What Political system would suit the Somalis and why?

[Truth Seeker]

Sorry about the number of posts but i thought they were relevant to the topic in discussion

[Yusufaddie]

I would like to ask the poser of this question and the members- If a system can be agreed on in this tread will you all support it and how would you be able to implement it?

[Paragon]

Personally, I would think the solution to our problems lies within Islam. But for those who get iritated at the mentioning of the name: Islam, I say, 'La kum Diinukum Waliya Diin' - to you your religion, to us ours.

[NGONGE]

^^ Of course they do, J11.

But the question was how and which interpretation if Islam? Is it the Khilafah as Truth Seeker and Yusuf state or is it The Shari’ah law on a small scale (Somali scale). Which “madhab†would you prefer to follow when you say “ Lakom diinikom wa liya deen�

 

There are lots of different interpretation of Islam and lots of ways of applying it. For example, the Salafis believe that the best and most correct system of government is ISLAM (as do most other Muslims) but in Kuwait, the Salafis are part of the “democratic†process! It seems to have been approved by some of the top scholars. So, as you can see, we all agree that Islam has the potential of being the best form of government but which Islam are we talking about? I’m not asking for a big piece on the subject, a summary will suffice.

[OG_Girl]

NGONGE, you just said what I wanted to say.

 

Hope J11 and other answer these question." Lakom denakom o leyah deen"? So you suggestion any one who will have nothing to do with it --leave ?

I think the opposition has a different idea on that .

 

Just Note: can you imagine how many versions of Sharia law there will be ..and as far as a Khalifa - the last three were killed because "someone " didnt like their version of things .

 

Another reason things wont be easy is because muslims have new many different views so they will just fight each other like they do now.

 

Just think about it.

 

PS: I am with Islam , BUT how?

 

Salam

[Yusufaddie]

Salaam i would like to paste from our constitution the articles concerning the judiciary. however they are not on this PC. Please note that the madhaahib are not a problem as each province follows the madhab which is dominant in the locality. Quite frankly that is an established principle which is hundreds of years old. i believe somalia is maliki isn't it? the the laws Hukm Sharia' will be derived from Maliki usuul. For each province there is a wal'i who is appointed by the Amir and in each province is made up of various imarats(districts) and each district has an elected leader. These leaders sits in the Majlis us Shura to voice any concerns whatever they might be. I think the most confusing aspect of the khilafah state to you all would be the financial and the property ownership policies as they are not practiced today. Please note that if a country is 100% muslim that is not suffice to call it an islamic state.

[Yusufaddie]

Salaam also J11 please edit that post. Lakum Deenakum.... is used towards unbelievers and i don't thik you were calling anyone in here so.

Please one must realize that the speech in Islam is very sacred and one must not just say things because it rolls off the tongue nicely.

[Truth Seeker]

These Madhhab differences are blown out of all proportion, there are a couple of issues that need to be made about these:

 

1) Firstly they are all valid from Islam

2) The greatest period of Islam you had these Madhhabs and there were no problems in the state.

3) The Khaleef will not adopt a madhhab in rituals this upto each individual. However on the societal level they will e.g. what constitutes divorce 3 in 1 or 1 in 3 (as was the case with Abu Bakr and Umar).

 

These are none issues that due to the decline in the Ummah they have been blown out of all proportion as an example I pray with Shafii brothers, maliki etc... absolutely no issues because we all understand that they are legitimate.

 

The solution is Khilafah and that does not mean that we are left to decide how to implement it rather Islam details this - taking part (as a method to establish the state) in kufr politics is not a valid method because it is something that is categorically haram.

 

Read the Prophets (saw) seerah to see how the state was established then look at the methodology of Hizb ut Tahrir and the clarity of the method will become clear and show how it relates to the actions of the Prophet (saw).

[NGONGE]

Truth Seeker,

 

As you rightly state, these “madhabs†are only minor details that are blown out of all proportion. I understand your party’s plans and agree with them (in the long term). But, as I have been telling you in the past, not everyone is in agreement on the ways and hows of Khilafah. As you yourself admit, such things are due to the decline in the Ummah. Wouldn’t you need to have an aware Ummah before trying to implement an Islamic rule? Not everyone needs to be aware but at least a significant number should. The rest can ride along in that tidal wave.

 

At the moment, everyone says that the best system of government is Islam (according to their own understanding of it and the ways it should be implemented). You’re different, you’re saying it’s the Khilafa and you thankfully give a detailed plan of how that will be achieved. But, I still think you should focus on explaining and reconciling the differences in perception and interpretation rather than banging on about the Khilafa (that message has been received loud and clear in that respect, saaxib).

[QUANTUM LEAP]

Well I’m not sure if we can come to a mutual agreement as we do spend most times arguing about stuff that is of no importance. However, many societies do come to conclusive collective mutual agreements. I would love to see us here come to some kind of middle ground.

 

Bro Yusuf I’m sure the point here is to brainstorm and see what suits us as Somalis and why we think that this would work for both this generation and the next generation and hopeful develop out country too.

 

Since Somalis base most of their arguments and beliefs on cultural grounds we have no choice but to consider some of the finer points and mix it with the sharia and ofcouse whatever we can pick from the western/modernist ideologies. That way we would have a combination that wouldn’t alienate anyone. The cultural lobby would be pleased; the Islamic lobby would feel some justice and ofcouse the modernists would find it liveable.

 

One thing we have to understand as Somalis is we neither here nor there in terms of religion. Call it being uninformed but I do know that a lot of Somalis would chose cultural heritage over the Islam at least that’s what I see when I look back at the way most of the leaders cheat their way into power and how they deal with their own populace. Infact one can already see that the present parliament to be is solely based on clanism than anything else and that’s why I say that culture seems to be far stronger than anything else in the political mainstream of Somalia.

 

We have to work for the good of the larger Somali population and not what we selfishly want to see as the right political system. We need a system that is inclusive and caters for the needs of the everyday Farax and Xalimo and not only the fat cats.

[Truth Seeker]

“Wouldn’t you need to have an aware Ummah before trying to implement an Islamic rule? Not everyone needs to be aware but at least a significant number should. The rest can ride along in that tidal wave.â€

 

Again we look at the Prophet (saw) seerah to see the Method the Prophet (saw) used and we can see that a public opinion was created whereby people wanted “Islam†to rule over them – this public opinion was very vague in detail as the majority were non Muslim and did not know the implications of this.

 

What we have in the Muslim world today is a growing sentiment (public opinion) for Islam because every other form of government has been tried and failed namely, democracy, monarchys, dictatorships, etc… Yes the vast majority do not know the ruling system nor the practical laws that would be applied but they have the vague understanding that Islam will solve there problems. This is all that is required. Again this is not an issue Islam leaves to the mind rather it is what the Islamic sources say on this matter.

 

“At the moment, everyone says that the best system of government is Islam (according to their own understanding of it and the ways it should be implemented).â€

 

Again the opinion is there, yet I disagree as to what you infer that everyone has a different view of it – the Islamic ruling system is unique it is the Khilafah (you can call it Imaarah but it entails the same). The issue is the structure and form the state will take has not been promoted by anyone from my understanding it is only Hizb ut Tahrir that has detailed this system and most importantly the evidences to support this from the Quran and Sunnah. Nobody else has been able to do this (I welcome anyone to correct me on this).

 

More importantly they are the only ones that have provided a detailed method to allow this to happen again sourced from the Quran and Sunnah. The other so called proponents are vague and generally do not follow an ijtihad (a valid legal opinion deduced from the text). So the ones that proclaim have iman and then Allah (swt) will grant the victory do not provide the practical steps to enable this – this is vague and is not an ijtihad. It would be like me telling you, you have to pray but you just move around abit, this is to vague and does not detail the entire step by step process.

 

In contrast the Ijtihad the Hizb has adopted details every aspect to this method and again for every single aspect has the sharia evidence as an example it has a 186 point constitution in place for adoption by the state and for every single point has the relevant evidences and it has published these. I have yet to see any group claim the same.

 

“You’re different, you’re saying it’s the Khilafa and you thankfully give a detailed plan of how that will be achieved. But, I still think you should focus on explaining and reconciling the differences in perception and interpretation rather than banging on about the Khilafa (that message has been received loud and clear in that respect, saaxib).â€

 

I hope I have made some headway here by stating the issues with other views but if you have a specific question then I can try and find out…

[Paragon]

OG-girl and Yousuf.... sorry but its with Somali that I write, not Arabic. And, I am directing the Ayah towards none-believers. I don't think it takes a genious to figure that out.

[Yusufaddie]

Ngonge that is why i asked if anyone in this forum would work earnestly for the khilafah state if we agree. This means the intereste dperson seeking the knowledge with the help of the Ulema. The reason why i ask if anyone would work for that is that one of the maladies the ummah has suffered since the fall of the state is a lack of effectiveness and self will. We have been striped of our honour and dignity that many few of us would actually get up and do something the change our situation. Rather we today prefer to sit back and comment. Personally i think that is very hypocritical and does nto befit a muslim.

So hence i am asking again, " Are there anyone in this forum who would honestly swear to work earnestly for the establishment of the khilafah?"

[Yusufaddie]

I'm not suprised. this is just another link that goes silent when the question about khilafah is asked. Why r u Somalis if not so afraid of the Khilafah or even talkign about it?

[Truth Seeker]

Office of the

Official Spokesman

of Hizb ut-Tahrir

 

In Pakistan

Suite # 11, Moeen Centre,

20 Abbot Rd., Lahore. Pakistan

Office No. 0426314103-4

Ph. No. 0300 945 0325

No.: PR04044

Date: 18th Sep 2004

 

PRESS RELEASE

 

The rulers are not only intellectually bankrupt but also coward and devoid of any dignity

 

The Musharraf government has clearly demonstrated that not only is it intellectually bankrupt but it also lacks courage and dignity. One can gauge their intellectual shallowness from the fact that instead of countering Hizb ut-Tahrir's intellectual struggle with better and stronger thought they are confronting it with arrests, torture and imprisonment. The Musharraf government has been carrying out a string of cowardly and lowly acts to harass Hizb ut-Tahrir.

 

On 15th September, in Lahore, the government arrested the brother of Ehsan Jigranvi who is a member of Hizb ut-Tahrir. On the same day the elderly father of another member, Asif Iftikhar, was also arrested from Pir Makki. Then on 17th September, around 4:30pm, the police forced their way into Hakim Jagranvi's house without a legal warrant or lady police officers to accompany them. They abducted the father of Saad Jigranvi, Habib ur-Rahman Jigranvi, who is in his sixties, from his room and took him to an unknown location. Habib ur-Rahman Jigranvi is a heart patient and prays his daily prayers while sitting down. What could be a better proof of the cowardice of the government that they are arresting the elderly fathers and brothers of Hizb members to stop the establishment of Islam though they are not even members of Hizb ut-Tahrir. It is the height of shamelessness that the government didn't even find it necessary to employ the services of lady police officers while entering a house whose mothers and daughters adhere to the Islamic dress code. The womenfolk of the Jigranvi family, like other Muslim women, hate the type of immoral and shameless culture which Musharraf wants to promote in the country. The government's response to the war on Iraq and its operations in Wana has already depicted a clear picture as to how sacred the rulers consider Islam and the lives of the Muslims. But the recent incidents have also proven that the rulers give no heed to the honour of our mothers and sisters or the sanctity of Chadar and Chardiwary (home). The fact of the matter is that Musharraf and his cronies consider a pat on the back from the US administration and slavery to the imperialists, the biggest success in this life and the hereafter.

 

For the last few months Hizb ut-Tahrir has been carrying out public protests throughout the country in which the public interest and participation has terrified the government. The recent raids and arrests are an outcome of the same fear. Hizb ut-Tahrir is the only real opposition in the country who not only wants to get rid of

 

Musharraf but also wants to uproot the Capitalist system in its entirety. It is for this reason that the imperialist powers and their agents are not willing to tolerate Hizb's peaceful struggle. People are also fed up with the current rotten system, which is the legacy of the British Raj. People's aversion for the system can be gauged from their lack of interest and participation in the electioneering process. People are impatiently waiting for a new system and leadership; and by the Grace of Allah, Hizb ut-Tahrir has all the capability to fill the vacuum for leadership and alternative system.

 

We challenge the government to respond to Hizb ut-Tahrir's political thought with intellectual and rational arguments rather than emotional outbursts or oppression. We challenge the rulers to bring a system better than the Islamic economic system and Islamic ruling system i.e. the Khilafah. We want to inform the government that the work of Hizb ut-Tahrir cannot be stopped by state oppression, torture or imprisonment. The Islamic thought is a light which cannot be extinguished by oppression rather tyranny acts like fuel to fire.

 

Members of Hizb ut-Tahrir, all over the world, are sacrificing their lives and wealth for the establishment of the Khilafah and members here in Pakistan will not shy away to do the same. If the likes of the oppressive Karimov, tyrant Saddam and persecutor Hafiz al-Asad failed to stop Hizb then how can a lowly coward like Pervaiz

 

Musharraf stop Hizb ut-Tahrir. The Khilafah is a reality which Al-Sadiq and Al-Ameen (s.a.a.w) has given us glad tidings of and American agents like Musharraf, Karazi and Allawi cannot belie the Messenger of Allah.

 

Naveed Butt - The official Spokesman of Hizb ut-Tahrir in Pakistan