Somali Ethiopian: The present dynamics

[Somali_Friend]

Paragon,

Lets leave aside for who should pitty who for this or that.

Shouldn't you instead do some reading about the Walwal Conference and its implications for where we all are now, rather than blaming british or french?

Shouldn't we all start identifying our weakness in being tools of britain, italy, france, ottomans or egypt, rather than making them the reason for our misfortunes.

Even if we are not strong enough to blame ourselves, shouldn't we start accepting that the egyptians or the british have outsmarted and defeated us against our own interest?

 

Never underestimate yourself. You can get the chinese tomorrow and play them against the british in a heart bit. You have all the ingredients to be able to do so.

As long as we are materially poor and backward, those who are higher in the ladder of development will play us against ourselves. Thats the rule of the game in every continent.

I don't for a minute think that britain was happy to go to iraq or Canada was happy to go to Afghanstan, but big brother wanted it.

I don't think Saudi Arabia wanted to go as far as condemning HizbAllah, but big brother wanted it and the biggest clerics of saudi arabia went on their microphones and media condemning HizbAllah.

[Paragon]

^^SF, I don't think the appeal to adapt an inward-looking approach to understand our problems washes with me right now. I would even go as far as suggesting that Ethiopia's (historical) tendency to beg foreigners has cost me a large chuck of my land. Now don't tell me we shouldn't blame the British and the French for my problems because it is their direct support for Abyssinia that is the cause of all my problems. If it was abyssinia only, Addis Abbaba would today have spoken perfect Somali!

 

That said, since you have mentioned the Wal Incident, I wouldn't mind, one bit, to discuss that subject with you at length. I have original documents and articles that are useful to constructive debate. I wouldn't mind if you elucidate your reference to the Wal Incident, what is your point exactly?

[Ahmed_Guree]

^^^ 'SF'

You should consider the rights of others past Makele before you come to preach in this forum.

 

You are preaching water and drinking wine

What an irony.

[Somali_Friend]

Lieutenant Xalane,

 

I think the best thing to do for our discussion is have a common understanding on what freedom is and how you or I think it applies to the situation.

Freedom is a relative term. Freedom to the Americans meant that they want to elect their own government, don't want their taxes to go to the british empire, but it never meant their ability to speak some other language (although it meant to some that wanted german), protect a culture ..etc.

Freedom to black Americans meant not to be bought and sold like goods at the time.

I have no doubt, that what you said about people wanting to do something is true. If one struggles hard enough, smart enough and if need be long enough he can get what he wanted. That I fully agree.

Let alone poor and backward ethiopia, even empires that seemed where the sun never set had to give up peoples or lands that they held by trickery or war. On that I will not and cannot argue against your point.

 

But every given theory has to be applied to reality and every corner of the world has its own peculiar characteristics. If you are one of the somalis who believe that the somali ethiopian became ethiopian due to british machinations, I say, you are wrong. No other empire wanted to have greater somalia than the british empire. For their own interest, yes of course, but if your interest and someones interest intersect or meet, what could be better. It did not happen not even for ethiopia or egypt that were almost colonies of britain themselves. Ethiopia was liberated enemy territory as classified by the british and so was egypt.

 

Eritrea has same historical background and same process as Somaliland. Worst yet for eritrea, the Afar has no interest in being divided into a third country as if djibuti and ethiopia were not enough.

If you and I are alive when their dictator Mr. Isayas goes it will be mini-somalia and worst. Eritrea has nine different peoples from very different heritage, anscestry and bloodlines. The tigrigna speakers that rule it now and make eritrea synonimous with themselves are only 40% of the population at most.

 

Freedom is relative. Eritrean freedom has become freedom for the few in less than two decades. For many it has become slavery already. If ethiopia was to engage in tit for tat support of eritrean opposition it practically would be the easiest regime to overthrow.

Ethiopia is avoiding this old practice with sudan, eritrea, somalia. Sudan is holding its end of the bargain, so ethiopia and sudan have a well managed relations. They both realize they live in glass houses.

 

Freedom for somali ethiopian has political, cultural, economic and social aspects and definitions.

Political is 1. Be an independednt country 2. join somalia republic 3. be autonomous part of ethiopia. Lets not argue on numbers, but all these objectives have support.

culturally it means that he should speak and use his language, practice his heritage and tradition. This was impossible to do until a decade ago, but now there is nothing to stop him except poverty.

 

The example of Somaliland, I would say, that whatever you folks end up doing, try to do it peacefully or put best effort to do it peacefully.

 

countries are temporary, so are flags and anthems. Borders will be drawn and redrawn to the needs of the times political or economic, but the people should have the minimum of violent changes as possible.

 

Its the definition of freedom in terms of current conditions that you and I have different understanding.

 

BTW development did not stop the Scottish re-establishing their state and are becoming more and more autonomous and almost independant by the day, centuries after they had become just a district or lesser.

I have no disagreement with your basic belief that people will get what they fight for or are prepared to fight for, one way or another.

[General Duke]

^^^Nicely put, keep them coming mate..

[Ahmed_Guree]

Freedom for somali ethiopian has political,

cultural, economic and social aspects and definitions.

Political is 1. Be an independednt country 2. join somalia republic 3. be autonomous part of ethiopia. Lets not argue on numbers, but all these objectives have support.

Listen being independnt or autonomous is still a big blow to you.

it wouldn make much difference for Tigres Coz if independent then each respective countries would be given a different status regarding Aid.

The greatest set back is when they are federal based hence WB ,IMF,EU would consider them as a unit country hence Aid of a given amount would be allocated for developmental projects hence their would be competition for the scarce money.

As for an Ideal federalism Tigres woulndt lay hands on the much of the Money.

While for a Tigre based Federalism money allocated for various regions would be sapped into enriching the fat cats of the Tigre regime and to develope the unresourceful Tigray region.

Hence this is an ideal parasitism.

culturally it means that he should speak and use his language, practice his heritage and tradition. This was impossible to do until a decade ago, but now there is nothing to stop him except poverty.

Still that is bullshit as it hampers alot and amharic is used in various governmental institutions as well as academic institution this would bar most of the Students from going to highschool or Uni.

 

As for poverty it should be Equated to Habeshas

they drain the countries resources and would shamelessly beg for aid while subjugating the indeginous whose land is endowed emense scale of resources.

[Paragon]

ONE POINT: Meles' war on Somalia is a Woyane war, and not a war from all other Ethiopians. That should be kept in mind.

[Somali_Friend]

Ahmed_Guree,

Unless you are an ethiopian imposter appearing as somali, please try to recognize these facts:

 

The somali ethiopian is big enough to say what he wants and strong enough to go and get what he wants.

 

The interests of the somali ethiopian can be defined in and of itself without constantly transposing it to Tigray, Amara, Afar, Oromo or others.

 

The somali ethiopian is not waiting for IndCadde to be the "Immam" of nagash or for colonel Aweye to be the Ayatollah spreme of east africa.

 

Please stick to whats being discussed as much as you can. Tigray or no Tigray, the somali ethiopian will be neighbor to Afar, Oromo, Hareri ...and so on. Actually somalia or no somalia, ethiopia or no ethiopia, that remains a fact of life.

 

BTW. What are you and your likes afraid of the somali ethiopian? Is it the possibility that the somali ethiopian will ignore colonel Tahir Aweye at best and fight against him at worst for you and your ilk. What will come will come and very soon, because colonel aweye doesn't have time, he either has to govern or create constant war and ignore governing using wars as excuse.

He cannot afford to stay one day without mentioning ethiopia. Otherwise people in Mugadishu will go, eh ya shiek we need a government here, we also need to know how we work with other states to reconstitute our country...what do you say shiek.

[Ahmed_Guree]

Listen u r busted.

so stop the crap you want to invade loot,kill a country and impose on them the same system or worse than in Ethio.

the TNG is a an association of Warlords.

So cut the crap of Indhacadhe if he is kicked out by ICU you will humbly embrace him.

 

so in essence this unpaid & underpaid poor destitute, starving macenaries from Ethio are the only hope To 'liberate' Somalia.

 

think twiceThis are dangerous savages ready to be unleash terror that will plunder loot rape and commit human crimes in somalia

No civilian is safe.

The AK is the only solace i.e Die honourably.

[NASSIR]

There is no doubt that Somalis in Ethiopia are divided on this issue, one side with Ethiopian government and another with their brethrens in Somalia.

[Somali_Friend]

Ahmed_Guree,

The thread is about somali state ethiopia in case you need a reminder. If you have nothing to say on that, I understand, but please respect that there are threads and is quite easy to start one for diatribes of other subjects.

 

I can only remind you that Meles was born in the 50s, where as these issues are more than a century old.

If you heard the name Tigray for the first time from Shiek Aweye in his Al-Ithad command of arab fighters, that were handed to their birth or last citizenship countries, keep on, but the somali will outlive any border, flag, anthem even countries that are here today. I prefer to look at issues from that angle than with every leader or group that comes and goes.

[Ahmed_Guree]

Ahmed_Guree,

The thread is about somali state ethiopia in case you need a reminder. If you have nothing to say on that, I understand, but please respect that there are threads and is quite easy to start one for diatribes of other subjects.

this is a tip of the ice berg of the events in that region

http://www.wardheernews.com/Articles_06/August_06/SRSE_Hagmann.pdf

can only remind you that Meles was born in the 50s, where as these issues are more than a century old.

If you heard the name Tigray for the first time from Shiek Aweye in his Al-Ithad command of arab fighters, that were handed to their birth or last citizenship countries, keep on, but the somali will outlive any border, flag, anthem even countries that are here today. I prefer to look at issues from that angle than with every leader or group that comes and goes.

Listen Since your signature is of Galloway

This is his famous

Saying 'One mans hero is another mans Terrorist'

 

Meles is a Hero to the Tigray while a vilian and a terrorist to Ethiopians,Somalis and Eritreans.

 

Aweys is a Terrorist to Tigray aka Woyane but a heroe to his folks.

[Captain Xalane]

''countries are temporary, so are flags and anthems. Borders will be drawn and redrawn to the needs of the times political or economic, but the people should have the minimum of violent changes as possible. ''

 

I concurr.

 

Its the definition of freedom in terms of current conditions that you and I have different understanding.

True.But the kind of freedom that we are talking about can only be well put by a somalian living in the occupied lands.To me ,freedom means civil liberty as opposed to subjection to an arbitrary or despotic government,but to u it might mean something else,freedom got many definitions or many ways to go about it.

 

I have no disagreement with your basic belief that people will get what they fight for or are prepared to fight for, one way or another.

Indeed.So long as they have the will and are eager,some how,they will reach their end,thats their freedom ,though the means to this end is where i think u and i differ.All the same,u have argued patiently and well , i salute u.

[Somali_Friend]

Lieutenant Xalane,

The respect is mutual and thank you for your generous comments.

 

Duulye,

Thank you for making me Lieutenant Xalane, evn on the internet. There were more than a few occasions whre I wished I had his precision, brevity and to the point, matter of factly statements.

 

You amy also have noticed, if you are into reading the contents that I don't comment or discuss military matters. I limit myself into reading them and understanding.

 

But thank you none the less.