Somalia down the drain........if not stopped and intervened to prevent it............

[Fiqikhayre]

Somalia a barren and 'naked' land. What a farce our country has become. For me this is absolute craziness, a government that brags about their so-called achievements in the last three month by its moron Prime minister!

 

The achievement is 'summarised' into one foiling of a suicide attack in Baidoa and the arrest of suspects on another suicide boming! What the monkeys? Did I heard the moron rightly or what? Ignorant donkey!

 

This government is moving to slow for my likeing, they're well off the pace, that I would them atleast expect them now to catch up with events inside Somalia.

 

Ofcourse the biggest joke and farce is the declared jihaad on Ethiopia, that has been put off supposedly because the bloody yemenis are going to bring the Ethios and the desperados to put their differences on a side whilst avoiding war at the same time somewhere in a room maybe in Cadan or Sanca, I don't know where but I couldn't care less!

 

These donkey morons know aswell as anyone, that they will not reach any deal or agreement with Ethiopia, so why the lies and waste?

 

Both the union of desperados and Ethiopia are wasting their times, it's getting frustrated, would someone please have the courage and sort the whole thing out for once and all! Why is the Somali nation left in limbo each and every time by the International community.

 

This old man is just too bloody cautious in his dealings nowdays and I don't know why. He tries to avoid any conflict at all cost and still believes he can go all the way to Mog without the firing of one shot! I see danger for him as he's clearly playing with fire.

 

The union of Il-Desperados are not invisible in miliatary terms and they can be defeated but at what cost? These morons are preparing for a future guerilla war, so be it. What is the old man afraid off. People blowing themselves up exists now everywhere in the world! This shows desperados don't have any faith in defeating the TFG otherwise they wouldn't prepare themselves 'for war after war', when the chief in commander of the armed forces is hailed and he utters the words 'Mission accomplished'.

 

Get off your bloody cautious mentality and enter the real world dear old man, otherwise we only going in circles again! Now or later it will come to a confrontation, so be it now rather later because we already lost sixteen years in which we could advance our country politically, socially and economally but it wasn't obviously on the plan no regrets there but 'we should not delay what we can do today for tommorrow is my end qoute'!

[xiinfaniin]

^^Have I not told you that you would be disappointed if you thought Somalia’s problems lie in a military solution? They are political in nature! Hence the sooner the old man understands that the better the chance is for him and his government to at least try to tackle it. Running to Melez’s Ethiopia wont do the trick. Rearming defeated warlords and giving logistical support wont help either. Sticking to the notion of bringing foreign troops is also missing the point and ignoring the reality on the ground.

 

The solution: talk and compromise. That’s the art of politics adeer. To whom you might ask. The answer is off course obvious, to the ICU. Reason with them and ask them a favor to allow you to finish your term. Ask them to give you what you and the old man refused to give to the Carta government: legitimacy to govern.

 

I don’t think you have both the political framework and military means to crush your opponents hence your frothing is quit fatuous, don’t you agree yaa Aw Yusuf?

[ElPunto]

^^Correct Xiin - but it takes two to tango.

 

As to not having the military means? I don't know. If I were a betting man - I would not so readily that bet - particularly if the Ethiopian element is as considerable as claimed

[xiinfaniin]

^^In my uncle's authentic Somali, it's called bar-barrooti. Compromise. Calls English.

In my believe the Cours have compromised on one fundamental thing: the legitimacy of TFG. They recongnised it.

 

Now tell me yaa ThePoint, if you are from a noble blood, one thing TFG compromised on! And lest you are mistaken accepting to negotiate does not constitute for compromise. It's just a measn to get there!

[General Duke]

The point, the millitary means is not out of question. Its the only legitimacy of the Clan Courts, that they defeated the warlords and captured many towns in the south and center.

 

In the political and diplomatic arena they have been a horrible failure. Their recognition of the TFG, makes little sense, since they want to fight the very entity they recognise.

 

Their latest gaff, the seven day ultimatum and then the u-turn, further highlights the weakness of this organisation. Other than the muscle of IndaCade's clan and funds of Abukar Cadaan they have very little to show. Thus IndCade will be out muscled soon.

 

Then there will be peace, within the TFG frameowrk.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Oh Generale dont you outgrow of your King Canute like wishes!

[ElPunto]

Shame on you adeer - there is no nobility in Islam apart from what God bestows on his servant.

 

Correct me IF I am wrong adeer but didn't TFG agree to meeting in Khartoum and it was ICU folks who pulled out. Additionally, as the recognized government of Somalia through a multi-year process - you can understand why TFG would suddenly not want to embrace a group that might challenge its legitimacy, however small it may be. But at present - I think they recognize reality and are willing to talk.

 

The ICU has been calling for jihad against Ethiopia and TFG although somewhat tempered lately. Additionally, there have been 2 suicide attacks against TFG. Moreover, the ICU has been stating that until Ethiopia gets out - no talks. Not the best stance if you are genuinely interested in reaching a solution to the impasse that is Somalia. After all, the TFG could make similar remarks about 'al-Qaeda' out before talks. And I would characterize that as similarly unhelpful as the ICU position.

[General Duke]

^^^Great points indeed.The supporters of the Clan Courts, ignore many issues, though they will recognise the truth sooner rather than later.

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by General Duke:

The point, the millitary means is not out of question. Its the only legitimacy of the Clan Courts, that they defeated the warlords and captured many towns in the south and center.

GD - that is certainly not inconsequential. I think you downplay that too much. I think another aspect of their legitimacy is due to Islamic component, however 'convenient' it may be at times.

 

 

In the political and diplomatic arena they have been a horrible failure. Their recognition of the TFG, makes little sense, since they want to fight the very entity they recognise.

I think you've got a point there - but I think it may be that they don't want to be seen as completely intransigient. And it may reflect a genuine willingness to play their role in a future government, though I'm sure the size of their role will harldy be what the TFG envisions.

 

Their latest gaff, the seven day ultimatum and then the u-turn, further highlights the weakness of this organisation. Other than the muscle of IndaCade's clan and funds of Abukar Cadaan they have very little to show. Thus IndCade will be out muscled soon.

 

Then there will be peace, within the TFG frameowrk. [/QB]

Certainly - it is somewhat of a u-turn but I'm glad of it. No more conflict is needed. As to the rest - yo no se.

[Thierry.]

Its all about give and take the ICU recognised legality of the TFG hence want power sharing in order to represent the south.

 

On one condition and I do not know how many times it has to be said. Get the neighbours out and we will talk brother to brother, hopefully settle our differences. If not you know where the ICU stands Geedi and Yusuf will not see Xamar cadey any time soon.

 

Get the Ethios out and we will all be on your boat

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by Thierry.:

Its all about give and take the ICU recognised legality of the TFG hence want power sharing in order to represent the south.

 

On one condition and I do not know how many times it has to be said. Get the neighbours out and we will talk brother to brother, hopefully settle our differences. If not you know where the ICU stands Geedi and Yusuf will not see Xamar cadey any time soon.

 

Get the Ethios out and we will all be on your boat

But why does that matter if talking and comprise is the pressing need - why do you think it is helpful to have preconditions?

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by ThePoint:

Shame on you adeer - there is no nobility in Islam apart from what God bestows on his servant.

 

Correct me IF I am wrong adeer but didn't TFG agree to meeting in Khartoum and it was ICU folks who pulled out. Additionally, as the recognized government of Somalia through a multi-year process - you can understand why TFG would suddenly not want to embrace a group that might challenge its legitimacy, however small it may be. But at present - I think they recognize reality and are willing to talk.

 

The ICU has been calling for jihad against Ethiopia and TFG although somewhat tempered lately. Additionally, there have been 2 suicide attacks against TFG. Moreover, the ICU has been stating that until Ethiopia gets out - no talks. Not the best stance if you are genuinely interested in reaching a solution to the impasse that is Somalia. After all, the TFG could make similar remarks about 'al-Qaeda' out before talks. And I would characterize that as similarly unhelpful as the ICU position.

There is no shame in that adeer---nobility exists . Annaasu maacidinun, you know! But that’s beside the point.

 

Moving on…

 

So all you could come up with as a compromise is accepting to negotiate. Well, that’s not a compromise adeer. As for the Courts insistence on Ethiopia’s departure, which I don’t agree with it as a prerequisite for the talks, still it should be a significant item at the negotiation table. For with Ethiopia in Baydhabo and Galkacyo peace remains afar.

 

We’ve been there before but when all said and done TFG’s position is untenable, politically and militarily. You can’t have Geedi, for instance, as a PM and wish he could genuinely negotiate with his potential replacement. You can’t rely on Somalia’s historical foe and present it as a savior whose actions are Samaritan of sort!

[Thierry.]

It is to avoid any outside influence especially that of a neighbour who has a lot of stake in the outcome of an agreement. I do no need to spell it out to you, the TFG should be independent from all influence it is the only way sincere dialogue can take place.

 

It is very simple steps to avoid all this chaos.

Step 1 ICU recognises the TFG

Step 2 TFG tells Ethiopians to get out

Step 3 Both parties come to negotiation table in Yemen or Khartoum

Step 4 The ICU joins the TFG and represents the southern parts of the country

Step 5 Shariah law is implemented

Step 6 The issue of Federalism and centralism is discussed and its pros and cons are weighed.

And so and so forth

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

There is no shame in that adeer---nobility exists

.

Annaasu maacidinun

, you know! But that’s beside the point.

Adeer - you're talking to someone who has never seen Somalia - so you must explain some of ur oblique references or else dumb it down.

 

 

So all you could come up with as a compromise is accepting to negotiate. Well, that’s not a compromise adeer. As for the Courts insistence on Ethiopia’s departure, which I don’t agree with it as a prerequisite for the talks, still it should be a significant item at the negotiation table. For with Ethiopia in Baydhabo and Galkacyo peace remains afar.

Adeer, please. There is nothing that the TFG can offer the ICU apart from what it has already given to it ante negotiations. A legitimacy that comes from the TFG's recongition of ICU as a possible partner and the offer to sit down and hash out the details. Can u imagine Siyad sitting down with the SNM or SSDF back when?World recognition and legitimacy was given solely to Barre's government and those 2 organizations were called 'rebel' groups? It is much the same here - although the TFG's hand was forced because of the ICU's successes. Still they could've chosen to ignore ICU and label them an illegitimate 'rebel group'.

 

I don't see Ethiopian troops causing war in B or G. Those who want to attack them are. I want them out and that should be part of the discussions if they happen. But this rabid obsession with Ethiopian presence is tired. At the end of the day 99% of Somalia's problems are the result of Somalis. And at this point - the solution is political not military.

 

We’ve been there before but when all said and done TFG’s position is untenable, politically and militarily. You can’t have Geedi, for instance, as a PM and wish he could genuinely negotiate with his potential replacement. You can’t rely on Somalia’s historical foe and present it as a savior whose actions are Samaritan of sort!

Politically, yes. Militarily, I don't know. And I don't want to find out frankly. Why can't Geedi negotiate? - after all he is part of the chosen government of Somalia - a multi-year process that included many participants. If the ICU want to replace him - they should partake in a process and receive the support of others to take that role.

 

I think all involved understand Ethiopia has interests and it will pursue those relentlessly. But the drumbeat re Ethiopia is a aide show. It is akin to the constant drumbeat of 'terrorists' and 'al-Qaeda' vis-a-vis ICU. It is inaccurate and unhelpful. What is helpful is a negotiated comprise with no pre-conditions. And an absolute committment to ending any renewed bloodshed in southern Somalia.

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by Thierry.:

It is to avoid any outside influence especially that of a neighbour who has a lot of stake in the outcome of an agreement. I do no need to spell it out to you, the TFG should be independent from all influence it is the only way sincere dialogue can take place.

 

It is very simple steps to avoid all this chaos.

Step 1 ICU recognises the TFG

Step 2 TFG tells Ethiopians to get out

Step 3 Both parties come to negotiation table in Yemen or Khartoum

Step 4 The ICU joins the TFG and represents the southern parts of the country

Step 5 Shariah law is implemented

Step 6 The issue of Federalism and centralism is discussed and its pros and cons are weighed.

And so and so forth

Why should the presence of influence impede sincere dialogue? Why should there be no influence in the TFG? Can anyone be completely influence-free - it is akin to claiming I have no biases. Should the same standard be applied to ICU - as per the gossip of rampant Al-Qaeda/Arab/Iran/Hizbollah/Syria/Eritrean influence?

 

It seems to me - a peaceful man will accomodate the maximalist demands to achieve peace while one who is not peaceful will erect as many obstacles as possible.

 

PEACE FOR SOMALIA