Should Puntland declare independance if the Kenya talks fail?

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Salaan...

 

Originally posted by Samurai Warrior:

MMA – could you be good enough as to provide us with your understanding of what “nationalism” entails please? Perhaps then, we shall have been in a better position to engage in a healthy discourse. I ask the question for it appears we might possess understanding of variant linear with regards to the notion of “nationalism”.

If you really want my personal definition of Soomaali nationalism or wadanimo, this is as of:

 

From Raas Kambooni to Raas Caseyr to Gaarisa to Dira Dhawa to Jabuuti and EVERY land between those cities and towns, and that are settled, established and inhabited by Soomaalis, to me, is the ultimate nationalist dream. And that, to me, is our ultimate salvation. You might recapitulate in one defined word: Flag. What our blue flag stands is for my fighting, albeit politically.

 

An implausible dream, you might think giddily. However--and heey, kamoon--that is my definition of Soomaali nationalism.

 

It's one thing to be a Somali nationalists, but to what extent? Will you force it down the throats of people weather they like it or not? Will you start a war to realize the aim of a united Somalia? Will you whip out an entire group who oppose your vision and want to leave? What price are we willing to pay for Somali Unity? How much blood will be shed?

Bariyoow, widaayoow, waxaas dhan maloo baahno. Violence walaa force, hal wax kaliya aa loo baahan yahay: Educate them about qabiil and its arrogance and superiority side they believe it is. Educate them about the equity of Soomaali people, and how equal every qabiil is. Educate them about importance of unity. The mother of all troubles in Soomaali case is and was qabiil. The ignorance of some supporting their region {read "qabiil"} by compromising the Soomaali unity. We need the SYLs of yesterday in today's world. In the West, they say keep the separation of state and church, mine would be separation of qabiil and dowlad.

 

P.S.: Why don't you call me Mr. Soomaali instead of "Mr. Mog"?? Or rather, in your case, Mr. Boosaaso would do fine for me.

________________

 

Macsalaama.

[Blessed]

Libaas Sanka Taabte

Thats good to hear cousin. I knew I can depend on Barwaqo, waa shaqaale fir fircoon lol

 

 

Samarouni

Walaal, I don't know why I am getting a lesson on the politics of Puntland, my response was only directed at the 'puntland' banner caririers of this forum. Who seem as I said, a little undecided on the Somaliweyn issue.

 

Bari Nomad

 

Must you quote -unquote my every little sentence?

Anyways, I am not the biggest fan of the UDUB adminstration so I'm not gonna bother responding to your statements regarding Mr Riyaale and his activities. He to me is like Yaasir Arafat a complete moron who represents a concept that benefits his people. Shame about their tactics :rolleyes:

 

 

Oh, just out of curiosity - what do think of Punland and Sland forming one state - would that work?

As LST said it's always good when Somali peoples join together *peacefully*. It would be one step closer to Somali Unity. But the leaderships and peoples seem to have diverging goals at the moment.

 

Ahaaa! My sentiments exactly, so in the mean time ya'll have no case against Slands stance on 'unity' - it isn't the time for it as you said. Why the contradiction markaa?

Why do we criticise a region for looking out for it's best interest whilst questioning wether another region should follow suite?

[Ibtilo]

Great reply's guys.

 

But Somalilanders cant stand Abdullahi Yusuf so how in the world are they going to join with Puntland?

 

I personally I stand the bia...sh

 

He talks alot of bs about Somaliland, I think the everyday people of Somaliland would vote that down in a heart beat.

 

Besides, I dont think many Puntlanders would like it either.

 

I think each area should work on itself, thats it.

 

Why should we be in one big country, it certainly didnt work out the first time.

 

Walalo lets face it, Somalia is a failed state, its not just anything its a fact.

 

Look who is trying to get power, the Warlords.

 

Somaliland doesnt have time for that.

 

I personally would rather have three peacefull Somali countries, rather than one big killing machine, because lets face it, Somaliwayne what was it really, for our people in Somaliland and many people in Somalia now it was and is a big killing machine.

 

-Ibtilo

[miles-militis]

Ameenah – walaalo mine was simply to set the stage for an informed dialogue, not to lecture you on the politics of Puntland. It was for all as some exhibited total lack of grasp of the subject matter.

 

And by the way, I always thought Puntland, its politics, and Puntland banner waving nomads were very much the same camp. Could I be wrong? I like how you chewed and spitted my screen name. Nice one.

[BN]

Originally posted by Ameenah:

 

Ahaaa! My sentiments exactly, so in the mean time ya'll have no case against Slands stance on 'unity' - it isn't the time for it as you said. Why the contradiction markaa?

Why do we criticise a region for looking out for it's best interest whilst questioning wether another region should follow suite?

First, I speak for myself and no one else--OK. As for being "undecided on somaliweyn", i think that everyone has a different opinion-and opinions are not rigid. Everyone Somali(I think) supports Somaliweyn, but may differ on the means to attain it.

 

Second, let's clarify because there is a difference between NW Somalia and the Somaliland Protectorate(Colony). And by "Slands stance", i'll take that to mean the north west. If the people in the NW *really* want to seperate I doubt anyone can force them to do otherwise. Nor do I think it would be wise to do so since it will lead(most likely) to more violence. Reconciliation between Somalis should be done through peaceful means. I think that once there is peace, stability and government in the rest of Somalia--the NW ppl as well as leaders will choose to stay as a part of a Federal Somalia. With every state and region controlling their own internal affairs--similar to the current level of independence of local governments in Somalia.

 

But how can we really judge the aspirations of the ppl in the NW? Surely you dont really believe the 97% 'referendum' produced by the Hargeisa government, do you? I should hope not. Can you please tell me why you think the peoples in Sool, Sanag, and Cayn[buuhoodle] regions did not participate in:

 

1)Referendum 2001

2)Local elections 2002

3)Presidential Elections 2003

 

In the recent International Crisis Group report it stated about the 2001 referendum "In some respects the referendum results were misleading. The much lower turnout for subsequent elections casts doubt upon the turnout for the referendum. And the 97 per cent “yes” is not an accurate representation of support for independence

among Somalilanders." Pg. 18

 

And about Sool, Sanag and Cayn participation "In the Harti-inhabited parts of eastern Somaliland, the turnout was especially low – suggesting to one team of international observers (probably correctly) a local boycott of the referendum." Pg. 19

 

And on their participation in the 2003 elections "The NEC was well aware of the problem, having sent several missions to Harti areas in the weeks before the poll. With less than 72 hours remaining before the election was scheduled to take place, the commission reached the decision that there would be no voting in Harti areas."

 

On who controls Sool "Following his abortive visit to Laas Caanood, Rayale gave orders that certain[read: all] Somaliland officials should be withdrawn to the nearby town of Caynabo[bordering Toghdeer], ostensibly in order to avoid provoking a further clash. The resulting vacuum permitted the Puntland leadership to expand its presence in the town and for at least a week before the presidential poll, militia loyal to Abdillahi Yusuf had been pouring into the eastern regions with the aim of disrupting the election. “Puntland has brought a lot

of forces here”, a Laas Caanood resident told ICG. “They want to prevent a single ballot being cast[in Sool], and there are insufficient Somaliland forces here to prevent that”. Pg. 35

[miles-militis]

I thought the issue was debated and put to rest a while back.

 

Whilst the gridlock and indeterminate status of the peace conference is being accounted, no wide spread discourse, implied or otherwise concerning Puntland’s desire to secede had been put forth amongst Somalis in Puntland, at least to the best of my knowledge - with the exception of allpuntland's of course. The intellectuals might have entertained the matter, but the leadership along with the general populace are unwaveringly obstinate in their political convictions which derive impetus from the principal nationalistic ardour that is not easily dislodged. Whilst people of Puntland fully embrace the Somali nationalism fervour, surprised I would not be had the hypothesis of throwing in the towel, so to speak, had been assessed judging from the situation in Mogadishu.

 

Further, I am yet to come across anyone from that part of Somalia insinuating any such conception, god only knows the Somali case is as much frustrating as it is intriguing, thusly would remain receptive to all ideas at this juncture.

 

Cheers.

[Saalixa]

Mob Deep i thought that it was already declaring independence.Are they confused themselfs now?Somalis are so quickwitted and plan so much but don't do any action.and so they never make the right decisons just like the peace conference thats been a failure.Things were decided too fast and now they face issues.

[Qudhac]

should we stay with somalia, should we follow somaliland, should we merge with somaliland, do I sense bit of confusion here

 

 

surely after years of screaming at somaliland for abandoning the so called "somaliweyn" concept it would seem odd to then follow its steps, but then hey its not the first time somaliland has been used as model,

 

a famous song comes to mind that goes;

 

Follow The Leader

 

Follow the leader

 

follow the leader.

 

 

loooooooooooool :cool:

[Gabbal]

A more appropriate piece is.

 

What Leader??

 

What Leader??

 

What Leader?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

In all respects, "Somalilanders" had better realize that trampling of on the situation in the rest of Somalia will get them NO WHERE. What year of "oh wait and see if we get recogniton this time" are we in?