Somalia: Is Separation of Religion and State Important?

[Fabregas]

Saxiib, I didn't intend to imply that anything said by a whiteman was worthy of detesting.

 

 

However, the idea that " religon should be seperate from state politics, period" is something that is ultimately rooted in a Western- Historial, Political and Cultural setting. That is, the period of the renaissence and the various upheavels that took place in that part of the World. After a long period of time many people in Europe have come to believe that religon should be kept out of the sphere of politics. The only way this can be applied to the Muslim world is either:

 

1. A revolution or major cultural change

2. Military imposed secularism( like the ones in Turkey or Morocco or Western attempts)

 

 

Neither of those are likely to happen. Thus, Islam will have a role in the politics of the Muslim world in the conceivable future, unless there is a drastic change. In fact, Islam will have more of a role than it does so now. Any political system will have to accomodate some form of Shariah and, probably more-so, the traditional clanish systems such as Elders settling disputes or them occupying positions in the upper house( like in Somaliland). That does mean the people of Somalia wish to be a ruled by a Taliban or Saudi style regime.

They probably do not!

 

Therefore, although, you might passionately believe that religon should be seperate from politics, "period", it is far harder to turn that into action, as the Americans and British have found out. Hence why I said you would have a hard time convincing many people in the Muslim world that should be the case. But as I said before: in the case of SOmalia, it is probably more a case of seperating clanish power struggles from the political than Islam or Secularism. If you want to rule by Islam or Democracy, you have to please all the Qabils and gave them a little security

[unknown1]

Originally posted by Bokero:

Abti...and the rest

 

I am Muslim but i wouldn’t want to live in a nation like Saudi Arabia or any theocratic state... I dont want to see any of accesses of taliban like rule:

WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE TALIBAN.

[Bokero]

is that a question?

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

Laws are like sausages. It's better not to see them being made ~ Otto Van Bismarck. Like the man said lawmaking or governing or politicking is not pretty, should we really open up divine laws to politicians. Most people misunderstand this concept of the separation of religion and the State. They assume that this concept is an attempt to protect the State from few self appointed clergymen who run whatever the dominant religion in the State is. Have you all given some thought to this actually protecting your religion from state interference? Are you really willing to surrender your religious freedoms to the whims of politicians because the opposite of separation of religion and state is state religion where those politicians Somalis of all stripes swear they hate will interfere with your religious freedoms. Before you know it there maybe state sanctioned form of islam, state approved clergy, state approved friday sermons and morality police and hand choppings and state approved hair styles...........

One Last thing, Faith or what a person decides to believe in is a choice but where you are born or what country you are a citizen of is rarely a choice. So just because you are born somewhere, do you not have a right to equal protection? What is to be done with people who leave the state religion and become apostates?

Do you kill them because in a religious state, especially the one you are all arguing for, that is the punishment: death! For people mostly living in the West, mocking the "white or chriastian man or the heathens", remember that you are minorities in your adopted societies and if these heathens listened to what you suggest you would be............

[Peacenow]

Originally posted by Koora-Tuunshe:

Seperation of religion and Politics is not possible, but we have to be able to borrow from politics what is compatible with the tenets of our religion. It was Sheikh Abul Hamid who said that Philosophy goes upward and is frustrated whereas religion goes downward from Heaven and leads to truth and a meaningful understanding of the purpose of life.

Of course it is possible and it is a must. I can live under a benevolent one party rule as long as it develops the country but a Islamic theocracy that worships Arab cultural domination over anything else is simply not acceptable.

 

I refuse to be a slave to arabs.

[Castro]

Originally posted by peacenow:

I refuse to be a slave to arabs.

To whom would you be willing to be a slave?

[NGONGE]

^^ To his whims of course (as any Arab mullah would tell you). And right now he's in the mood for mugging an Arab.

[dhulQarnayn]

This forum is rife with posters who, for myopic reasons, have to collapse discussions which, if allowed to go their own way, sometimes actually lead to the synthesis of new ideas and solutions, into debates, which are by nature bipolar and produce only winners and losers.

 

I guess, this is simply a microcosm of our factional nature as Somalis which has been hijacked by some cocksure individuals who have lost the ability to think creatively, who live in a fearful world dominated by thoughts not of living, but of mere survival.

 

This forum should be re-designated a debate forum, although there are no agreed-upon premises, rules, or judges. You may occasionally stumble across a thread which develops into something more than a pissing contest, but they are few and far between. :confused:

 

dhulQarnayn,

Republic Of California.

[jamaal7777]

I wonder what system will Islam as a state put in place to stop corruption apart from faith that will comply with Islamic laws.

 

Most Islamic states are now nothing but dictatorships and life is really difficult even in those states that have been blessed by huge oil reserves. One man once told me that after they are all done consuming their fossil fuels they will all go back to being sheep, goat and camel herders.

 

The think is if you restrict the ways in which someone can support themselves and their families, you will then have the responsibility to provide for them. If however you let the market, just laws and their abilities do the restrictions, they will have no one to depend on or blame for their inadequacies. When people believe that their failures are due to natural causes they have only one ways to go and that is to look for ways to improve their lot but when they attribute them to personal interventions they fall into depressions or redirect their energies in trying to resist.

 

Unless one is justified one is justified in taking away the peoples right to decide for theri lives the consequences of any restrictions will only cause more harm than good.

 

In a democracy at least you have the people's choice to put a check on would be dictators and the incompetent.