Is it really for islam :

[cream]

Just wanted to hear others opinions, it makes me sad some of the articles i see on the internet about somalia.

 

Somalia on the bbc

 

This especially disgusted me . How can you demolish mosques in allahs name ?? and dig out graves of your own people ??

[Nur]

Cream sis

 

Desecration of graves is forbidden in Islam as well as Grave Worship. The above news report about the religious group that is alleged to have desecrated the grave of dead "Saints" is written by a Somali correspondent for the BBC World Service, wholly owned by the British government and not by a reliable neutral news source for this particular incidence.

 

Allah SWT says in Surah Al Xujuraat V6 in the Holy Quraan: O you who believe, if a news is brought to you by a Faasiq ( Out Law, From Law of Allah), VERIFY the news ( get the total picture, the CONTEXT and MOTIVES etc) lest you defame a group of people with ignorance, and later regret what you have committed (your libelous statements)

 

The British Government is on record to have indirectly supported the toppling of the Islamic Courts of Somalia, which for the first time brought the semblance of governance to Somalia in 16 years, by the proxy Ethiopian Army, which among many crimes against humanity, have desecrated mosques, raped Somali women and killed scores of civilians in a two year period. BBC did not cry for the dead, nor protest the civilian slaughter, the raped and maimed Somalis then, now that a rival group to the poodle criminal warlord government that they staunchly support is in a predicament, its understandable that their propoganda effort is reaching out for hired Somali pens who can inspire new round of civil war, this time religious in nature, between what the author termed in an inflammatory way, as a duel between the Wahabism, and the Sufi orders in Somalia.

 

Before you get mad at any group in Somalia, do some research about the history of this rivalry, American Intervention for the past 20 years, and the creation of the Synthetic "Sufi Fighters" group of Somalia, reminiscent of Sunni- Shia Civil War in Iraq, created by British SAS to do the dirty work that Ethiopia, Uganda, Burundi and the TFG combined, failed to deliver, financed with over 300 Million Dollars of indirect foreign investment to prolong Somalia's woes.

 

 

Nur

[Positive]

Previously posted by Nur

 

Desecration of graves is forbidden in Islam as well as Grave Worship. The above news report about the religious group that is alleged to have desecrated the grave of dead "Saints" is written by a Somali correspondent for the BBC World Service, wholly owned by the British government and not by a reliable neutral news source for this particular incidence.

 

Allah SWT says in Surah Al Xujuraat V6 in the Holy Quraan: O you who believe, if a news is brought to you by a Faasiq ( Out Law, From Law of Allah), VERIFY the news ( get the total picture, the CONTEXT and MOTIVES etc) lest you defame a group of people with ignorance, and later regret what you have committed (your libelous statements)

 

The British Government is on record to have indirectly supported the toppling of the Islamic Courts of Somalia, which for the first time brought the semblance of governance to Somalia in 16 years, by the proxy Ethiopian Army, which among many crimes against humanity, have desecrated mosques, raped Somali women and killed scores of civilians in a two year period. BBC did not cry for the dead, nor protest the civilian slaughter, the raped and maimed Somalis then, now that a rival group to the poodle criminal warlord government that they staunchly support is in a predicament, its understandable that their propoganda effort is reaching out for hired Somali pens who can inspire new round of civil war, this time religious in nature, between what the author termed in an inflammatory way, as a duel between the Wahabism, and the Sufi orders in Somalia.

 

Before you get mad at any group in Somalia, do some research about the history of this rivalry, American Intervention for the past 20 years, and the creation of the Synthetic "Sufi Fighters" group of Somalia, reminiscent of Sunni- Shia Civil War in Iraq, created by British SAS to do the dirty work that Ethiopia, Uganda, Burundi and the TFG combined, failed to deliver, financed with over 300 Million Dollars of indirect foreign investment to prolong Somalia's woes

 

It has to be imperative then that we all become mouthpiece for peace. How else can we come out of this web of predicaments in which, among other things, fraternal slaughtering and destruction of the fabric of the country is justified by even many educated and intelligent somalis !

 

It does not make sense to say there are amongs us murtids or takfiirs whose blood is justified to take and at the same breath say foreigners are responsible for the bloodshed. By definition it has to be the one or the other because either we are the handlers of our war and foreigners are merely taking advantage of the situation or the foreigners are the real handlers and all of us are doing their job - knowingly or unknowingly!

 

It takes two to dance tango. Peace looks remote unless tha waring groups reach out one another!

 

The Awakener2

[NGONGE]

I wonder who Nur thinks Universal TV is owned by!

[Positive]

The Universal TV may belong to Xaayows and Xalimos and could at the sametime be promoting the interests of others than the people and vice-verse.

 

How does it make difference?

 

The Awakener2

[Polanyi]

Originally posted by cream:

Just wanted to hear others opinions, it makes me sad some of the articles i see on the internet about somalia.

 

Somalia on the bbc

 

This especially disgusted me . How can you demolish mosques in allahs name ?? and dig out graves of your own people ??

ASWRB. I have posted an explanation of this issue Here . If you understand SOmali, there is an audio explanation of this issue from a well known Somali Scholar.

[Nur]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

I wonder who Nur thinks Universal TV is owned by!

I know the owner personally, but I am not fond of his polarized media programming due in part to his strategic "business-cum political correctness" required for business continuity purposes in Ngongeland.

 

Nur

[Warrior of Light]

What a shame, instead of putting more effort in peace establishing schools and providing basic human needs. Alshabaab are desecrating graves n mosques,beating women etc.. These people are really undermining the real message of Islam and are abusing power if you ask me.

[Nur]

Ukhti Al Faadhilah, WOL

 

The removal of graves from the reach of the ignorant worshiping public is a measure of PEACE and SECURITY * for the nation. Allah told the Muslims in Surah Nur that if they stop all forms of Shirk, that He will protect them from all evil and fear.

 

"Allah has promised those among you who believe, and do righteous good deeds, that He will certainly grant them succession to (the present rulers) in the earth, as He granted it to those before them, and that He will grant them the authority to practice their way of Life aka DEEN, that which He has chosen for them (i.e. Islam). And He will surely give them in exchange a safe security after their fear (of the whole world posing as a threat against them, provided) they (believers) worship Me and do not associate anything (in worship) with Me. But whoever disbelieved after this, they are the Fasiqun (rebellious, disobedient to Allah)". Surah Nur, Verse 55.

 

The word Desecrating Which even I have used before justifies the actions of the Shabaab, the graves after all are NOT SACRED and if found them being taken as SACRED, its firmly Allah's order to remove them from being an object of worship.

 

Before the Shabab there was another youth who destroyed objects of worship, his name was " Fatan yuqaalu lahu Ibraahim", Young Abraham, and his people were as angry for his action as the whole world is today with the Shabaabs action, that young man has made his legacy, that whenever mankind got lost from the path of Allah's worship, that they go back to the drawing board and begin with TAWHEED again.

 

Allah has promised the believers that

 

1. He will give them the Khilaafah on earth

2. He will establish a firm rule of law that can not be toppled by outsiders like the last short lived ICU rule.

3. He will secure them from fear of enemies.

 

If They perform two Commandments;

 

1. Worship Allah

2. DO NOT PRACTICE SHIRK ( ALLOW SHIRK PRACTICES)

 

 

*True Peace and security is issued ONLY by Allah, read the Hadeeth, that if the entire world attempts to harm you, that they can't without Allah's permission. Also Allah SWT says that those who believe and do not cover their iman with a cloak of ZULM aka SHIRK, those alone indeed deserve SECURITY and those are truly the guided ones

 

 

Nur

[Positive]

What is needed is removal of ignorance about how we should relate to the graves; it is about informing the people the proper Islamic way of visiting the graves; an informed Muslim citizen is the best grantee for PEACE and SECURITY for the nation.

 

The proper Islamic way permits to visit the graves of the deceased but it is not permissible to worship the graves; all Islamic schools of thought, including the Sufis, agree on that precept.

 

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) used to visit graves, and he would recite du’aa’s for the dead for example “Al-salaamu ‘alaykum ahl al-diyaar min al-mu’mineen wa’l-Muslimeen, wa inna in sha Allaah bikum laahiqoon, nas’al Allaaha lana wa lakum al-‘aafiyah (Peace be upon you, O people of the dwellings, believers and Muslims. If Allah wills we will join you. We ask Allah to grant us and you safety).

 

As long as the intention of a visit to a grave is confined to du'aa ( asking Allah forgiveness for the deceased and others) one is legally on safe ground otherwise any other reason which brings the person to the grave including worship or digging out the remains of the deceased without the proper Islamic procedure are wrong.

 

The Awakener2

[Warrior of Light]

Waleikum Salaam Brother Nur,

 

I think we differ a little on how we look at this matter. To me the approach the Al shabaab took it's wrong. The intention of removing Shirk maybe pure but it's only an assumpation as Somalia is/ was 100% Muslim..Likewise the comparison of Our Loved and blessed Nabii Ibrahim shouldnt be used in this context in it's entirety either. Nabii Ibrahim was in an infidel atmosphere all the occupants of his town were Idol worshippers instead the people in Barave/ somalia are Muslims.

 

Instead what Alshabaab would have done is hold a shura council reminded the people of their obligations as muslims and what Islam says about visiting graveyards. Assuming I am also an inhabitant of one of the Barave cities it doesnt mean I and all inhabitants indulge in this shirk. It maybe culturally acceptable and whispered around that poeple do it but in reality only 2-3% group of the population who indulge in it. So through education these people could have been taught what is right and wrong. All I see with Alshabaab is abuse of power and no real education of Islam and bringing peace to the Muslims. The Prophet Muhammad SAW was very lenient and accomodating on teaching the Deen to his people and especially to the New Muslims. Somalia is compromised of old Muslims's, new Muslims and muslims who are more culturally inclined... so we have a couldron of different Islamic doctrinations.. Overnight you cant brand this is better than that instead through Shura, education and action you can elevate the state of the people to be better Muslims and citizens of the world.

 

Something I didnt/ dont understand why mosques were destroyed? Shouldnt have Alshabaab reclaimed the mosque and bring them(the Ummah and reputation) back to their old and pure intention "To worship only Allah". With all the destruction in somalia every standing building and especially a mosque should be sacred.

 

And it is for this reason Alshabaab are not getting support even from fellow Muslims because of their approach. Education, education is the key as well as Hikmah on implementing the Islamic ideals.

 

Positive,

I totally agree with your conclusion. " the purity of intention" and the need of people to be educated.

[Nur]

Awakener bro. writes:

 

"As long as the intention of a visit to a grave is confined to du'aa ( asking Allah forgiveness for the deceased and others) one is legally on safe ground otherwise any other reason which brings the person to the grave including worship or digging out the remains of the deceased without the proper Islamic procedure are wrong"

 

 

I fully concur with this statement too.

 

 

WOL sis

 

Four questions:

 

1. How much of the information on what is going on in Somalia ( Baraawe included) do you get from, the Shabaab, Their opponents or neutral parties?

 

2. When you say Abraham's people were Kuffar, don't you know that they were worshiping Allah by remnants of Noah's faith? and that step by step, they introduced innovations in faith that culminated in idol worship? likewise, Jews, and Qureish used to worship Allah based on Abraham's faith and again they have diverged from the Siratul Mustaqeem?

 

3. Is in it then illogical that followers of Prophet Muhammad, 9who claim that they are "Muslims" which means "surrender to Allah SWT" are in practice surrendering to other than Allah in deed and taking other than Allah as protectors and Waliyy from which they seek in their grave visitation, to aid them, give them children if they are barren, make Nadr for their needs, take holy sand to put on their forehead like the Hindu, and to believe that the dead saint has powers even when dead to come to their aid? Do you consider this a form of Islam that is acceptable by Allah SWT?

 

4. If for the last 30 years, Somali scholars have educated the public on the Shirk nature of these graves that are raised like Hindu Temples, and to this day, its still in practice and political groups are reviving the dormant grave worship as a tool of disruption of the peace the Shabab has established in the territories they control, how long more would you suggest the Shabab educate the grave worshipers and when can they act to demolish these graves?

 

Sis, Islam does not need popular support, people need Islam, Islam does not need people, Allah SWT says in Quraan :

 

"They regard as favour upon you (O Muhammad ) that they have embraced Islam. Say: "Count not your Islam as a favour upon me. Nay, but Allah has conferred a favour upon you, that He has guided you to the Faith, if you indeed are true." Surah Xujuraat, verse 17

 

Nur

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

So you believe forcing your beliefs on others? Read my quote, its from the quran...

[Positive]

Nur wrote:

 

Is in it then illogical that followers of Prophet Muhammad......are in practice surrendering to other than Allah in deed and taking other than Allah as protectors and Waliyy from which they seek in their grave visitation, to aid them, give them children if they are barren, make Nadr for their needs, take holy sand to put on their forehead like the Hindu, and to believe that the dead saint has powers even when dead to come to their aid?

 

I agree with Nur that one should exclusively surrender only to God. In the same way that a dead mother can not breast-feed her new born baby likewise a dead person can not come to the aid of anyone in this side of Life; this is not only a correct religious stand but it is also a logical one; nevertheless if a person or a group have wrong perception about a subject what is needed first is to create a conducive environment where truth could flourish and people could have peace and time for reflection.

 

It nutshell communicating the truth to one another is more productive way than going to war.

 

Besides all the waring groups in Somalia should work for the formation of national government instead of doings actions which may attract the headlines as the case has been for the last one and half year.

 

Nur wrote:

 

If for the last 30 years, Somali scholars have educated the public on the Shirk nature of these graves that are raised like Hindu Temples, and to this day, its still in practice and political groups are reviving the dormant grave worship as a tool of disruption of the peace the Shabab has established in the territories they control, how long more would you suggest the Shabab educate the grave worshipers and when can they act to demolish these graves?

 

In the scheme of Life 30 years is nothing. Why would we be hasty when in fact our actions are otherwise destructive and among other things innocent blood has to be shed every day! Why would we be selfish by thinking to receive all the hasanaat for ourselves or wish to leave little for the generation after us!

 

People do not prefer to be ruled but they want to be consulted and wish to become participants in the formation of their fate. You know what I mean if you have children; the same way that it is neither productive nor civilized to fight with your children when they disagree with you but have to show patience and seek to have dialogue with them so would you treat your brother in faith but also as an equal when you disagree.

 

One should pratice to approach differences in a mental state of peace and , if possible, in serenity and in the process learn to sort out differences in dialogue even if this takes year. That is what Islam(peace) is about.

 

The proper path is not to harm your Muslim brother or sister in word or hand.

 

The Awakener2

[Nur]

Naxar

 

Akhi al kareem

 

The verse in Al Baqara that you have quoted is in a context, let us have a look at that context:

 

256 There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.

 

257 Allah is the Wali (Protector or Guardian) of those who believe. He brings them out from darkness into light. But as for those who disbelieve, their Awliya (supporters and helpers) are Taghut (false deities and false leaders, etc.), they bring them out from light into darkness. Those are the dwellers of the Fire, and they will abide therein forever.

 

The verse was revealed in Madina, when the Prophet SAWS was in full control of the Islamic State in Madina. The verses stressed the right of belief for those who were originally Polytheists and people of the Book, BUT DID NOT IMPLY RIGHT TO ESTABLISH TEMPLES OF WORSHIP OF THEIR IDOLS NOR RIGHT TO UNDERMINE ISLAM.

 

You have to remember ISLAM is the STATE as well as the RELIGION, by openly worshiping graves, the violator is violating both the state law, the Sharia and religion in one go. For an eye opener, ask Sarkozy why he bans the Muslim women's veil in France? because, its the state that is threatened by ISLAM, thus any open display of Islam is banned.

 

 

Nur