Kowneyn Posted August 1, 2004 The Ghadir Declaration Preface Today is 18 Dhul-hijjah, the day when the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) stayed at GhadÄ«r Khum after his return from Hajjat-ul-wadÄ‘ to Medina, and surrounded by the Companions (رضي الله عنهم), he declared while raising the hand of ‘AlÄ« al-MurtadÄ (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم): مَنْ ÙƒÙنت٠مَولاه٠ÙعَلÙيٌّ مَولاه٠One who has me as his master has ‘AlÄ« as his master. This was the declaration of ‘Alī’s spiritual sovereignty and its unconditional acceptance is binding on the believers till the Day of Judgment. It clearly proves that anyone who denies ‘Alī’s spiritual leadership in fact denies the Prophet’s leadership. This most humble follower of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) felt that some people deny this reality partly out of ignorance and partly out of prejudice, which is spreading unnecessary tension in the Muslim community. Under the circumstances I thought it necessary to write two pamphlets on the issue of sovereignty and leadership: one titled as The GhadÄ«r Declaration and the other titled The Awaited ImÄm. The former is designed to clarify the status of ‘AlÄ« (عليه السلام) as the opener of the spiritual sovereignty and the latter is designed to describe the status of ImÄm MahdÄ« (عليه السلام), the seal of spiritual sovereignty. The main purpose is to remove the doubts that have gathered around the issue and to make the Muslims aware of the reality. The spiritual sovereignty of ‘AlÄ« and MahdÄ« (عليهما السلام) are proved by the authentic hadÄ«th-books of Ahl-us-Sunnah wal-JamÄ‘ah, in the form of continuous traditions, that is, there is uninterrupted evidence to endorse the soundness of the claim. In the first pamphlet I have included 51 traditions which are authentically documented. The reason for this number is that this year I have completed 51 years of my life. Therefore, I have relied on the relationship of figure to make my humble contribution to the glory of ‘AlÄ« al-MurtadÄ (عليه السلام) and to seek the divine blessing through an expression of my humility. I propose to establish the point that three forms of legacy are derived from the person of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم): The spiritual legacy of internal (hidden) sovereignty. The political legacy of external (manifest) sovereignty. general legacy of religious sovereignty. The first form of legacy was given to the members of the Prophet’s family. The second form of legacy was given to the rightly-guided caliphs. The third form of legacy was given to the Companions and the Successors (رضي الله عنهم). The internal sovereignty is the fountainhead of Prophet Muhammad’s vicegerency which not only safeguarded the spiritual achievements and hidden blessings of the religion of Islam, but also introduced the people to the blessings of Prophet Muhammad’s spiritualism. The fountains of spiritual sovereignty, saintliness and reformation originated from it. The external sovereignty is the fountainhead of Prophet Muhammad’s vicegerency which led to the practical dominance of the religion of Islam as well as its enforcement as a symbol of worldly power. It paved the way for the creation of different Islamic states and introduced the Prophet Muhammad’s sharī‘ah as the world system. The general legacy is the fountainhead of Prophet Muhammad’s vicegerency which promoted the teachings of Islam as well as the righteous deeds in the Muslim community. It not only helped in the preservation of knowledge and piety among the Muslims but also in the evolution and dissemination of Islamic morality. Thus the three legacies may be summed up as: The legacy of spiritualism. The legacy of dominion. The legacy of guidance. ShÄh WalÄ« AllÄh (رØمة الله تعالى عليه) has commented on this division of legacy in the following words: پس وارث آنØضرت هم بسه قسم منقسم اند, Ùوراثه الذين أخذوا الØكمة Ùˆ العصمة Ùˆ القطبية الباطنية, هم أهل بيته Ùˆ خاصته, Ùˆ وراثه الذين أخذوا الØÙظ Ùˆ التلقين Ùˆ القطبية الظاهرة الإرشادية, هم أصØابه الكبار كالخلÙاء الأربعة Ùˆ سائر العشرة, Ùˆ وراثه الذين أخذوا العنايات الجزئية Ùˆ التقوى Ùˆ العلم, هم أصØابه الذين Ù„Øقوا بإØسان كأنس Ùˆ أبي هريرة Ùˆ غيرهم من المتأخرين, Ùهذه ثلاثة مراتب متÙرعة من كمال خاتم الرسل صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم People who have received the Prophet’s legacy are of three kinds: ‘The first kind is of those who received wisdom, virtuousness and inner enlightenment from him. These are the members of his family and dignitaries. The second group is of those who received the legacy of external blessings from him in the form of virtuousness, religious instruction and manifest guidance. These are his Companions, eg the four (rightly-guided) caliphs and the ten (Companions) who received glad tidings (of paradise from the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)). The third group is of those who received individual blessings from him in the form of knowledge and piety. These are the people who were steeped in the virtue of selflessness, like Anas and AbÅ« Hurayrah (رضي الله تعالى عنهما), and the people who came later.’ The three forms of legacy owe their origin to the finality of messengership. It may be noted that this division is based on convenience and distinction as each form of legacy shares the qualities of other legacies: In dominion, AbÅ« Bakr as-SiddÄ«q (رضي الله عنه) was a directly appointed deputy of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). In spiritualism and saintliness ‘AlÄ« al-MurtadÄ (رضي الله عنه) was his directly appointed deputy. In guidance all of his Companions and Caliphs (رضي الله عنه) were his directly appointed deputies. It means that three forms of permanent study were born out of the finality of prophethood for the eternal propagation of Prophet Muhammad’s blessings: Political legacy Spiritual legacy Intellectual and practical legacy The political legacy of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was known as khilÄfah rÄshidah (the rightly-guided caliphate). The spiritual legacy of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was known as wilÄyah (spiritual sovereignty) and imÄmah (spiritual leadership). The intellectual and practical legacy of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) came to be known as guidance and belief. Therefore, the first man of political legacy was AbÅ« Bakr as-SiddÄ«q (رضي الله عنه), the first man of spiritual legacy was ‘AlÄ« al-MurtadÄ (عليه السلام), and the first men of intellectual and practical legacy were the Companions (رضي الله عنه). So all these legatees were independently appointed within their own orbits of influence and had no clash or contradiction with one another. The other important point is that these legacies also stand apart in many other matters: The manifest caliphate is the political office of the religion of Islam. The hidden caliphate is exclusively a spiritual office. The manifest caliphate is an elective and consultative issue. The hidden caliphate is an inherent and selective act. The manifest caliph is elected by the people. The hidden caliph is elected by God. The manifest caliph is elected. The hidden caliph is selected. This is the reason that the first caliph AbÅ« Bakr as-SiddÄ«q (رضي الله عنه) was elected on the basis of ‘Umar FÄrÅ«q’s proposal and the support of the majority of public opinion. But the election of the first ImÄm of spiritual sovereignty — ‘AlÄ« al-MurtadÄ (عليه السلام) — required neither anybody’s proposal nor support. Caliphate was a democratic act, therefore, the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) did not declare it. Spiritual leadership was an act of designation; therefore, the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) declared it in the valley of GhadÄ«r Khum. The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) left the election of the caliph to the will of the people, but himself announced his spiritual heir with the divine consent. Caliphate is established for improving the administration of the earth. Spiritual leadership is established to beautify it with the heavenly charm and grace. Caliphate makes men just. Spiritual leadership makes them perfect. Caliphate is confined to the floor. Spiritual leadership extends to the Throne. Caliphate is ineffective without crowning. Spiritual leadership is effective even without crowning. This is probably the reason that caliphate is entrusted to the Ummah, and Spiritual leadership is entrusted to the progeny. “Thus we can deny neither the khilÄfah (caliphate; political leadership) nor the wilÄyah (spiritual leadership). The direct caliphate of AbÅ« Bakr as-SiddÄ«q (رضي الله عنه) was established with the consensus of the people and is categorically proved by the evidence of history. The direct spiritual leadership of ‘AlÄ« al-MurtadÄ (عليه السلام) was announced by the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) himself and is categorically proved by the evidence of unbroken chain of traditions. The proof of the caliphate is the consensus of the Companions (رضي الله عنهم), the proof of spiritual sovereignty (wilÄyah) is the declaration of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). One who denies the caliphate in fact denies history and consensus, and one who denies the spiritual leadership (wilÄyah) denies the Prophet’s declaration. Therefore, both the caliphate and the spiritual leadership are inescapable realities. What is urgently needed is a clear understanding of the reality of the two institutions in order to present them to the people as unity, and not as division.†It should be understood that just as the manifest caliphate started with the early caliphs and its blessings percolated down to the righteous and just rulers, similarly the hidden caliphate started with ‘AlÄ« al-MurtadÄ (عليه السلام) and its blessings gradually trickled to the members of the Prophet’s family and the saints of the Ummah. By means of the declaration — مَنْ ÙƒÙنْت٠مَولاه٠ÙَعَلÙيٌّ مَولاه٠(one who has me as his master has ‘AlÄ« as his master) — and — عليّ وليكم من بعدي (‘AlÄ« is your spiritual leader after me) — the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) pronounced ‘AlÄ« (عليه السلام) as the opener of the spiritual kingdom. ShÄh WalÄ« AllÄh (رØمة الله تعالى عليه) says: Ùˆ ÙاتØ٠اَوّل اَزين اÙمت مرØومه Øضرت على مرتضى است كرم الله تعالى وجهه In this Ummah the first person to open the door of spiritual dominion is ‘AlÄ« al-MurtadÄ (كرم الله تعالى وجهه). Ùˆ سÙر Øضرت اَمير كرم الله وجهه در اولاد كرام ايشان رضي الله عنهم سرايت كرد The secret of spiritual dominion of the leader permeated his progeny. چنانكه كسى اَز اولياء امت نيست الا بخاندان٠مرتضى رضي الله عنه مرتبط است بوجهى اَز وجوه Therefore, not a single saint is found in the Ummah who is not directly or indirectly indebted to the spiritual leadership of ‘AlÄ« ((عليه السلام) to attain spiritual leadership). Ùˆ اَز اÙمت آنØضرت صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم اَوّل كسيكه ÙØ§ØªØ Ø¨Ø§Ø¨ جذب شده است, Ùˆ دران جا قدم نهاده است Øضرت امير المؤمنين على كرم الله وجهه, Ùˆ لهذا سلاسل طرق بدان جانب راجع ميشوند The first person in the Prophet’s Ummah who opened the ecstasy gate of spiritual sovereignty and who stepped (firstly) on to this elevated spot is ‘AlÄ« (كرم الله وجهه). That is why different chains of spirituality turn to him. 5. ShÄh WalÄ« AllÄh (رØمة الله تعالى عليه) writes: “Now in Ummah anyone who is blessed with spiritual leadership by AllÄh’s Messenger (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is indebted either to ‘AlÄ« al-MurtadÄ (عليه السلام) or to the Chief Helper JÄ«lÄnÄ« (رØمة الله تعالى عليه). No one can reach the status of wilÄyah without this (indebted-ness).†It may be noted that the relationship with Chief Helper is a ray of the lamp that is ‘AlÄ« al-MurtadÄ (عليه السلام) and therefore indebtedness to him is in fact indebtedness to ‘AlÄ« (عليه السلام). ShÄh IsmÄ‘īl DihlawÄ« has clarified this point: AlÄ« al-MurtadÄ (عليه السلام) has also an edge over AbÅ« Bakr as-SiddÄ«q (رضي الله عنه) and ‘Umar FÄrÅ«q (رضي الله عنه) and this edge lies because of the greater number of his followers and all the highest spiritual and saintly activity, from his days to the end of the world, has to be mediated through him, and he has a say in the kingdom of the kings and the leadership of the leaders and this is not hidden from those who are familiar with the world of sovereignty… Most spiritual chains are directly derived from ‘AlÄ« al-MurtadÄ (عليه السلام). So, on the Day of Judgement, ‘Alī’s army including followers of high status and great reputation, will outnumber and outshine others to be a source of wonder for all the spectators.†This spiritual treasure house, whose fountainhead is ‘AlÄ« al-MurtadÄ (عليه السلام), is shared by FÄtimah, Hasan and Husayn (عليه السلام) as its direct legatees and then it was filtered down to the twelve ImÄms (spiritual leaders), the last leader being ImÄm MahdÄ« (عليه السلام). Just as ‘AlÄ« al-MurtadÄ (عليه السلام) is the opener of spiritual sovereignty, ImÄm MahdÄ« (عليه السلام) is the seal of spiritual sovereignty. The words of Shaykh Ahmad SarhandÄ« (رØمة الله تعالى عليه) appropriately highlight the point: Ùˆ راهى است كه بقرب ولايت تعلق دارد: اقطاب Ùˆ اوتاد Ùˆ بدلاء Ùˆ نجباء Ùˆ عامه اولياء الله, به همين راه واصل اندراه سلوك عبارت ازين راه است بلكه جذبه متعارÙÙ‡, نيز داخل همين است Ùˆ توسط Ùˆ Øيلولت درين راه كانن است Ùˆ پيشواى, Ùˆ اصلان اين راه Ùˆ سرگروه اينها Ùˆ منبع Ùيض اين بزرگواران: Øضرت على مرتضى است كرم الله تعالى وجهه الكريم, Ùˆ اين منصب عظيم الشان بايشان تعلق دارد درينمقام گونيا هر دو قدم مبارك آنسرور عليه Ùˆ على آله الصلوة Ùˆ السلام بر Ùرق مبارك اوست كرم الله تعالى وجهه Øضرت Ùاطمه Ùˆ Øضرات Øسنين رضي الله عنهم درينمقام با ايشان شريكند, انكارم كه Øضرت امير قبل از نشاءه عنصرى نيز ملاذ اين مقام بوده اند, چنانچه بعد از نشاءه عنصرى Ùˆ هر كرا Ùيض Ùˆ هدايت ازين راه ميرسيد بتوسط ايشان ميرسيد Ú†Ù‡ ايشان نزد نقطه منتهائى اين راه Ùˆ مركز اين مقام بايشان تعلق دارد, Ùˆ چون دوره Øضرت امير تمام شد اين منصب عظيم القدر بØضرات Øسنين ترتيبا Ù…Ùوض Ùˆ مسلم گشت, Ùˆ بعد از ايشان بهريكى از ائمه اثنا عشر على الترتيب Ùˆ التÙصيل قرار Ú¯Ùت Ùˆ در اعصاراين بزرگواران Ùˆ همچنين يعد از ارتØال ايشان هر كرا Ùيض Ùˆ هدايت ميرسيد بتوسط اين بزرگواران بوده Ùˆ بØيلولة ايشانان هر چند اقطاب Ùˆ نجباى وقت بوده باشند, Ùˆ ملاذ Ùˆ ملجاء همه ايشان روده اند Ú†Ù‡ اطرا٠را غير از Ù„Øوق بمركز چاره نيست. And there is another way close to the spiritual sovereignty and this is the way of the saints and the general friends of AllÄh, and this way is marked by its characteristic passion and it carries the guarantee of mediation and the leader and chieftain of the saints of this way is ‘AlÄ« al-MurtadÄ (كرم الله تعالى وجهه الكريم). And this grand office is reserved for him. On this way, the feet of the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) are on ‘Alī’s head and FÄtimah and Hasan and Husayn (عليهم السلام) are included with him. I believe that he enjoyed this position even before his physical birth, as he did after it, and whosoever has received the divine blessing and guidance, has received it through him, because he is closest to the last point on this way and the centre of this spot belongs to him. And when his period ended, the grand office passed on to Hasan and Husayn (رضي الله تعالى عنهما) and then on to each one of the twelve ImÄms, individually and elaborately. And whosoever received guidance in their life and after their death, received it through these saints. And the refuge and place of shelter of the saints of high ranks are these saints, (because they are the centre of all spiritual activity) and the sides tend to converge on the centre. Shaykh Ahmad SarhandÄ« (رØمة الله تعالى عليه) believes that ImÄm MahdÄ« (عليه السلام) will be with ‘AlÄ« al-MurtadÄ (عليه السلام) in the caravan of sovereignty or spiritual leadership. The gist of the discussion is that the Prophet’s declaration at GhadÄ«r Khum proved forever that ‘Alī’s spiritual sovereignty is in fact the Prophet Muhammad’s spiritual sovereignty. Though the door of prophethood was closed after the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), AllÄh opened new avenues for the continuation of the Prophet’s blessings till the Day of Judgement. Some of these avenues were manifest, while others hidden. The hidden avenue led to spiritual sovereignty and ‘AlÄ« al-MurtadÄ (عليه السلام) was the first person to hold this office. Then this chain of sovereignty passed down to his progeny and finally to the twelve ImÄms. During this period, many leaders appeared on the spiritual horizon but they all, direcly or indirectly, expressed their allegiance to ‘AlÄ« al-MurtadÄ (عليه السلام). No one was disaffiliated from him and this chain will continue up to the Day of Judgement until the appearance of the last ImÄm (spiritual leader), and he will be ImÄm Muhammad MahdÄ« (عليه السلام), the twelfth ImÄm and the last caliph. In his person, the manifest and the hidden paths which ran parallel to each other will be rejoined, as he will be the spiritual as well as the political legatee, and he will be the last person to hold these offices. Any one who denies ImÄm MahdÄ« (عليه السلام) will deny both the manifest and hidden forms of religion. This will be the climax of the Prophet Muhammad’s manifestation. Therefore, he will be named Muhammad and he will also resemble the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) in moral excellence, so that the world should know that he is the trustee of the manifest and hidden legacies of Muhammad’s blessings. That is why the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said, “Anyone who denies MahdÄ« will be a disbeliever.†At that time, he will be the focus of all saints on earth, and, being the leader of Prophet Muhammad’s Ummah, ‘ĪsÄ (عليه السلام) will offer his prayer behind him and proclaim his leadership to the whole world. So we should realize that ‘AlÄ« al-MurtadÄ (عليه السلام) and MahdÄ« (عليه السلام) — the father and the son — are both AllÄh’s friends and the Prophet’s legatees. It is therefore binding on every believer to acknowledge their exceptional status. May AllÄh bless the servants of the Prophet’s family with their guidance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mutakalim Posted August 1, 2004 The incontrovertible proof of "al-qadeer". There is a whole encyclopedic work (more than 15 volumes) dedicated to this date in Islam. The title of the work escapes me.... Sada allahu id yaquulu "Al yama akmaltu lakum diinukum wa radiitu lakum al-islaama diinan" With Salaams Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Haddad Posted August 1, 2004 Originally posted by Kowneyn: ‘Alī (عليه السلام) Perhaps my memory is rusty, but I understand when we mention one of the khulafa'ul rashidun, a sahabi or one of the most revered Islamic figures, we also say (radhiyalaahu canhu). I know Ali bin Abu-Talib (karamalaahu wajhuhu) was a unique revered Islamic figure. I have come across many ahadith when his name is mentioned, (karamalaahu wajhuhu) follows. However, I don't recall where (calayhi salam) is said after his name is mentioned. Please, clarify for me. Shukran. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kowneyn Posted August 1, 2004 Mutakalim: This scholar and many other muslim like him, both sunnah and shia, are forming a bridge between the differing schools. As the following statement shows: “Thus we can deny neither the khilÄfah (caliphate; political leadership) nor the wilÄyah (spiritual leadership). The direct caliphate of AbÅ« Bakr as-SiddÄ«q (رضي الله عنه) was established with the consensus of the people and is categorically proved by the evidence of history. The direct spiritual leadership of ‘AlÄ« al-MurtadÄ (عليه السلام) was announced by the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) himself and is categorically proved by the evidence of unbroken chain of traditions. The proof of the caliphate is the consensus of the Companions (رضي الله عنهم), the proof of spiritual sovereignty (wilÄyah) is the declaration of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). One who denies the caliphate in fact denies history and consensus, and one who denies the spiritual leadership (wilÄyah) denies the Prophet’s declaration. Therefore, both the caliphate and the spiritual leadership are inescapable realities. What is urgently needed is a clear understanding of the reality of the two institutions in order to present them to the people as unity, and not as division.†Kowneyn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nur Posted August 1, 2004 Haddad The Shia believe the imaams to be infallible like prophets that is why they refer to them as Aleyhi Salaam, like prophets. Kowneyn Thank you for posting this great post, it realy serves well to show the hidden concept of the Shia verifying the divinity of of Ali and the imaams, assuming that you know the meaning of the word sovereign in the English, it does not come as a surprise that you are looking every corner to substantiate the Divinity of Ali as the word sovereign connotes, because in the Arabic language Sovereign means SAMAD,and Allah alone is SAMAD, no one above him, beacsue even the prophet SAWS was addressed as ABD a slave in the the night of Israa and Miraaj. Assuming that this hadeeth is saxiix, do you think that Allah Prophet would be so negligent as to make such a subtle remark on an issue, the Imaamah of Ali, which according to the Shia philosophy is the fifth pillar of islam? Does it make sense that men who laid their lives and money on the line all their lives, who left their homes, wives and tribe migarati ng with the prophet SAWS, who married his daughters, and he nmarried their daughters, who have never disobeyed him will all in a sudden after his death become ruthless power hungry men who would steal Fatimas land, Ali's Wilaayah, and then enjoy power like any other leader we know? Of all the men who spent all their lives and wealth, all became kuffaar and only four men stood with Ali? Does it make sense that Ali, knowing he is the Spiritual Sovereign, would peacefully follow Abubakar, and then Omar and then Othman, only to fight when he was a caliph? I am curently working on a post that will explain the basis of the Shia religion, toi show that the Shia worship the imaams as gods other than Allah SWT, that they have changed the context of the religion that they are committing major shirk , but till I post, for the sake of balancing your claim, here are many sources of Shia scholars sources on the honorable imaams: The Shia as described by Ali , Hassan , Hussein and Al Baaqir, May Allah be pleased with all of them. amin. 1. Al Kaafi/ Al Rowdha, Volume 8 page 338 " If I classify my shia I would find them nothing but (Waasifah)(meaning close to traitor, useless), and if I test them (their faith), I wouldn't find them but apostates (murtaddeen), and if I filter them finely, for substance, I wouldn't even find from every thousand (followers) a single (good one) 2. Nahjul Balaagha, page 142 (warning, under 18 should not read the following statement supposedly said by Ali Radiyallahu canhu addressing his Shia followers army who left him for the birds and deserted him unprotected when he counted on their support against the enemy; " ( You are)Deaf, who hear, and Dumb, who speak, and blind who who see, no integrity nor bravery when you meet the enemy, nor reliable brothers when hardships befall, you have spread away from me( running to all directions in fear , leaving Ali all alone behind enemey line) similar to the spreading of the vagina of a woman" Also read, Nahjul Balaagha, pages 70-71 3. Al Irshad lil Mufeed, page241 Imaam Hussein's Prayer ( Habaar) against his Shia: " O Allah, if you give them a respite, divide them to many groups, and many sects, and never make rulers satified with them, because they called us called us to help us, but ( they tricked us) they transgressed againsed us and killed us" Also read Al Ixtijaaj, Volume 2 page 10, Volume 2, page 24, 29. Acyaan al Shia, Part one, page 34. 4. Rijaal Al Kashi,( Biographies of Al Kashi), Al Baqir Aleyhi Salaam said, " if all people where our Shia, 3/4 of them would have been suspicious about us, and the remaining 1/4, Stu-pid" Conclusion: 1. The Al Beit where annoyed by their followers, and did not trust them.( Who else can trust them when they instutionalize Tuqya as a principle to avoid confrontation until they are able to spread their true beliefs) 2. How the people of Kufah deceived the Al al beit into a bloody confrontation only to leave them to be slaughtered by the lost group. 3. Their origins were deception, evil, and Fitnah, and it continues to be acultue as we will post a complete documentary about the Shia's Tuqya beliefs, Imamah, Rajcah, Budaa'a and more. Nur 2004 e-Nuri Aqeedah Vigilante If You Don't Stand For Allah ALONE, You will Fall For Everything Else! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OG_Girl Posted August 1, 2004 Nur, I am sorry to have caught you again trying to mislead in the name of knowing Arabic and Islam as well. It is always honorable to say I don’t know when you don’t rather than misleading others. This is a religious matter and as such is dangerous to mislead people. Thus, I will correct you when you are wrong, even if I have to follow you from one thread to another. I am not doing this to be praised or gain favors from others but rather to correct your mistakes so that they do not mislead people. So wallalo my advice to you is, stop trying to show off and adjust your act. Furthermore, stop trying to bash Shi’a as this wont get you anywhere! The word SAMAD or SAMADA , can be used for people in Arabic, for instance, we often say, nahno samedon. Just as one does when they say, fulan is Hakeem (wise), or Raheem . Even though both of these words (Hakeem and Raheem) are the names of Allah, but since the Arabic language existed before Islam, we can use them in order to describe people. The word sovereignty in Arabic is NOT SAMAD – remember you are not only talking to someone who Arabic is her Mother tongue but also studied the language—so it rather simply means, ‘Governor, Leadership, King, Empire, etc. Thus, there is a lot to the meaning of this word and my advice to you is to check a dictionary, since you don’t seem to value what others in this forum write. Just rememeber, We are moslims and will never ever FOLLOW other than Islam. Messing with people's beliefs is not some thing you can get away easilly. I will defend religion (Islam) as long I am a life and will die as one of moslims Insha Allah. Kowneyn , Thanks wallalo for enlighting us here. Salam Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nur Posted August 1, 2004 Og Girl you write: "The word SAMAD or SAMADA , can be used for people in Arabic, for instance, we often say, nahno samedon. Just as one does when they say, fulan is Hakeem (wise), or Raheem . Even though both of these words (Hakeem and Raheem) are the names of Allah, but since the Arabic language existed before Islam, we can use them in order to describe people. " Answer: My Dear are you sure that you know what you are talking about? Samad with letter SAAD, is not Saamidoon in letter SIIN. I have never read or heard it ever. Again, for an axcercise please look up the Websters Dictionary and tell me the meaning of Sovereign. Again look up any Arabic Dictionary, like Mukhtaar Al Saxaax, Qaamuss Al Muxiid or any other to look up the meaning of SAMAD. List the meaning on the page for all to see Afterwords you have done your homework come back and tell me that the two have nothing to do with each other. If you cant take up the challenge I can do it for you, but again, you wont beleive me as usual because I am A SUNNI and you are taught never to believe SUNNIs Nur Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OG_Girl Posted August 1, 2004 Nur again you failed to read. Can you stop and read what others write for once in your life? Do you think I can't differentiate between 9aad or saad and siin? 9amad or Samad ( for example, Allaho Samad) is saad not siin and again we use it for our self or when we describe others.. for example as one of Allah's names and still we use it also as you took it as example!.I know they are different BUT still use it even though is one of Allah's names. Many people noticed you don't hear but yourself, so do me a favour and read for ONCE in your life please what others have written. How can you assume I don't believe in Sunnah?? Subhannah Allah!! Yes, I do believe and they are fellow Muslims and brothers in deen. I have NO problems with Sunnah whatsoever. We are different IN just opinion of our scholars and still we have in common major things or principles of ISLAM. Salam Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nur Posted August 1, 2004 Og Girl I read every word you wrote, Please give me a single example from any Arabic literature that assigns SAMAD to a human, since you claim that SAMAD is a normal word used to describe humans, I am anxious to read your words. Nur Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OG_Girl Posted August 1, 2004 Nur, since you are very selective and like to reply and pick whatever you choice here, I will high light and explain what I exactly meant: The word sovereignty in Arabic is NOT SAMAD – remember you are not only talking to someone who Arabic is her Mother tongue but also studied the language—so it rather simply means, ‘Governor, Leadership, King, Empire, etc. . I said word : sovereignty Doesn't mean "Samad" only have a lot of means so far I checked 5 different English/Arabic dictionars ,One of them is English-Arabic (Exford), Almowred.. and others as well, As Arabic language so rich one word can have a lot of meaning as well hidden meaning too . That was what was my arguiment. SAMAD, I meant was the one is 9amad with saad!and was just example about the names of Al-jalallah can be used to describe people as well, ofcouse doesn't come close as we mean Allah. Are you trying here to just high ligh and look so hard to look any errors to argue in this beautiful Artical our brother Kowneyn posted so we can be Kafrs? Are we here to prove we are moslims to you? As a lot of people reply to you but chose to not bother to reply HOW YOU CAN SAY KUFER to some one saying I am a Moslim?!!!!! Are you here judging what is inside our hearts? do you know what we hidding or any other Shia or Sunnah? As usually you wont come out and say i made mistake as such and such but you will keep replying what you want and ignore what you want. I decided to not post but you addressed me personaly, so I had to reply to you. Salam Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Haddad Posted August 1, 2004 Originally posted by Nur: Haddad The Shia believe the imaams to be infallible like prophets that is why they refer to them as Aleyhi Salaam, like prophets. Shukran for the clarification. I am sure the Shia are dead wrong in that belief. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sahal Posted August 1, 2004 To make clear the word ZAMAD is only used by ALLAH'S name and character, however the same name (not the same meaning) is used by the people such as ZUMUUD which means FIRM STANDING, Without wavering or shaking for example we can say "ZUMUUDA SHHCBA FALSTIIN" which means the resistence or firm standing of palestinian people, or NAXNU ZAAMIDUUN = we stand firm etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mutakalim Posted August 1, 2004 Haddad: Read the following story. To have an infallible imam is necessary for the survival of islam in its pristine form. Also, read my thread on the Necessity of Shiism as I have adequately answered all the common objections. 'O scholar, I am a stranger here; will you permit me to ask a question?' He replied that I might, so I asked him: 'Do you have eyes?' 'Amr responded: 'Young man, what kind of a question is this? Why ask about something you can see to be true?' But I persisted, asking him to answer my question. He consented, so I repeated the question. When he answered in the affirmative, I next asked him; 'What do you do with eyes?' 'I see colors and people.' Then I asked; 'Do you have a nose?' 'Yes.' 'What do you do with your nose?' 'I smell things.' 'Do you have a mouth?' 'Yes.' 'What do you do with it?' 'I taste the food that I eat.' 'Do you have ears?' 'Yes.' 'What do you with them?' 'I hear sounds.' "'Now, do you have a heart?' 'Yes.' 'What do you do with it?' 'My heart is an instrument of weighing and measuring; by means of it I assess the truth or falsehood of whatever knowledge comes to my senses and limbs.' "Then I asked: 'Can any limb or member dispense with the heart (qalb)?' "'No.' "'Even if all limbs and members are completely healthy?' "'Young man, whenever any bodily sense is mistaken in its perceptions or doubts their accuracy, it has recourse to the heart in order to resolve its doubts and gain some measure of confidence and certainty.' "'So the role of the heart with respect to the members and limbs is, in accordance with divine command, to remove error, confusion, and bewilderment?' "'Yes.' "'So the existence of the heart in man is a necessity without which his members and limbs lose their sense of direction?' "'Yes.' "'O Abu Marwan, God has not left your senses and limbs without a guide to rectify their errors and doubts. Is it then possible that He should leave human society, despite all the dissension and ignorance that beset it, to its own devices, without any leader to guide it? A fitting leader who will remove all confusion and error?' With Salaams PK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mutakalim Posted August 1, 2004 As the arab poet prounounced: wa qaaluu rasuulullaahi makhtaara bacdahu imaaman wa laakinnaa lianfusinaa ikhtarnaa wa laakinnanaa ikhtarnaa alladii ikhtaara rabbunaa lanaa yowma khamin ma ictadaynaa walaa xilnaa sayajmacunaa yowma al-qiyaamati rabbunaa fatujzawna maa qultum wa nujzii al-ladii qulnaa hadamtum bi aydiikum qawaacida diinikum wa diinin calaa qayr al-qawaacida la yubnaa wa naxnu calaa nuurin min allahi waadixun fayaa rabbi zidnaa minka nuuran wa thabbitnaa With Salaams PK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maymuunah Posted August 1, 2004 calyhi salam? I got the same notion as haddad. may allah save as all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
