Eritrea's involved?

[Rahima]

Wind,

 

I was just being specific in retrospect to the brothers I was addressing; it goes without say that it should be applied across the board.

 

As for my passion, let's just say i have seen first hand the impacts of s-t-u-p-i-d tribalism (you'd think the mainstream form was disgusting enough). Too many horrors have my eyes seen and ears heard.

 

OLOL,

 

First, I am not cheerleading for any warlord

Yes you are , or is Adeer Qanyare not a warlord?

 

You are only one-eighth Somali and don’t belong to any tribe (so basically Soomaali ma tihid-and I don’t mean this as an offense), yet you speak of war in Somalia so freely :confused: ? I’m sure it is not only me who sees something wrong with this. Do you know what warfare causes? The consequences? You are Muslim right? Do you know what Islam says about such matters?

 

You my brother are sitting back in your plush home in the good-old US of A filling your gut to the brim with all the delicacies available and then have the audacity to claim to be ready for war. Caajiib, tell that to the poor and destitute who will no doubt end up being the lone victims in all of this.

 

I’m not sure if I should feel sorry for you or be angry for being a catalyst in our problems. I have to say, you are one strange character, full of hate to the point that it has affected your thinking. I can only but sympathise with what happened with your brother (as in all honesty I would not know how that feels), but does it have to impact you to the point of transgression?

 

I was going to advise you to not allow your distaste of CY skew your thinking, but then you explained it nicely:

 

I just do have such a passionate abhorrence for Yeey and his backward clannish policies and for that reason alone,

I am willing to sacrifice my rationale.

Hence I won’t waste my time. Just know that, adeer Qanyare is in it for his own, he doesn’t care about you or anyone else for that matter. He doesn’t care about Xamar or its inhabitants. He has done absolutely nothing to create any good in Mogadishu. Know that today you support him, tomorrow you fight by him and then next week he turns on you. That is the sort of relationship you will have with these fools.

 

May you have a short union in the hope that Allah guides you away from this evil.

[Paragon]

My brother was imprisoned and killed in Boosaaso and his business apropriated by some corrupt officials.

OLOL, sorry about your brother, my sympathy is with you. Sxb it is understandable to hold personal enmnities. But such personal feelings shouldn't stop you thinking about that which is good or is detrimental to the Somali nation as it were. OLOL, from your above post I realise that you are predicting a catastrophic war that is justified on the basis of 'some' warlords or 'leaders' being stooges of Ethiopia. Sxb, in the murky scene of Somali politics, everyone is a stooge, even those who carry religeous veil.

 

So it is insufficient to call some stooges while portraying others as being saints. Doing so only makes one seem biased from the outset. C/Y, similar to others in Somali politics, can't do without external support. To believe he can is to delude ourselves from the facts. However, what we should always have in mind should be the needs of the Somali mass. It is because of our needs that C/Y was elected a 'president' by warlords and on his shoulders rest national responsibilies which vital for the peaceful resolution of the war, and the rehabilitation of the war-stricken Somali nation.

 

Now, how can that be achieved? That can only be achieved through his government's efforts coupled with the collective consent of the Somali mass, which is already there. But what if such is glossed over with fake nationalism by certain factions? Which is the priority: peace or nationalism without peace? How can there be nationalism (that fights external enemies) when there is no internal peace to begin with? When the child continues to die of malnutrition and civilians die as a consequence of daily fightings? Objections to government in the name of nationalism in today's Somalia is surely a classic oxymoron.

 

Similar to those whose claim to be nationalists, I know there is there is a paradox in both C/Y and the warlords' appeals, but C/Y's paradox seems to be the acceptable one. If anyone is a true nationalist then he/she must allow the reinstatement social and government stractures. Only when such reinstatement takes, are we in a position to appeal for nationalism. To appeal for nationalism today is to put the cart before the horse. It doesn't work that way.

 

So please let us compromise here, because the more we squable about these things the more we weaker we get. What is at stake here is Somaliness as we know it and it needs salvaging. Let us put in place the insfrustracture for salvation, and only then think of external enemies.

[OLOL]

Rahima, the uncle Qanyare reference in my preceding post was just a figurative speech.

( the fitting label should have been Abti Sudi or Abkoow Ato, but then, it would have been taken out of context yet again.)

 

You take things literally and I empathize with your emotional lecturing and preaching. I do care about the innocent poor masses and I do abhor all warlords regardless of what clan or canton they hail from. As a matter of fact, I do belong to a non-governmental charity that feeds the internally displaced and repatriates them to their villages and if you have been to Xamar, you must have came across the so many conscious and generous individuals sacrificing all their time and energy to pro-actively change things from the grassroots.

 

None of the warlords is a saint but all of sudden the most ruthless and the worst of them is elevated and canonized to high stature of eminence by hypocrites because of clan affiliation. Well that kind of hypocrisy impairs my benevolent judgment.

 

In spite of everything I do subscribe to the stubborn and dejected pessimists and realists who see a second civil war as a necessary evil as long as we have clannish pretenders.(chicken-heart and lily-liver punks who can't even fight back)

 

Why did I come to this gloomy conclusion? Simple! The same unqualified clannish hordes are now at the forerunner to lead and are once again envisaging another round of nepotism and national blunder. The same folks who failed us miserably for 45 years, are now hypnotized by Yeey premature edge over other warlords? Well, every blockhead can see that Yeey, albeit being an ailing octogenarian, is on a mission to hatch up another gory strife in Mogadishu. It would be futile and witless to wait the looming disaster in Xamar. The rival warlords and other vested interests should be proactive and launch a clean sweep offensive on Jowhar and have to be ferociously decisive before it is too late.

The urgency to annihilate all these Ethiopian puppets is now more important than stabilizing Mogadishu and its surroundings. it is as simple as that.

 

it takes a lifetime campaign to eradicate clan-ism. one more thing, the clan concordance applies only to Puntland and Somaliland ( because of the small populace and monlithic outlook of the few dominant clans living there) and not Mogadishu for it is more complicated than that. Mogadishu is as a cosmopolitan city populated by people of disparate interests. hopefully when it is feasible, we wil have a national demographic census to dispell myths.

[Gabbal]

Excellent! I hope you'll be as ready and eager reporting from the FRONTLINE live.

Here, here.

[wind.talker]

Originally posted by OLOL:

None of the warlords is a saint but all of sudden the most ruthless and the worst of them is elevated and canonized to high stature of eminence by hypocrites because of clan affiliation.

So, you un-do this great injustice by elevating the stature of other warlords who are presumed enemies of Col Yeey? :confused:

 

In circles we continue to go...

[OLOL]

Well, I am neither elevating nor dethroning any warlord’s stature. Warlords come and go. We may have dirty dozens today but tomorrow there could emerge a countless number of warlords and other opportunists. So why not better embrace the few we got now and rehabilitate them in order to prevent a later upsurge of other thugs.

 

I think some of you pragmatists oppose a preemptive war on Jowhar to root out Yeey's implicit nuisance is that its outcome, even though predictable may worsen the already fragile attempt to pacify the whole country and reconcile clans. Some of you may also worry that the cost of starting a war outweighs the open-ended reimbursement of winning it and ask who will be paying such preliminary cost and who will be reaping its benefits?

 

As a very prudent realist, I could contend that clans are not the enemy and neither Ghedi not Yeey represent any clan interest other than Ethiopia’s say-so of keeping Somalia perpetually a conflict-ridden weak state. Subsequently, I could justify my argument that going with an offensive to settle this stalemate for good, may actually strengthen Somalia’s hope of restoring its governance once again. This is a legitimate approach and it can be popularized among all partisan cohorts. The benefit, as I alluded, is that we will have no more Melez stooges in Somali’s predisposed political affairs. What more could one ask for?

[Rahima]

and if you have been to Xamar, you must have came across the so many conscious and generous individuals sacrificing all their time and energy to pro-actively change things from the grassroots.

Exactly, I have seen and this is the exact reason why I abhor any sort of war and equally abhor those who are calling for it. These people who cry this slogan brother are the same people who do absolutely nothing but instigate hurdles for this good. For every good action taken, they create a hundred problems. Allow me to give you a small example. Whilst I was in Somalia as you might know there was a fierce battle waging in Southern Mudug. The same generous individuals who you speak of (who run all the hospitals, schools, assist the refugees, the poor etc) refused to take part, forget with their selves, they refused to pay funds. Guess what Caato and his henchmen then did? Tried to kidnap these same good decent hard-working men because they refused to hand over $100 to kill their Muslim brothers. Amazing isn’t it. I’ve always despised these sorts of people, but when you see it for yourself and you listen to their backward thinking, you can’t but help get emotional. When you see the number of people that require so much help yet these morons are blocking the good efforts, you can’t help but get emotional. Therefore, why should I or you or any other person who actually cares then support these imbeciles in any way? We should have standards brother and even in times of desperation they should be stuck to.

 

CY as much as he is not my favourite person in the world, is our president. He was elected by the same fools who today oppose him. I’m beginning to agree with the argument that they elected him because they do not want a government, they want to continue their xaraam and having a government would most probably bring this to an end. Sure he isn’t my choice, or yours, or winds or HA, but we can’t do anything about it. I know it sounds almost too clichéd, but we must work for the greater good. I personally believe in having something first, anything, then fixing it. Going through a second civil war will undo all the good work thus far achieved in the South. Going into battle simply because one detests a particular individual and what he stands for is not a good enough reason. One needs to weigh up the pros and cons, even putting Islam aside, look at it from a logical point of view. Who do you think will suffer? Certainly not CY, Bossaso or Gaalkacyo will certainly not be effected rather the places you claim to love and have personal interests in will reap the consequences. What about the number of people that will undoubtedly die, the young children, the poor women, the innocent and most disheartening the good people of the community.

 

Let’s just assume that a second civil did break out, CY was defeated, then what? Do you think that for one second these imbeciles have enough brains to reconcile? They had 14 freaking years brother, 14 and they achieved nothing, nutta. How can you then pin your hopes on them again? I’ll tell you what they’d do in such a situation, they’d elect a god-forsaken leader once again and in most probably a few short months turn on each other again like the cave men they are, and as wind stated go around in circles to be doomed forever. What did they achieve by overthrowing Siyaad Barre? Nothing! We had self-respect, we had a country, we had an education system, health system, we had all of that and I’m not defending his wrong actions, but they did not weigh up the options. At least it could be argued that Somaliland benefited somewhat, but what have the south benefited?

 

Sometimes brother you need to put aside your personal feelings to achieve the goal- in the case of our country, a functioning (not necessarily a perfect) government not to eradicate clannism (this is going to take a very very long time, if ever). We need to give this government and any other attempts a chance, for the sake of Somalia.

[OLOL]

Rahima, well, I am hardened man and I don't give damn about a Somali unity no more. It is a deception that I can't afford anymore. I do have three nationalities and I wholeheartedly support the brothers in the north and their insistence to do away with the south? Do you have any idea why they do mistrust us in the south? It is not that they hate us....they just have come to a deeper philosophical understanding about the hypocrisy of some camps and their nostalgic yearning to dominate others. If we let these clannish parasites to govern again, they will make the things even worse and Somalia as we may know will cease to exist. we will have then little clannish enclaves and fiefdoms.

 

 

If you really sincere and serious about a lasting peace in Somalia, present me another alternative argument other than Yeey is our elected president and the flimsy “bad government is better than no government†line of reasoning. i am not happy with a government of warlods, for the warlords, by the warlords. No it is not sinking in at all, so save the pleas!

 

 

I don’t believe in governments at all and I don’t appreciate a dominant one. I want an effective, competent, decentralized one, not the inflated and cumbersome kind envisioned by Ghedi. ( 92 ministers? for what? 8 million people from one of the poorest nation in the whole universe? contrast that with Bush's cabinet of 25, representing 300 million people and the most powerful, only super power on planet earth...give me a break!!)

 

Why is it all of sudden Yeey’s advisors and close trustees are recruited from his immediate clansmen? That is just a sign of how illusory and myopic these folks are. They have shown us their clannish design while in exile before they could even establish themselves and set foot in the country. What do you expect when they are instilled in the presidential palace and extended to a red carpet reception? they will appopriate all the nation's patrimony and engage in a nepotistic cronyism, before you know, it is another dejavu all over again ...another inta madaxa madoow and Siyaadist weltanschauung!!

 

 

I am for a peaceful broadminded co-existence and free-for-all egalitarianism but not wishy-washy clan ownership.

 

Sister, I was once so accommodating and so carefree that I was willing to accept and embrace whatever the outcome of the Embaghathi sham was. I did strive my best to put aside my antipathy for Yeey but after witnessing the blind support and fanfare in unison from his immediate clansmen, I have came to the conclusion, that no matter what we do, these provincial nomadic folks will never ever give up their clannish aspirations and will never ever put the interest of the nation before that of their clan.

 

One more thing, don’t tell me about suffering and pain for I had my share of it at the hands of the warlords from all sides, from bari to galbeed, from waqooyi to koonfur. Just don't transgress and don't make mockery of the anguish of the powerless!

 

 

I don’t know why you have to align me with warlords specially the ones in Mogadishu.?

 

is it i am from there? or call these men adeer and abti ....again, you just being a typical Somali using thr clan association formula. I am an individual and as Somali as any other person.

 

I am determined to see that these cold-blooded men’s clout dwindle and vanish, until then I will have no other choice but to work with them patiently to make sure that my city of birth becomes free of gangs, violence and mayhem. however for the moment, i will susbscribe to the "lesser of the two evils" principle!

[Jumatatu]

Originally posted by OLOL:

until then I will have no other choice but to work with them patiently to make sure that my city of birth becomes free of gangs, violence and mayhem.

Which is why the Mbagathi goverment for the warlords, by the warlords was established. To give them a way in which they can form a government to pave the way for a more democratic one that can answer the need of the people in the future. Theoritically it was that untill the warlord they elected for president decided that only what he says and wants is the word of the government. As result the scenario of today..mayhem.

Now of i u can come up with another way to by-pass the warlords..am all ears.

[Garyaqaan2]

olol

well, I am hardened man and I don't give damn about a Somali unity no more. It is a deception that I can't afford anymore. I do have three nationalities and I wholeheartedly support the brothers in the north and their insistence to do away with the south?

 

 

wooooow sxb I beilve these statment you just made tell's all about you.

 

You lost all your hope and that is not good.

 

the prophat scw said aneday without a government is better the 50 year and evil government to rule you.

 

you seem like very educated bro and you are comparing with us the U.S.

 

 

No one like's C/Y but hey if he can fix these problem give him a chance would you.

 

 

Caydiid alaha unaxariistee tried no one give him chance . then we hade Ali mahdi same reason no one give him chance. C/qaasim came we locked him in hotle so is that what we want to say every hope we got NO,NO,NO.

 

let them establish something for us and let them die so that, You and Me and the rest of sol we contue.... from there.

[Johnny B]

********JB, please don't post inuslts on our website. Please don't get personal with others. Stop calling people names.

 

This is a warning

 

Admin

Somalia Online

*************

 

[ June 30, 2005, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Admin ]

[Rahima]

^I’ve being labeled many things- I think if memory serves me correctly I’ve even being labeled a lackey of CY. It doesn’t worry me, I’m certain of myself and most often they are results of me dishing them some truths .

 

You shouldn’t take it personal; I’ve addressed many others, many other times in different threads (which is why I’ve had the pleasure of being called almost everything possible on SOL). This is my first time addressing you, and after the hoochie mama comment I’m not sure if ever I should do it again. Allah walaahi I actually laughed out loud on that one , we only ever hear of such a word on those cheap American talk shows, and although I’m not sure what exactly it means, if I was the type to take this net thing seriously, I think I’d be offended, but that’s ok cousin Rahima is as tough as nails. I think I was in a bad mood that day, but get the gist of the message dear old cousin, the way I see it is, the less cheerleaders for these warlords the less poison around. At the very least if you care about your tribe, these men are not the way to go. There are more productive avenues to take .

 

OLOL,

 

I aligned you with the Mogadishu warlords not based on tribe but because of your aversion for anything CY and co. In the case of a second civil war, the lines would be clearly drawn; on one side would be CY and co and on the other the Mogadishu warlords. You’ve chosen your side, and irrespective of what you may think of them normally, this is the side you selected.

 

I still stand by what I said of were it to happen and CY was defeated, nothing would be solved. Back to square one, early 90s again and around we go again never to progress. Even if CY proved to be the worst leader any nation had ever seen and everyone were to agree he needs to be overthrown, i'd never trust the task in the hands of the warlords of Somalia.

 

I sympathise with your views about certain supporters of the government making matters worse (and I’ve said so previously in this forum), but do as what most of us do, just ignore them -I don’t think I can give anymore sound advice. CY is but a man, these supporters are but mere men, Somalia will be around for a longer time to come. Inshallah as time moves on you will be able to restore the hope you once had, because there is probably nothing worse than to loose hope.

[Johnny B]

[QUOUTE] Originally postted by Admin:

********JB, please don't post inuslts on our website. Please don't get personal with others. Stop calling people names.

 

This is a warning

 

Admin

Somalia Online

*************

Dear Admin , Rahima is the last person i might insult if i EVER will insult anyone.

And i don´t THINK Rahima got offended by that lil triviality.

 

If u followed the thread there wasen´t a heated discussion or anything of that sort

Hence i´ll continue treating Rahima just as i used to ( full respect n a lil bit of teasing ), but this time i´m more sensible to the fact that i may get banned.