Sakina, An Invitation For A Discussion

[Nur]

Aristotle Bro.

 

Thanks for your heartfelt advice, I will take your advice gracefully, just like I accepted Brother Viking's advice on my method which seems to be aggressive to some viewers, and as I pointed out in my last post, InshAllah, and for the sake of Allah, I will do my best to change the questionable aspective of my debates.

 

In case you visit Somalia during your vacation, enjoy camel mikl bar-b-q, and clean environment, You have a valuable thing in your heart, iimaan, protect it, specially when visiting Somalia, pray that Allah saves you from Rer Qansax'x tribal fitnah, it takes no time in Somalia to get your blood boiling after one of your tribesmen tells you that your families camels were stolen by Rer qurac and five of the Camel boys killed while defending their camels, further, Rer Qurac's warriors are still at large planning to finish the job to kill the rest of your clan in the village including their MVP , you their celebrated intellectual from Ardi Gaalo.

 

 

Nur

[Khayr]

Salaams,

 

Picking out an SOL memeber from the rest of the crowd and trying to sugarcoat things under the guise of 'DISCUSSION' is not right and you are not showing proper ADAB for if the

Niyah is for ALLAH (for sharing what LITTLE ILM/KNOWLEDGE that you might have) and to inshallah to increase in Being>Understanding as a result of TAQWA,

then your METHODOLOGY is VERY QUESTIONABLE

and a little SELF-BOASTING!

 

THIS IS AN OBSERVATION and WALLAHU YACALAM!

 

ALLAH gives the HIDAYAH and HIKMAH/UNDERSTANDING

and no amount of RHETORIC,INDEPTH KNOWLEDGE OF THE ARABIC LANGUAGE, Books, OR SELF-SERVING DEBATES-SOPHISTERY can do that!

 

Fi Amanillah

[Sakina]

Alhamdulllah that you have set the record straight, let us agree from today on that we discuss the issue at hand or any other issue from a single perespective, that of Mainstream Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaacah.

You started this thread in response to these two topics.

what is salafiyyah? what do salafees believe and call to?

 

Hamza Yussuf: a Shik or a Suufi

 

As you can see it is all about Salafiyyah. In the past whenever the Salafis felt they could no longer have meaningful answers to the questions posed to them they tend to change the subject and go into irrelevant topics. In order to start a discussion the two parties must agree on the terms and conditions. It seems that we cannot agree on what we are discussing here. Your insistance that Salafis don't exist that is a myth, that the alliegiance between the Sheikh and Saud is a myth after having historical facts that you cannot proof don't exist makes impossible to start a discussion. This time I would like to finish our discussion about the Salafis without having the topic changed constantly to avoid certain questions.

 

if the Sheikh was on a wrestling match I see him being tagged by at least four different heavyweight wrestlers, Shia, Sufi, The Politically motivated, by aligning him with present day Rulers an conditions, and lastly, war on fundememtal Islam )

Brother Nur, if you are saying that the Sheikh was not a co-founder of the Saudi State then prove it with references. And please check out all my references and historical facts about the alliance of the Sheikh and the Saudi.

 

Did you read the book written by Sulayman ibn Abdal Wahhab al Najdi (the brother of the Sheikh) Divine Lightnings in Refuting the Wahhabis. Even his father(who was a Sheikh) was worried about his son along with the Sheikhs of Medina Sheikh Muhammad Ibn Sulayman al-Kurdi and Sheikh Muhammad Hayat al-Sindi (both followers of the Hanbali Madhab, and both former teachers of the Sheikh)

 

Shafici followers took the apparent ( Al Thaahir) and in Somalis who are predominantly Shaaficis to this day will make wuduu if they touch women, whereas, Hanbalis, take the metaphoric meaning of the word ( touch) which implied intercourse, because in a similar situation, Virgin Mary RAA was told that she was about to have a baby while she was a virgin, she said " No human has touched me" and we know women do not get pregnant by mere touching.

Imam Shafici and Imam Ahmed, had different interpretations of the Arabic meaning of this verse. If I say Imam Shafici's interpretation is right and you say Imam Ahmad is right quoting their understanding of the Arabic Language, don't you think that we will still be circling around the issue? Brother Nur, again in the Arabic language it depends on the interpretation of the teacher you are learning from. For instance the verse when Prophet Musa (a.s) asked to see Allah. He said "Thou wilt not see Me" and this case what is the meaning in the LAN (will not) mean. It depends on the grammarians where some say it means "neverness" and others say it doesn't mean that. How do you decide which one is right?

 

 

"And the servants of the Beneficent Allah are they who walk on the earth in humbleness, and when the ignorant address them, they say: Peace." (25:63)

Thank you Aristote I will take your advice and forget about the past and just say Peace.

[Nur]

Kheyr Bro.

 

Jazaakallahu khairan for your well meant advice, and comments, like you've pointed out, I will work on my ADAB immediately, I think that you are the first person who was kind enough to remind me of my poor ADAB on any discussion board, and I am sure that you will not be the last. I will be thankful if you can bring to my attention the distasteful poor ADAB words or suggestions that I have levelled against sister Sakina on this board, which earned me your kind observation. I realize my limitations in case that was your message, Somalis say ( Dadku ku ma wada amaanaanee, yaaney ku wada caayin ). I must also thank you for your well meaning description of me being boastful and not God fearing, two qualities that are only known to Allah SWT, because they are not in the human domain of knowledge unless you have access to my heart. InshAllah I will work on all those shortcomings just in case, I have nothing to lose for checking myself out, and by the way, I have more areas of weakness in my deen that you did not notice that I am working on, May Allah reward you well for your intentions.

 

 

Nur

[Nur]

Sakina sis.

 

Walaalo, thank you fro your elaboration on past posts, may I suggest that we structure this discussion so that we take a topic at a time, and not to discuss any other topic until we resolve the first.

 

I will post my suggestion of how we should go about, if you accept, we shall begin our discussion, if you have other suggestion, please present it and I have no problem with your suggestions.

 

 

My suggestion:

 

1. We have more in common than difference, let us not forget that.

 

2. We both want Islam as a faith to prevail

 

3. We want to address issues that face Muslims that are casuing problems for Muslims to meet their role of being Kheyru Ummah.

 

4. In that context, we find competing interpretation of the Aqeedah, and Fiqh of Islam

 

5. We both agree on Tawheed's importance, and that Allah is above all shgortcomings, Subxaanahu wa tacaalaa.

 

6. In light of the above, we examine Shaikh Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahaab's principles and aqeedah in light of Quraan and Sunnah as a measure.

 

7. We separate aqeedah issues from Fiqh issues and political issues, we cover one at a time, in a neat way that we can all follow and respond to point by point.

 

 

Now, that is my suggestion, and I respect your suggestion, once we agree on a structured format, inshaAllah we can discuss ina very fruitful way.

 

 

Nur

[S.O.S]

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

 

Dear brother Nur,

I understand that you may have little time, but I would like to kindly point out to you that I've sent you a message in you SOL mailbox and I'm still waiting for your reply.

 

A/c

[Sakina]

In Islam we don't have the "separation of church and state". If we are going to talk about religion that includes politcs too. In order to talk about Kitab Tawheed we have first to talk about the circumstances in which it was written. I don't know why you are avoiding in all threads to talk about historical facts.

 

We are going to discuss this by referring to the two topics:

what is salafiyyah? what do salafees believe and call to?

 

Hamza Yussuf: a Shik or a Suufi

 

1. Who founded the Saudi State

2. Who supported the slaughtering of the people of the Arabian Peninsula.

3. When did the Salafi started applying rule 8 and 9. The following of rule 8 and 9 did it became wajib after foundig the Saudi State or before that?

4. To go over all the historical facts I quoted in the two threads.

 

Brother Nur I find it amusing that you are inviting me to a discussion when in the Shia/Sunni thread you accused me of "little knowledge" and "muta". What made you change your mind to make me at par with you?

[Final_Say]

salam all;

 

okay this is clearly going no where;

sister sakina, there are things you are avoiding, maybe because your not comfortable in that area; brother nur maybe you should give a little and let her use "historical facts"

 

sister sakina; you try and group many things in one area; this is normally a means of covering up uncertianty in ones knowldge or confidence, as it avoids indepth analysis of a given area/ topic, and means that you guys will only touch the surface of many topics;

i do not see the relevance of such threads as Hamza yussuf shik or a suffi, salafiya and what they believe and call to; it makes it seem like your just avoiding answering direct questions;

let this be a new discussion, a new start between you and nur; no so and so said in so and so thread, that is just going around in circles, something that i got tired and bored of in both of the other threads and why i pulled out of both;

 

also approach this with an open heart, see it as a blessing or an opportunity to either correct your self or enlighten others about some thing that we may not know; both of you need to stop being so defensive, and compromise on grounds for debate, which your sort of starting to;

 

i really hope this goes somewhere inshallah;

 

maca salamah

[Haaraahur.]

Nur

 

Do you study Islam and arabic at an Islamic university?

[Nur]

Sakina sis

 

You you write:

 

 

In Islam we don't have the "separation of church and state". If we are going to talk about religion that includes politcs too .

 

 

Yes sister I agree to that fact. However Aqeedah does not mean religion, NIXLAH means religion, Aqeedah means concepts of the unseen, like Allah, akhira, angels, Qadar etc. While politics means running the daily affairs of mankind, in which we both believe it should be based on the revelation part of Fiqh al Mucaamalaat like marriage, BUYUUC, business transactions, etc. So, my request for discussing Aqeedah first meant to separate the problem you have with the Sheikh to a size we can bite one at a time, otherwise, the discussion will be incoherent like the last two.

 

You write:

 

 

In order to talk about Kitab Tawheed we have first to talk about the circumstances in which it was written. I don't know why you are avoiding in all threads to talk about historical facts .

 

 

Sister, Allah said, if you disagree on an issue, then refer it to Allah SWT ( Quraan) and the Messenger ( Hadeeth ), why are you objecting to use those two sources to show where the Sheikh went wrong and that he is not part of Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaacah?

 

You write:

 

 

We are going to discuss this by referring to the two topics :

 

what is salafiyyah? what do salafees believe and call to?

 

 

I have no Idea, I am not a Salafi, I am a Muslim, let us discuss what Muslims believe.

 

 

You ask

 

Hamza Yussuf: a Shik or a Suufi

 

I have never heard him speak on Radio, never seen him even on TV, never met him in person, but I read an article of his, quite interesting, but not enough to judge him.

 

You ask:

 

1. Who founded the Saudi State

 

Which one?

 

You ask:

 

2. Who supported the slaughtering of the people of the Arabian Peninsula .

 

Please tell me who?

 

You write:

 

3. When did the Salafi started applying rule 8 and 9. The following of rule 8 and 9 did it became wajib after foundig the Saudi State or before that?

 

I dont know, I am not Salafi, I am a Muslim.

 

 

You write:

 

Brother Nur I find it amusing that you are inviting me to a discussion when in the Shia/Sunni thread you accused me of "little knowledge" and "muta". What made you change your mind to make me at par with you ?

 

 

Sister Sakina, let us visit the threads and see what you have written on these threads and what I have responded:

 

Sakina Wrote:

 

I am pleased to see that both sect sunnis and shias are finally debating. I am doing a research on almost all the schools of thoughts (Malikis, Hanifis, Hambalis, Shafi,Shias(several of them) and the Wahhabi/Salafis.) I found that most of the propaganda against the shias are coming from the Wahhabis. Wahhabis call themselves Salafis because people started asking questions about the Sheikh they follow Mohammed Ibn Abdullah Wahhab. Infact his own brother Ismail and father were against him. So he made an alliance with Saud and they took over all the Arabian Peninsula. My question to brother Nur is are you saying that all the islamic ummah were not following the sunnah till Ibn Abdullah came to save them in the late 1700th? I would also like to know if Imam Malik and Imam Hanifa thought that it was useful for them to study under Imam Sadiq clearly they consider him not only a muslim but a knowledgeable Alim. We might not consider him an Imam but we should respect his knowledge and status as did our own Imams Malik and Hanif. Therefore shiasm is another school of thought as are the Malikis, Hambalis, Shafis and Hanafis.

 

 

I responded:

 

 

No, my dear sister, I am not saying that. With all due respect, your question tells me that you have not done your research well, because if you read my post, you will not find a SINGLE reference to Ibn Abdullah.

 

What I said in a nutshel is that

 

1. Shiism, has not been the same throughtout the ages.

 

3. The original Shia, ( Phase 1, and Two) where not even a Madhab, they were the core Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaacah, the support of Ali was the right thing to do at that time.

 

2. Present day Shiism represents a stark departure from the original teachings of the Imaams which was greatly affected by the ( Ghuluw) extremism of the Shia during the absence of their missing Imaam ( Al Ghaybatul Sughraa) 65 years of reporting from a missing Imaam, and ascribing all the stories to him.

5. If you read the summary of my work you can see the proof from your Shia books.

 

I pray for your salvation and all other Shia brothers and sisters, Amin.

 

 

Sakina responed:

 

The Quran tells us not to be suspicious of each other. Only because I've decided to speak about the injustice done to our brothers/sisters shias you assume that I am a shia too. I follow the Quran and the sunna. We have to admit thought that there are a lot of unanswered questions about our past history. From my own research I came to the conclusion that some of our history is very dark as the shias claim and we have to face it and find an answer for it. I am going to ask you some questions that some shias posed to me and after doing my research and with my limited knowledge unfortunately I came to the conclusion they are pretty accurate. Maybe you can give me answers from our books such us Bukhari and Muslim and please I do not want to know what Ibn Tamiyya's opinion is we all know that.

 

1) What happened in "The dark Thursday" when our beloved Prophet (s.w.w) asked for pen and paper so he could dictate us something that would not divide us and Omar said that the Prophet (s.w.w.) was delirious do not give him anything (Hint look in Sahih Muslim)

 

2 ) What happend in Saqifa? Who was present there and how was the first Khalifa choosen?

 

3) Why Fatima bint Rasulullah was angry at the Khalifa and his supporters till the time she passed away?

 

4) Who was at the head of the first civil war between the muslim ummah the war of Jamal and who was at the head of that war?

 

5)How many times Abu Bakr fainted in his deathbed and yet he was allowed to write his will and was not called delirious?

 

I have many more question but for now Insha Allah I'll wait for the reply for these ones. I am seriously trying to find the truth. Some of my family members decided to follow the Wahhabi/Salafi sect and they are not allowed to ask questions only blind following of the sect.

 

Whenever I ask questions they tell me you are westernized or are you still following the Shafis? Therefore I am not surprise that people would call me a shia only because I want to verify if what they are telling is the truth or not.

 

 

I responded:

 

 

Sakina sis

 

You Keep saying that your questions were not answered by Sunnis and Shia, so today i am going to answer your questions, I also have some questions for you, and I am kindly asking you to answer them if you would.

 

 

you write:

 

 

" From my own research I came to the conclusion that some of our history is very dark as the shias claim and we have to face it and find an answer for it "

 

Answer:

 

Please tell us about the sources of your research that helped you find out about the Dark Side of Sunnis and the Kufr of Abu Bakar, Omar, Othman and all the Sahaabah as the Shia claim? Was Abu Bakar so careless at the end of his life to pull a trick like that while the Prophet was still not burried like the Shia say? what would be his drivers? you cant say he loved money, or Power ( read his speech below)?

 

 

Your Write:

 

" I am going to ask you some questions that some shias posed to me and after doing my research and with my limited knowledge unfortunately I came to the conclusion they are pretty accurate . "

 

Answer:

 

Sister how can you verify the Shia claims in order to reach a solid concllusion that they are PRETTY ACCURATE if as you say YOU HAVE VERY LIMITED KNOWLEDGE, Can you explain this contradiction please?

 

 

You ask.

 

" you can give me answers from our books such us Bukhari and Muslim and please I do not want to know what Ibn Tamiyya's opinion is we all know that."

 

 

Answer:

 

Sister, Bukhari was a Hadeeth Collector, authenticator, and compiler, not a Historian, but if you are a researcher why are you refusing to accept Ibn Taimyya's account, dont you know that he was one of the major architects of the very term Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaach which you say you belong to? or in case you don't believe in him at all, please show us from his writings where he went wrong, that is the least you can do as a researcher and it is amaanah.

 

So, how did you come to accept the Shia sources that are neither Muslim nor Bukhaari, since you only accept thoses sources, or are you suggesting that the only reliable sources are Kuleiny, Majlisi, and Khomeiny who are your Sheikhs?.

 

 

You ask

 

" 1) What happened in "The dark Thursday" when our beloved Prophet (s.w.w) asked for pen and paper so he could dictate us something that would not divide us and Omar said that the Prophet (s.w.w.) was delirious do not give him anything (Hint look in Sahih Muslim )"

 

Answer:

 

 

Sister, I couldn't agree with you more here, it was indeed a Dark Thursday , a concocted story created by the followers of a baby imaam who got lost falling in a ditch at age four, and for the next 65 years, three men were transmitting his teachings and revelations to the Shia faithful behind the Sirdaab, one of these stories being the Dark thursday which you believe in, I have never seen someone claiming to be Sunnah wal jamaaca believe in such a mockery of the faith. By adding a little of the Saxix Muslim with a bunch of fallacies from the Shia to create a case that teh Imaamah was stolen from Ali and ignoring the rich History of the companions and their legends is jumping the gun on the wrong target, The funny thing is that you even you believe that the Prophet asked for a pen and paper as if he has done it anytime in his lifetime! remember he was the illitrate prophet ? his miracle! when you belive in a lie, make sure it is consistent before you pose it to us, if you are a good researcher!

 

 

You ask:

 

 

" 2) What happend in Saqifa? Who was present there and how was the first Khalifa chosen ?"

 

Answer:

 

It is a rather long story, the gist of it was that the Ansar and Muhajirs disputed in the leadership of the Muslims, while Ali, Zubeir and Talha took a neutral position by not attending and staying in Fatimas house. Omar was told that the Ansaar were meeting in Saqiifa bani Sacida to elect Ubadah Ibn Samit who was ill and shivering covered up and sick, so, Omar so that there was many novice Muslims ( like me and you) who also want to have their say along with the veteran Companions like Abu Bakar and Umar. So, he was advised to move the convention to madina where the ansars requested to have a representative from them and a representative from the Muhajirs elected, however, Umar was quick to dispel this motion by simply puting his hand in Abu Bakar's hand and voting for Abu Bakar as the Amir of the believers, immediately all the Ansars and Muhajirs followed and the matter was concluded without any discord.

 

From the Shia's most reliable book, Nahjul Balaagha, here is what the Shia say Ali said:

 

" I was elected by the same people who have elected Abu bakar, Omar and Othman whith the same mandate as theirs, so neither does a present person has a right to elect nor an absent person have the right to reject (as the same committee elected me with the same mandate), because the Shuraa consultative election is for the Muhaajirs and the Ansaar, and they have unanimously elected a man and they named him an IMAAM, an action that pelased Allah SWT, so in case a person dissents their choice by a slander, or introduces a Bidcah, (innovation ) bring him back to his sense, if he refuses, fight him for his (crime) of following a different path than that of the believers" source ; Nahjul Balaagha, Volume 3, page 7 .

 

 

You Ask:

 

3) Why Fatima bint Rasulullah was angry at the Khalifa and his supporters till the time she passed away?

 

Answer:

 

Fatima may Allah be pleased with her was upset with Abu Bakar because a dispute of the inheritance of the Prophets property, according to the Hadeeth (saxix) the Prophet SAWS said, " Naxnu macsharal Anbiyaa, laa nuwarrith " ( we the Prophets, are not to be inherited (possessions belong to the ummah ) but, the Aalal beit are supported by the public treasury which all the khulafa adgered to.

 

 

You ask.

 

4) Who was at the head of the first civil war between the muslim ummah the war of Jamal and who was at the head of that war ?

 

 

Answer:

 

Now, I can sense that all of your questions are from the Shia sources, dont tell me you are not a Shia sis. We all know it was the Mother of believers in that Fitna, and she was on the wrong side of that dispute but unlike you, who preach thinking well of Muslims when it suits you, we the ahlul Sunnah think very highly about Aisha, we sya that she genuinely believed that she was on the right side, but she was not according to the Hadeeth of barking dogs, I hope that does not make you very angry, but we stop there as a respect to the mother of Believers which the Shia are quick to defame her as a demon, a virtuous woman the Prophet SAWS died in her lap and about whom the prophet SAWS told us, " take half our deen from this Xumeiraa ", so like the Shia we, The Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaacah do not have INFALLIBLE people if you are suggesting that Fatima was Infallible and Aisha was not.

 

You ask:

 

5) How many times Abu Bakr fainted in his deathbed and yet he was allowed to write his will and was not called delirious ?

 

Answer:

 

I really did not count that, are you suggesting that anyone called the Prophet SAWS was delirious? please post the Muslim Hadeeth you are talking about, I cant take it for mere face value, this is serious business.

 

You ask:

 

I have many more question but for now Insha Allah I'll wait for the reply for these ones. I am seriously trying to find the truth .

 

 

Answer:

 

After asking me the toughest questions a Shia person can pose and asking cosmetic questions to Mutakallim, just to seem neutral, you claim to be looking for the truth, well sister, if indeed you are after the truth, read my post and tell me if you believe if the modern day Shia religion is like ours.

 

 

You ask:

 

 

" Some of my family members decided to follow the Wahhabi/Salafi sect and they are not allowed to ask questions only blind following of the sect."

 

 

Answer:

 

Is this a subliminal message to say you have an open mind and that you are on your way to convert to Shiism, so that you encourage other viewers to also follow your open mind example? let us see how open minded you are, do you believe in the Muta marriage of the Shia? if yes have you ever practiced it?

 

 

As you can see Sakina, I never accused you of Muta, accusation means that I came forward to claim that you have married muta, instead I asked you an honest question after you have clearly admitted that you are questioning all of our Sunni past history, and after you've admitted that Shia account and story to be pretty accurate in your own words:

 

Sakina Wrote: Quote:I am going to ask you some questions that some shias posed to me and after doing my research and with my limited knowledge unfortunately I came to the conclusion they are pretty accurate End Quote

 

A statementy that explains about your "Knowledge" in your own words, and the Muta Marriage, a question you begged to be asked.

 

Now, that is all for the record, and for all viewers to see, and judge, and its not I who brought it up, you did it sis.

 

 

Nur

[Viking]

Sister, I couldn't agree with you more here, it was indeed a Dark Thursday , a concocted story created by the followers of a baby imaam who got lost falling in a ditch at age four, and for the next 65 years, three men were transmitting his teachings and revelations to the Shia faithful behind the Sirdaab, one of these stories being the Dark thursday which you believe in, I have never seen someone claiming to be Sunnah wal jamaaca believe in such a mockery of the faith. By adding a little of the Saxix Muslim with a bunch of fallacies from the Shia to create a case that teh Imaamah was stolen from Ali and ignoring the rich History of the companions and their legends is jumping the gun on the wrong target, The funny thing is that you even you believe that the Prophet asked for a pen and paper as if he has done it anytime in his lifetime! remember he was the illitrate prophet ? his miracle! when you belive in a lie, make sure it is consistent before you pose it to us, if you are a good researcher!

Nur,

The Tragedy of Thursday et al. are much talked about in Shi'a literature but it is a hadith that is recorded by both Bukhari and Muslim. Also, the Prophet SAWS asking for a pen doesn't men that he was literally going to write the words himself. Bro Nur, I don't know what to think; either you are wrong (you say that the story is concocted and claim that the Prophet SAWS would not ask for a pen for he was illiterate) or this particluar Hadith is authentic and it actually hapenned that Sahabah refused to do as the Prophet SAWS ordered them to. Which one is it?

 

 

Sahih Bukhari - Volume 7, Book 70, Number 573:

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

 

When Allah's Apostle was on his death-bed and in the house there were some people among whom was 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, the Prophet said, "Come, let me write for you a statement after which you will not go astray." 'Umar said, "The Prophet is seriously ill and you have the Qur'an; so the Book of Allah is enough for us." The people present in the house differed and quarrelled. Some said "Go near so that the Prophet may write for you a statement after which you will not go astray," while the others said as Umar said. When they caused a hue and cry before the Prophet, Allah's Apostle said, "Go away!" Narrated 'Ubaidullah: Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was very unfortunate that Allah's Apostle was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise."

Source

 

 

Sahih Muslim - Book 013, Number 4014:

 

Sa'id b. Jubair reported that Ibn 'Abbas said: Thursday, (and then said): What is this Thursday? He then wept so much that his tears moistened the pebbles. I said: Ibn 'Abbas, what is (significant) about Thursday? He (Ibn 'Abbas) said: The illness of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) took a serious turn (on this day), and he said: Come to me, so that I should write for you a document that you may not go astray after me. They (the Companions around him) disputed, and it is not meet to dispute in the presence of the Apostle. They said: How is lie (Allah's Apostle)? Has he lost his consciousness? Try to learn from him (this point). He (the Holy Prophet) said: Leave me. I am better in the state (than the one in which you are engaged). I make a will about three things: Turn out the polytheists from the territory of Arabia; show hospitality to the (foreign) delegations as I used to show them hospitality. He (the narrator) said: He (Ibn Abbas) kept silent on the third point, or he (the narrator) said: But I forgot that.

Source

 

 

PS: Don't claim that I'm coming to "her rescue" because you and I have had this discussion before but it has probably slipped your mind. I also asked myself the same questions as Sakina years ago after reading certain books i.e. the famous/infamous book "Then I was Guided" by Tijani al-Samawi. I understand that this is an isssue that people don't feel comfortable talking about, but please bro, give her the benefit of the doubt because as a Muslim, you owe her that at least.

[bint abee saeed]

Ahlul sunnah wal jama'ah cling and hold firmly on to the narrations. we depend on the understanding and explanations of the salafus saalih, since they understood the religion the best. in this entire thread i did not come across anyone backing themselves up with "the messenger said; sahaabee said; tabi'ee said; imaam so and so said;

 

'i said" and "i think" and "my answer" and "i came to the conclusion that..." and "in my view"

is not justice when searching for the truth. and its not justice that you run with everything an individual on SOL posts from their ownselves.

[this wouldnt even be allowed on an english research paper on the most insignificant thing, so how much more cautious are we to speak about Allaah's deen? give Allaah's deen what it deserves]

 

if you happen to post an ayah or hadeeth then it must be supported with explanation from a SCHOLAR. our knowledge is very limited so let us fear Allaah lest we speak about Him, subhaanahu wa ta'alla, without knowledge.

here is a good place to start: www.tafsir.com, if u have access to other reliable sources then use them inshallah.

 

and i thought this discussion was about Allaah's names and attributes. please lets post some of the statements of the salaf to show how they understood the attributes of Allaah.

Ahlul sunnah are comforted by the authentic narrations.

 

(NOTE: i dont use the term ahlul sunnah to deceive anyone, this term is interchangable with salafiyyah, and we've been trying to explain that but many are not trying to hear it. nevertheless this is what i'm upon, the sunnah/salafiyyah/ahlul sunnah/ahlul hadeeth/ahlul athar, these are descriptions not titles we're running around with that posses no meaning. - i dont want to start with this, i'm just clarifying myself)

[Nur]

Viking Bro.

 

Thanks for the two hadeeths, by concoction I meant the story built around these Hadeeths and others always leads to one conclusion: The Companions collectively conspired agianst Aalal beit and denied them the leadership they rightfully owned . Which is the DARK HISTORY Sakina has referred to in her rebuttal, Whenever a dispute like this happens, and historical accounts conflict, Allah instructs us to go back to square one: Quraan, and Hadeeth, well, the Shia do not accept none of the Hadeeths of the Sunnah, but they accept Kuleiny and company, for that reason I posted their beliefs ( I am Shia too ) to show Nomads how far they have drifted from the simple teachings of Tawheed, that none but Allah is ilaah, who knows the Gheib, and disposes affairs of humans.

 

Brother, I took a lot of pains talking very kindly with Sakina, I genuinely was hoping that we can discuss a structured discussion about Sheikh Muahammad Ibn Abdul Wahaab, I was very concilatory, and I went out of may way to address her the best way I know, but, the sister and whoever is fueling her anger, kept on diverting the issue to Salafi/Wahaabi issue, two names I deny belonging to loudly, her last post though was pivotal, it was taunting, after I have let bygones be bygones, and after i have even apologised for things I have not said, she comes back with old greivances that I figuratively apologised for the sake of resolving dispute and not that I was guuilty of it. If you read the last part of my reply, I aksed her if she belives in MUTA?.... The next Question IF YES, big IF,,, then......

If her first answer was that she did not believe in Shia concepts as accurate accounts according to her own words, then the second part does not apply on her at all. Imagine filling an application in which you are asked are you Somali? if yes are you a woman? once you check NO, then, the second question is immaterial. Somalis say " boohinta orgiga ka weyn"

 

 

Mudantii Haweenka

 

Maya walaalo, Waxbarashada Uni. waa ii dhammatay mar hore, waxaan wax ka bartaa Kutubta iyo Mashaayikhda.

 

 

Nur

[Haaraahur.]

^

Mashayikhda oo laga wado?

[Sakina]

let this be a new discussion, a new start between you and nur; no so and so said in so and so thread,

This proofs what I've been saying all along. You Salafis always like to change the subject whenever you feel uncomfortable answering the questions. You might be told never to question authority but I am not. If you guys want to talk about the Sheikh let us first start with who this person is, what he did, how he decided to write this book. So everybody would know who we are talking about. All you want to do is to go into different interpretations of Islam so people will forget the issues.

 

Brother Nur, this is going to be the last time I am going to ask you since you are the one invited me to a discussion. Do you want to start with the history of this Sheikh and his allegiances before he wrote this particular book? If your answer is yes then we can start a discussion if you are still avoiding these questions with the disguise of the arabic language so you can start a new topic and avoid the real issue then I do not accept your invitation on your own terms. It has to also be on my own terms

 

PS. I see you have no problem others using google. Is it because they are salafis?

 

and the Muta Marriage, a question you begged to be asked.

Brother Nur, I suggest instead of bragging about studying arabic grammar you better start reading the books of AKHLAQ. It seems to me you don't even know the meaning of the word.

 

 

Jazmine I suggest you start your own research instead of repeating what you are told. You might be happy to blindly follow the crowd but I am not.