Let's Talk About Genocide

[Valenteenah.]

Those are heart-wrenching pictures. I wont be able to sleep tonight. May Allah have mercy on our people. All of them.

 

In the last two decades, millions of Somalis suffered. I don't believe the suffering of any particular group can be compared to another, so please let us not go there. Fa'ido inoogu jirta in farta la isku taago ayaa iska yar.

 

Justice for one and all.

[Saxardiid]

Originally posted by Spadez:

The reason you and I dissagree is not one based on ideology, say with Horn Afrique, Soyaal, and Che however misguided would like to see Somaliland as an integral part of the Union, because they believe in Pan-Somalia as a principle. With them, a debate can be had on principles and ideas. You can't debate with some one who sees things through tribal lines.

are u ok sxb, where did i say somaliland should be part of pan somali or stay the union. maybe you have been reading wrong posts. i belief pan somali or somaliwayn only when people willingly come together and united for the porpose of facing the world in united way. and no circustanses did i suggest that somaliland forced back to the union.

 

this is what i said in other thread so read before you have ago with me.

the question is not who killed whom or the justification for somaliland's breakaway but its question of choice. i belief somalinimo or somaliwayn only where people want to leave by their choice not force or intidation. somaliland people say in a loud and clear THEY DON'T WANT TO BE PART OF UNITED SOMALIA so is it Abu Amar or likes who can say to them NO. if so would they listen to you sxb. Never again we put unoin of two people who don't want to live together as one. International laws are written by people and changed or modified by people. its not upto us what internatioal community does about somaliland's recognition we have our problems that closer to home. the people you mentioned -prof and politicions- are people who have their motives and private agends and nothing to the wider interest of somali people.

click here for link

[Ace of Spadez]

Che-Soyaal, Let me apologize. It seems like you have missinterpreted my words. All I know is, you'd love to have a United SOmalia. You believe that if it is at all possible the Former SOmali republic and other SOmali regions should come together. Now, because of that, you don't buy Somaliland's independence, but you also do condone it. I guess I was mistaken to lump you with HornAfrique, who has other ideas of bringing the Somalis together, namely they shouldn't have a voice at all. But I was just stating the fact, that although you may reject Somaliland in principle, its idea of dividing Somalia, you can at the end of the day, accept what ever the people choose. And thus, we can debate about whether to unite today, or tommorow, or 50 years from now. Whether or not, it is viable for SOmalis to be united in the long run, or if it is at all possible right now, willing or not.

 

Don't get me wrong fellas.

[Gabbal]

I guess I was mistaken to lump you with HornAfrique, who has other ideas of bringing the Somalis together, namely they shouldn't have a voice at all.

I just believe that the righful place for all Somalis, is in a place called the Somali Republic.

 

Without voice? What do you think I stand for? If and when a Somaliwide referendum takes place, about the feelings and attitudes of all issues concerning our people, then and only then will I support seccession. If all Somalis agree seccession is the only solution, and the people agree to seperate, then I have nothing to say.

 

But not now for clan Bantustans!

[AYOUB]

Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar:

" This forum existed close to three years and every single day we were/are bombarded by certain folks about "their" suffering. Not once, prove me wrong, did I see them mention other Soomaalis' suffering. I dare you to prove me wrong. "

 

 

Hornafrq's post compares skirmishes in Djibouti and an incident at Wajir airport with what took place in Somaliland and Somalia.Have you forgotten mass graves in Somaliland and starvation in Somalia ? We are talking about almost a million lives.>>>>>web page

 

 

 

 

If you were motivated by anything other than what is obvious to us, you would not worry about people who live in peace and who getting on with each other and ignore the troubled souls from Mudug all the way to Kenya. When will your 'Somalinimo' talk about the people being forced to take Tanzanian nationality because of suffering or that is ok as long as they live the land for you?

>>>>>web page

 

 

 

Matkey :

Is Ethiopia responsible for what

your people have done to the inter-riverine region people

No Sir. What we have here are 'patriots' who want to turn back the clock, to the dacades when they used to have an unfair and unjust advantage over everyone. Now that the reality is slowly sinking in, that this will never happen using force, 'nationalisms' is the new badge they carry .

>>>>>>>>> web page

 

 

 

Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar:

"P.S.: The worst victims who are still suffering are Soomaali Bantu and Banaadiri folks. For 14 years their women were/are raped, men killed for no absolute reason and their lands confiscated and yet, here we are mum.

 

Sometimes it is good to know who suffered and who are cruelly suffering.."

 

 

As you are aware Somalia's police and army have done much worse things to fellow Somalis than the Kenyans have to their ethnic Somalis. Although I support your call for self-determination, what are gaining from calling people 'adoons'?. Somalis in Kenya have have been allowed to reach much higher in every sector of society compared to Somalia's ethnic Bantus , do they have the right for self-determination? >>>> Somali Bantus as victims

 

 

Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar

That might not be enough but thats all I could dig up from the archives. Wether we said it in here or not, we all know how much the people of Bay suffered and I hope they don't go though that again.

[Paragon]

Can we, for the love of Allaah, learn from this and all other man-made genocides? The least we can do is to ensure such things don occur to us again. Make use of the difficulty please!

[Ace of Spadez]

MMM- looks like you owe AYoub an Apology.

 

 

Horn- Calling Somaliland a tribal bantustan is far from the truth. You know it, I know it, we all know it. If that was the case, the Somaliland ARmy wouldn't be stationed in Yigoore if Somaliland equaled one tribe. The Somaliland flag wouldn't be in Zeylac, and Borame, and Buuhodle, not to mention Ceerigaabo.

[Gabbal]

Ahh Ayoub those times reminded me of a time when SOL was mostly qabiil-free, childish-free, and other such. It's funny how all those threads you brought back relate to me.

[Rokko]

Originally posted by AYOUB_SHEIKH:

We are talking about almost a million lives.

Ayoub, where did you get that number? I million people killed in the north by Siyaad Barre?

 

:confused: :confused:

[Ace of Spadez]

Mobb,

 

I think Ayoub is talking about the Former Somali Republic as a whole, hence the mention of the two in th same sentence. Futhermore, the estimate could be a far higher and be at 1.5 million.

 

As to the exact figure in the north, nobody knows. Most figures that go around that range between 100,000 to 50,000 is usually about the first couple of months when the war started in Hargeisa.

 

The same place I got the 1.5 million has put the losses in Hargeisa alone at 350,000. And as Mr. Afrah says, even higher.

 

 

But the truth is that the number of casualties is a figure that can never be completely determined. One of these institutions came up with its own estimate: 350,000 civilians killed in Hargeisa alone as a result of carpet bombing from the air by hired Rhodesian mercenary pilots after the Somali pilots mutinied against their commanding officers. An estimated 500.000 fled to neighbouring Ethiopia with only the clothes on their backs.

 

The real number is certainly much higher than this figure, because in general Somali families, in Hargeisa or Mogadishu, would bury their dead without going to hospitals to get death certificates. In many cases bodies were destroyed by the bombs that killed them both in Mogadishu, Hargeisa and other cities and towns in the country. It was common sight to see bloated bodies strewn on the streets and in public gardens. In Somalia no one had time to bury the dead as everyone was diving for a cover to save his or her own life. Children, the elderly and the infirm were abandoned in the streets to fend for themselves and were eventually killed by stray bullets and mortars.

 

The firing between government forces and the insurgents was furious, indiscriminate and confusing all round with government forces using heavy artillery guns and the deadly Soviet-made Katyushas, popularly known as BM, on crowded residential areas of the cities and towns. In Mogadishu and Hargeisa it was especially strong. Thousands of civilians fled from one battle zone to another only to be shot by government snipers on rooftops.

 

Shells were bursting in neighbourhoods and whole families were wiped out. Nothing could have lived in them. At the Digfer General Hospital and the Keysenay Hospital in the north of the city hundreds of groaning men, women and children lay in the compound, under trees and the bare floor of the hospitals.

 

One estimated gave a 1993 tally as 1.5 million civilian casualties, probably a large portion associated with the clan wars following the overthrow of the military dictator when the warlords and their militia in Mogadishu turned their guns on each other for the control of the capital. Again, we have not been told how they arrived at this estimate.

 

 

Mr Afrah's analysis on the numbers

[AYOUB]

Spadez no apology needed, just an explaination

 

Hornafrique

those times reminded me of a time when SOL was mostly qabiil-free, childish-free, and other such. It's funny how all those threads you brought back relate to me.

Very true, but the sad thing is you joined MISkiin, Samurai, Mopp and co in the diabolical attack on Somalilanders.

 

 

 

".. People die in Somalia as we speak and they die for no apparent reason other than that they are victims of some deviant who feels that a few square miles of land entitles him or her to a leadership role.People die from hunger and disease while we play on our keyboards and test each other on how fast we can outwit each other.These same very people would be better off if we stopped talking and started helping. " >>>>>>>>posted by Gediid 15 May, 2003

[Senora]

You don't compare the Rawandan genocide to the Cambodian genocide. You can't, there is no methodology. In academia, comparing genocide is seen as having no merit. All I can say is, every life has its worth. No life deserves to suffer

[Gabbal]

Very true, but the sad thing is you joined MISkiin, Samurai, Mopp and co in the diabolical attack on Somalilanders.

Not on a diabolical attack on "Somalilander"s Ayoub, more like on a stance against seccession. Although now I see I let a monster out of the cage.

[Haneefah]

Subaxanallah!!

 

 

MMA,

 

I do understand where you're coming from walalo, it can get quite frustrating sometimes. Laakin hadaan lakala ronaan roob ma da'o. Wakhtigan lagu jiro kheyrku wuxuu inoogu jiraa inaan uduceyno dadkayaga, oo niraano Ilaahayoow Somaalida gidigood xaqa tus, xuquuqul-insaankana fahansii!!

 

May ALlah put an end to the suffering of our people everywhere.

[Ace of Spadez]

Is it just me, or has any one else seen MMA....i think i saw him post in other sections....i wonder why he isn't addressing this thread ...he said prove me wrong...... well...now you have been proven wrong...what say you MMA-...or will you start off with...."some one told me "