Borama is an evil town

[wind.talker]

Originally posted by LANDER:

the city in question is actually not Borama but Bossasso.

Your post got boring from here on out. We were taught the tactic of compare/contrast back in grade school. You went from overlooking the MESSAGE to attacking the MESSENGER; now, you're focused on attacking the city you presume the messenger is from. BTW, I was born, bred and raised in Kaaraan neighborhood of Xamar Cadey Boosaaso waligay ma arag (except on tapes)! But honestly, feel free to post and discuss how "evil" Boosaaso is (remember, your not a 'Puntlander' and your effort will be dismissed as propaganda). On the other hand, the guy who wrote that Boorama is an evil town is a diehard 'Somaliland nationalist.' What angers you is that he's openly WROTE what many diehard SNM fans hold dear to heart, no? Let it all be in the open, sxb. Easier to discuss and on the heart.

 

Originally posted by Rahima:

They also stated that in reality SL needed Somalia and that this self-governance is a temporary thing till we all get our act together. How do you guys see this?

Dear Rahima (I'm trynta sound like TOLSTOY):

 

Isn't it funny how NO ONE answered your question? 'Somaliland' is a tight-knit community where 97% of the "people" (read: UDUB cheerleaders) voted for independence. I challenge this notion (and so do with your question) but no one answers. Isn't that an answer in and of itself? I hope you caught the drift.

 

Originally posted by Sky:

which i see as pure waste from a fellow puntlander who seems to be knowledgable and bright. what confuses me is that hes supposed to be against the notion of somaliland, yet he is busy on telling what somalilanders should do to get recognized. i mean wtf? :confused:

I've never been against self-determination. The problem is, Somaliland politicians have self-determined the destiny of people that they DON'T represent (namely Sool, Sanaag and Cayn - where opposition is strongest). The other thing is that I believe in this Somali idiom: Hawl aad bilawday ceeb laguma sagootiyo. Somaliland politicians should've finished the work they started in 1991. If they'd taken the correct route from the onset, I don't think they would have a hard time convincing SSC or other folks to join their crusade. But Somaliland's correct route begun in 1997 (before that, too many political battles between Habar this or Habar that), and by '98 Puntland was in existence, giving Reer SSC another option. Therefore, I think the fore-founders of 'Somaliland' had it wrong from the beginning for two reasons: one, they wanted to bring back colonial borders (an impractical issue, given Somalia's post-1991 status); and secondly, they declared independence because they were "victims" (which they were, along with everyone else) of Barre's (alaha u naxaristo) regime! Surely that made the SNM folks unite! But Somaliland is "ideally" supposed to include non-SNM folks. I don't believe they feel this unity.

 

Originally posted by NGONGE:

Be that as it may, I find myself in fact agreeing with Wind-talker (to a certain extent of course).

You (and ADNAAN) are about the only two 'Somalilanders' who at least tried to understand the message without thinking of the messenger. Some people think discrediting my reputation on SOL will make the issue at hand go away. One nomad reasoned: Because of intermarriage between Reer Boorama and Reer Hargeisa (Gabiley, etc) there is a tight bond LOL. Well, in Galkayo, SSDF and USC folks intermarry more than any other Somali clans. Politically, they're very opposed. Marriage between two individuals doesn't necessarily translate into marriage between two political units. I would think that's an easy enough concept for folks to understand.

[AYOUB]

Rahima

The people I know from that region don't share those views. On the other hand, I seen people from Hargeisa who agree with your relatives. It's not black and white I suppose and it also depends how honest people chose be.

 

They also stated that in reality SL needed Somalia and that this self-governance is a temporary thing till we all get our act together.

Well, get your act together then, innit?

 

 

I'm one of those who don't see unification in the horizon for the simple reason it's not in anyone's interest, especially Landers. One of the reasons we're here today is because of union that was rushed and not well-thought. Another factor is;, those waiting for you to 'get your act together' has different and varied intepretations to some including the ones who believe the first step is the acceptance of SL itself. Like the say, a week is a long time in politics but I don't see much hope in something named in 'D woqooyi'.

 

PS explain what you mean SL needed Somalia.

[Gabbal]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

 

Time is really running out. Bragging about buildings, mountains, ‘democratic’ progress and the million other secondary issues has reached saturation point. It’s really time to deal with the issue of nationhood, coin new common goals, ideas and perceptions. It’s time to glorify Somaliland’s own heroes, historical symbols, unique traditions (invent some if you have none) and habits. If all that exists, it’s time that the attention of people like Mr Jama is fully focused on spreading and cementing such issues. These are the things that bind people together, not democratic processes or artificial borders.

Dee inanku ileen waa wadani rug-cadaa ah. Ngonge (the nick from the pages of Out of Africa I presume) you are not required to write me a thesis on the implications of admitting your Patriotic feelings infront of your Somalilander collegues; just a simple yes or no close-ended reply is needed.

[Rahima]

Ayoub,

 

The people I know from that region don't share those views, on the other hand, I seen people from Hargeisa who agree with your relatives.

These my brother were not necessarily my relatives (mine are mainly back in Boorama), but they all expressed this point I was asking of- and we have a considerable reer Boorama population here, more than reer Hargeysa anyway.

 

With this though brother comes the natural sequence of questioning, why is it then would there be a need to bid for independence? It is one thing to self-govern for the time being and a totally different thing to seek complete secession.

 

Well, get your act together then, innit?

But this is my point, regardless of whether or not this was to happen, it seems SLs (with the exclusion of reer Awdal) do not want unity (feel more than free to correct me if i am wrong, i'm only going by the views of most of the SLs on this forum), therefore it questions the argument that SL should be allowed to forge ahead and not be held back by the rest of the country. I think it’s more credibly to argue that “it just is†and “we want to†rather than attribute it to the supposed downfalls of the rest of the country because here the blame is been laid at the feet of folks who in actuality are not the reason for the secession-I’m hoping this makes sense.

 

This is not an attempt to divide SLs (must clarify this before I’m taken to the slaughter house for this ), but just some simple questioning and to possibly highlight that the concept of all SLs seeking secession is not so- some and even arguably possibly a considerable number consider it to be transitional concept until unity can be achieved. Don’t get me wrong, I realize that reer Boorama are all for self-governance and are almost all for SL (as a temporary entity), but the roads seem to diverge on the matter of seeking recognition and independence. I’m sure there are some reer Boorama folks who agree with the secession and the seeking of independence, but in my experience I have not seen any with that line of thinking. I was just inquiring about your views .

 

It is one thing to say that one does not foresee unity in the near future because they don’t believe that the rest of the country will get their act together, but a totally different thing to believe that secession should occur regardless of the circumstances.

 

PS explain what you mean SL needed Somalia.

I did not make that statement (one of the women did) nor did I care to inquire. I was just lazing around at my eedos (my fathers cousin) house when they begun expressing their distaste for CY (mainly over the foreign troops issue) and that had the leader being someone more respectable (i.e. not warlord) and preferably reer Mogadishu (as apparently SLs are more favourable to them) the issue of unity would of have been more promising.

[Sky]

rahima= I did not make that statement (one of the women did) nor did I care to inquire. I was just lazing around at my eedos (my fathers cousin) house when they begun expressing their distaste for CY (mainly over the foreign troops issue) and that had the leader being someone more respectable (i.e. not warlord) and preferably reer Mogadishu (as apparently SLs are more favourable to them) the issue of unity would of have been more promising.

or they were prolly thinking that the 1991 hutu revolution in the south and north (seccesionists) againts the apparently boogieclan that c/yussef hails from has gone down the drain now the boogieclan as your cousin Johnny B formulates it; are back with a capital B. so someone respectable and from mogadishu as a president would have increased the chances of unity and peace more promising soo ma ahan? well c/geddi fits this description and hes prime minister. ama somalis wont settle for anything less than president. that bullshit got us in this mess in the first place.

 

tell your relatives not to worry. the man they wanted (reer mogadishu) and whose not a warlord is the head of government. maybe they should praise c/yussef for choosing someone as PM that was wanted by your relatives and thousands alike.

 

windtalker= I've never been against self-determination. The problem is, Somaliland politicians have self-determined the destiny of people that they DON'T represent (namely Sool, Sanaag and Cayn - where opposition is strongest). The other thing is that I believe in this Somali idiom: Hawl aad bilawday ceeb laguma sagootiyo. Somaliland politicians should've finished the work they started in 1991. If they'd taken the correct route from the onset, I don't think they would have a hard time convincing SSC or other folks to join their crusade. But Somaliland's correct route begun in 1997 (before that, too many political battles between Habar this or Habar that), and by '98 Puntland was in existence, giving Reer SSC another option. Therefore, I think the fore-founders of 'Somaliland' had it wrong from the beginning for two reasons: one, they wanted to bring back colonial borders (an impractical issue, given Somalia's post-1991 status); and secondly, they declared independence because they were "victims" (which they were, along with everyone else) of Barre's (alaha u naxaristo) regime! Surely that made the SNM folks unite! But Somaliland is "ideally" supposed to include non-SNM folks. I don't believe they feel this unity.

well thats not really an answer to my question. i know that you are in favor of selfdetermination. anyone who understand somalias history knows that it is necessary. but the notion of somaliland is in a whole other dimension. its against somali unity. and worse, the carriers of that notion are not even fit to carry that goal. cuz theyre mostly tribalists whom exaggerate their victimhood and see this as a chance to become a big fish in a small pond than a lil tuna in a sea of sharks.

 

now you told me what the somaliland idea carriers could have achieved if they were straightforward and not so antagonistic towards anti-snm reer woqooyis like reer SSC up front and in lesser extent awdalians. bro, doesnt that confirm the old saying; gardarro weligeed ma guuleeysto...

[Rahima]

^You see this is what I never understand with you Sky, do you even understand what is written or somehow or other you choose to read unnecessary things into it.

 

In terms of Somali politics, certain tribes are more favourable to one another than others (or are you going to contest that?), all they said was that reer SL are more favourable to reer Mogadishu then say reer Bossaasso-I did not say this (nor am i aware of any truth to it), nor were they saying it was correct; it just is the sick mentality of Somali politics based on this qabiilist mentality which you have so kindly shown us with your reply. They were hypothesizing under what conditions unity would be more likely (as far as they were concerned), that Somalia elect for itself a non-warlord as a leader, preferably (not a must) from a clan other than that of our former president (somalilanders are not alone in this qabiil mentality, we all are, folks rejected c/qasiim because of the tribe he hails from, some reject CY for the same reason, it is not right, but it happens) and for the country to achieve some success and stability.

 

that bullshit got us in this mess in the first place.

Really? I’m so surprised you even know this, judging by your post, was it not you who so maturely used “hutuâ€, you are swimming in this BS you speak of. And like you care about the "mess" we are supposedly in, the likes of you with your "hutu" this and that are exactly the sorts of people which propagate it.

 

In future perhaps it is best that you look at issues from various perspectives rather than only reading that which you hope it states. The other thing is dude, walaahi you have serious issues to deal with, I’ve told you so many times, ease it up, there are no hidden agendas.

[Aux]

Greeting,

 

From the dawn of time history was written by those who endured it and facts where published by those with no agony or hatred. In every war torn society looting is an adept habit if not a trait amongst those present. Some of the Nomads that are currently present will argue that no looting was done in these areas but where they present at that time. Why would you dismiss something because it is miss-representing your home town. I am certain there are a lot of Somaliland cities that have wronged others and vice versa. It is a fact that a lot of properties where looted from these mentioned cities/towns and that the root the trucks took to get them out was threw Borame. Does that mean Borame itself has benefited or even purchased some of these looted stuff? Ilahay baa oog! From 1988 to 1990 enough property was looted to build a city itself. Barely any homes had roofs, windows, doors, or even basic furniture. What is the probability that someone from the south would take the initiative to loot these things and carry it all the way to Xamar? Not likely because Xamar itself was looted by its own residents and had plenty of goods to be stolen. During this time I remember my cousin was building a home in Jabouti and he was looking for material. I am ashamed to say that most of these materials where so cheap and plenty for him. They where channeled through Zaylac and some of it even went to Harrar iyo Dire Dawa. A four bedroom house in Dire Dawa was being built for $5000 US during the early 90’s.

 

 

So the question is not whether looting was done or not it is an actual FACT. But whether Reer Awdal accomplished it or not is UNKNOWN! You can’t accuse a whole province based on goods stolen from your area. This curse that has befallen Borame is nonsense! I agreed with Lander that unless one is blinded by hatred, most of these people will realize that their destinies are intertwined. Inter-marriage is very common between Reer Awdal and those who live in close proximity to them.

 

 

P.S. Some of us are young and only wave the Somaliland flag because we are programmed if not taught. But it would be wise to learn history from sincere individuals that don’t’ have hate or biasness. FYI, Farah is an SNM veteran and one of the individuals that liberated SL. For this reason we should forgive him and for this reason you should over look his faults! The old veteran could be senile for all we know.

 

 

P.S.S Rahima it would be wise to go to Borame and do an actual survey rather then taking the opinion of Temporary independence from your local Awdalites. A few hundred can’t determine the co-existance of a whole population. When referendum was done in all of Somaliland, did you know Borame was leading the polls next to Hargeisa? Result was 97% in all major cities of Somaliland combined. Such a figure doesn’t even occur in democratic states like the west.

[Rahima]

^I have been, but certainly not for reasons of taking a poll .

 

My question was not based on the administration or self-governance, rather the seeking of independence and recognition as an independant country on the world stage.

 

It may not be the case across the board, this was nothing more than simple questioning. Nothing more, nothing less.

[VisiT]

The title of the article was 'The Dark Side of Borame Town and its Residents' and not 'Borama is an evil town'. The author of the article it seems, though disdainfully depicting Borama, doesn't in any place say 'Borama is evil town' and nothing else. His title rather portrays Borama as having a 'darker' side, which means there is a brighter side too. If he insists that Borama has a dark side only then the author will be guilty of logical fallacy. What makes darkness is brightness.

 

So Wind, whatever the initial title of the article, you seem to have doctored it - to show, that is, your inconsiderateness and contempt. I am sure if you could've posted the initial article with its original title, you could've deflected all blame from yourself. But now that cannot be the case now. You are as much implicated in this mud-slinging as the author is. You have doctored the title to give the artilce an edge and to show the level of your enmity and venom.

[wind.talker]

...So Wind, whatever the initial title of the article, you seem to have doctored it - to show, that is, your

inconsiderateness and contempt

...You have doctored the title to give the artilce an edge and to show the level of your

enmity and venom

.

Two words: Sue me!

[VisiT]

^^^ Wait till I get my papers ready, you will see .

[Johnny B]

Originally posted by Sky:

or they were prolly thinking that the 1991 hutu revolution in the south and north (seccesionists) againts the apparently boogieclan that c/yussef hails from has gone down the drain now the boogieclan as your cousin Johnny B formulates it; are back with a capital B. so someone respectable and from mogadishu as a president would have increased the chances of unity and peace more promising soo ma ahan? well c/geddi fits this description and hes prime minister. ama somalis wont settle for anything less than president. that bullshit got us in this mess in the first place.

Huba Huba !! Sky man , I don´t mind beeing quoted as i brup wisdom very often, but not out of context, aight??

 

I´m actually honored to have been preceived as Rahima´s cousin ,I just hope Rahima accepts me as cousin JUST to make your nightmare TRUE.

 

but Hey if you wanna get personal you getta know us first, unless you´ve lots of monsters in your closet.

Boi ama living legend n i don´t even KNOW about it

As for your pathetic Question of who would "Awdelians" prefer as a Somali president as they see Somaliland a temporary n fit for the time beeing.

 

Colonel Yey is the most polorizing figure in Somali politics, even some trees turn away when he passes by , Only Cuctus gives him a forged smile

[Rahima]

^I can think of better ways to give the boy nightmares , but my mum taught me to never pick on people

 

Watch the reaction folks,loool !

[LANDER]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

Sometimes, after reading a particular article or having a political discussion with a fellow Somali (Somalilander), I’m left confused, numb and melancholic! The approach of Somaliland’s independence celebrations and the events of the recent past in Somalia (South, as a friend of mine likes to call it), have contributed to an increase in the sense of despair to which I alluded shortly. This thread is another depressing example.

 

[...] If you’re a Somali Republic proponent and are against Somaliland’s goals, come forth with your opposition, present your arguments and try to win converts. But don’t risk your own integrity to achieve that goal. Likewise if you’re a Somalilander!

Furthermore, and because the article highlighted divisions in Somaliland, if you are a Somalilander, is it not time you thought long and hard about such divisions? Their origins? Ways to eradicate them? The way forward, etc?

 

Time is really running out. Bragging about buildings, mountains, ‘democratic’ progress and the million other secondary issues has reached saturation point. It’s really time to deal with the issue of nationhood, coin new common goals, ideas and perceptions. It’s time to glorify Somaliland’s own heroes, historical symbols, unique traditions (invent some if you have none) and habits. If all that exists, it’s time that the attention of people like Mr Jama is fully focused on spreading and cementing such issues. These are the things that bind people together, not democratic processes or artificial borders.

Ngonge,

Seems you’ve highlited a vague blue print for political discourse between two sides and left out one important ingredient, being your own take on the various issues. I’ve read some of your grievances with respect to Somaliland over many threads, but it seems to me (if I should be bold enough to presume here) that you don’t clearly express your view point on Somaliland. Granted on doesn’t necessearilly have to have a clearly defined stance, but your objections often seem how should I say…all over the place?

So why don’t you start us off with your single most fundamental objection/grievance/criticism and we’ll take it from there.

 

p.s. glad to see you've taken your calacaal out of the may 18th threads

[Sky]

johnny b, no offense but you write as if u come from a mental institution. he gets quoted and jump around thinking:

Boi ama living legend n i don´t even KNOW about it

just get a hold on yourself kid.

 

anyway, i could make up of that incoherent post that you want to scare me, give me nightmares and so and so **yawn**.

 

what do you wanna do? you cant loot the same property twice, aint that so rahima?

 

 

gotta go johhny and rahima, thxn for the laugh.