Religious pretenders start massive looting in Jowhar!

[Meiji]

Zeylac,

 

Insha Allah. we will discuss another time in another thread your view on the whole of Somalia.

 

So far we are familiar with your rants against the warlords in Mogadishu and everything related to Southern Somalia. The next step is to understand your view concerning the regionalist sentiments in Northern Somalia.

 

As for your comment ''this is Somalia'', why did Alshabab resort to looting in Jowhar and not in Baidoba, Kismanyo and Merca?

 

Can you also explain that?

[Fabregas]

^^ why don't you tell us. I mean why do you think they did it and in the other cities?

[Meiji]

I would like to hear the explanation by those staunch supporters.

 

Clearly something is not right.

[Fabregas]

^^ Well I wouldn't really describe myself as staunch of supporter of Alshabab, but that is another issue for another day. As for the issue at hand, sxb, not everything in life requires philosophical and cadan-like rhetorical analysis. One does not need grand political philosphies to work out what happened. Alshabab recruits from Somalia, a war torn country, wherein many of the youth could be ex militia members or have become accustomed to looting and other types of related violence. So their youths went to a city and slightly got out of hand. What's the big deal? This happens even in the armies of the most civilized and advanced countries. What matters is that is this a policy or action which is given from above? Is Alshabab a group which tolerates these activies and encourages it like their rival warlords?Does the fact that some youths looted UN equipment mean that Alshabab is suddenly not a religous movement? You probably know the answer= NO, as you say this does not happen in the other cities which they control. But, perhaps,You just like analysing little issues.

:confused:

 

ps. ok, now, can you explain to us why they did it one city and not the others? Come one, ya professor, i thought you had all the answers.

[Meiji]

Al-Zeylaci,

 

Nice explanation.

 

My explanation for their actions is not relevant since I do not support them.

 

The fact that it had happened is already enough for me to condemn them and bring forth their ugly side to the public.

 

Anyways, your explanatory skills are very much needed in this thread

[bint hamid]

Originally posted by General Duke:

Somalia: Al Shabaab fighters raid UN offices, confiscate equipment

19 May 19, 2009 - 5:19:38 PM

 

No one was hurt during the raids and Al Shabaab commanders did nothing to stop the raids, locals said.

so if no one was hurt then why is everybody complaining? where was the UN when these same groups of people were looting somali waters and depriving the somali people of their livelihood? and now they want to complain that some body stole there fax machine? whatever

[Cara.]

Originally posted by Al Zeylaci:

^^ Well I wouldn't really describe myself as staunch of supporter of Alshabab, but that is another issue for another day. As for the issue at hand, sxb, not everything in life requires philosophical and cadan-like rhetorical analysis. One does not need grand political philosphies to work out what happened. Alshabab recruits from Somalia, a war torn country, wherein many of the youth could be ex militia members or have become accustomed to looting and other types of related violence. So their youths went to a city and slightly got out of hand. What's the big deal? This happens even in the armies of the most civilized and advanced countries. What matters is that is this a policy or action which is given from above? Is Alshabab a group which tolerates these activies and encourages it like their rival warlords?Does the fact that some youths looted UN equipment mean that Alshabab is suddenly not a religous movement? You probably know the answer= NO, as you say this does not happen in the other cities which they control. But, perhaps,You just like analysing little issues.

:confused:

The problem is that Al-shabab IS a religious movement that wants to legislate morality. Their powerful claim is that of reformation of character and society. Their militia have presumably sworn to live by the very same code they will impose on the people. If the most ardent supporters of Al-shabab, the very youth who are willing to die and kill for the movement, have failed to up-hold the most basic of tenets, how can the rest of society be likewise reformed? Saying that the commanders don't approve means nothing, because the seed is planted: if the true believers who are fighting on the streets are stealing, what crimes are the commanders committing?

 

In addition, Al-shabab makes no distinction between the militia sent to secure a town, and the enforcers of the laws they hope to implement. These same youth will be running around chastising women for not wearing proper attire, and arresting others for committing theft or for watching inappropriate films or for littering. In a religious movement, the militia is the army, the police, the public relations firm. Any failure of theirs reflects on the religious movement.

 

In contrast, a modern army does NOT have a similar pressure because the soldiers in a modern army are men who may enlist for money, or fame, or to travel, or for simple bloodlust. They don't actually have to do anything but follow orders and kill on demand. They don't even have to believe that their superiors are right, or that their mission is meaningful or just. They live by a code different than that of a city they are occupying, and there's no handy parallel between them and the populace. If they commit a crime, it's merely a problem of army discipline.

[Kashafa]

^^ You make some good points, Cara, but my view still remains: Shit happens. Deal with it. If this incident is true, the UN will be compensated for their losses. End of story.

 

If ur tryna politicize this, as the defeated nomads of SOL are doing, let me tell you that Somalia is facing bigger issues than petty pot-shots taken at the men who are liberating it as we speak. The fact of the matter is these men do in fact hold themselves to a higher standard, which is I guess what gets your goat and makes you pounce on this piece of news like "AHA!!! I have found ONE inconsistency !!!!"

 

I do not have to remind you of the Shabaab soldier who mistakenly killed a civilian. The family of the victim were given a choice: blood money or qisaas. They chose qisaas. Qisaas was carried out. Case closed. No fanfare. No baqbaqlayn. No hantatac. Justice shabaabi style.

 

Far cry from your civilized armies that freely rape, murder, and pillage in the name of spreading democracy and then can enjoy court cases that take 40 years of appeals and counter-appeals and are finally dismissed because the statute of limitations has expired.

 

Try harder, Cara. This petty potshot at Al-Shabaab just doesn't cut it.

[wacdaraha_aduunka]

UNICEF Condemns Looting of Life-Saving Humanitarian Supplies in Jowhar :

 

Statement by Christian Balslev- Olesen, UNICEF Representative to Somalia

 

 

Wednesday, May 20, 2009

 

NAIROBI, 20 May 2009 : UNICEF strongly condemns the looting and destruction of humanitarian supplies and its facilities in Jowhar by militiamen and is deeply distressed by the impact this will have on UNICEF’s programmes supporting the children and women of Somalia, said Christian Balslev- Olesen, UNICEF Representative to Somalia, in a statement today.

 

After Al Shabaab took over control of Jowhar town – located 90 kilometers north of Mogadishu - on 17th May 2009, reports were received of militiamen raiding UNICEF’s compound and undertaking large scale looting and destruction of humanitarian supplies, assets and equipments.

 

The cold chain (vaccine storage) equipment has been affected, destroying thousands of doses of measles, polio and other vaccines that were meant to prevent serious diseases among Somali children. Supplies of food for the prevention and treatment of acute malnutrition among children were also looted.

 

The loss and damage of crucial supplies for children and women and the break in the supply chain will have an enormous impact on UNICEF’s overall programmes as Jowhar is the main hub for the provision of services and supplies to the whole of the Central and Southern regions of Somalia.

 

“Our programmes, including provision of immunization against preventable diseases like measles and polio, operation of feeding centres for acutely malnourished children, implementation of Child Health Days Campaign, as well as provision of safe drinking water will be severely hampered, putting the lives of vulnerable children and their communities at risk.”

 

Over 50,000 severely malnourished children who are in life-threatening conditions, in addition to over 85,000 moderately malnourished children, will be affected by the break in nutritional and medical supplies. This incident will disrupt the implementation of the second round of the Child Health Days Campaign targeting to reach over 1.2 million under-five children and 840,000 women with a high-impact life-saving health and nutritional package.

 

“These malicious acts of looting and vandalism that pose a serious threat to the lives and welfare of Somali children must stop,” said Balslev-Olesen. “UNICEF urges all parties involved to have children’s well-being at heart. Humanitarian operations must not be impeded.”

 

 

For more information please contact:

- Iman Morooka, Communication Officer, UNICEF Somalia, Email: imorooka@unicef.org, Mobile: +254 714 606 733

 

- Robert Kihara, Communication Officer, UNICEF Somalia, Email: rkihara@unicef.org, Mobile: +254 722 206 883

 

Source: UNICEF, May 20, 2009

 

Source

[Meiji]

Kashafa,

 

Cara made very valid points and all you have to say is: ''my view still remains: Shit happens. Deal with it.''.

 

 

Their powerful claim is that of reformation of character and society. Their militia have presumably sworn to live by the very same code they will impose on the people. If the most ardent supporters of Al-shabab, the very youth who are willing to die and kill for the movement, have failed to up-hold the most basic of tenets, how can the rest of society be likewise reformed? Saying that the commanders don't approve means nothing, because the seed is planted: if the true believers who are fighting on the streets are stealing, what crimes are the commanders committing?

Well said.

[Kashafa]

d/p

[xiinfaniin]

Waryee waad khalkhashee...i see you removed your post.

 

Sherban is not in this thread yaa kashafa

[Kashafa]

^^ double-posted, abti, was responding to Sherban in the other thread. Aniga iyo khal-khal kala dheer laakin

[Kashafa]

Meeji,

 

I agree, Cara made some excellent anthropological observations, observations that I would appreciate in any other time but this: A time of war. Shit happens in war. Deal with it.

 

And I guess you conveniently skipped over this part of my post:

I do not have to remind you of the Shabaab soldier who mistakenly killed a civilian. The family of the victim were given a choice: blood money or qisaas. They chose qisaas. Qisaas was carried out. Case closed. No fanfare. No baqbaqlayn. No hantatac. Justice shabaabi style.

This sworn dedication to justice is why Al-Shabaab will win.(inshallah)

 

And why all the other forces arrayed against them will lose.(inshallah)

[Libaax-Sankataabte]

Let us be fair for once and call spades a spade. Out of all the factions fighting in Somalia, Al-Shabaab is the least likely one to raid for riches. The key term here is "least likely" and I say that as a contrast to other groups because no matter what faction, all these feuding factions are always going to have the undisciplined, out of control minority within them.

 

This unpleasant incident, if true, could have also been part of a calculated effort to harm the UN of which its presence is widely viewed by the Mujahedeens as the embodiment of all that is unwell with the society.