Puntland interior minister arrives in LA SOOL..

[Liibaan]

Thinker,

i see you still cant except somaliand or what you term North West somalia leaving,

And I see, you still against people of Sool Sanaag and Buuhoodle to decide for themselves and join Somalia

 

even if the issue of Sool, and Sang were solved you would still have issue of somaliland living,

Even if we accept the secession of your northwest region, you would still have issue to respect people of Sool Sanaag and Buuhoodle to decide for themselves and join Somalia

 

i dont understand, to issue of buhoodle its in region firmly in support of somaliland,

Me too, I don’t understand the issue of Ceelafweyn and Caynabo both are in regions firmly in support of unity with Somalia

 

and as you claim let the people choose let the full region itself vote for somalia or with somaliland, you and i both no the outcome of that vote, in Sang you have areas that are in support of somaliland so what do you suggest the rights of those people be to follow the majority, because you say so then you must say the same thing about buhoodle.

True, both of us should be fair and objective

 

How about if Sool and Sanaag are divisible, Togdheer is as well divisible and vice versa meaning permitting the areas pro unity/somaliweyn to go with Somalia, and areas that pro secession to go with Somaliland regardless of local borders between sool, sanaag and togheer

 

OR we should not split of each of the three regions into smaller districts, and see where the majority of Sool want, majority of sanaag, and majority of togheer prefer

 

The adwal region wont have their own state for the simple fact they were never pre-1960 i nation, unlike somaliland that was,

Nonsense, no one was a nation, there was British somali coolony just like Hong Kong was never a nation, Hong Kong was once a british colony and now part of China

 

If Awdal wont have their own state, then Northwest as well wont have their own state,

 

You cannot say I can have my own state but other people cannot have be fair

 

plus my brother the issue of pandra box being open is unfound even the A.U. fact finding mission de-bunk this view so that point is not strong.

Source?????////

 

 

Face brother, the real obstacle to Somaliland recognition is the issue of Pandora box,

How will the world deal with future secession movements in north somalia like sool, toghdheer, sanaag, and then buuhoodle, caynabo,ceelafweyn

 

How about Puntland, Bay/Bakool land, Juba land, Hiraanland might seek secession as well?

 

How about other secesion movements in Horn of Africa and Africa like western somalia, oromo, afar in Ethoipia , southern sudan, northeast kenya, northern uganda

 

 

Only Somalis have the solution for their problem,

 

What we have here are two regions controled by two different nations, IE UK and Italy with set borders, after they left the two independent nations choose not forced to combine there natios to one, with the hopes of other regions coming, but in the end that never happened

Entirely FALSE

 

What we have here are two former colonies(not region) controlled by two colonial powers, regarding the British each subclan had a separate agreement with British and also some tribes never signed agreement with British, thus they were never part of the colony officially

 

anyways presently irrelevant its just was one small chapter of the long history of Somali people, remember that Somali people have a history before and after that short-lived colonial history

 

 

one region chooose to leave its simple like that,

Only northwest choose to leave the union, not all the territories of former British Somali colony, that’s the issue and its not simple as you wish

 

look at it in none-emotional way brother look at it in black and white and you see the truth

There is nothing black and white in this world

 

Brother you as well donot be emotional and blindly support socalled somaliland - one clan project

 

Brother, I think you need to face the truth, and you already know that only part of former british somali colony want to secede, and other part want to stay with the union

 

people for some odd reason still refuse to let somaliland go

people (somalilanders) for some odd reason still refuse to let sool sanaag and cayn go their way - stay the unoin with larger Somalia

 

 

my main point which no one refutes is that puntland does not control FULL control of both these regions thats all i am saying people.

AND my main point which no one refutes is that Somaliland does not control FULL control of all theses regions (Sool, Sanaag, and Togdheer) thats the truth

 

 

In the case of Saaxil the whole region as whole choose to do this in the case of Budhoole its only one section in the region that choose to create it not the whole region as whole old boy.

Regarding former British Somali colony its only one section in the in the former colony that want to secede, it not the whole former colony as whole want to secede

 

There is striking similarities between former British Somali colony, Caynabo, Ceelafweyn, and Buuhoodle

 

 

Self-declared faction of Somaliland only represent northwest region of Somalia

[SomaliThinker]

As i known deep down you my brother, Garaad Caanood will never expect somaliland to leave lol. Let me break down your points one by one ok.

 

1 I already stated that if people in those regions IE Sool and Sang wanted to leave, i had no issue with that but in the case of Sang shifting of border rules would be needed to bring in sections of the population that support somaliland, for Sool the same thing.

 

2. With the issue of Budhoole i be a fair open minded person, and if that small section wants to leave is say somaliland should be nation for the people who belive in it not for the people who dont, thus your argument at me is resolved

 

3.With the case of Adwal when i said it was not nation and somaliland was i meant IE British Somaliland to 1960 Adwal was in Recongnized region of Recongnized independent nation called Somaliland. Also you i see from your comment "anyways presently irrelevant its just was one small chapter of the long history of Somali people" as pushing the issue aside, the reality is Somalis from day one North and South have not had common history and what i mean common kingdom linking the North and South like other groups who are ethnically the same, we have not had lets say in the ancient past King who controled vast areas of somalia, each people lived in there region IE there own little nations, so brother dont give the view that somalia as long history of clan linkage ok.

 

4.When you wrote down the source? when i said the A.U. found no pandra box if somaliland left you i was really shocked by your reaction. The report is year old and most people into somali news heard of it but i see a person like you needs proof so here are some links afro news the link is www.afrol.com/articles/19355 - 21k

This is a direct quote:"The AU has so far taken the application by Somalilander President Rayale seriously. Despite fears that recognition would lead to the fragmentation of Somalia or other AU member states, an AU fact-finding mission in 2005 concluded the situation was sufficiently "unique and self-justified in African political history" that "the case should not be linked to the notion of 'opening a Pandora's box'."

 

The AU fact-finding mission recommended that the AU "should find a special method of dealing with this outstanding case" at the earliest possible date. On 16 May this year, President Rayale met with the AU Commission Chairperson, Alpha Oumar Konaré, to discuss Somaliland's application for membership".

 

Another link for you if you dont trust me lol

www.unpo.org/article.php?id=3867 - 10k

here is a direct quote: "Somaliland: AU Mission to Somaliland Says Recognition Overdue

2006-03-01

 

 

The African Union is coming under increased pressure from the breakaway Somaliland Republic to accord it recognition.

 

This follows revelations that an AU fact-finding mission to Somaliland between April 30 and May 4, 2005, had expressed the opinion that Somaliland had been made a "pariah region" by default. It strongly recommended the country's recognition, saying that since its declaration of independence in 1991, Somaliland has been steadily laying the foundations of a democratic "modern state."

 

However, the report of the mission – which was appointed by former president of Mali and chairperson of the AU Commission, Alpha Oumar Konare – has been kept under wraps and is yet to be discussed by the AU executive council for possible adoption by the heads of state summit.

 

The mission also noted that the lack of recognition ties the hands of the authorities and people of Somaliland as they cannot effectively transact business with the outside world in pursuit of their reconstruction and development goals.

 

It was of the view that while it is the primary responsibility of the authorities and people of Somaliland to make efforts to acquire political recognition from the international community, the AU should be disposed to judge the case of Somaliland from an objective historical viewpoint and a moral angle vis-a-vis the aspirations of its people.

 

The authorities of Somaliland have successively visited the AU Commission in 2003, 2004, and early 2005, seeking an observer status for Somaliland within the AU, not only to be able to follow developments on the continent, but also to gain a platform from which the country can state its case for being recognised as a sovereign state.

 

That proposed status is based on the recognition by the Somalilanders of the inherited colonial borders at the time of independence from Britain in June 1960.

 

As a result, there is a visibly emotional attachment to the reclaimed independence and a firm determination among the people of Somaliland not to return to the failed union with Somalia, whether or not recognition is granted.

 

Somaliland – situated on the northern tip of the former greater Somalia – boycotted the two-year peace process in Nairobi that culminated in the election of President Abdullahi Yusuf in October 2004.

 

The Somaliland authorities have consistently rejected the idea of reuniting with Somalia, and recently warned that should Africa and the international community insist on Somaliland re-establishing the union, the leaders and people of Somaliland would fight to preserve their independence.

 

The mission takes this line of argument by stating that the Union established in 1960 between Somaliland and Somalia brought enormous injustice and suffering to the people of the region.

 

"The fact that the union was never ratified and also did not work to satisfaction while it lasted from 1960 to 1990, makes Somaliland's search for recognition historically unique and self-justified in African political history. As such, the AU should find a special method of dealing with this outstanding case," the report recommends.

 

Furthermore, given the acute humanitarian situation prevailing in Somaliland, the AU should mobilise financial resources to help alleviate the plight of the affected communities, especially those catering for internally displaced persons and returnees.

 

The mission set out to assess the prevailing political, socio-economic, security, humanitarian and other related issues, as well as to listen to the concerns of the leadership and people of Somaliland, and duly report back the findings and the recommendations to the AU Commission for further action. It was led by the deputy chairperson of the Commission, Patrick Mazimhaka.

 

While calling upon the interna-tional community to consider the issue of self-determination objectively, the mission noted evidence of democratic institutions sprouting among them; the constitution of Somaliland, which entrenches, among other aspects, the separation of power between the three arms of government; the balance of political forces built upon the functional co-habitation of traditional governance institutions, as embodied in the political role of clan elders and elected representatives; the existence of active opposition political parties with some capacity to influence public policy; and a budding independent press.

 

The plethora of problems confronting Somaliland in the political, socio-economic, military, humanitarian and other sectors stem from the legacy of a political union with Somalia, that malfunctioned, bringing destruction and ruin upon the population.

 

Though credit has to be given to Somaliland for promoting a democratic order within a relatively short span of time, there are gaps that need attention from both policy makers and the individual citizens. One critical gap lies in gender relations in terms of the predominance of men in the various structures, institutions and processes.

 

 

 

Source: The East African

 

 

I hope this shows you the pandra box view is weak point from the simple fact that the A.U. the symbol for Africa dont see somaliland as danger, only you do for some reason lol.

 

 

5. When i say dont look at it emotionally, because the issue of somaliland and somalia is emotional issue for somalia, legeally the call by somaliland is correct, but emotinally somalis cant stand it. I look at the issue strictly legally. Sections of Sang and areas sool want to stay in somalia because of clanist feelings and i understand, if they leave, this should in my view not stop somaliland from leaving the union.

 

6. With who has full control of Sang and Sool we be going in circles i say Puntland dont have FULL control and you say We dont lets leave it as that because on that issue we be going in circles and frankly its starting to bore me.

 

7. In the end like a stated before SOmaliland has 4 strong regions who support its case, Sang is half support and in Sool low support, but still as i stated before this should not stop somaliland from leaving.

 

In the end its comes down to not Sool and Saang for you, its the secession aspect that you cant take, as i stated even if the Sool and Sang issue was peacefully resolved, you bring up the pandra box issue, to still not Somaliland go, by claiming if they leave other regions in somalia or africa will do the same things thats the heart of your isssue with somaliland a part somalia not there is what you have issue with the Sool and Sang problem is just excuss unionst use to not somaliland to be let go. but alas in the end the world body the AU, EU, IGAD, USA, TFG in the end will have to sit down with somaliland and after the dust clears we both see the outcome ok my brother.

[Liibaan]

Thinker

 

How about if I say, you as well will never expect SSC (Sool sanaag buuhoodle ) leave your Somaliland

 

Former British Somali colony and the current Hargeysa-based-admin is totally two different thing that have no link its like SUN and MOON

 

The current Hargeysa-based-admin (So-called Somaliland) is only northwest and is one-clan project

 

Somali people might not had single political entity in the past, but Somali people had a shared long history of coexistence in Somali peninsula (in horn of Africa),

 

British Somaliland and Italian somaliland are two former colonies now a irrelevant history

 

Somali people of former British colony never had a separate history apart from other Somali people in the north and south Somalia before colonial era

 

People of Awdal had long history of close association with Djibouti

 

People of Sool sanaag and Buuhoodle had long history of close association with northeast Somalia, and togdheer more than Hargeysa or Barbara

 

And when we speak about north Somalia that includes the areas of both presently Somaliland and Puntland

 

The idea of British Somaliland (Foreign product)only born in Berlin Conference in 1883-1884 in theory, and came to end in 1960, there was never a border between the people of sool and bari before british before the dark colonial era

 

To divide Somali people along irrelevant colonial borders is absurd and unjust, I believe, thank God that have long gone

 

 

In the end its comes down to not Sool and Saang for you, its the secession aspect that you cant take,

Thats completely false and it only shows a narrow and subjective view

 

For me, the issue of SSC is very crucial; I strongly believe my home region (Sool Sanaag and cayn) as an integral part of Somalia, because I care my country Somalia and my homeregoin SCC

 

Regarding, the secession its NOT my business, whoever wants to secede can do so without interfering my home region SSC

 

you bring up the pandra box issue,

its not main concern for me, but in real world International community cares, even Ethiopia that wishes to keep Somalia weak and divided is not ready for pandora box

 

the world body the AU, EU, IGAD, USA, TFG in the end will have to sit down with somaliland

the world body the AU, EU, IGAD, USA, TFG in the end will have to sit down with North central region (SSC) as well

 

 

ANYWAYS,

 

Brother all day we going circles, and every time we are back to square one

 

Therefore the core of our argument is as follows;

 

You telling me, its pro union camp that don’t want to let Northwest leave the union

 

Well I am saying as well, its pro secession camp that don’t want to let Sool, Sanaag, and Cayn[buuhoodle] to choose their way and remain united with Somalia

 

 

We have discussed enough, how we can solve, and coexist peacefully?

 

Bring forward ideas

[Taleexi]

Originally posted by SomaliThinker:

Brother, Mansa Munsa this subject in this argument is over jumpin in this late is no need lool. In the case of Saaxil the whole region as whole choose to do this in the case of Budhoole its only one section in the region that choose to create it not the whole region as whole old boy.

What whole region is there to talk of my dear?, wasn't Berbera a district, entrusted a capital of a region afterall?

[SomaliThinker]

Mansa Munsa, i see that you love to debate my brother but i thought i already resolved this debate issue with you, but i guess not. So lets start back ok lol. On the issue of Sool and Sang i already told you i had no Issue if they choose to leave i just said that areas in Sang that suppported Somaliland should be left and areas in Sool who support somaliland would be kept and on the issue of Buhoodle i said if that area did not want to be in Somaliland to let them go. Trust one thing about somalilanders is that we are very bright group and unlike some unionist we will see that if sections of what you term SSC dont want to be part of somaliland then peaceful solution to issue most be made were the people in those regions rights are respected, the only thing i ask from the Unionst side is the same. You also said that "The current Hargeysa-based-admin (So-called Somaliland) is only northwest and is one-clan project" thats not true we in Adwal and areas of Sang so please brother be accuratae with saying things ok.

 

 

On the issue of secession you say "Regarding, the secession its NOT my business, whoever wants to secede can do so" but then you through in this comment "its not main concern for me, but in real world International community cares, even Ethiopia that wishes to keep Somalia weak and divided is not ready for pandora box" lool

 

Let me ask you this question my brother forget about SSC lets say that region is resolved, do you as somali and do you think SOMALIA will allow Somaliland to leave. lol

 

If SSC areas want to be a state then i agree with you that they have to sit down with TFG and AU, like Somaliland lol.

 

The politics of somalialnd is bright the issue of SSC will be resolved peacefully i beleive that, no people will be forced i hope you have the same view for people in Sang in support of us as i am view of groups in those regions in support of Somalia.

 

Your last point is good one how do we solve, and coexist peacefully? I think its through talk, clan elders meeting and talking, there are alot of inter-marriages between our clans so at the heart of the matter we are brothers the issue is the direction we want to take our people, this all deepens on world involvment in our regions, also what happens in Ethiopia and Somalia affects our views so with all these factors the best aspect is to not kill each other and to respect each others views

[Liibaan]

somalilanders is that we are very bright group and unlike some unionist

 

False and bias statement

 

You saying we are right, and other are wrong, you just self-righteous and not fair

 

 

Somaliland militia is invading Xudun (sool) as we speaking, that invalidates your argument

 

i ask from the Unionst side is the same.

Well we ask the same as well

 

Let me ask you this question my brother forget about SSC lets say that region is resolved, do you as somali and do you think SOMALIA will allow Somaliland to leave. Lol

Somalia will never allow somali british colony, because its irrelevent maybe northwest if they stop their aggression agaisnt ssc

 

Your last point is good one how do we solve, and coexist peacefully? I think its through talk, clan elders meeting and talking, there are alot of inter-marriages between our clans so at the heart of the matter we are brothers the issue is the direction we want to take our people, this all deepens on world involvment in our regions

Good points, I think our people can agree and reach solution that should satisfy both northwest and ssc if given chance

[SomaliThinker]

Garaad Caanood, i agree with the last point of yours my brother.