Armstrong Posted October 7, 2003 Please dont talk about the religion if you have no knowledge of what you are stating. Imaam Bukhaari was quoted to say: "Baabun cilm qabla qawlii wa camal" That "Knowledge Preceeds Action or Sayings." Cause whomever misguides anyone not only is he misguided but he misguides others. So think before one annotates a single word of text for your own sake and the sake of poor folks who just come to Muslim forum for little bit of light so plz light some candles and dont curse the dark :eek: Mujahid over and out ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mujahida Posted October 7, 2003 Salam Modesty well said sis Muslim women's dress (Hijab) as stipulated by the Shari'ah (Divine Law) of Islam. The term Hijab, includes not only dress and covering the body, but methods of behavior before members of the same and/or opposite sex, promoting privacy for females and prohibiting loose intermingling between males and females, and thereby encouraging modesty, decency, chastity and above all, respect and worship of Allah. Allah Ta'ala says: "And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts from sin and not show of their adornment except only that which is apparent, and draw their headcovers over their necks and bosoms and not reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women (i.e., their sisters in Islam), or their female slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants free of physical desires, or small children who have no sense of women's nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah altogether, O you Believers, in order that you may attain success.[An-Nur, 24:31] O Prophet, Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their outer garments about themselves (when they go out). That is better so that they may be recognised and not molested. And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. [Al-Ahzaab, 33:59] Those above paragraph are the Quraan and the Islamic law. If you dislike it then it's between you and your ALLAH but don't say that Hijab is not wajib because it really is. FiamanaAllah Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Waaq Posted October 7, 2003 What strikes me is the swiftness of those to attack the premise of the article. Islam is not about symbols, but about faith, belief, and the strength to be a good person. Fundamentally, we all have our own relationship with Allah, it is he who will judge us. I feel that modesty is the ultimate guiding principle, the hijab per se does not satisfy these requirements as modesty itself extends beyond the physical into our hearts. It hurts me to see muslims attacking muslims over symbols. One who covers from head to toe is not by definition a good muslim, as they might not live the rest of their lives in an appropriate matter. However, it is often these very people who are so quick to judge, attack, and even degrade others for seeming lack of propriety. It is my belief that is venhemous judgement and hating is a direct result of their own insecurity. The hijab will not cover what is in the heart. What is in the heart and soul is what allah will judge us by. However, allah has given us a guide that certain things are compulsory. For example during the act of prayer. These must be adhered to within the context of the act. It pains me when I see parents raising there kids to be ignorant, unthinking beings. These kids then grow to be ignorant adults uncapable of their own analysis, but dependent. Dependent on who? Perhaps the conservative Saudi who will whisper their vision of Islam. I encourage all to exercise their free thought, Allah has provided the guide, and it is our duty to study it. Not everything is haram. I have travelled to many muslim countries. I find what I believe to be the best muslims in those countries moderate and open in their thinking. Not quick to judge, but ultimately worried about their own relationship to allah. Countries who teach the quran as a book to be studied and understood, not just memorized. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rudy-Diiriye Posted October 8, 2003 Originally posted by Waaq: What strikes me is the swiftness of those to attack the premise of the article. Islam is not about symbols, but about faith, belief, and the strength to be a good person. Fundamentally, we all have our own relationship with Allah, it is he who will judge us. I feel that modesty is the ultimate guiding principle, the hijab per se does not satisfy these requirements as modesty itself extends beyond the physical into our hearts.] ------------------------------------------- could not said it better, we all know, its not the clolthes that make a person but the whats inside the person! bravo waaq! i took the time to do my research and got my info i posted from Al Azhar University web site. AND NOT FROM A BMW DRIVING WAHAABI WANABEE SHIEKH WHO IS SCOUTING THE NEIGHBORHOOD FOR HIS NEXT WIFE WHILE HE SAYS ASTA LA VISTA TO THE OLDER 1 WHO by NOW HAS 6 SIX KIDS 4 HIM! now if that is not a crime, then the sky must green to yall! :confused: ------------------------------------------------ It hurts me to see muslims attacking muslims over symbols. One who covers from head to toe is not by definition a good muslim, as they might not live the rest of their lives in an appropriate matter. However, it is often these very people who are so quick to judge, attack, and even degrade others for seeming lack of propriety. It is my belief that is venhemous judgement and hating is a direct result of their own insecurity. The hijab will not cover what is in the heart. What is in the heart and soul is what allah will judge us by. However, allah has given us a guide that certain things are compulsory. For example during the act of prayer. These must be adhered to within the context of the act. It pains me when I see parents raising there kids to be ignorant, unthinking beings. These kids then grow to be ignorant adults uncapable of their own analysis, but dependent. Dependent on who? Perhaps the conservative Saudi who will whisper their vision of Islam. I encourage all to exercise their free thought, Allah has provided the guide, and it is our duty to study it. Not everything is haram. I have travelled to many muslim countries. I find what I believe to be the best muslims in those countries moderate and open in their thinking. Not quick to judge, but ultimately worried about their own relationship to allah. Countries who teach the quran as a book to be studied and understood, not just memorized. Please we all adults, dont just urge with something passed down for dugusy, do your home work, and research the truth! instead of just dizzing! basically show us (proof) n not a here say!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conscious Manipulation Posted October 8, 2003 salaam, Who ever wrote this article can scream hijab is not fard until the cows come home but at the end of the day it won't change anything. Hijab is fard in Islam, it has always been and it will always be. Somealien I agree hijab should not be "forced" on any adult woman. Like, sister Raxmah said, the hijab is just a peice of cloth, there's so much more to being a hijabi than just wearing a scarf. I'd just also liked to point out there's not a single country (no, not even saudi)where Islamic law is implemented fully. Originally posted by Opinionated: Somealien, Put bluntly, men want to control women and oppress them. They want them covered, hidden, and imprisoned in their homes. Their "laws" are tailored towards men. They don't allow people the freedom to practice the deen as Allah (s.a.w) said. Just look at every country who installed a shari'a law..and tell me this is not so. Look at the Saudis who don't allow women to drive! If anyone here disagrees with these, please tell me how this is not so! While the saudi men might use Islam to oppress their women by keeping them locked up, Westren men oppress their women in the name of "freedom" and "equality" by objectifying them and using them to sell anything from beer to chocolate bar. Oppression and injustice will be prevail everywhere until Islamic shariah is implemented for it is the only source of justice on earth. salaam Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
inan yaban Posted October 8, 2003 First of all I wanna thank Rudy for raising a very good topic to discuss, it is certainly a topic that concerns me and took my full attention and I think it concerns many others, I do believe Islam encourage us as followers to listen to each other and discuss things or matters even if we don’t agree with each other, that is the whole point of being open minded or receiving instead of only copying things from others. Altough I understand there is things that is not subject for dispute like the five pillars of Islam which are: 1. Witness of faith (Shahadah) 2. Prayers (Salat) 3. Charity (Zakat) 4. Fasting (Saum) 5. The pilgrimage (Hajj) Because this is what Islam is built on, but it was absolutely wrong for many to attack Rudy or others points of views on other topics like this topic. Honestly at first I did not think of what I’m reading but when I visited the Al-azhar web, I said to my self this really needs my second look, now I’m not saying I do agree with what was said yet but definitely I want to know more. All my life I understood that hijab is obligatory for every mature Muslim women, I was raised in the Arabian gulf country and hijab was never a hard thing to do until I came to the USA, it is really a daily struggle to wear hijab here, I mean in every where I go it doesn’t matter where I am, at work or even pumping gas or buying groceries, it is simply not easy, for simple example my coworkers told me at first when I started my job that some of them kept distance from me coz they were scared of me now that they know me well, they enjoy talking to me, and they feel free to discuss things with me, I can understand why they felt that way, and that is why I believe people give you respect according to how you represent your self to them and good behavior or being good should first come from the heart. A piece of cloth will not make you a good Muslim or a good human. I decided to wear hijab for one strong reason only and it is to obey Allah only, not for arab man or to satisfy a tradition, in reality I never went back to see the real verses which says that Muslim women’s have to wear hijab in the Quran, coz simply I never dispute it , untill now and that is my fault but from know and on I’m planning to go back to the correct source (Quran) and educate my self. I simply don’t care what people will think of me but I want to know what was writing in Quran about the hijab and act accordingly, I encourge every one else to do so, don’t worry about others do what your mind tells you is right to do. After all let us all please be open-minded here and don’t just attack each other for the hell of it. Inan yabaan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuCkY Posted October 8, 2003 ORIGINALLY POSTED BY MODESTY: Hijab is obligatory, whether you like it or not. You don't have to wear it ,but point blank its wajib. The hijab is not a sign of oppression, it is a sign of obedience to Allah. The Quran does say that a women should be veiled, and that non-mahram men and women should be apart, except on professional talks.And the purpose of the veil is for one because ALLAH said so, and two because a woman should be appreciated for her mind,than her figure and face, and three it is a great sign of dacwah. Rudy- I hope to have clarified that for you brother.Plus, hijab is a clothe, it doesn't do its job unless the wearer has the right behaviour. I CouLdnt Have Said It Better MyseLf. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coloow Posted October 8, 2003 Please dont talk about the religion if you have no knowledge of what you are stating. If people had equal knowledge about the complex world, or religion, questions could never be raised. Why can't we talk about religion? Isn't the whole idea of talking (questionin) to gain knowledge? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rudy-Diiriye Posted October 8, 2003 lucky! so u r a zorro!lol!! [The Quran does say that a women should be veiled, and that non-mahram men and women should be apart, except on professional talks] i did my research so u folks, i need to see your proof! all yall claiming holier than thou! open you koran and share with us where it stays that hijab is mandatory! otherwise! i we be chasing tails! and the imaam u quote better be from an ivy league islamic university and not a street preacher!!!!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bilan Posted October 8, 2003 salam rudy i do not know why you keep asking the same question, even after so many people gave you the verse and here it is, and i hope people will not try to twist its meaning : Allah Ta'ala says: "And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts from sin and not show of their adornment except only that which is apparent, and draw their headcovers over their necks and bosoms and not reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women (i.e., their sisters in Islam), or their female slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants free of physical desires, or small children who have no sense of women's nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah altogether, O you Believers, in order that you may attain success.[An-Nur, 24:31] Prophet, Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their outer garments about themselves (when they go out). That is better so that they may be recognised and not molested. And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. [Al-Ahzaab, 33:59] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SAGAL Posted October 8, 2003 All I have to say is, if Hijab was not compulsary, I wouldn't be wearing it....for those of you who agree that hijab is out of choice, than you guys have been brainwashed by the western society...if hijab is a choice, than why do you wear it at the mosque? you don't see one girl with out a hijab. The quran does state that women should wear hijab...so my sisters, I know its hard wearing hijab, especially in the western society BUT we will have the last laugh on judgement day...so be happy and represent your religion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xafsa Posted October 8, 2003 Originally posted by Gediid: One of the greatest threats facing muslims today is the deliberate misinterpretation of the Quran and Sunnah by so called "Islamic scholars in the west" to deliberately influence the younger generation of muslims raised in the west.This article is proof of such grand malfeasance.It is obligatory for women to cover themselves out in the open and in front of men.To say otherwise is simply going against Islamic teachings.What you see today in the west are muslims who are trying hard to blend into the mainstream Western culture and the only obstacle they have is the holy Quran.By misintrepreting it they are trying to rationalize their actions.Islam is a religion not tailored for one specific segment of society but rather for all of mankind and to wantonly pick parts of it while shunning other parts is tantamount to blashphemy. My thoughts exactly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuCkY Posted October 8, 2003 lucky! so u r a zorro!lol!! Rudy expLain yourseLf because i dont foLLow. [The Quran does say that a women should be veiled, and that non-mahram men and women should be apart, except on professional talks] i did my research so u folks, i need to see your proof! all yall claiming holier than thou! open you koran and share with us where it stays that hijab is mandatory! otherwise! i we be chasing tails! and the imaam u quote better be from an ivy league islamic university and not a street preacher!!!!!!!!!! RUdy are you for reaL huh?I suggest you read Lateafha's post---that wiLL answer your question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Armstrong Posted October 8, 2003 Statement was made on 07/10/03 that read: Please dont talk about the religion if you have no knowledge of what you are stating. Subsequently, a nomad replied on 08/10/03 what reads: If people had equal knowledge about the complex world, or religion, questions could never be raised. In addition, the nomad comments: Why can't we talk about religion? Isn't the whole idea of talking (questionin) to gain knowledge? On 08/10/03 the reply in more words than one is: The process of writing about the diin without knowledge in retrospect to asking questions are two different issues dont you think?? The two doesn't appear to go hand-in-hand mate. Questioning appears to be a function of learning. Whereas speaking or writing without knowledge is rather a vulgar characteristic and best avoided. Once again its re-iterated let us not speak or write without knowledge. Mujahid over and out ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuCkY Posted October 8, 2003 Mujahid some peopLe either cant read and comprehend or just dont want to.Its reaLLy pathetic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites