SOL has become a propoganda trashpin against Islam

[Alle-ubaahne]

War meeshaan waa halowday walaahi, caay iyo dicaayad diinta Islaamka wax looga sheegaayo iyo shareecada Islaamka ayaa mar walba arkeysaa.

 

War ninkii lahaa SOL ma wuusan ka baqeynin in ilaahey maalinta qiyaame weydiiyo meeshaan uu furay sida diinta loogu xumeeynaayo, mise waxaa sharaf la mooday in qofka uu sida gaalada camal u hadlo oo hadana la yiraahdo waa 'freedom of speech spirit?'

 

Waa cajiib, war ilaahey halaga cabsado, oo diinta Islaamka iyo ku dhaqankeeda aan wax ka sheegeyno iska deyno. Markii hore waxaadba ku fiicneydeen qabiilkaan baas oo aad mashquulka ku aheydeen, laakiin maanta waxaad faraha lasoo gasheen diintii ilaahey oo aad si cad wax uga sheegeysaan.

 

Bal maxaa diinta laga siiyaa kuwaan?

[Coloow]

Assalamu Calaykum,

Something has happened during the months I was away. This place used to be a place to discuss somali politics. Even those who opposed the prevailing viewpoints made so from critical thinking.

 

In June when I left for Africa, the topic of discussion was the warlords(warthogs) holding the muqdisho/southern masses as hostages. These thugs were crticised; the somali problem it was claimed was warlords like qanyare, dhuxulow, yalaxow, you name it.

 

The saying went: If Muqdisho succeeded in getting rid of warlords and embark on a process of reconciliation, reduced the risks of death by a ****** and formed some form of governance then somalis were likely to succeed.

 

A general view shared by many was the formation of the TFG. Many claimed-with all rights that these TFG represented the dark history of somalia. Warlords and tribal chiefs who instigated murder, hate, rape and clanism as a weapon of power became MPs.

 

I came back to Europe in October and logged on my favourite site and what did I find? A polarisation of opinions; Some of the people who were in the forefront in criticising the normenculture of warlordism , tribalism etc were suddenly becoming vocal in smearing the efforts of the IUC.

 

Of course, one could criticise the IUC. They are not perfect; they have done (or reported to have done) somethings that are not that flattering .

 

But, they have succeeded where warlordism failed: They've tamed the warlords, created some form of peaceful life for those who were held hostage.

 

 

I came to the following conclusions:

 

There are amidst us some people who wouldn't settle for anything less than their next of kin as a president (ironically, they wouldn't even accept a cousin if there is brother is a contender).

 

Colour change is common: You see someone supporting the status quo today but next week this same person would support something that he/she criticised.

 

The reality is that many of us don't even live in somalia. We live in nations that are not run by our tribes. We enjoy life, work, make a living: from this sanctionary we have become the mouthpiece of a discourse on somali politics. We are using our intellect in enhancing a tribal propaganda- what a shame!!!!!

 

I hope that the moderators/adminstrators urge those who COPY and PASTE articles from tribal websites to refrain from that. Many somali websites are in fact tribal cafes- and the last thing visitors of SOL want to read is news from Daynile, Allpuntland etc.

[rudy-Diiriye]

so home boy! you think the killings and shutting down of xamar is cool!! i smell clan blood ozzing outta of u! as the saying goes blood is thicker than water.

 

clan court is nothing but same old fools dressed in differnt grab..! and actually clansim is more live in the west than in somalia. however, we face a grim future, only way is us to get united and become nation, not some radicals or warlord havens....!

 

wc..! i hope u still hidding some deep dormant good ole african waanos to share with us! we are sick n tired of copy/paste shyte..! how come ppl dont say whats in their minds!!

[Kashafa]

There are amidst us some people who wouldn't settle for anything less than their next of kin as a president (ironically, they wouldn't even accept a cousin if there is brother is a contender).

My nigga. Finally some much needed real-talk up in the politics section. I'm sick up to here with the drivel being spewed by blatant tribalists.

 

Case in point: The newly annointed Lieutenant-General-Mighty-Warrior-Poet-Defender-of-all-things-Puntish Sakhraan(drunk with qabiil). 2 weeks ago, the stooge wasn't even posting on SOL, let alone the politics section. ICU comes within striking distance of Galkacyo and macalinka hurdatha oo ka kacay. He came down with a bad case of Xamiyatul Jaahiliya and starts waxin poetic all of sudden. Jinniyada Puntland aa hal mar ku soo dhageen. He enrolls in a 'poetry'(lol) crash course and here are his more enlightened pronouncements:

 

1. The ICU(clan courts of the south, in qabil-speak) are terrorists. Every single last one of them no-good rapist killers.

2. Dahir Aweys is a terrorist who's in cahoots with Al-Qadia. Same goes to Sharif Ahmed and the rest of their leadership.

3. The 'clan courts of the south' stink. They don't bathe.(lol ok, he didn't say this but I wouldn't be suprised)

4. Barre Hirale is worshipping(sujood'ing to) Adeer A/Y. Evidence ? Sakhraan provides a pic of Barre sitting down in a chair.

5. Since Barre is sujooding to A/Y, that makes his people 'dhuli'(his words).

6. The clan courts attempted to drug the Glorious Puntish Armies by sending them free shipments of jaat.

 

In any other world/universe, this man would commited to a mental asylum, or at best, sidelined as a buffon. Not here, the true authentic tribalist is a whole 'nother beast. Here he gets props and a promotion from General Duke.

 

By all means, criticise the ICU, it's leadership, and it's policies. But wax cagli gal oo nin wayn ku hadlo ah lasoo shir tag. Step up your game with something better than "Boo! Be scared, be very scared: the Clan Courts are coming". If you have nothing to offer but qabil-talk, no matter how cleverly disguised(General Duke) or elequently expressed(Oodweyne), then please STFU. Please.

[Cumar]

Originally posted by Kashafa:

quote:There are amidst us some people who wouldn't settle for anything less than their next of kin as a president (ironically, they wouldn't even accept a cousin if there is brother is a contender).

My nigga. Finally some much needed real-talk up in the politics section. I'm sick up to here with the drivel being spewed by blatant tribalists.

 

Case in point: The newly annointed Lieutenant-General-Mighty-Warrior-Poet-Defender-of-all-things-Puntish Sakhraan(drunk with qabiil). 2 weeks ago, the stooge wasn't even posting on SOL, let alone the politics section. ICU comes within striking distance of Galkacyo and macalinka hurdatha oo ka kacay. He came down with a bad case of Xamiyatul Jaahiliya and starts waxin poetic all of sudden. Jinniyada Puntland aa hal mar ku soo dhageen.

He enrolls in a 'poetry'(lol) crash course and here are his more enlightened pronouncements:

 

1. The ICU(clan courts of the south, in qabil-speak) are terrorists. Every single last one of them no-good rapist killers.

2. Dahir Aweys is a terrorist who's in cahoots with Al-Qadia. Same goes to Sharif Ahmed and the rest of their leadership.

3. The 'clan courts of the south' stink. They don't bathe.(lol ok, he didn't say this but I wouldn't be suprised)

4. Barre Hirale is worshipping(sujood'ing to) Adeer A/Y. Evidence ? Sakhraan provides a pic of Barre sitting down in a chair.

5. Since Barre is sujooding to A/Y, that makes his people 'dhuli'(his words).

6. The clan courts attempted to drug the Glorious Puntish Armies by sending them free shipments of jaat.

 

In any other world/universe, this man would commited to a mental asylum, or at best, sidelined as a buffon. Not here, the true authentic tribalist is a whole 'nother beast. Here he gets props and a promotion from General Duke.

 

By all means, criticise the ICU, it's leadership, and it's policies. But wax cagli gal oo nin wayn ku hadlo ah lasoo shir tag. Step up your game with something better than "Boo! Be scared, be very scared: the Clan Courts are coming". If you have nothing to offer but qabil-talk, no matter how cleverly disguised(General Duke) or elequently expressed(Oodweyne), then please STFU. Please.

Salamu Calaykum

 

I frankly agree with brother Caaqil and Kashafa. Whilst one can formulate his own opinions of movements, one should at least adhere to the standards of the Islamic conduct in engaging discussions. Some members need to be reminded that ICU council employs many wadaado who are some of the culema of the country and if Allah (ta3ala) has warned his servants from eating the flesh of your brother, what about the heirs of the Prophet. I run a large-sized Islamic Forum and if I encounter such garbage and individuals who are devoid of displaying Islamic etiquette in their posts; I simply ban them and I urge the Somalionline staff to enforce the same rule.

 

Salamu Calaykum

[Gabbal]

Kashafa-

 

The good Sakhar did not deserve that much analysis directed at him sxb. He is a nuisance, but a predictable, almost boorish nuisance. Hence the reason why the forum has yet to notice him even though he has been here longer then I! Ignore him, you would be surprised the number of character he has (and are probably dorment) over the course of these years and all for what he percieves is to the successful benefit of the "clan". Dhinac iskaga riixi; it's what everyone else does.

[NGONGE]

It is often said that Somalia’s main problem is the zealot following of the clans! However, I’m yet to come across a Somali that will confess to that fact. We all seem to be accusing others of having clannish agendas, but, oh, not us. We are whiter than white and straighter than an arrow!

 

There is no problem with supporting one’s own clans. After all, when push comes to shove, they’re the ones that will save your (my) backside. Therefore, I suggest you all stop the nonsense and come out with your support for your people. This attitude of yours is beyond duplicitous and shameful really. Do not be the ones that let their people down. Stand up and be counted.

 

Caaqil argues above that some people are so sick with the clan fever that they will choose their brothers over their cousins! What is wrong with that, I ask! Wouldn’t you TRUST your brother more than your cousin? Wouldn’t you TRUST your cousin more than some stranger? It’s all a matter of TRUST after all. And it would be utterly foolish after sixteen years of mistrust for someone to suddenly turn around and start TRUSTING strangers. With brothers and cousins one at least has some guarantees that they’re not going to double-cross him or betray him, what do the strangers offer? It is natural to fear the UNKOWN and seek friends and relatives to cover your back from any potential danger, should people go against their natural instincts just because it became fashionable to abhor tribes?

 

Still, Caaqil, having seen the way people switch from one side to the other as soon as a new change takes place in Somali politics, wouldn’t you think (at least) that these people are like the drowning man attempting to clutch at any floating straw in order to save himself (instead of assuming that they all have some evil intentions)? After all, everyone looks for what’s best and safer for them. In the case of Somalis, and from long experience, it’s one’s immediate clan that is best and safest. It stands to reason then that most people will align themselves with their clan’s policies and plans.

 

On a side note, and I’ve said this several times already, this business of accusing others of ‘opposing Islam’ is an extremely obtuse and dictatorial way of winning the argument. If you support the Courts come out and SELL them to the readers. Don’t sell Islam, for everyone here (one assumes) is Muslim. Sell the Courts’ version of Islam. Bring people to your side with good words, pointing out the good deeds and winning their TRUST. To always start threads in this aggressive style and argue the Courts’ case with all this tough talk and bravado only increases people’s worries and makes them stick closer to their clans.

 

Now, let us get to the Freedom of Speech issue and talk to the brother that ‘runs a large Islamic forum’! The difference between YOUR forum and this one is in the topics you both decided to deal with. This one is an open forum that deals with all manner of discussions. In this particular section, we talk about politics. The fact that the Courts are now part of Somali politics make them open to criticism and analysis. Sadly, the nature of Somali politics with it’s emphasis on hearsay and rumours means that, sometimes, some people will be accused of things they have not done or committed (being culama or not does not matter - the saying was about eating the flesh of your brother, not just your caalim). It’s either that or we don’t discuss politics at all! And that, as I’m sure you realise, is almost impossible. What you need to encourage (instead of making vague statements) is the verifications of any news before it gets posted on sites. When I say encourage I speak about other Nomads and not those that run the site.

 

At any rate, to discuss all manners of political ideas no matter how ugly, abhorrent or wrong they are is a sign of a healthy forum and FAIR discussion. It’s why you and I come here and don’t go to other sites. If there are ideas, positions and claims that you don’t agree with, the chance is there for you to tackle them and express (what you believe to be) the correct position to have. To silence opposing voices only encourages duplicity and dishonesty.

 

Ps

 

A final point on General Duke’s cleverly disguised positions and Oodeweyne’s eloquently expressed prejudices! One truthfully wishes that everyone in this forum would follow the footsteps of these two gentlemen. This is a discussion forum after all and WORDS are all that matters. Use them correctly and eloquently and people will clearly understand what positions you hold, use them in a lazy and shabby way and you’ll only come across as a total simpleton! In addition, you can only fully refute, tackle and challenge someone’s arguments when you really understand what is it they’re talking about and what opinions they’re bringing forward. I’d wager that not one single person on this site (other than those with comprehension problems) does not understand these two gentlemen’s positions. At times, I even find myself (reluctantly) agreeing with them. That’s the power of rhetoric and words for you!

[Thankful]

The clan courts did a lot for Xamar, but other regions in Somalia addressed the violence along time ago, but what they did is still impressive. Getting rid of khat was amazing to; of course it is not fair for people that depended on it to feed their family. When I was Somalia the majority were women selling it on the street, who I’m sure used the money from it to feed their families. They must give them an alternative before they banned it.

The clan courts are exactly that, a Clan! Which happens to be their biggest weakness. Their leadership and decision-makers are one single TRIBE. I see absolutely no diversity from other region in Somalia. The day they start including all Somalis, they will gain everyone's support. They've had enough time to start, but haven't. Of course they have supports all over Somalia, but even they are hesitant to really act because of the shady actions of the courts concerning diversity. If they were true wadaads they would not care about tribes, and you would see all Somalis included in their decision making process. See the TFG at least has people from all over. Regardless of what you might think of these people they are still key players in those areas. The clan courts have not and I truly doubt ever will allow other people from different regions leading them. Somalis need a leadership that is diverse and who are willing to put the past behind them. I do believe this can only be accomplished through Islam, but not the way these guys in Xamar are doing it.

[NASSIR]

SOL is a forum that is open for everyone who is entitled to his opinion. The opener of this thread is implying that discussants blaspheme our beuatiful religion since Islam is a religion, so using its generic name to accuse the forum as opposed to the participants who are criticial of the courts' activities is very fanatic campaign and politically illusive gesture to smother the expression of others in the service of the moderators.

 

In no way have we advocated for trashing our religion. That sums up a blasphemic language and hence intolerable to the etiquates of our debate. It even violates the golden rules of Somaliaonline. And I therefore ask Somaliaonline to delete this thread and warn members of their fanatic actions until they are brushed up with the tools and techniques of debate based on our constructive criticisms and goodwill--the appropriate use of language to address your oponents.

[Coloow]

Ngonge,

 

1) I think those of us who feel that the "clan" is a disease should also be respected. My friend, there are thousands of us who have abandoned the clan as a unit of discussion. I for one don't believe in it. I wouldn't choose my brother over my cousin (or anyone else for that matter). My clan could go to hell. I am nót buying that argument. It is in my eyes a primitive thing ( and I am not a fool- or am I?)

 

2) I am not against someone voicing their opinion- but what we see on SOL is not voicing opinion . It is expressing the opinion of others without consideration. Paste and copy of weak news reporting.

3) Healthy ideas? what is so heakthy about tribalism or copying and pasting?

 

4)"open forum"- what is that suppose to mean? There arelimits on what one could write on open forum or is it a highway of hate?

 

see you next weekend.

[Captain Xalane]

Originally posted by Caaqil:

Ngonge,

 

1) I think those of us who feel that the "clan" is a disease should also be respected. My friend, there are thousands of us who have abandoned the clan as a unit of discussion. I for one don't believe in it. I wouldn't choose my brother over my cousin (or anyone else for that matter). My clan could go to hell. I am nót buying that argument. It is in my eyes a primitive thing ( and I am not a fool- or am I?)

 

2) I am not against someone voicing their opinion- but what we see on SOL is not voicing opinion . It is expressing the opinion of others without consideration. Paste and copy of weak news reporting.

3) Healthy ideas? what is so heakthy about tribalism or copying and pasting?

 

4)"open forum"- what is that suppose to mean? There arelimits on what one could write on open forum or is it a highway of hate?

 

see you next weekend.

U raise invalid questions,i read Ngonge's post too,there is nothing in it to misunderstand,it was a well thought post.U are trying to raise an arguement that doesn't exist,in otherwords,u are reviving a fire that is being distinguished.

[Socod_badne]

^Action speak louder than words. Rather than tells he's raising spurious questions, why don't you show us. Or do you want us to take you at your word alone?

[Captain Xalane]

Originally posted by Socod_badne:

^Action speak louder than words. Rather than tells he's raising spurious questions, why don't you show us. Or do you want us to take you at your word alone?

Read the post in question and u will find ur answer in it.

[Socod_badne]

I did and you still have to show, not just say, he's raising bogus questions.

[LayZie G.]

War ninkii lahaa SOL ma wuusan ka baqeynin in ilaahey maalinta qiyaame weydiiyo meeshaan uu furay sida diinta loogu xumeeynaayo, mise waxaa sharaf la mooday in qofka uu sida gaalada camal u hadlo oo hadana la yiraahdo waa 'freedom of speech spirit?'

OMG, hypocrite # uno is talking..

 

 

Why is it admin is always the one who ends up being trashed when the likes of this poster want iney daacsadaan? Better yet, why aren't you all doing something about??

 

Listen, you son of a Musharif, if you feel that Islam is being attacked, why do you keep coming back time in and time out reading the so called "Islam bashing"? No, don't bother with an answer, as you have nothing to say that could possibly defend your previous statement.