Sakina, An Invitation For A Discussion

[Kashafa]

Asalamu Alaikum, all

 

Looks like this Topic is about to fizzle out without even getting started. I will add my two cents once I get my hands on Kitaab Al-tawheed, but for now, Let's keep this topic alive. In age of misinformation, with labels being thrown left and right(Wahhabi/Extremist/Takfeeri), calm and collected discussion is the only way out.

 

A few observations,

 

We're all grown people here. A percieved(incorrectly mostly) veiled attack or sly back-handed comment won't hurt us. but if we respond to it, it will derail the discuission. So for the sake of this important discussion, I suggest no response to a personal attack or offensive comment. Just keep it moving with responding only relevant points.

 

Nur, I hope you will lay out your views about Mohamed ibn Abdul-Wahab and his book Kitaab Al-Taheed. and respond to various accusations of his critcs

 

Sakina, I hope you'll be more flexible and continue in the discussion.

[Haddad]

Originally posted by Papamaine513:

I will add my two cents once I get my hands on Kitaab Al-tawheed...

It's freely available online. Two links:

1 2

[Kashafa]

Good lookin out, Haddad. and a virtual shout-out going out to Islamicweb, very resourceful and well laid-out

[Final_Say]

salam all;

 

“Jazmine I suggest you start your own research instead of repeating what you are told. You might be happy to blindly follow the crowd but I am not.â€

 

Looool; I don’t know what else to do, but laugh; thank you for the suggestion, but you’re a bit too late with it, as for the second party of that sentence; you show me nothing new, that u have not heard before, nothing is new, no new inventions, I have heard everything that you have said so far from different people, so from where I’m sitting you too follow a crowed, just a different sort of crowed, so unless your gonna tell me something that has never been, which your not because any research that you have been done, has been based on other peoples work, then that statement applies to me and you;

also you seem to take the "i know it all approach", so hence why u insist that you follow ur self, and would never listen to anyone else; where as i can admit if i'm wrong, for it is not about winning or lossing an argument but rather; what is the best in the eyes of allah and what will benefit us in the hereafter;

 

I don’t see the link between what I said and your reply, I said;

 

“let this be a new discussion, a new start between you and nur; no so and so said in so and so thread,â€

 

you replied;

 

“This proofs what I've been saying all along. You Salafis always like to change the subject whenever you feel uncomfortable answering the questions. You might be told never to question authority but I am not. If you guys want to talk about the Sheikh let us first start with who this person is, what he did, how he decided to write this book. So everybody would know who we are talking about. All you want to do is to go into different interpretations of Islam so people will forget the issues.â€

 

Proof; really? how?; did I say I’m a salafi, even if I am do I represent them all, or have you spoken to them all; your attacks on a whole bunch of people just shows me that you have distinguishing problems, you think everyone is the same, that is naïve; for someone that makes their day on attacking salafi’s, tell me, have you ever spoken to a salafi shik, presented them with your questions; and did you witness them “changing the subject, to what they feel comfortable with†if you have not, then again your just making claims that have no basis, like all others;

 

Its sad because I actually respected you, but this thread has showed me another side of you; you see it is impossible to have a debate with you about anything what soever; you know why, your too defensive, nothings goes in your head, it seems that you have made up your mind about your view, and not willing to consider any different, so in my view there is no point in trying to talk to you about anything; you have an opinion about everything, I think this, I conclude this, I have come to realise this….. and so forth; well I’m sorry, but I only accept; Allah said; the prophet said, the saxab said, the uluam said; it is important to remember that if i wanna find something negative about a person/issue i will go to cetain sources; what i mean by this is; even if there waz a discussion about salafiya or shik abdual wahab; you will get your information from certain people/sources who will b bais in some way and like wise i would probably get information from people who favour him; so it basicly comes down to who each and everyone trust, which widely differs;

 

I don't want gonna get into insulting people's views and all so I’m gonna leave this at that, your entitle to your view sakina; may allah guide us all inshallah, i'm sorry if i have offended you or anyone else in the process, it waz not my intention to do so, and please do forgive me;

 

Maca salamah

[Sakina]

This is the most ridiculous thread I've ever seen. I am going to sign off with this Qur'an verse:

To you your religion, and to me my religion(109:6).

 

May Allah give us the strength to face the things we cannot change and lead us to the right path the path taught by our beloved Prophet (saw).

[Haneefah]

^^Amiin

 

Sorry for interrupting your 'dialogue' folks.

 

Originally posted by Nur:

the reason i did not respond to the

Hamza Yusuf

thread is because I have very little exposure about the brother, his beliefs and speeches

Still, it would've been nice had you intervened as a moderator. That thread was very disappointing to say the least, subhanallah, no one has the right to label others nor speak ill of others and it seemed to me that labelling was the theme of that thread.

 

Salam

[Rahima]

^The problem with some of the threads in this section is not that we as users discuss the trustworthiness of certain speakers, but rather the manner in which we do it. There is no harm if one were to say hebel hebel is not very reliable for he does not provide sound proof, the problem is when we vilify the individual and bad mouth them. There is a clear distinction, and while I too did not particularly like that discussion or the way certain individuals have obsessions with glossing the image of the Saudi Royal Family or others who are on a crusade to attack anything salafi, there is no harm in having respectful discussions where we can disagree on certain issues (so long as they do not impact our caqiidah), hence brother Nur is not at fault for his responsibility is to keep the place clean not punish people for their views which are not necessarily against our beliefs as Muslims.

[Nur]

Sakina sis

 

OK, let us discuss on your terms, but do us a favor, when you tell us about the Sheikhs history, tell us who wrote the history,their Madhab, and also their references. Then, as we proceed, tell us how the Sheikhs aqeedah was changed by his mentors and affected by his allegiances like you implied. Afterwards tell us about the right aqeedah of ahlul Sunnah wal jamaacah, and how the Sheikh deviated from the way of the Prophet SAWS, the platform is yours, and I am all ears.

 

 

Nafisa sis

 

Like sitster Rahima said, the Rules made for the sight by the founders were designed to allow free flow of thought as long as it does not conflict with our faith. Many debators have discussed on the edge of this rule, but, if you were in my shoes, you would feel that it is difficult to be a debator and a moderator at the same time. I focus on issues of aqeedah the most, and that why I invited Sakina, to correct Aqeedah, everything else is negotiable.

 

 

Papamaine bro.

 

you write: Nur, I hope you will lay out your views about Mohamed ibn Abdul-Wahab and his book Kitaab Al-Tawheed. and respond to various accusations of his critcs

 

 

InshAllah brother, as soon as Sakina presents his History according to her sources and his views which she claims to be in conflict with the Ahlul Sunnah Wal Jamaacah mainstream principles.

 

 

Rahima sis

 

Taxiyyatan mina Allah, Mubaarakatan Tayyibah, Salaams, sis, How are the Somali Koalas?

 

 

Nur

[bint abee saeed]

akhie nur, check your inbox inshallah

[bint abee saeed]

here are some works of the shaykh himself:

 

The Explanation of the Kalimah of Tawheed http://www.salafipublications.com/sps/sp.cfm?subsecID=TAW02&articleID=TAW020002&articlePages=1

 

Kashfush-Shubuhaat "The Removal of Doubts"

http://www.salafipublications.com/sps/sp.cfm?secID=TAW&subsecID=TAW06&loadpage=displaysubsection.cfm

 

Al-Qawa'aid al-Arba'ah "The Four Principles"

arabic text: http://www.salafipublications.com/sps/sp.cfm?subsecID=TAW07&articleID=TAW070008&articlePages=1

 

English: (explanation by shaykh saalih al fawzan)

http://www.salafipublications.com/sps/sp.cfm?secID=TAW&subsecID=TAW07&loadpage=displaysubsection.cfm

 

i think the best way to discover the aqeedah of anyone is to read their own work. This would be a proof for, or against them. You'll find that the majority of the shaykh's books are on tawheed since he came during a time when shirk was widespread. He took on the path of the prophets by calling to tawheed first.

 

he wrote many other books as well, such 'Things that Nullify Ones Islam" for excerpts on this particular book check www.bakkah.net. and also 'Usoolul Thalaatha" which can also be found online, (perhaps someone can attach the link.)

i encourage everyone to read these books for increasement in Knowledge of tawheed. i'm sure you can purchase them from any bookstore. but this is faster and cheaper...ahh the benefits of the internet.

walillaahil hamd

 

"O mankind! It is you who stand in need of Allaah, but Allaah is Rich (Free of all wants and needs), Worthy of All Praise." (Qur'an, 35:15)

[bint abee saeed]

found it..

 

Thalaath al-Usool

"The Three Fundamental Principles"

by SHaykhul Islaam Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhaab

 

http://www.al-ibaanah.com/cms/pdf_files/53.pdf

[Haneefah]

Originally posted by Rahima:

brother Nur is not at fault for his responsibility is to keep the place clean not punish people for their views

I in no way form or shape suggested that the brother is at fault or that he should punish ppl for their views. Bisinka! Maybe I should've worded my statement a little differently and said 'as a respected and knowledgeable debator' instead of a moderator. And by intervention I was merely alluding to him joining the discussion and putting some sense into certain people with respect to the way they chose to speak about the Sheikh even though they are entitled to their own opinions. Correcting and reminding our Muslim brothers and sisters when they slip a little (or big time in certain cases) is a responsibility we all share.

 

Brother Nur , my apologies if I came off as though I was laying blame. That was not my intention. As always, your input is greatly appreciated.

[Rahima]

I in no way form or shape suggested that the brother is at fault or that he should punish ppl for their views.

I was not saying that you said that brother Nur was at fault, I was just explaining the responsibility of Nur as a moderator which was a point you raised. I apologies if you thought that I was insinuating this about your comment .

 

Nur,

 

Pleasure is all mine brother. I’m doing well alxamdullilah and the Somali koalas are chewing happily on their eucalyptus leaves (take it how you want )

[bint abee saeed]

Imaam Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab also contributed to the sciences of fiqh

he wrote "Shuroot as-Salaat"

for explanation of section "Things that Nullify Wudu" in this text visit:

http://www.al-ibaanah.com/articles.php?ArtID=114

 

i pasted it in another poll.....

NOMADS TAKE NOTE OF POINT SIX!!!!!!! (LOL)

[bint abee saeed]

I found "The Nullifiers of Islaam" as an e-book in both arabic and english (i didnt know it was all available online. the explanation at this link is by a different shaykh than the one at bakkah.net)

http://www.al-ibaanah.com/ebooks.php?EID=33

 

the arabic text for 'Thalatha Usool' is also available on the website. if anyone has the time to look for it and post it, that would be great. expect the reward from Allaah.

 

I hope I have provided valuable material for your research, and anyone else who is doubtful of Imaam Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab's aqeedah and dawah. I hope we all make use of this. May Allaah grant you success in finding the truth.