Let's Talk About Genocide

[Rahima]

Inaa lilaahi wa inaa ilayhi raajicuun.

 

What's even sadder is that it is beginning to seem that our brethren died in vain for most have not taken heed of the lesson to be learnt here but rather continue to beat the drum of destruction.

 

May Allah guide our people.

[Ex-Xisbiga]

MMA

 

Does famine count as genocide? Then I suppose all natural disasters like floods, earthquakes and typhons can be labelled genocide. Please brother save us your anti-Somaliland sentiment and do not use the poor survivors of the 1990s famine in Badioa as a tool to try and belittle the tragedy that happened in 1988. Natural disasters and man-made genocide are completely two opposite things.

 

I wish the 100 000 people in the North who were slaughtered had a chance at life like the people of Bay and Bakool.

 

[Saxardiid]

Innaa Lilahi Wa innaa ilayhi raajucuun

Thanx MMA, people here need remainder to what happen to the city i lived and grew up. I lost some family members the early days of the civil war when Jess's gangs were shelling baydhabo city.

 

Hassan Jama

Does famine count as genocide? Then I suppose all natural disasters like floods, earthquakes and typhons can be labelled genocide. Please brother save us your anti-Somaliland sentiment and do not use the poor survivors of the 1990s famine in Badioa as a tool to try and belittle the tragedy that happened in 1988. Natural disasters and man-made genocide are completely two opposite things.

it wasn't natural but it was man made genocide. the peope in bay and bakool were the most efficent groups in somalia. they eat what they grew unlike other parts of somalia where mostly relied food aid from out side the country. what happen was that the food reservers they kept in food banks or bakaaro for the rainy days where looted by both bare's tribe from Gedo and USC mafia headed by the mad general. on top of that they ethinically cleansed or atleast that was their intention so other tribes can resettle their land and take thier farms. what happened in somaliland was horrific to say the least and i support every attempt to put those responsible under the justice they long avoided e.g. morgan, gani, jess, samter and so forth. but what expected somalilanders was atleat the could say is not slands alone that suffered in somalia but other people i.e. reer bay and bakool.

[Qudhac]

Am going to ignore the person who posted the pictures becasue it is clear the reason he posted was to take cheap shots at certain members of this forum, which i think is dispicaple and sad to us this as political argument.

 

 

On the issue of this on going argument between somalilanders and others on the issue of genocide, i would say that i dont think any somalilander says that the wasnt suffering in the south all we say is that somaliland suffered the larges genocide that took place in the former somalia republic.

 

now the difference between what happened in somaliland and the rest of somalia is quite different becasue the genocide that happened in somaliland was carried out by the GOVERNMENT OF REPUBLIC OF SOMALIA while most of the killing that happened in the south was done by war lords and clan millitia groups.

 

The PRESIDENT of somalia gave the order to massacre these people and it was carried out by the top millitary generals of the republic of somalia, it wasnt done by some rac tag warlords or some millitia men.

 

while most of the killing in rest of somalia happened after the government collapts and the place was over run by clan warlords who just went on killing spread on top of this there was the great famine of 92 which exasparated by the suffering of the people in this region.

 

so there is big difference, when your own president gives orders to attemt to wipe out whole cities and gets the national army to carry it out, its like Bush giving orders to start the distruction of New York and Maimi and gets the Air force to bombard it day and night,

 

cos thats what happened in somaliland The somali Air force with the blue flag was bombarding the cities day and night. discrimanately droping bombs on the streets.

 

 

Now if your own warlords slaughter you then what what the f**k do you want Somaliland to do, should we come to muqdisho and fight them,

 

All i know is these warlords wouldnt be there still killing if they werent getting the support financially and otherwise from the popilation at large, cos thats how they survive collecting money from their clans and no matter how many innocent people he massacred his clan clap their hand and collect money for them.

 

 

so what do you expect.

[Rokko]

Guys, MMA is getting tired of this bull about genocide and mass graves posted on here everyday when the people of Bay and Bakool were massacred. There ain't no need to get defensive and attack the brotha for voicing his own opinions about this double standard na'mean.

 

Qudhac, let me ask ya a sincere question.

 

What would Riyaale do as the president of Somaliland if a "renegade militia" captured Berbera and Burco? hmmmmmm. tough question.

 

Now going back to the topic, in this sad history of Somalia, there is no single Somali ethnic group that suffered more than the people of Bay and Bakool. That is just a fact written in the history books.

[Ace of Spadez]

Mobb Deep, that actuall has taken place. The Militia of Cabdilahi Yusuf have forcebilly captured Las Anod, and want to create a blood bath. As you can see, the government hasn't rushed to war. Every one knows that Puntland cannot defend itself because of its financial woes. The Somaliland Army could have over ran them in days, if not hours. Yet, the interests of the population is at hand. You don't kill the very same people you want in your country. Simple logic.

[Rokko]

Puntland militia

Somaliland Army

 

same rhetoric, same words. no answers.

 

Spadez, LA wasn't captured saxib. Stop the propaganda. The Somaliland representative who was taking money from Hargeisa was kicked out of LA by the puntland police because people were getting tired of some dude who was telling people that LA is part of Somaliland na'mean? His office was shut down and he escaped without harm.

 

That is the only thing that changed in the politics of Laascaanood since the civil war na'mean.

 

Of course when Riyaale got mad and threatened he would invade the city if his representative wasn't returned to LA, uncle Yeey sent troops to defend the city. That is another fact that doesn't need to be hidden from people na'mean.

 

But you didn't answer my question. What would Riyaale or Cigaal (if he was alive) do if Berbera was captured by a group of the SNM?

 

The answer is that Riyaale would do the exact same thing Cigaal did when he completely destroyed Burco. He would hunt down those who are against "qaranimoda Somaliland" na'mean. Ma been baan sheegi?

 

cheers saxib.

[Ace of Spadez]

Buroa was a tribal war. Surely if Somaliland of today after 15 years is a nonexistent government and state, like some of you say, then you can't surely say that it was a government in 1996 and had the capacity to enforce power. Every one knows that was a tribal war, whether you like to believe it or not.

 

However today, LA is in a whole different position. Foreign elements have invaded it, and it will be pacified without leveling the city. Its just a matter of time, not if and when. Surely I hope you don't think LA is being spared the violence because it is inpregnable. No, its being spared because you don't put your citizens in harms way.

 

Listen to the Garaad's in LA, they'll tell you Somaliland has never subjugated them. However the militia from Puntland has. There is the difference.

 

The reason you and I dissagree is not one based on ideology, say with Horn Afrique, Soyaal, and Che however misguided would like to see Somaliland as an integral part of the Union, because they believe in Pan-Somalia as a principle. With them, a debate can be had on principles and ideas. You can't debate with some one who sees things through tribal lines.

 

There is no tribal hostility in Somalia. Look around you, most conflicts are based on grassing/water, and other economic interests. Not a problem with anothe tribe persay. Wake UP.

[Suldaanka]

Very sad pictures indeed. May Allah rest their souls in peace.

 

Mobb_Deep...

The genocide in the North began way before 1988. In fact, most of the disappearances of intellectuals, the killings of students, the rapings... the events that led to the declaration and the establishment of the SNM happened way before the SNM came into the cities. 1988 was the climax of the war.

 

I personally remember the 1986 curfew that run 24 hours for about 2 weeks. In that curfew, every shop, every hospital everything was shut down, you would be killed on the spot if they found you infront of your house let alone on the streets. I remember my family cooking what little food we had using wood from our " wooden chairs" and "wooden tables" (the contents of our house) as fuel to cook because there was sever shortage of fuel and no one dared to step outside the house. In the subsiquent years, the curfew was eased up a little, and it run from 3PM to 7AM everyday. This is only what I could remember as a kid, but the stories are horrif and to say the genocide started in 1988 doesn't do justice to those innocent people that were killed before the 1988 war.

[king_450]

Miskiin Macruuf, 10x for sharing these pics, for those of us who has not seen in first hand what happened,but i know some of those who committed these crimes are among us, laughing and eating with us, if you know them plz report them. After seeing these pics i came to the conclusion that every somali who has witnessed these crimes, need a "Therapy" i think the whole nation needs a "Therapy

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Salaan...

 

*Sigh*

 

Some Soomaali people...

 

First thing first, I never was into any silly qabiil politics {I might be against secession of any Soomaali populated land, even if my qabiil tries to secede; against federalism, etc, but never into qabiil}, even if my people suffered. And I never was against any qabiil since ALL my family's relatives are made off every imaginable Soomaali qabiil out there. Even if they were not.

 

This forum existed close to three years and every single day we were/are bombarded by certain folks about "their" suffering. Not once, prove me wrong, did I see them mention other Soomaalis' suffering. I dare you to prove me wrong. Their suffering was deplorable and should be condemned in every possible way.

 

However, others suffered too and you aren't alone in that league. And no one is comparing any tragedy in here or any other place.

 

I never posted these pictures before because I didn't want to evoke the sad chapter of our history.

 

It happened, we can at least forgive or have some grudge until we face the grave. It is upto the individual.

 

To the guy who had even the tendency to question that deliberate man-made genocide as a "natural" famine, I don't know what to say to you and this proves when I say only you care your suffering, not even acknowledging other Soomaali people's suffering speaks volumes.

 

Does famine count as genocide? Then I suppose all natural disasters like floods, earthquakes and typhons can be labelled genocide

Did you read the background piece I accompanied. I put that piece to make more awareness to the oblivious people like you.

 

Again, if this was not genocide by burying hundreds of these emaciated bodies everyday, what do you call it then? Baliis, leave the hypocritical qabiil politics and see if you have a heart

 

If adults can get like these two skeletal people, I don't want to see how the children turn out to be

 

If you were in this father's shoes, I know what you would have thought today...

_______________

 

P.S.: The worst victims who are still suffering are Soomaali Bantu and Banaadiri folks. For 14 years their women were/are raped, men killed for no absolute reason and their lands confiscated and yet, here we are mum.

 

Sometimes it is good to know who suffered and who are cruelly suffering.

[Gediid]

^^^^You are not doing justice to the people you say you represent.You say you are not into qabill but you reek off it.This issue could have been discussed in more better ways and I strongly suggest that your blind hate for one group should not be masked in tragic events that took place somewhere else.

The whole world was witness to this moment live as it happened and a thousand tears were shed in every form possible but the victims of the genocide in the North were not so fortunate and people like you will do all that is possible in their power to hide the truth from coming out.

[Ace of Spadez]

Gediid, eventhough like you said the entire world wept for these people, nevertheless they should have been mentioned. MMA has the duty, like every other Somali to show the sad reality of the civil war and how Somalis have debased themselves from humanity. However, like you, I don't understand why he needs to compare. Doesn't he know you don't compare. You don't compare the Rawandan genocide to the Cambodian genocide. You can't, there is no methodology. In academia, comparing genocide is seen as having no merit. All I can say is, every life has its worth. No life deserves to suffer. Don't compare, because these two tragedies, and all the other tragedies in the former Somali Republic, happened at different times, in different forms, and different motivations. It is irresponsible to present these pictures in such a manner.

 

FYI MMA-, the atrocities that happened in Baydhabo and elsewhere, do not, cannot, willnot burry, what happened in Somaliland. Furthermore, you intention of saying, shut up, will not work. You will not intimidate us.

[Che -Guevara]

Originally posted by Spadez:

The reason you and I dissagree is not one based on ideology, say with Horn Afrique, Soyaal, and Che however misguided would like to see Somaliland as an integral part of the Union, because they believe in Pan-Somalia as a principle. With them, a debate can be had on principles and ideas. You can't debate with some one who sees things through tribal lines.

 

Saaxib, If the Che that you refer to is me, then you have misqouted me. On contrary, as southerner, I support the breakway republic to go its own way. If Somaliland doesn't want to be an integral part of Somalia. It is fine by me. I do believe in Pan Somali Ideology or more specifically Pan Somali Ideology that encourages the unity of all willing somali regions . The key thing is choice.

[Samafal]

Inaalilaahi wa inaa illahi rajicuun,

 

This is beyond my little brain, all I am saying is awful things happened and the best course of action we need to take is to forgive and forget for the sake of God Almighty while at same time trying our level best to bring justice to those who perpetrated this inhumane, brutal actions that happened in Somalia whoever they're wherever they might be.