A President Or A Geography Teacher?

[Sophist]

Salaam Dhalinyaro,

 

I would genuinely like to sit this one out and remain the good reader that I have become of late. That said, it would be most fruitful if we have the issues in contention be highlighted and discussed without polysemous sophistry!. Further, I would recommend the rest of the chaps to join me in the gallery and feast upon the nourishing flesh served by Messers Xiin and Ngone.

 

S

 

PS: Reason of choosing these gents are obvious; one is the initiator of the thread and the other a bona fide caravan enthusiast

[Grad Student]

Leave the saint alone. Ngonge, what if you are cynic and against any Somali leadership. In my line of work, I have seen too many Somalis (mostly teens with very little trust of anything Somali)...

This man has taken over an extremely difficult job. Let him do his job.

 

One last thing, most Somalis are peasants, so please spare us the uppity classifications and distinctions.

[NGONGE]

^^ You miss the point on every level, saaxib. I am not a cynic, I am sceptic (note the difference). As for the peasant reference, you got that wrong too. View it along the lines of the meek ruling the earth, saaxib.

 

Xiin,

Saaxib, a man is ALWAYS judged by the positions he takes and comments he makes (rhetoric or none). This is your president! To mention his history is as legitimate as mentioning his alleged achievements and policies. I mean, it is not as if I talked about him being rubbish at football when he was a kid or some such nonsense. I spoke about his previous political positions and how they MUST come into play when judging the man today.

 

By the way, do not try to brush us off with the argument that Al Shabab wanted to fight and he did not. How many times exactly do you want us to remind you of the picture of him brandishing the machine gun or announcing that his fighters will win the war? This, my friend, was a position he took at the time and neither you nor any of his supporters are objective enough to acknowledge it.

 

Still, I see that you have relented a little and conceded the fact that he is a politician. I agree and I am glad that you are finally starting to see things with a touch of clarity. But this is not enough. I am greedy, saaxib. I want MORE. I want to examine these policies and achievements you keep boasting about. What exactly are they? The creation of a resistance movement? The outsmarting of Abdullahi Yusuf? Becoming president? So far, all these look like personal achievements that do the ordinary Somali no good. There is nothing new or different there (AY did it, Abdulqasim did it and Ali Mehdi did it). They are as devalued as the Somali Shilling, saaxib.

 

What of his policies? The fact that he said let us talk? War didn't Abdullahi Yusuf invite his opponents to talk too (it is all documented and I am sure Duke can point you to a dozen articles where he did so)? What else has he done so far? Give me something new, saaaxib. Give me something to bite into. Give me FLESH!

 

I do not think the man has talked to his opponents enough (if at all). My rational, logical mind refuses to believe that his opponents are as mentally deranged as they seem and that he is as wise and reasonable as you portray him. It is IMPOSSIBLE! If they were THAT mad and he were that sane, he would have cut off and run within a day of meeting them (political rhetoric or not). So there must have been a common ground and reasonable understanding between them (once upon a time) and therefore, there must be a way to compromise and reach another understanding. However, if they are indeed as mad as they clearly seem, it really does not reflect well on the man that used to be their comrade ( he CAN NOT be as saintly as you guys paint him, can he?). Ponder on this, people.

 

By all means, support the man and hope that he succeeds. I support president Riyaale, even though I know he has many irredeemable faults. I support him because I believe him to be the best of a bad bunch not because I think the sun shines out of his backside. In your case, and that of almost all who support Sheikh Sharif it is a case of blind and unquestioning support (it looks and reeks of a cult following no matter how much you deny it). It is not really a problem, I suppose one must have a hobby of a sort. However, where it becomes a problem is when you (not Xiin in particular) post endless posts telling us how great the man is whilst rubbishing Duke, JB and others that wish to eulogise their own champion. I suppose Arsene Wenger (that's a football/soccer coach for any girls or Americans reading this) was right when he said that every man thinks he has the prettiest wife at home!

 

Cautious support, people. Cautious hope. Cautious optimism.

[Raamsade]

This has to be one the most pathetic and intellectually bankrupt argument against Sh. Shariif. And I have seen a lot of arguments against Sh. Shariif running the whole gamut from: his beard, dress, skin color, his educational background, place of birth, qualification, alleged dishonesty, alleged inconsistencies, alleged desertion and so on. But none of the dirt thrown at Sh. Shariif have stuck. Truly, the man is the consummate Teflon man. If this latest argument is the best his detractors can come up with, then we can safely record another victory for Sh. Shariif.

 

The entire argument against Sh. Shariif boils down to this:

 

Sh. shariif held position x yesterday

he holds position y today

THEREFORE, he is wrong today

 

 

with such logic as the basis for rejecting potential political solutions it's no wonder Somalia is in such a mess.

 

Holding a position in one situation and holding starkly different position in a later situation doesn't prove anything other than one holds different positions. It's true that Sh. Shariif was, for instance, against foreign troops but is now for foreign troops albeit of different kind. The current foreign troops (excluding international jihadists for now) are peacekeepers in Somalia under UN mandate (meaning legally) and with the consent of the recognized Somali government. Ethiopian troops were illegal invaders. But lets for arguendo say they're both the same, how does that show Sh. Shariif is wrong? He could have been right yesterday. Or maybe today. It is the job of those against Sh. Shariif to demonstrate how he is wrong today by virtue of the positions he held yesterday. So far they've been found wanting.

 

Us Sh. Shariif suppers, or me to be more precise, hold the position that there is nothing inconsistent about Sh. Shariif. The realities informing yesterday and today are different and so are his positions. It would be foolish not to change your position when facts change. Moreover, his current positions are mostly correct under the circumstances. It would be more fruitful if his detractors actually repudiated his current positions on their merits.

[Captain Warya]

Shariif Shalay iyo maanta

 

 

********** him and his supporters.

[N.O.R.F]

Ngonge

 

By all means, support the man and hope that he succeeds. I support president Riyaale, even though I know he has many irredeemable faults. I support him because I believe him to be the best of a bad bunch

Ooh, ooh, look at this. Have you just made your whole argument against the Sheikh a redundant one? You acknowledge Riyaale's faults yet STILL support him because you think he is better than his opponents but at the same have a go at those who do the same with Sheikh (even though he has only been in power 5 months)?

 

Another one of Arsene Wenger's famous quotes is 'I didn't see it'

[Emperor]

Duke, get out of here, the man NG has destroyed the argument of many fans, he needs no support hakaqasim bahasha, it's like one against a whole bunch and the score is 10 - 0... Lool

 

NG, great post, although I agree with Duke that you are being too soft and kind to Sheikh Shariif, overall well civilised and very well argued...

 

I have only one problem with you which you kept repeating, and that Sheikh Shariif is like Yusuf Yey, how on earth could you say these men are alike, one is a bafoon, naive little silly confused individual and the other a complte formidable strong manly man, the founder of the state of Puntland, the whistle blower and the man who stood firm against the most feared dictator in Somalia in its heydays, the man who even created the platform Sheik hotel is enjoying today and took that seat to the Villa of the Presidential that was impossible, a man who as we speak today in his retirement enjoying the reception of a stateman, festivities and red carpets... I demand you take that back

[Thierry.]

I will heed Sophist advice and leave the platform for Ngonge and Xiin, I will just add

 

Domestic Achievements:

• Built a formidable cabinet

• Got the Ulema on board

• Got Puntland on board with the nomination of Ina Abdi Rashiid (remember the secession talk)

• Open the platform of negotiation showing that he wants peace

• Won over the masses specially in the conflict zone

• Stood firm and calm against an overwhelmingly armed opposition

• Recruited former Somali Military Officers (who recently had a meeting in the US to formulate a strategy in building the strong national army that we had in the 80’s

• Training & recruitment for the army

• Training & recruitment for the Navy

 

International Achievements:

• Got the funds and pledges of over $200 Million for Security

• Foreign Minster beautifully argued that rather than foreign troop deployment International community should focus on building strong domestic forces.

• Blockaded the source of income and weapon (ports) the opposition use

 

 

These are just some of the many achievements the President has made in less than 5 months. The president has planted the seeds for his term. Even the leader of the “Free world" Obama has achieved less than this humble Geography teacher.

 

The President is not perfect but he is by far the best person to lead the country, the only man universally popular and acceptable to all Somalis.

[LayZie G.]

Dearest NG:

 

 

On the other thread, you asked the folks why are they blindly supporting Sharif, when his national policies, whether it may be domestic or foreign are very similar to that of his predecessor?

 

I would probably say to you, NG, the question is thoughtful and at the same time koser but only if you didn't ask it the 20th time, each time getting an answer similar to the last and the answer is always the same:'

 

"This was never about personality contest between Sharif and A. Yusuf". For most people, Sharif was the man who injected life and energy into the people, motivated the young, and has shown that he would work tires-sly for the people and bring about hope in the hearts of every somali, day and night.

 

The people you asked the question told you, time in and time out that they were never enchanted with the man and charisma had very little to do with their decision to support him, not that his good traits hurt him in any way.

 

He is simply a man who selflessly took up the task of protecting innocent people, men and women, tolka or not tolka. He held up his hand and lifted the spirits of those around him. He made promises to strangers and their children that their son or daughter will safely return home, some promises were fulfilled and some were not. All in all, he always had the best interest of the people.

 

He organized movements locally and eventually moved to the national level.

 

At the time, Sharif was confident with the decision he made to align himself with men of similar faith, men he felt shared his values, principles and his vision for the country he loves and the good people that make Somalia the nation that it is. Men who in turned on him and the shared values and core principles, men he wished would reevaluate their position to serve the greater good and end the violence once and for all. Sharif hopes that his former comrades could come back to their senses in time to carry out their plan of securing the country and bringing about peace and stability together, as a unit. For that, Sharif has no regrets because he did and said what he had to because at the time he had people to protect and a nation to restore.

 

The war was not a war of choice it was a war of necessity. A war to bring about security and governance back to the country, by cleaning up the streets, making the neighborhoods safe for young children, assuring that each child got their fair chance at a decent education. In part, he and others succeeded in their cause. Then came the government and its tyrant leader who refused to comprise, contrary to what some clan based sites reported at the time.

 

A. Yusuf was more of a soldier than he was a politician and you know what they say, once a soldier, always a soldier. The military formula never left A. Yusuf, Under A. Yusuf aka Adeero, the death toll was just a figure. A growing figure (civilian casualties) and very little progress proved disastrous for the old man, so much so that he had to let others take the fall (deep down, he knew he was losing but he couldn't face the possibility of losing the war), hence the firing and hiring of his PM's. For A. Yusuf, he had to do anything and everything to get to the finish line, even if it meant losing tens of thousands of lives at the cost of his "war". The lives that were lost, were just war casualties, it meant nothing to him.

 

Besides, my view of A. Yusuf can be summed up with the following quote by a United States Commander during the cold war, who once said; "Restraint? Why are you so concerned with saving their damn lives? The whole idea is to kill the bast*rds. At the end of the war if there are two Americans and one Russian left alive, we win". To him and other commanders during the nuclear stand off, war casualties were just that, casualties, nothing more or less. They were willing to part with millions of their fellow americans in the name of winning the war, so excuse me if I am wary of former soldiers. In spite of that, I truly understand your skepticism of politicians, I feel the same way about soldiers.

 

Apart from having no position, I never once believed you had ulterior motive where Sharif is concerned.

 

You are right in that you are not a cynic but a skeptic, in that your skepticism is infinite.

 

As for Sharif and his naivete, all I can say is, time will tell, time will tell.

 

For curiosity sake, if Sharif is everything you say he is, in terms of having all the qualities of a good leader, in which you state;

a humble, genuine looking, educated, gentle speaking Geography Teacher, who was once the head of the courts

, why do we need a president or a government? Why can't we govern ourselves?

 

No man is without a flaw, sharif included, ee QEYLIDA AAD WADO DAA.

 

Besides, Sharif is a human being and the day he crosses the line or does not live upto his promise of restoring the republic, thierry or I will be the first to call for his resignation. We won't pull a 'Dukey' or 'Emperor' moment and live in denial.

 

In conclusion, we all want a better result, regardless of who is in charge, as long as you and others are aware that Sharif supporters are concerned as much as all of you, if not more. We just choose not to be as vocal as some of you.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Well put.

 

NG,

 

I don’t see any cult here. If your argument is about shooting down some sort of cult that supports Sharif blindly, then I am afraid this thread is not for me. For the millionth times, our support for Sharif is contingent on his approach, and reasonableness. He has been true to what I believe is the correct approach in going about the Somali conflict. And as long the case remains so, he can count on our support.

 

Now read gabadha caajistay warkeeda, and see to it if you can reason with the pertinent points she has made in her post.

 

As a side note, you really remind me the twelve angry men (the movie), and the man with the cold (a noisy juror) who continues to repeat his prejudices against those in the slum. His deeply held prejudice about the slum kid (the accused) sways him to vote guilty in every jury vote. The facts are before him, other jurors in the room provide him with excellent and superb analysis as to why things aren’t what he repeatedly states they are, yet the man with the cold in that jury room, time after time, casts a guilty vote on the case. Not only that but he has the nerve to lecture others about the validity of his prejudices (slum kids are menace to the society…slums are breeding ground for criminality…those in the slum are liers, so on and so forth.) Why any one does not listen to me? He asks. Why can’t you see what I see? Why don’t you listen to me?

 

I had listened to you. A juror with more privileged background tells him. Now sit down and don’t open your mouth again .

 

Not I am that serous, but you have become annoying as of late. You talk about blind support and false hope, not realizing the absurdity of the 18 year old myth you have been fed to believe. You are asking for accountability and results from 5 months old entity struggling to survive in a tough city in an unstable region yet you confidently tell us that Riyaale’s imaginary egg will in the end hatch.

 

Why the discrepancy awoowe?

[NGONGE]

Raamsade,

When you started with the words 'pathetic and intellectually bankrupt', I thought to myself; here comes a real and interesting debater but then you went on and disappointed me with the drivel that followed! Do you actually understand what you post, my friend?

 

Lets deal with the current troops in Somalia as opposed to the ones that were there BEFORE Sh. Sharif became president. You call one group legal and the other NOT! But, but, but, miss, miss, Sh. Sharif called them both ILLEGAL when he was on the OTHER side of the fence, miss! Is it not Sh. Sharif we are talking about here?

 

You go on and tie yourself in all manner of foolish knots by saying that he is not wrong but that he maybe right today and wrong yesterday however it is up to those questioning him to prove either case! Err, if you cannot challenge and respond to the two long posts I already made , I would seriously advise you to step aside and let someone else do the job, saaxib. You really are not doing the 'cause' any favours here.

 

Norf,

 

Humbug, adeer, Humbug! Quoting half of what I wrote and not following the idea I was presenting through to its clear end is very obtuse. Go sit next to Raamsade.

 

Thierry,

Like a house guest that claims to be full and refuses the food offered to him only to later dip his hand in and say 'I'll just have this one, and this one, and this one', you neither stayed away nor gave a full and robust defence of your hero!

 

Almost all you wrote was also done by the former president! Give me something different and new, adeer. What are you going to tell me next, he decorated Villa Somalia?

 

Xiin,

Don't pull a Norf on me, saaxib. That is not your style. On the Riyaale point, I invite you to read the ENTIRE paragraph I wrote and not just the first sentence (honestly now, this is getting silly).

 

As for it being a cult or not, well, I can only go by what I see, saaxib. However, if you are now telling me that you fully agree with LG's sentiments (above), I am more than happy to let go of your beard.

 

LG,

 

Did you fall and hurt your head sometime during the last few months, darling? Lately, most of what you write comes across as very well thought and reasonable. Technically, though you may deny it (and that's a lady's prerogative after all) you are on my side. I have no bones to pick with you. You admit to the man's faults and past mistakes but choose to support him because of his words, a gut feeling or some sort of intuition on your part. That is fair. I can live with that and people of similar views to yours are not my targets here. I am after the cult, dear.

 

Doubt is good, people, doubt is GOOD.

[Abtigiis]

Ever the heavyweight, Ngonge is tormenting the minnows here with reason and clarity. Ku joog joogso, ngonge!!!

[NGONGE]

^^ I lost two kilos in the past month waryaa.

[N.O.R.F]

Ngonge,

 

From my previous posts you can deduce that I think you’re being hypocritical in stances for Riyaale and against the Sheikh.

 

For a man who has stated, for example, that SL are correct in arresting individuals and sending them to Ethiopia, tried to justify it and continues to support the current Admin who are responsible for the same, it comes as rather surprising that you have in the space of 5 months seemingly produced a lock, stock and barrel case against the Sheikh.

 

When all is said and done I know that whatever the Sheikh has done you actually have no problems with. Would that be correct?

 

ps your first post reminds me of Rafa's rant

[Thierry.]

Ngonge

 

Of course I am going to have a taster when you left your goal empty, I am in line with LG the President isn’t perfect and has made mistakes, just as I have made mistakes in my past political stance. However that in no way diminishes the fact that he is the best person to take this country out of the turmoil.

 

Secondly its only 5 months in which the majority of the time he has been fighting armed oppositions, don’t become an impatient Chelsea owner who replaces the manager every other month. The man has planted the seeds, commend or criticise him on the months leading to the end of his term.

 

Ps: This debate is a loss loss for us, if we win we have ganged up on Ngonge, if we lose the man like George Weah took on the whole team and still scored