "guarantee" your personel liberal rights to go and do as you wish. I understand where your concerns stem from completely sxb. Its' not any of your doing, but what has been fed to you to believe by the west. You believe the demands of sharia law are so primitive that they are bound to be unacceptable to the increasingly sophisticated and fast "westernising" peoples of Africa. Buhooo!

 

 

You want individual liberty to be excercised (and I with you there) but to what extent; is where I disagree with. Ask yourself this: Are Humans always capable of making the right choices for themselves without a guidance (checks and balances) of any sort??

 

We need guidance; laws and regulation which they can abide by. Those laws, I believe, shouldn't be in our case democracy, federalism, communism or any other ism, but rather our own precious faith of Islam. Which guarantees respectable personnel liberty, non corrupt governance, equal and free xalaal trade and business as well as sin free social life.

 

If we are left out to make our rules as we go by, then surely we will not only corrupt our own lives, but we will end up a corrupt Atheist society. We would tolerate seeing our women becoming prostitutes, our kidz becoming JZ and lil waynes, and our cities would be turned into Sin cities like that of Vegas and New Orleans. We do have choice to do as we wish, but Islam is there to guide us to make the right ones. Trust me lad, its' to our benefit. As Allah is all Mighty, and needs to one to benefit him. Dadku waa doqon dan magarto ah, waa in la ilaaliyaa si aanay jidka uga bixin. Islam waa naxariis, waa naruuro. Waa nolol macaan ifka iyo aakhiroba. Waa wanaag waa sharaf. Waa iftin, waa nuur. Markaa awow ka cabsan.

 

 

As for the case of LZG, I think the sister was way out of line. She wasn't harrased by any means, her sanity was questioned though, as she cheered for the arresting of people who had not been charged or found guilty of any crime(talk about guilt before the crime). She even called for their death. That was way out line on her parts and she did deserve all the critism she has gotten from this crowd. There is no way to justify her action. Soo naga aadyar iska dhaa dhiciska awoow.

[dhulQarnayn]

Once again Red Sea, as usual, you are coming across as a little under-medicated. Ma anaa kudhahay, google "what is Shari'a?" and paste the results on this thread. All I said was that we need to have the CHOICE to use Shari'a law in Somalia for people like youself and I. However; I don't think we have the right to FORCE Shari'a upon other Somalis who do not want it. Now that was the GIST of my post! So don't try to go on a PR campaign in here about the goodness of the Shari'a system of law. I know that very well and I'm sure many other Somalis feel the same way. I also appreciate how you've shared your thoughts on this matter. But I'm confident that Somalis will see through the munaafiqnimo of Shabab&CO and will protect their personal freedoms, because the "Shari'a is the solution" and the "I'm telling you it's the solution or else off with your head" crowd do NOT really have any real solutions for us. The lack of real solutions is why they will always try to whip up mass sentiments and try to use the excuse that they fighting for the implementation of Islamic law to achieve a hidden and politically motivated agenda. But in the end, I'm sure it will NOT work on Somalis.

 

dhulQarnayn :cool:

Republic Of California

[RedSea]

That is rich coming from a TFG supporter. You never cease to amaze.

 

'waa idaa khaadama humul jaahiluuna, qaaluu salaama'

 

Khayr ayaan kuu rajayn.

[LayZie G.]

I agree, the current Somali situation is not ideal for the establishment of an Islamic State, namely because people need to have the basic proper understanding of Islam first- which we don’t seem to have. That said, it is achievable, it is not only in theory where it is great, but can also, with certain precursors, be great in practice.

Wonderfully said, ya Rahima.

 

First thing is first, no time to train anyone(especially not m*oryaanta) about the basics of islam.

 

My proposal is very simple and no it doesn't include for waiting around m*oryaans to get it together in order to understand the fundamentals of our religion.

 

As a nation, we need to start thinking about the future, we need to think about our people and how best to serve them.

 

I say lets start with very basic draft of our constitution or even modify an existing one. Let us go around and get signatures of every citizen we can find, common folks, influential folks. Let us show them or read to them our proposal, and If they so much as disapprove anything written on that document, we will not leave until we made the necessary adjustments for them and off to the next region and next.

 

The document will ensure that the rights of individuals are protected. This document will support and be inclusive of all genders, will protect the disabled and will secure our children's future. A section of the constitution will declare the rights of each province to function independently. By that I mean, they can tend to their day to day affairs, they want to implement sharia based judiciary system and elect sharia judges or the option to go through the federal system, they should be allowed to exercise that freedom of choice as it will be outlined in the constitution.

 

The governors and legislators who are elected through the secular system will have the freedom to practice sharia law through their respective provinces. Each elected governor will look into this house legislators who are representatives of the citizens of that province to draft a legislation that will allow the opportunity for its citizens to choose a federal court or sharia court to tend to their civil disputes. They can choose to wait out the federal courts to hear their cases like everyone else, or they can go in-front of a sharia judge and exercise their God given right to seek justice in that fashion.

 

This indeed will make the Kashafa's of today happy, as it will allow them to exercise and have options on which way their citizens want to be governed.

 

This idea came from a recent documentary I watched from a northern state in Nigeria, which allowed their citizens the freedom to take their domestic claims infront of a sharia court or go through the majesty courts. These citizens were both muslims and christians.

 

What was inspiring to me was that the choice was left up to the people. Some christians preferred sharia court over the majesty court for land dispute cases etc.(Majesty courts have a long wait time)

 

The sharia courts have less wait time, the verdict is fair as the judge hears both cases and decides based on the evidence.

 

If Kashafa or Rahima want that type of system, theu don't have to look far.

 

 

As DQ said, we will not secularize any citizen that doesn't want to be part of a secular society.

 

Again, we will put the decisions in the hands of our citizens. We know that no nation can function without its people and thats why our people are important to the development and governing of our great country.

 

All in all, some of you might agree, some might still have disagreements, and thats why its best to address all concerns in the open instead of just blindly supporting terrorists or questioning someone's faith over differences of opinion.

 

PS:Lord Secessioner, lack of evidence doesn't proof innocence. Pass that on to the rest of your secessioner brothers.