Women of Jannah

[Haneefah]

Subhanallah!!!

 

Originally posted by Johnny B:

Bro Abrar, you´re deliberately making merry in your OWN coarseness.

Firstly, I am a sister. Secondly, thank you for the comment!

 

You´r beeing told that the Quran doesn´t mention a male 'hur al ain' and you keep asking ME to answer how do i know that?

Here's the deal, when you decide to sincerely seek knowledge about Islam and you eliminate the pre-conceived notions that you seem to be harboring (which obviously bias your observations and hinder your comprehension abilities), then and only then shall I engage in a meaningful dialogue with you. Till then, you take care!

 

May Allah (swt) guide us all to the straight path and forgive us for our shortcomings.

[Johnny B]

Originally posted by *Proud_Muslimah*:

[QB] Peace JB,

 

In order to get a clear understanding for the reason behind this...you need to study the rights a husband and a wife have over eachother![/QB

Proud one !

I really like your style , full engagement with all due respect , civility and atriculateness is in order.

 

But your presentation of what was supposed to be a vivid account of

the reason of the reason of why more women have to burn in Hell-fire, by the will of a compassionate and just God turned out to be too frail to stand the test.

 

• In islam no diffrence between the genders ,therefore women should be 'grateful to men? [check]
• In islam equal obligations towards each other,therefore women should be 'grateful to men? [check]
• in Islam God adresses both genders to promote equality,therefore women should be 'grateful to men? [check]
• In Islam both men and women are forbidden to abuse each other,therefore women should be 'grateful to men? [check]
• women got better rights compared to the old arab culture,therefore women should be 'grateful to men? [check]
• in Islam men are a degree above women,therefore women should be 'grateful to men? [check]

in short, CHECK to everything you said.

Proud one, my delima is ..

where is the reason of the reason that says Women must be grateful to men ?

 

due to the absence of the reason of the reason,i´m tempted to dare you try and see if you have better chance passing Dante´s Inferno test than beeing 'grateful' to men to end in a compassionate and just God´s Jannah.

 

Since , you concluded asking the same question as Abrar, i feel the necessity to explain myself more and even state the obvious before you guys start beleiving that i´m of the idea that Paradise is a place of sexual romp .

 

1: Islam is solely based on what is in the Quran and the prophets Hadiths, right? wrong!!

2: there are no male 'hur al ain' for the god fearing sisters becouse neither the Quran nor a hadith mention it, simple huh?!

3: when you say :

So what if it's not mentioned in the Qur'an?

I don´t agree with you ,( it may even put you on a collision course with the wadads)

4: but when you say :

a woman CAN choose to have a hurul'ain if she desires

i DO agree with you.

still contradictory? rethink , n lemme witness a mirth.

 

with that i hope i´ll skip another "HOW DO YOU KNOW" question again.

 

 

Does anyody understand Brother Kheyr? cause i don´t.

 

Abrar sis , accept my appology for mistakenly addressing you as a brother and for my inane commemnt, ,It´s so tempting though, to ask which of them stung?.

 

Sister Abrar,My problem is the arabic touch in the names,I can´t gender filter the non "usual", typical somali names.

Now before you throw that raw deal in my face ,can i protest wildly and argue,

To dictate such a deal, i´ve to have insulted your intelligence to the extent that every post of mine has triggered a sigh .

not becouse,there is no verse or hadith that says there are no male hur al ain in Jannah or there are a male hur al ain in Jannah.

And i don´t have to worry much about your sixth sense.

[Mutakalim]

If only he said, O God, loose a knot from my tongue, dadku waa fahmi lahaayeene...Carab weyniyo caqiido khalafsan yuu la yimide

[Proud_Muslimah2]

Originally posted by Callypso:

 

“The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) went out to the Musalla on the day of Eid al-Adha or Eid al-Fitr. He passed by the women and said, ‘O women! Give charity, for I have seen that you form the majority of the people of Hell.’ They asked, ‘Why is that, O Messenger of Allaah?’ He replied, ‘You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religious commitment than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you.’ The women asked, ‘O Messenger of Allaah, what is deficient in our intelligence and religious commitment?’ He said, ‘Is not the testimony of two women equal to the testimony of one man?’ They said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Is it not true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is the deficiency in her religious commitment.’â€

 

Variations on this hadith exist (another one actually lists three "deficiencies", while yet another merely states that women are ungrateful to their husbands) but it's in Sahih al-Bukhari so it's authentic.

 

Why would I believe that a just and compassionate god would be more likely to throw me in hell just because I was born a woman rather than a man?

Peace Callypso,

 

I did some research on the hadith you have provided above.

 

I have come across many Ahadith which have been translated in English and have naturally lost its true context. If I am given narrations on the hadith's exact volume, narrator etc maybe I can look into it for you and then give you a more honourable answer Insh'Allah (God Willing). But with my knowledge on Hadith there are many narrations in which the prophet has informed us of the main occupants of Jahanaam who were described as predominantly being females and one of the many reasons for them abiding in Jahanaam is the fact that they were ungreatful to their husbands. But that has nothing to do with the gender of the person rather the actions (as mentioned in my earlier post!). Logically speaking it is like me saying more men die of heart disease than women, or majority of the troops occupying Iraq are Male Soldiers and not female. To an ordinary sane person this is not discriminative to either gender’s rather it is me giving you the facts. In the same way the prophet being the best of mankind gave us the facts, warned us of what is to come and how one can avoid the blazing fire of Jahanaam (Hell-fire). And I challenge anybody to prove to me women had rights in the west at the time of the prophet Muhammad(pbuh), Islam gave women rights almost 1500 years before the West. At a time when in the Arab lands female infants were burried and in the west women were slaves of sexual pleasure to the men and presently still are (Nauzhubillah) Today many women, Muslim and Non-Muslim, have become slaves to the Dajjalic system in which they think they have freedom but in fact they are far from it.

 

My initial impression is that the Hadith is either a fabrication or it has been taken out of context. The way the hadith has been put is as though the prophet spoke of women in an ill and derogatory manner (Staughfirullah) If this was the case then indeed the women he actually spoke to (in this hadith), would have understandably left Islam as there is little chance of them entering Jannah (Paradise). But from the birth of Islam to present times the largest group accepting Islam are ofcourse women. Unfortunately there is very little I can say on this hadith as I have not come across this particular one before. If you do need me to further reiterate I will look into it if you can provide me with further information on the Hadith i.e which volume/number, narration etc

 

JB, will reply to your post sometime tomorrow Insh'Allah (God Willing) as it's my bed-time and I'm kinda tired

 

Peace

[Socod_badne]

So according to this hadith my mom, sisters and female relatives are more likely to end up in Hell then Saddam 'the butcher' Hussien? Unbelievable!!!

[Khayr]

Originally posted by Socod_badne:

So according to this hadith my mom, sisters and female relatives are likely to end up in Hell then Saddam 'the butcher' Hussien? Unbelievable!!!

This is a twisted and self serving, islam bashing rationalizing.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Khayr:

quote:Originally posted by Socod_badne:

So according to this hadith my mom, sisters and female relatives are likely to end up in Hell then Saddam 'the butcher' Hussien? Unbelievable!!!

This is a twisted and self serving, islam bashing rationalizing.

What is the answer to my question?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[Abdulladiif Al-Fiqih]

Kheyr bro, this is what Allah, Ar-Raqib said about Islam and Muslims Bashers!!

 

9:64] The hypocrites worry that a sura may be revealed exposing what is inside their hearts. Say, "Go ahead and mock. GOD will expose exactly what you are afraid of."

 

[9:65] If you ask them, they would say, "We were only mocking and kidding." Say, "Do you realize that you are mocking GOD, and His revelations, and His messenger?"

 

[9:66] Do not apologize. You have disbelieved after having believed. If we pardon some of you, we will punish others among you, as a consequence of their wickedness.

 

[9:67] The hypocrite men and the hypocrite women belong with each other - they advocate evil and prohibit righteousness, and they are stingy. They forgot GOD, so He forgot them. The hypocrites are truly wicked.

 

[9:68] GOD promises the hypocrite men and the hypocrite women, as well as the disbelievers, the fire of Hell, wherein they abide forever. It suffices them. GOD has condemned them; they have incurred an everlasting retribution

[Johnny B]

Originally posted by Socod_badne:

What is the answer to my question?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

SB, don´t bother !

[Proud_Muslimah2]

Peace JB,

 

You wrote --> "Proud one, my delima is ..

where is the reason of the reason that says Women must be grateful to men ?"

 

Did you read my post..? because the answer is within that post! Infact, all these questions you are asking are answered in that post! You either did not READ it or you have trouble understanding english! Let me know if you need any help in comprehending

 

What I find really odd JB is that you expect people to answer your questions but you don't bother yourself in asnwering other's questions!

 

The Prophet (saw), told us that within Paradise are things that no eyes have ever seen, nor ears have ever heard, and that things in it are beyond our imagination and comprehension. So for you (or anyone else for that matter) to say what a believer CAN and CAN NOT have is just WRONG!

 

Allah (SWT) says, ""Verily, the dwellers of Paradise that Day, will be busy in joyful things.

They and their wives will be in pleasant shade, reclining on thrones. They will have therein fruits (of all kinds) AND ALL THAT THEY WILL ASK FOR! , (It will be said to them): "Salamun" (Peace be on you), a Word from the Lord, Most Merciful." [36:55-58]}

 

So my question (which you did not answer) was, since Allah (SWT) tells us a person who enters Jannah WILL get ANYTHING they desire (as can be seen in the above Qur'anic verse) how on earth do you know a woman CAN NOT have a male Hurul'ain? Or do you need me to give you the meaning of the word "ANYTHING" ?

 

Allah (SWT)say, "So no soul knows the delights of the eyes which is hidden for them; a reward for what they did." [32:17]

[Johnny B]

Originally posted by *Proud_Muslimah*:

 

My initial impression is that the Hadith is either a fabrication or it has been taken out of context. The way the hadith has been put is as though the prophet spoke of women in an ill and derogatory manner

that deserves a standing ovation !!

Proud one ,Though i caught the scent of submission in your post, i´ll go ahead and collide with myself ( as we say it here ).

 

Yes, I´ve read your post, and yes,i´ve trouble understanding English,

but asking me "how do i know that there are no male 'hur al ain' " again is like asking me what the Quran says about eunuchs?.

 

And if the answer to the question

why more women than men have to burn in the Hell-fire, by the will of a compassionate and just God is becouse they´re ungrateful to their husbands, then

Your comprehension of the ethical, logical, rational, and sensual fallibility of your source is beyond your initial impression , it comsumes more brain cells and a cincere willigness to accept and live by the truth.

 

I´ve enjoyed it, n am almost sure it was mutual

[Cara.]

Hello Proud_Muslimah,

 

Thank you for your civil and thoughful response. I'll try to answer in like manner, and hope everyone else realises that the other way of debating is not very productive.

 

I have come across many Ahadith which have been translated in English and have naturally lost its true context.

Of course, and that's inevitable. Personally, I don't think this particular Hadith is mistranslated, or that there could be a context in which it would not be unfair to women, but I suppose it's not impossible. Once I remember reading a Hadith in which Abu Huraira reported that the Prophet said that, "horses, houses and women are unlucky". But then another hadith from Aisha reported that the prophet was actually saying "Jews believe that horses, houses, and women are unlucky." Apparently Abu Huraira only heard the last part. So if the companions of the Prophet could take Hadith out of context, we certainly are not going to be immune.

 

If I am given narrations on the hadith's exact volume, narrator etc maybe I can look into it for you and then give you a more honourable answer Insh'Allah (God Willing).

Sure. There are several versions of this hadith. Al-Bukhari has one narrated by Imran bin Husain in Volume 4, Book 54, Number 464:

 

The Prophet said, "I looked at Paradise and found poor people forming the majority of its inhabitants; and I looked at Hell and saw that the majority of its inhabitants were women."

 

There's a longer one in Al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 125, narrated by 'Abdullah bin Abbas.

 

A similar version is in Volume 1, Book 2, Number 28.

 

The version I quoted earlier is in Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301.

 

Isn't the internet grand?

 

Logically speaking it is like me saying more men die of heart disease than women, or majority of the troops occupying Iraq are Male Soldiers and not female. To an ordinary sane person this is not discriminative to either gender’s rather it is me giving you the facts.

Proud_Muslimah, this is the only part of your post that I was truly disappointed in. Are you really telling me that going to Hell is not about being evil, but rather a meaningless fact with no value attached? Bad people go to Hell. If the majority of people going to Hell are women, then women are bad, compared to men. In contrast, saying that men have heart attacks more than women is not a value-ladden statement. People who have heart attacks are not evil compared to those who don't. People who go to hell are evil compared to those who don't.

 

Let me put it this way: Imagine you have 20 infants in front of you, 10 are boys and 10 are girls. The Hadith in question will predict that, when they get older, more of the girls will go to hell. It's that simple. From birth, a girl is more likely to go to hell than her brother. Whether this is because she's going to be ungrateful to her husband, or because she's defective religiously and intellectually, depends on which Hadith you believe.

 

And I challenge anybody to prove to me women had rights in the west at the time of the prophet Muhammad(pbuh), Islam gave women rights almost 1500 years before the West.

I agree. In his time, the Prophet was truly revolutionary when it came to women's rights--in his time. Compared to the West in the 6th century, or even the 19th, Islam gives more rights to women. But why are we comparing in such an anachronistic fashion? That's like boasting that I am stronger than you were as a child. Islam today does NOT give women more rights than living under secular Western laws today. But this isn't about rights, because rights can be superseded by eternal rewards, obviously. Women can sacrifice some rights in this world if they have an edge in the next, so to speak. But the Hadith under question also implies that women have it worse in the hereafter too!

 

Today many women, Muslim and Non-Muslim, have become slaves to the Dajjalic system in which they think they have freedom but in fact they are far from it.

An example in which Islam gives "real" freedom whereas women in the West have "Dajjalic" freedom, please?

 

My initial impression is that the Hadith is either a fabrication or it has been taken out of context.

I thought your initial impression was that the Hadith was just stating a neutral fact?

 

The way the hadith has been put is as though the prophet spoke of women in an ill and derogatory manner (Staughfirullah) If this was the case then indeed the women he actually spoke to (in this hadith), would have understandably left Islam as there is little chance of them entering Jannah (Paradise).

What is the penalty for leaving Islam?

 

But from the birth of Islam to present times the largest group accepting Islam are ofcourse women.

Really? I wasn't aware of that. Could I be flippant and point out that since women are apparently deficient in intelligence it might not be a good idea to follow their example?

[Proud_Muslimah2]

Peace JB,

 

"that deserves a standing ovation !!

Proud one ,Though i caught the scent of submission in your post, i´ll go ahead and collide with myself ( as we say it here)"

 

I'm lost...which post (if you don't mind me asking) did I submit? The post where you got the quote from is reply to the hadith Callypso posted which I promised I will do a research on!

 

"Yes, I´ve read your post"

 

Then why is it that you have not spotted the answer to your questions that is within my post?

 

I wrote:

 

"A husband works hard to make money in order to support both the wife and his kids, hence this being the reason to why women are asked to be

obedient to their husbands! And since women do the housework, look after the husband's kids...etc...etc, the husband is asked to treat his wife respectfully!

 

Allah (SWT) says, " ... the wife's rights (with regard to their husbands) are equal to the (husband's) rights with regard to them, although men are a degree above them; and Allah is Almighty, Wise.

 

Qur'an [2 : 228]"

 

It's not ONLY this little paragraph that answers your questions but rather my WHOLE post!

 

"why more women than men have to burn in the Hell-fire, by the will of a compassionate and just God is becouse they´re ungrateful to their husbands, then Your comprehension of the ethical, logical, rational, and sensual fallibility of your source is beyond your initial impression , it comsumes more brain cells and a cincere willigness to accept and live by the truth"

 

:confused:

[Proud_Muslimah2]

Peace Callypso,

 

Thanks, I will do my research and reply to your post as soon as I'm done Insh'Allah (God Willing)

 

Peace

[Cara.]

Hello Khayr,

 

Callypso,

 

GOD is not SENTIMENTAL contrary to what most people today would like GOD to be...a PERSONAL, SENTIMENTALIZED GOD.

I think that is exactly the future of God.

 

GOD's Rahhmaaa (COMPASSION) does not need the APPROVAL of you and I, to condsir it RAHHMAAA(COMPASSION).

Khayr, you are wrong there. Open the Qur'an to any random page and you will find God demonstrating his RAHMA and seeking our gratitude AS A CONSEQUENCE. When Allah says, "Which of my favors will you deny?" the underlying subtext is that, presented with RAHMA from Allah, we have a moral obligation to worship Allah and feel gratitude towards him. This implies that God is referencing a higher standard of good than even himself. Or maybe he is lowering himself to our moral level, which he has created in us. In either case, Allah himself has invited us to judge him by his actions and inactions, and that's what we must do. Any alternative is unthinkable.

 

For if the was the case, then there would be no EVIL and ALL GOOD...then we would never really be able to define WHAT IS GOOD then because some of that GOOD would be negated into (GOOD, GOODER,ABSOLUTE GOOD etc.)

I have no idea what that means.

 

GOD'S JUSITCE, ADL, is not limited in the same way. GOD's WILL is always GREATER and you and I can not fathom it. For GOD, to be GOD, HE has to exercise his ATTRIBUTES which are INFINITE and that is not subject to the approval of his 'CREATION'...i.e. OK, GOD, you can do that (IS NOT WHAT ISLAM TEACHES)

Once again, your own faith suggests otherwise. When God says he is JUST, and demands our worship thereby, he does invite us to judge him by a standard independent of him. If I say to you "I am kind to you so you should say thank you", the subtext is that a moral law exists which you ought to obey. I can't then turn around and say that my kindness is for me to define, and that it was kind of me to kill your offspring, for example.

 

But wait, this is an explanation for people who believe in a RELIGION, what if you are an AGNOSTIC or an ATHIEST...

 

then ask yourself this

 

DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH AUTHORITY?

 

LIMITS BEING SET ON YOUR PERSONAL LIFE?

 

Fi Amanillah

I have no problems with legitimate authority, or rational limits. No doubt my definition of legitimate authority differs markedly from yours though.