Macallin Me Miskiin xiin; a discusson on alshabaab

[xiinfaniin]

Me, adeer what do you want me to talk about? I started this thread for you to explain why you think alshabaab is righ. Or even why you think alshabaab are necassary evil. I mean cant you just share what you think are the real truths about alshabaab?

 

Read the title of the thread. You are the Macallin here, I am the miskiin wanting to know and learn. alshabaab is the subject of discussion.

 

Sharifka boqolsanaan ka sheekeyneyey. Waa nin nabadeed. Qoriga si fiican uma qabsan yaqaan. Dawladnimuu rabaa. Belaayadaan Ilaah ku salladay weeye waxaan rabaa inaad naga dhaadhiciso.

 

Jooji tororogta waryee.

[me]

Xiin,

 

Your hide and seek game is boring. Get on with it already.

 

I was of the opinion that this thread was intended as a dialogue and not a monologue.

 

So if you don't have anything to add, say so and we can close it down, or alternatively you can man up and use this thread to share your opinions, instead of asking silly predictable questions.

 

I have done my initial post on the topic of discussion. Now it is your turn.

 

Do not disappoint the good SOL public.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Really?

 

My questions are not silly; they are relevant. All I asked you was to tell us what you think alshabaab objectives are. You dodged. That tells me that either you don’t know what alshabaab's objectives are or, to use Aw Tusbaxle's words, you are too timid to share it with us.

 

Now let me make it easy for you. Here below is what I think is one of alshabaabs objectives.

 

Alshabaabs are not fighting Somali warlords; they are fighting current world order. Alshabaabs are not fighting to reconstitute or revive Somali republic. Somalia just happens to be staging ground for their ambitious goals of toppling other states including Ethiopia, Kenya, even Jabbuuti. The atom of their theology is that the world is divided between Muslim and nonMuslim. Muslims who have relationship with the current world order will be targeted. That includes states as well as individuals. If Sharif resigns today, alshabaabs wont be satisfied for their goals are greater than changing a nonexistent system in a failed state. They will continue their march and the war will continue---you will correct me here if I am wrong, but I believe that with alshabaabs mindset and thinking, the Somali conflict will continue if they prevail as you wish. The coverage of the conflict will spread. You may find that admirable but here is one painful fact associated with the continuation of Somali conflict.

 

1- as alshabaab wars continue, so does the displacement and exodus of Somali population. As it’s today most Somalis have already left the country and it’s really miracle that we still have a sovereignty given the thinning population in a vast land with no central government to guard it. Even more will flee from the ensuing mayhem. All you need is to imagine what will happen when this conflict spreads to the Northern areas (Puntland, Somaliland). And what happens when the Somali populace exits Somalia by large numbers? Is not that a strategic gift for other states that have long term interest to see Somalia weakened? Is Somalia today in a position to fight the world order that exists?

 

Forget their methods for I am sure even you find them deplorable. Talk to me their end goal awoowe? Just like the warlords before them, alshabaab see the lack of strong Somali government that controls its borders advantageous to their cause. They want to preserve the vacuum. There is a discernible difference however. That is, where ever they control those who don’t contest their rule would find a reasonably habitable environment, measures taken by the current world order as a result of alshabaabs control notwithstanding. But is that what you want yaa Me?

 

Waa ku bilaabay, ee hawsha wad. Don’t dodge it again.

[xiinfaniin]

Tolow Me ma ii maqanyahay?

[LayZie G.]

^He did answer part of your question in his second post when he said,

My answer is a tsunami has been unleashed, a volcano erupted and forces of change came into being. These forces have a dynamic of their own and they are destroying the old orders. The old systems, these forces are in essence agents of development instead of destruction. To use your words they are agents deploying Slash-and-burn tactics.

Globally, the support for extremist Islamic elements remains high and Somalia and Somalis are no exception. Aboowe me wants to use this growing phenomena to neutralize the internal war and win over the TFG and its masters. He is sick and tired of same old politics. He is disgusted with various entities that continue to change shirts, one day a warlord who loots the shacabka and the next, he is an upstanding citizen who wants progress and change. For once, aboowe me wants to see another group at the helm of the national politics. He wants a new engine because for him its out with the old, in with the new. He knows the shabaab are imperfect, so what they kill few thousands and display nearly a million families? What's a half or a million displaced to aboowe me and shabaab?

 

As long as a taliban like regime is created, who will eventually fall, which means we have to pick up the pieces once again to bring about a country we can once more call truly ours is not much to ask, is it ya posteR? He just wants his inadeero with the aid of his pakistani masters to lead, just once.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Nationla politics and alshabaab can not be said in the same breath. alshabaab is a global movement.

 

My question still stands. War Me ma ii maqantahay, mise sidii nimaan ogahay baad baxsattay?

[me]

Dear SOLers,

 

For convenience sake the Sharifites of SOL have decided that it is up to me to defend the actions of Al Shabab - Xiz Islam. Unfortunately I will have to disappoint them.

 

I will not defend the actions nor the ideology of Al Shabab – Xiz Islam.

 

I will defend the common interest of the Somali Nation. I will also highlight where the common interest of our people and the actions of Al Shabab – Xiz Islam correspond. By doing this I hope that good SOL public has the opportunity to see clearly the difference between the TFG and its opposition in the form of Al Shabab – Xiz Islam.

 

 

Issues of national importance for the Somali Nation are:

 

1. The sovereignty of the Somali Republic. Not only in word, but also in practice.

2. The total withdrawal of foreign forces from Somali soil.

3. The right of the Somali people to choose a government of their own liking, without foreign nations imposing a puppet regime on them.

4. The issue of the occupied territories.

5. The disbandment of the TFG that illegally calls itself the government of Somalia.

6. The unification of all Somali territories under one unitary government.

 

In short that the Somali people get the reigns of their destiny back in their own hands.

 

The TFG

 

The TFG that fellow nomads such as Xiin and Paragon support is not a government. Even paper governments are ashamed of the TFG.

 

• The initial The Transitional Federal Government (TFG) was formed 2004 in a process dominated by Ethiopia and Kenya. This TFG also known as TFG part 1 was composed of warlords who have held the Somali people hostage for more than 13 years at that time. So it is interesting to read the following on Transitional Federal Charter Art 31-2:

 

A person shall be disqualified from being a Member of

Parliament if that person: -

 

(a) Holds any other public appointment other than as

member of the Cabinet;

(b) Has been pronounced as being of unsound mind;

© Has been convicted of an interdictable offence;

(d) Has been removed from any public office on grounds of

gross misconduct or corruption.

 

So the warlords were of Sound mind and not corrupt?

 

• The TFG part 1 also worked on the principle of 4.5, the initial transitional Somali parliament had 275 representatives. Each major clan had 61 seats and the minor clans had 31 seats to share among themselves.

 

This clannist division of Somalia still upheld by the TFG part 2 institutionalizes the clan factor in Somali politics. It strengthens regionalist tendencies and undermines national cohesion. The 4.5 formula also works in tandem with the proliferation of clan fiefdoms posing as mini-states. These mini-states form a direct challenge to any central authority in Somalia; furthermore they can be tools for division that can be used by malevolent foreign actors interested in the damaging of the Somali Nation.

 

• To make matters worse TFG part 1 invited 50.000 Ethiopian troops and 4000 Ugandan troops onto Somali soil in order to subjugate the Somali Nation. The result was tens of thousands of deaths and hundreds of thousands displaced.

 

That was the TFG part 1 in short. Then like any blockbuster horror movie a TFG part 2 was created.

 

TFG part 1 met brave resistance from the Somali nation. The Ethiopian invaders, the Ugandan mercenaries, the TFG puppets and the shadowy masters pulling the strings behind the scenes realized that force, no matter how brutal can not subjugate the resilient Somali Nation.

 

The enemies of the Somali nation when they couldn’t defeat the Somali people in battle choose treachery as their next weapon against our people.

 

In late 2006 when the ICU was in disarray after the initial invasion, Sharif Ahmed the Spokesperson of the ICU. A man low on principles and high on ambition was captured on the Kenyan border. After the initial contact with foreign agents, these agents assessed that he could be of value, so they released him, keeping in mind that he could be turned into an asset.

 

In mid 2007 it was already clear that TFG part 1 and its Ethiopian/Ugandan muscle were not capable of turning the tide against the Islamist/Nationalist coalition they faced.

 

Then all of the sudden Sharif the former ICU spokesperson enters the political arena, no longer in camouflage or hugging an AK, no longer with cimaamad, but this time with a suit, and a kuffiyah. Relaxed and smiling.

 

The minders of the TFG part 1 interested in giving the Ethiopian invaders a face saving opportunity forced their puppet Cabdulahi Yusuf to resign. The Ethiopians agreed to leave the Somali quagmire in order to have the chance to fight another day instead of perishing along with their imperial dreams in the streets of Mogadishu.

 

Sharif brought along 275 loyalists to Jabuuti, these loyalists had no support from the population, they did not control an inch of Somalia and were only selected because they were yes-men. These 275 yes-men and the initial 275 TFG part 1 warlord parliamentarians selected Sharif in a sham process as the new ‘president’ of Somalia.

 

The powers that helped Sharif to become the ‘president’ of Somalia were not in the vain believe that he would succeed in the task of governing Somalia. The only thing they wanted from him was to create divisions among the resistance movement and to destroy the only viable force standing in the way of their subjugation of our nation.

 

Sharifs mission was to provoke an Islamist civil war.

 

He and the treachery against our nation failed. Most loyal sons of Somalia united in one front against Sharif, his political opportunists and the treachery against our nation.

 

Many of you may argue that I am too harsh on Sharif’s TFG, while others might say that I am too mild.

 

Let us look at how the TFG performs when compared against the six issues of national importance

1. The sovereignty of the Somali Republic. Not only in word, but also in practice.

2. The total withdrawal of foreign forces from Somali soil.

3. The right of the Somali people to choose a government of their own liking, without foreign nations imposing a puppet regime on them.

4. The issue of the occupied territories.

5. The disbandment of the TFG that illegally calls itself the government of Somalia.

6. The unification of all Somali territories under one unitary government.

 

 

1. The TFG is in the hands of foreign forces. They have designed it, they fund it and they guide it.

2. The TFG is solely dependant on the protection of AU forces; it can not function without foreign forces. Let alone demand the withdrawal of these forces.

3. The TFG part 1 and part 2 were imposed on the Somali people by outsiders. They are not a product of Somalia, but are foreign and artificial.

4. The TFG has given away Somali territorial waters, let alone having an opinion on the occupied territories. We should also remember that the TFG speaker of parliament with the consent of Sharif Ahmed requested troops from neighboring countries while in villa Somalia. So how can the TFG speak about occupied territories while they are so much in need of support from Kenya and Ethiopia?

5. The TFG calls itself the Somali government while it only controls few blocks in the capital alone and even this is due to the presence of foreign troops. Also how can the TFG call itself the Somali government while it can’t even manage the resources donor countries give to her? So if they can’t manage money, how do they want to rule Somalia?

6. The TFG can not even run Mogadishu let alone unify Somalia.

 

 

In conclusion

 

From this short exercise we can see that one does not have to agree with the Al-Shabab –Xiz Islam coalition in order to disagree with the TFG and its naked supporters. We can all see that the TFG is a dead horse.

 

There are matters of national importance when looking at this particular problem.

The TFG has failed utterly and it does not have a chance for redemption.

 

Al Shabab – Xiz Islam although they have radical tendencies, have time and again stayed close to the acceptable norm, occasionally surpassing the boundaries of decency but in general staying parallel with the Somali National interest when we look at issues concerning the unification of our country under one Somali rule, the occupied territories, withdrawal of foreign forces and the right of self determination of the Somali people.

 

I would like to invite the supporters of Sharif’s TFG also known as the SOL Sharifites, in particular Xiinfaniin and Paragon to address the issues that I have raised in this post i.e. my objections against the TFG and the issues of National Importance.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Ma intaas baad rimanayd awoowe?

 

You think you are good at attacking tfg entity (which is essentially a political arrangement, that most people understand its disadvantages and advantages) but cannot put forth a reasonable argument for the viability of the alternative in the form of alshabaab. You want to cheerlead for them, but in the final analysis, you are unable or not ready to defend the ideology, and the objectives they are fighting for?

 

I am not sure if it’s fulaynimo or dhicisnimo. It could be both. In either case, this is exactly what I wanted to prove. That those who our the loudest when it comes cheerleading the destruction of Somalia in the name of liberation do not have the slightest clue as to what it’s that they want. They are empty vessels whose looms excite the viewers at shore! But they truly are, well, empty.

 

I want someone who can defend what he believes. I do not want to deal with natural whiners. Me is a natural whiner.

 

I am done with Me.

[me]

Xiin,

 

You invited me to this gogol. I had accepted your invitation. I have done my duty, the fact that you could not do that in this thread that you created only shows the character of your being and why someone of your character might support a failed entity such as the TFG.

 

You have decided to run, an understandable instinct when facing me . Shall we say that it is too bad that there are no Ugandans in this forum that your kind can hide behind?

 

The irony is in the name Xiinfaniin

[xiinfaniin]

Me, you have accepted my invitation without apparently knowing why I invited you. I wanted someone who can stay within the parameters of the issues at hand. This thread is about alshabaab and how they are necessary evil (as you put it in another thread) for Somalia. You refused to talk about alshabaab and went on tangent talking on old issues we excessively covered before. You said you don’t want to defend alshabaab ideology. And that ended our discussion ya Me. I must note that it would be logical to say if you were wise you would not support someone whom you can’t defend his objectives.

 

Now the rest of your talk is cantarabaqash.

[me]

Xiin,

 

You are not one to dictate parameters. I have accepted your invitation to discuss all matters not to be turned into an advocate of a single political group whose ideology I do not identify with.

 

I have accepted your invitation with clear conscience and with sincerity. You on the other hand had clearly ulterior motives and was busy thinking of parameters.

 

The points of contention between us are far larger then the parameters you wished to set.

 

If your invitation was sincere then you will continue with this discussion until we have reached a satisfactory conclusion.

 

On the other hand if your ploy has failed and you have no further tricks up your sleeve, then it is best you safe face and leave this thread.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Simple question: do you read my introductory lines of this thread? What about the heading of the topic?

 

I mean are you just saying things or you are a dumb terminal waryee?

 

EDIT: the reason I started this thread was because of your below assertion in another thread.I gave you heads up that I wanted to debate with you on this point. But you have disappointed.

 

Originally posted by me:

 

I do not support Al Shabab, however I believe that they are a necessary evil.

what engendered this thread

[me]

Xiin,

 

It is insincere and intellectually corrupt to narrow down Somalia's problems to Al Shabab. As you have claimed earlier in this thread:

the central issue of Somali conflict---alshabaab !

That is a perversion of the truth. You wish to ignore the most corrupt and biggest failure in Somali history the TFG and then you want a debate? And then you have the audacity to speak of parameters?

 

As A&T put it its hypocritical.

 

This is a forum of men Xiin, so behave like a man.

[me]

Xiin,

 

The Shabab is a necessary evil when our nation is confronted with the TFG I have described above. Do you disagree with that?

[xiinfaniin]

^Now you realize that you come unprepared.

 

Awoowe dhan isugu leexo. It’s very simple; can you defend alshabaab as a political ideology that vies to control Somalia? If you say yes I am willing to give you the leisure to even assume tfg defeated and done with. Assume there is no tfg; alshabaab is the victor in Mogadishu. Ugandans are utterly defeated, and whatever is left of them, were airlifted out of Somalia.

 

One last note: don’t question of my manhood awoowe. If you go there, this conversation will be nasty.