Debate Kenya Peace conference??

[General Duke]

Thanks to Qhudhac for opening this topic,

 

The Kenyan conference has traumatised those of us who where hoping that these people could come to their senses..

 

However I doubt that any so called national conference will ever work in Somalia, there needs to be a new approach in which emphasis is based on local initiatives.

Empowering the common man is important in order to resolve the hotspots, for example look at Xeeraale and Xaramka in Juba why is so much blood being shed in two small towns? The fact that people from these two towns are in Kenya sitting next to each other smiling says so much for the power and influence of so called Somali leaders.

 

Peace should start town by town region by region and then at the national level. It should be done by Somali’s who are sincere about peace and real reconciliation.

 

 

I gree with Shiekh Yassin

Furthermore, increased control/power(s) should be given to religious groups, civil society and tradition leaders; rather than warlords, would-be warlords, and politicians.

[miles-militis]

Qudhac – Excellent idea mate. I’ve got a couple of things to throw in with regards to the peace conference.

 

One is to do with the Somali problem whereas the other is to do with the process of the conference.

 

With respect to the scrape in Nairobi, this is what I observe for the moment. Here you have got a team comprising of Somali political leaders [prefer it to warlords] some with political strategy and clear agenda, others with no such clear plan. The team formed, and is now in its “storming” phase – the most difficult stage of all negotiations. It is paramount for teams to go through this stage, and if an attempt is made to circumvent the process, which is what has been done by IGAD reps, then failure pursues. The cause for the “act of storming” which demands resolve on all parties has unfortunately been diminished in lieu of its being dealt with full front. IGAD reps are trying to frogmarch the process and the team to the adjourning stage, thusly the invention of the infamous retreat. This I trust was done to camouflage their failure in showcasing the balance sheet with haplessly dressed P&L appearing so poorly to anyone with conflict resolution expertise. Whilst I remain encouraged, and the longer the process continues, the likelier it nears to bear organic effect, I must disagree with the notion that the conference is a failure despite its appearance to have prematurely reached its anti-climax.

 

More importantly, it is important to understand the nature, and root cause of the Somali infirmity [sic] prior to prescribing medication to the problem. Unfortunately, that does not seem to have happened in the Somali case to date, and as such no proposal however well-ventilated or conferred could be of much value unless the problem is objectively defined, and identified.

 

I say so, not to rule out the proposals you put forth, but to perhaps postpone the curing of the malice, and to subject the problem to a pulverising and meticulous examination.

 

It is a political issue which demands political resolution, and neither technical nor legal ruling. Do you agree? If no, then what do you reckon is at the heart of the problem? And what is your understanding of the Somali problem as a whole? Once we have defined the problem, then we could perhaps streamline the discussion to a greener plateau than it had thus far landed upon.

 

Your input, please?

Cheers.

[Kowneyn]

Somalilanders are the natural peace brokers among Somalis and if they had the right spunk they would claim this role as their heritage and its sole propreitor.

 

As for the international community, I think they should start by creating a war crimes tribunal for Somalis. Such tribunal would render justice and also effectively disqualify many of the subversive characters still active in Somali politics both in Somaliland and Somalia.

 

Kowneyn

[miles-militis]

Kownayn - Care to elaborate on this mate:

"Somalilanders are the natural peace brokers among Somalis and if they had the right spunk they would claim this role as their heritage and its sole propreitor"

[Kowneyn]

Samurai:

 

I think I will let time and the future elaborate that statement.

 

Kowneyn

[Warmoog]

Originally posted by Samurai Warrior:

I say so, not to rule out the proposals you put forth, but to perhaps postpone the curing of the malice, and to subject the problem to a pulverising and meticulous examination.

Great point. Diagnosis of the problems must always precede the search for a cure. I have my own theories about the roots of Somalia’s ‘infirmity’, as brother Samurai put it, but if an eventual diagnosis of the ailments in Somali polity calls for such close scrutiny (which I think it seriously does), the first question that comes to my mind is how long will it take?

 

At the forefront of my thoughts and, no doubt, those of many others is the simple fact that Somalis have been ‘reaping what they’ve sewn’ for the past 13 years. I’m almost certain some of those faction leaders wouldn’t object to lounging in their hotel suites for another 2 years, but ordinary people in Somalia are still struggling. Time is of the essence. So I think we need to ask ourselves two critical questions, among a torrent of many.

 

Do our people deserve a flawed quick fix (as will come out of the Kenyan conference… if anything comes out of it at all)? Or do they deserve clean, thorough reforms from the ground up? My questions are obviously soaked with personal bias, but my point is that time is a considerable issue in itself.

 

Salaama.

[Qudhac]

Samurai

 

its true somalilanders are generally better at resolving local clan orientated disbutes than our southern brothers, culturally somalilanders put more enthasis on the "Elders" and while the southers seem to respect "polititians" more than local elders, so historically when problem arises each person or clan would bring their cheif elder where they would sit under a tree and negotiate for peace and their word is generally excepted as final.

 

in the south an average person is more politically orientated/aware than someone in somaliland, due to how the two regions developed under two politicaly different colonial powers. The British Used to practice hands off approach approach when it comes to political interactions with locals, they didnt involve the locals with their wester politics and way of doing things,

 

in contrast the Italians practice whats called hands-on approach they involved the local population with all levels of politics, they introduced new way of doing things too quickly like western laws, courts, politicians, the western hierarchical systems where everything must be top-down.

 

 

Today

 

somalia still suffers from that, right now these countries are trying impose on somalis a top down hierarchical system of solving problems, even though we are a society who culturally solve everything from bottom up, its like what americans are doing in Afghanistan impose on it a governments that is based on western princible rather than clan orientated roots up which is loosely inter connected through clan, and this is simply not working as it is allien to the local population.

 

 

The west are obsessed with "Government" in somalia but their way of creating this "government" is totally alien to somali culture its like trying to put squere peg in circle hole. so as long as they cant somehow interconnect the new administration and the people on a local level then it will just be seen as some botch up plan by foreiners who dont represent the people.

 

 

KOWEYN

 

Its a two way process if somaliland is to commit itself to mediating for somalia then they would have to acknolewdge it first, but until then we gana stand opposite each other and watch each other :cool: :mad:

[miles-militis]

Dear Yasmine – to answer your initial question “ a flawed quick fix ” does more harm than good dear lady, as you quite justly pointed out, thusly is to be regarded merely as such. And most definitely, the people of Somalia DO deserve a better hand than fate [if one believes it] had dealt them thus far.

 

“… thorough reform from ground up ” I concur is what must be sought prior to all other approaches.

 

Here is the dilemma, and here lies the depth of the Somali problem, and in order to demonstrate the point I shall adopt a cognitive stratagem in the context of critical validation. Contrast of ideas, clarifications of myths, exploration of beliefs, arguments and theories, avoidance of oversimplifications, development of criterion, comparative perspectives and interpretations, reasoning of arguments, credibility of views, qualifications of sources and dialectic reasoning shall be adopted through this discussion for the purpose of this exercise, which might stretch over lengthy periods.

 

For a problem of any genre to be tackled, there ought to be persons, even a few, not only qualified to seek a “fix” for it, but fully, succinctly comprehend its nature, stages, causes, and ramifications. That I dare say does not seem to be case in the Somali context. And to clarify my point, allow me to share this anecdote – a while back I recall attending a discussion delving into the fibre of the Somalia issue in the context of “Somalia Africa’s problem child” with a group of Somalis in the realm of academia. All except ONE, and believe you me all were of high calibre cerebrals, presented what he (unfortunately no sheS there) viewed to be the best resolution to the Somali dilemma. Later than evening, the ONE and I found ourselves struggling with the experience. Prior to reaching our conclusion, we asked ourselves this question: could a nurse irrespective of her revelations perform effectively successful heart surgery? A unanimous no, came the reply. Parallel, analogous to that was this question: why then expect amateur politicians to address a composite political situation which demands [with a capital D] technocratic representational approach? In other words, the Somali problem and the expertise possessed by the Somali politicians hardly match – the former requires intrinsic, genuine, cognitive approach along with technocratic expertise whilst the later lacks any such skills, hence the eternal Somali quandary. How then could Somalia be salvaged, we pondered over many hours? Conclusion – it is a political issue, therefore let the politicians deal with it irrespective of their training and backgrounds. No one is more equipped and better informed than they are to work out a resolution. That is why I do still consider the Nairobi conference to be of the second best chance to reaching a resolution to Africa’s problem child.

 

In Somalia today there are embryonic administrative entities with promising, fledgling prospects with regional institutionalisation process taking shape in some areas more so than others. This supports your theory of “ thorough reform from ground up”, and here I trust lies the resolve for the Somali predicament, which I shall explore later in the dialogue. This merely not only recognises existing administrations, but attempts to empower those in authority – a formulae sidestepped in the Arta conference, the first government building initiative in Somalia. This served the basis for the Nairobi conference at its inception, yet lost momentum along the way arguably due to competing peripheral forces.

 

Qudhac – I am in agreement with some of the points you raised, old chap, mainly regarding administrative styles 'ween the two sects, but how does the case of Puntland, Hiiraan, Sh/Dhexe, all in the south in accordance with colonial legacy, differ from that of Somaliland? See if you could chew on this for a while mate?

 

Duty call my dear, so I got to dash,

See if you further grind the grain, as it were,

Cheers.