What Political system would suit the Somalis and why?

[QUANTUM LEAP]

I believe we as Somalis have never had aspecific political system that suits us as a people and neither do we use the sharia as a model of gavernance. My observations are that... we as somalis use a model based on family and clan more than a wider system that focuses on country and nationalistic ideals.

 

Please feel free make your point and as had as it may be try stay within the confines of the topic.

[Rahima]

All systems beside the Shariica will lead to failure and disaster.

 

Man made laws are bound for ruin, Allah knows that which is best for His creations, and hence has given us the Shariica. Therefore if we know what is good for us we should adopt it as our system of governance.

 

Anything else, as far as a Muslim is concerned is nonsense.

[QUANTUM LEAP]

Sister much as you would like that system to be used, it has never worked in any of the Islamic countries that it was bestowed upon. The human race are weak and follable and so they create asystem that always suits the main players n hurts the grassroots. I wouldnt necessarilly agree with your suggestion that other systems are doomed to failure. Many political systems work well albeit them not being unislamic in nature. So Im wondering how you came up with your point of view having not seen a successful country using the islamic sharia.

[NGONGE]

I see the argument for an Islamic system being repeated in several threads on this website! Nobody seems to give details of how this Shariica system works though. It would be very nice if we could get an explanation of such a system given to us. :rolleyes:

 

As for QL’s question, we’ve gone a long way but I reckon the best system of government for Somalis is a brutal dictatorship. We’re at our best when we have something to moan about.

[N.O.R.F]

Limited self governance for each region under the control of the regional leader (elected elder) who in turn answers to the local mayor/governor (elected elder) who answers to the president.

 

Local issues, local ppl decide. National issues local ppl have a voice through the elected elders.

 

If you picture a company organisational structure with communication lines running from the bottom (elected elders) to the managing director(president). Through monthly meetings and teams geered toward building a stable and prosporous society, slowly but surely we shall overcome.

[Rahima]

QUANTUM LEAP

 

Brother, as Muslim I cannot support any system besides that which was revealed by Allah for to do so would be kufr.

 

Allah says in so many places in the Qur’an that to rule by other than Allahs laws is disbelief:

 

"And he who does not rule by what Allaah sent down, it is they who are the disbelievers." (5:44)

 

"And he who does not rule by what Allaah sent down, it is they who are the wrongdoers." (5:45)

 

"And he who does not rule by what Allaah sent down, it is they who are the rebellious." (5:47)

 

And as for success and failure, it all depends on how you define failure and how you define success .

 

But I do agree with you, mankind is at loss . At the moment, we should be concentrating on getting back to the basics of Islam, but this does not negate the point that I cannot believe in any other system other than that sanctioned by Allah (that is all i was trying to say).

 

 

I see the argument for an Islamic system being repeated in several threads on this website! Nobody seems to give details of how this Shariica system works though. It would be very nice if we could get an explanation of such a system given to us.

Brother, this is a discussion. We are hear to learn from one another, at least I am. We don’t need to continue to make snide remarks at one another. This is not the first time you seem to be doing just that. If you disagree with the opinions of a user then make respectful logical arguments .

 

Aside from that, the shariica is whole system. One cannot go into all the intricacies of it all, which particular issues are you wanting to know about?

 

If it may be that no one here has the answers, then I believe it is your responsibility as a Muslim to pursue that knowledge. Do not expect that everything will be dealt to you on a silver platter . There is a whole array of Islamic books concerning this topic, search them, read them and then I’m sure you will understand how the Shariica system should work.

[OG_Girl]

We all know Allah's rule is best for us but please as NGONGE said show me one successful Islamic state so we all will go and bepart of it?

 

Only shooting for Islam doesn't make it reality into ground!!

 

I am just realistic here. Somali never follow any Rules let alone Islam.

 

Salam

[Rahima]

We all know Allah's rule is best for us but please as NGONGE said show me one successful Islamic state so we all will go and bepart of it?

Like i've said in the other thread, there is no existing Islamic state at this point in Islamic history, however it does not mean that there was never one and never can be again. Islamic history is a testimony to the successes which can be achieved with the shariica.

 

And anyway, how does this point relate to anything that was said ? The question i believe was what we thought to be the best system for us as Somalis, so naturally as Muslims i said the shariica? Am i wrong :confused: ?

 

Do i think it is achievable in the future? Yes of course. Do i think it will be anytime in the near future? Probably not. Why? Because we fail to understand the basics. The prophet spend 13 years teaching the kalima. We need to build our foundations, but nevertheless, this does not mean that the shariica is not best.

 

 

I am just realistic here. Somali never follow any Rules let alone Islam.

Let's hope that that is not the case.

 

Inshallah, although i know that any government formed will not establish the shariica, i will still support it of course (be he any of the warlords who are vowing for the posititon), for this is what is the correct position (as is said by the scholars).

 

Inshallah in time though, our people will develop better understanding of the diin and the shariica will naturally follow.

[N.O.R.F]

Rahima, can the two forms of governance not be inter-twined in such a way to serve prupose to what can be achieved?

 

Now i'm no expert on Sharia but:

 

For example, if some one is elected by the ppl to rule by Sheria and install the necesarry framework in order to achieve as such, with elected local elders, all aiming to acheive this same purpose,does this constitute to being a man made system? or can a Sheria system be achieved through a man made framework?

[OG_Girl]

I don't know if you right or not, my self I am not sure if I am right either.

 

Hope is another case but I don't see it any thing. My self I would love to be ruled by Islam but hey what Islam you want? My Islam or yours, or NGONGE's?

 

My self you can't come to me with Salafia or Ahlul Sunnah wal jama'a.

 

Salam

[NGONGE]

Rahima,

My snide remarks (if that’s how you decided to view them) were nothing but a question. I’ve seen this argument about Islamic systems of government being peddled about this forum for a while (seen it from you only twice, seen it from others many times). Like I said, it would be helpful if we could get your “interpretation†of this system of government. Don’t assume that we already know. After all, you don’t expect me to agree or disagree to your interpretation of this system of government when I don’t even know what it is, do you?

 

As for reading the books, that’s something I’ll probably do in my spare time. It does not concern this discussion. In this discussion you made an assertion, now justify that assertion with an explanation of why you think the Islamic system of government is the right one. Don’t go on the defensive and take every comment made as an attack. It wasn’t an attack on you personally. It was an attack on the sort of lazy comments we seem to get on this forum when the topic is Islam. Arguments are made but are not backed up with any reasoning or evidence.

 

Islam is the best way of life and governing! Hmmm, really? How? Why? Why do you assume that everyone is on the same boat as you and knows what you’re talking about?

 

Again, this is not directed at you personally, sister. If you check other threads, I’ve already asked someone else the same question, twice! For some reason, I never seem to get any replies

[Xarago]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

As for QL’s question, we’ve gone a long way but I reckon the best system of government for Somalis is a brutal dictatorship. We’re at our best when we have something to moan about.

Now why do you include yourself if I may ask?

[NGONGE]

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by NGONGE:

As for QL’s question, we’ve gone a long way but I reckon the best system of government for Somalis is a brutal dictatorship. We’re at our best when we have something to moan about.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Now why do you include yourself if I may ask?

I'm not a great fan of our president, saaxib

[Rahima]

with an explanation of why you think the Islamic system of government is the right one

Islam is the best way of life and governing! Hmmm, really? How? Why? Why do you assume that everyone is on the same boat as you and knows what you’re talking about?

As for your first point brother, I am a Muslim, hence I believe in the Qur’an and Sunnah of Rasuallah. Having said that, for the reason that Allah states that to rule by other than His laws is disbelief, then I know that Islamic system of government is the right one. If I acknowledge that Allah is my creator, I acknowledge that He knows that which is best for me as an individual and a member of the Ummah and Allah tells me that the Islamic system of government is best for His creation (as is evident in the Qur’an).

 

He said: "O you who believe, obey Allaah and obey His Messenger, and the people in authority among you. And if you dispute over anything, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger if you really believe in Allaah and the Last Day, that is best in terms of consequences." (4:59)

 

It’s simple and logical really .

 

Allaah says: "O you who believe! Uphold Islam in its entity (as a whole)."

 

As for knowing what the Islamic system of government is, like I said brother, it is a wide topic :confused: . May be if we narrowed it down, we could all attempt to explain it to each other (with proofs). Personally I believe the nomad Nur would be best at that . He's far more knowledgable than i could ever hope to be, and inshallah may be even correct me on points which i may of have erred.

 

After all, you don’t expect me to agree or disagree to your interpretation of this system of government when I don’t even know what it is, do you?

I don’t believe I have volunteered any of my own interpretations. Lay men and women cannot interpret. My deficiencies I believe are well apparent .

 

As for the snide remark, if I read you wrong, then I apologise walaal . The rolling eyes and I suppose construction of the sentence was somewhat off putting for me. It seems I was wrong.

 

Rahima, can the two forms of governance not be inter-twined in such a way to serve prupose to what can be achieved?

If one acknowledges brother that the Shariica is that sanctioned by Allah (and they believe in Allah), then naturally they must believe that it is a perfect system (with no deficiencies) and therefore does not need it to be inter-twined with any other systems. You can’t better that which is already perfect can you?

 

For example, if some one is elected by the ppl to rule by Sheria and install the necesarry framework in order to achieve as such, with elected local elders, all aiming to acheive this same purpose,does this constitute to being a man made system? or can a Sheria system be achieved through a man made framework?

Brother I can’t really say to be honest. But what I do know is that we need to take steps to achieve the ultimate goal. It may be that these steps are not those ordered by Allah, but we must work towards that ordered by Allah. This at least is what I’ve read and this is why I support any Somali government, for any government is better than chaos.

 

On the other hand, whose to say that the example you have given opposes the shariica. The shariica acknowledges local leaders all representives of the Amir in their designated area. Is this what you were reffering to brother?

 

 

My self you can't come to me with Salafia or Ahlul Sunnah wal jama'a.

You’re right sister, I am a Sunni Muslim and you proclaim to be Shiica. We in essence even disagree on some of the basic fundamentals of Islam (assuming you adhere to the teachings of shiicaism), so the best system for Somalia would not even be much of a concern. People can only debate on issues if they agree upon the authenticity of the proof which they bring.

[OG_Girl]

You’re right sister, I am a Sunni Muslim and you proclaim to be Shiica. We in essence even disagree on some of the basic fundamentals of Islam (assuming you adhere to the teachings of shiicaism), so the best system for Somalia would not even be much of a concern. People can only debate on issues if they agree upon the authenticity of the proof which they bring.

 

Now we understood each other. So you are Sunnah I am Shia and we still both claiming we both Muslims.

 

Hmmm where we go from here ....please don't tell me like brother Salafi that you would ship me to Karbala cause that will be begining of Civil war..joke!!

 

Salam