Are Somali’s genetically backward

[Chimera]

indeed

 

i read a study a while back that said three parts of Kenya wasn't connected at all while even small towns around Somalia were connected

[Chimera]

Internet usage in Somalia grew 44,900% in the last five years, registering the highest in Africa

 

http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats1.htm#africa

[NASSIR]

At least , he should have appreciated how the Somali refugees in Kenya have stimulated the market and overall economy of Kenya and some other eastern and southern Africa by flooding their market with cheap, quality products. Somalis are very productive and capitalist, but their only problem is clannism and nepostism as our great poet spelled it out on the eve of our independence, TimaAdde.

 

Invention and Anarchy -- a Study by World Bank

[Taliban]

Originally posted by David_Letterman:

- People who survived on their own for the last 15 years without foreign aid

Good point. Some Somalis have become so dependent on Western taxes that they cannot imagine life without those taxes. They don't realize it's only a fraction of Somalis who live off those taxes. They don't realize it's Allah who is the Provider and Sustainer, and should they leave the West they will survive one way or another. Speaking of statistics, more Somalis live and survive in each of Ethiopia, Kenya or Yemen than the combined number of Somalis in the UK, Canada and the US:

 

Somalia: 9,950,000

Ethiopia: 4,620,000

Kenya: 1,854,000

Yemen: 757,000

Djibouti: 301,000

United Kingdom: 200,000

Canada: 200,000

United States 150,000

Saudi Arabia:50,000

United Arab Emirates: 30,000

Netherlands: 31,700

Australia 17,435

Norway: 17,000

Denmark: 16,564

Sweden: 15,294

New Zealand: 14,345

Finland: 11,000

South Africa: 9,000

Italy: 5,000

Brazil:3,200

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_people

[Chimera]

Caamir amazing stuff

 

must be their progressive genes no?

 

Taliban i had a link that showed a study sayinge Somalis drop welfare faster than other groups but it went M.I.A on me but your right

[Taliban]

Originally posted by David_Letterman:

i had a link that showed a study sayinge Somalis drop welfare faster than other groups but it went M.I.A on me but your right

I have read about that study; it was a very positive development on part of those Somalis. However, that study reflects Somalis in the US. Some Somalis in other Western countries, especially the UK, have become so dependent on Western taxes to the point they become enraged and furious if you criticize the West, its public figures or its values, morals and standards. I have come to the conclusion that they almost worship those taxes.

[xiinfaniin]

Dave & Caamir, highlighting some positive aspects of us does not diminish the painful fact of our other ailments. It’s like tallying the artistic achievements of an abusive husband---it’s futile for it doesn’t speak to the validity of the said charge.

 

I don’t mind us being clannish---I think it’s unavoidable given how elemental tribe is to our nomadic life. But why are Somalis so overly clannish to the determent of their own unity as a nation? I somehow missed the value of the supposed genius of succeeding in and actually contributing to the development of the other people’s while utterly destroying ours. Sure, since the arrival of Somalis more shopping malls were erected in Eastlight section of Nairobi. But isn’t that a relegating act to have destroyed your beautiful capital and come and seek to flourish in other people’s ghettos?

 

Be serious folks. Why are we so back-warded? That’s the question. Lest you mistaken the question is not whether we are back-warded.

[Centurion]

But isn’t that a relegating act to have destroyed your beautiful capital and come and seek to flourish in other people’s ghettos?

Why are we content with living out our lives in a country not our own?

 

Although we are quite happy to wave around miniature flags, and wear patriotic t-shirts,

why is more than 80% of the Diaspora not actively considering how they'll return to their country?

[NASSIR]

I will think about all of these questions should time permit. They are sure very good questions to answer.

[NGONGE]

Xiin,

 

You just had to come and rescue this topic, didn’t you?

 

As crazy and ironic as it might all sound I believe that it’s really all about Survival. I’ve already played this game with Red Sea on another thread. One is clannish because one believes that everyone around him is an enemy (and this has some truth in it of course) and that only one’s brothers, cousins and kin can protect him from being trampled over by others.

 

Yes all of this is backward and somewhat irrational but the circumstances of the last sixteen years, and the years before that, fully justify it. A recent case in point would be the government’s call for an arms amnesty in the capital. What did the people of the capital respond with other than to say first Puntland and then us!

 

Even when the Courts came with their Islamic message many of those opposing them did so for clannish reasons. Were they wrong? I don’t think so. For better or worse, their reasons were as valid as those of the ones that refused the arms amnesty. The same applies to Somaliland and the disputed territories. The people in those areas aren’t likely to love Puntland that much but, for safety and survival they had to follow the principle of better the devil you know!

 

It’s all about survival. Find a valid and workable alternative and people will ditch this clannish nonsense like Val’s three month old shoes (she’s fashion conscious, our Val ).

 

The education point maybe one to be looked at but I honestly don’t believe it plays that big a part in changing attitudes, not in Somalia at any rate. For if we went down that route it will take us years of effort and trying. Not to mention of course that this type of ‘education’ requires a steady environment and willing pupils. People will only ditch the waxa-la-yedhi mentality when they are presented with a better and more beneficial alternative. Many almost did when the Courts came along. Alas that turned out to be nothing but a storm in a tea cup.

 

At any rate, I don’t think I’ve presented anything new here and really didn’t think the questions of the original author merited serious replies. For if he’s asking us what’s wrong with Somalis now (after a full sixteen years of civil war) he is totally, utterly and completely missing the point. We’ve gone beyond the Why and have been stuck with the How for more than a decade, saaxib.

 

Now I wonder HOW this thread is going to fizzle out? My bet is on a clannish argument.

[Chimera]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

Dave & Caamir, highlighting some positive aspects of us does not diminish the painful fact of our other ailments. It’s like tallying the artistic achievements of an

abusive husband

---it’s futile for it doesn’t speak to the validity of the said charge.

2 can play that game

 

would it be fair to generalise the before mentioned abusive husband's children as future wifebeaters just because he is one and they carry his genes?

 

of course not and that is why this topic is a non sequitur

 

also the character that made this topic reminds me of a Kenyan on a different forum with the same arguments

 

2 bad that site has changed completely and the old topics are gone or else i could have shown you it myself

 

I really dislike these type of people who hide behind the Somali name and then start attacking you it's shows their insecurity with their own backgrounds and therefore they feel they can only attack you by using your name fearing a justified backlash if they come as themselves

 

I don’t mind us being clannish---I think it’s unavoidable given how elemental tribe is to our nomadic life. But why are Somalis so overly clannish to the determent of their own unity as a nation?

North Korea, South Korea???

 

animosity is the problem we face today and fear that history will repeat itself

 

if we can change this then unity will come naturally, being hi-jacked and forced something we don't want is our problem today aswell

 

but many cities have grown unbelievable fast with a urban growth rate of 8/9 % per annum with many different tribes settling in one city

 

many business were started with co-operation between different tribes

 

and all the other positive stuff was done by hard working people

 

African people are not genetically backwards they simply have bad leaders who aren't patriotic the way a Turk is for his country

 

I somehow missed the value of the supposed genius of succeeding in and actually contributing to the development of the other people’s while utterly destroying ours. Sure, since the arrival of Somalis more shopping malls were erected in Eastlight section of Nairobi. But isn’t that a relegating act to have destroyed your beautiful capital and come and seek to flourish in other people’s ghettos?

 

Be serious folks. Why are we so back-warded? That’s the question. Lest you mistaken the question is not whether we are back-warded.

I think you completely missed the link of my topic brother please check the link Somalis have done more in Anarchy then they could ever dream doing under Barre rule

 

yes Mogadishu was a world class city

 

today considering what it's been through it's still beautifull you can't deny it just check the pics in the link and now we have two prospering States aswell who before were neglected by the Government

 

- 5 airlines competing up from 1 before the civil war

1 one of them nominated as a african success story

-17+ universities up from 1 before the civil war

-1172 primary schools up from 600 before the civil war (and then you have duqsi's aswell)

-45 hospitals and increasing

- advanced telecommunication network nr1 in Africa

-a steady Livestock and fish trade

- a relative construction boom

- aids rate below 1 percent

-foreign investment from patriotic expats flowing in

- a currency wich is more stable than it's neighbouring countries

-Internet usage in Somalia grew 44,900% in the last five years, registering the highest in Africa

 

come on brother how is this utterly destruction??

[Chimera]

Originally posted by Centurion:

quote: But isn’t that a relegating act to have destroyed your beautiful capital and come and seek to flourish in other people’s ghettos?

Why are we content with living out our lives in a country not our own?

 

Although we are quite happy to wave around miniature flags, and wear patriotic t-shirts,

why is more than 80% of the Diaspora not actively considering how they'll return to their country?

can i see your source for that statistic please?

 

I don't know about your family but half of mine returned a while back and those originating from S-land have returned in Hoardes as well

 

P-land same situation and if ICU stability and the Diaspora's reaction is an indicator i think your assumption of them ''not considering a return'' is a fallacy cause under ICU rule there was a whole chunk of Somalis returning

 

returning is a must for me

[Castro]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

Why are we so back-warded?

Define backwardness yaa Xiin. And when you've done that, put Somalis on a scale such that the "so back-warded" can be compared to the completely back-warded and the not-so back-warded people.

 

You know better than to ask this kind of question. I gave Bokero a reasonable response to his unreasonable questions on page 1 of this thread. He must not have read it, or understood it, for he went on to commit more fallacies. The good news is, many people feel the same way he does. The smart ones go out to find the answers they seek.

 

Try again yaa Xiin.

 

Centurion, people don't return to their homelands because they've often been gone long enough to build a life elsewhere. Also, whatever circumstances that made them leave in the first place often linger for decades. Perhaps you're a single person with no kids and often entertain ideas of returning. Once you're married with kids, the idea visits you less and less. And after a certain number of decades (varies depending on the age at which a person left home), the homeland becomes just a memory in some remote brain cell or two.

 

Some do return but many, if not most, never do. And this is hardly unique to Somalis, it's everyone.

[Centurion]

can i see your source for that statistic please?

David, that was not a statistical fact, but an obvious observation.

 

i think your assumption of them ''not considering a return'' is a fallacy cause under ICU rule there was a whole chunk of Somalis returning

 

returning is a must for me

It is true, many people are returning, but many more have given up actively seeking to return.

Even more important, almost none are preparing to return with skills and knowledge gained from living in more developed countries.

 

I do not doubt that many relatively younger Somalis 'entertain' (as Castro puts it) the idea of returning, but i am cynical as to how important it is to them.

 

For me it is extremely important, glad it is the same to you.

 

Castro, i hope those educated or being educated today, do more than entertain the thought of returning.

Certainly, people become attached to their places they call home today, and become more tied to it over the years due to things like children and marriage. However i do not see those as factors which can neccesarily result in a waning in the desire to return to one's own country. Perhaps, to most people those factors will result in a return being delayed, or temporarily forgotten. But the desire never ceases to exist, even if some find themselves never returning.

 

However at the end of the day, it all depends on how important Somalia or Somalinimo is to each individual.

[TenaciousSoul]

Find a valid and workable alternative and people will ditch this clannish nonsense like Val’s three month old shoes

Queen Arawelo

 

enough said