A Very Dark moment in History

[Gediid]

Xassan Nasra

 

I don't know Aboowe but you look like you're sick and need help,markaas all I can say is Ilaahey ha ku daweeyo.

If Tuke is noble man to you then I have nothing more to say than May Allah help you.

[Lefty]

Hold up folks!

 

By giving a closure observation and analysis, The original picture is been changed with power-point programs and there are strong proof to that. There's a question mark on the shadows, the background, the color of the flame, the intention of the picture and how and what is been tried to change, and many other things.

 

This doesn't need a scientific formula to figure out, it's a very basic fabrication and manipulated picture. If you still oppose that, then you need and should be ready to answer alot of questions about that picture.!

 

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[Xassan Nasra Allah]

honestly , i couldn't see the picture clearly, but its very suspicous as lefty said. as for atrocities, gediid, i said, if the alleged burning occured, and the man was innocent, then tuke should pay for it, but if the man was an snm blood sucking traitor, then the alleged burning is the proper punishment. i mean, our lives have the same values as your lives. the government killed civilians not intentionally, as you guys claim, but did use heavy weaponary, when the snm intentionally used them as sheilds.

 

i do regret any civilians dying as a result of the former government shelling of the civilian populated area, but i do condone their effort to exterminate the SNM, who commited a genocide against refugees,and innocent people because they were siyad barre's tribe.

 

so seperate the issues.

why is this picture wasn't shown as evidence when the remnants of the snm in canada were lodging complains against tuke?

 

i do believe this picture is a fabrication made for political gains for traitorland. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Baashi]

Xassan

Even if we assume the victim, for the sake of argument, had done something..still u can't justify this despicable act. It is unheard of Somalis burning other Somalis, no matter how heated the passions get in conflicts...it is against both our religion and our nomadic culture.

SNM and Barre's army were full of idiots...that conflict created animosity between tribes there...in the name of what they called 'a noble cause'. To some SNM are all Mujahidiin. We can certainly use good judgement.

 

Lefty,

CBC TV had broadcasted Tuke pictures in 1993 and they were not looked like this...out of politeness, let's give nomads the benefit of doubt. Nomads who reside in Canada can actually request a transcript to double check. Canadians released him and charged him for perjury and deported him to Niagara Falls, NY that was were he entered the country. US tried him and finally let him go. In 1993, when Tuke was exposed to authorities...in response Gen Isma'il Jama, the head of prison guards (ciidanka Asluubta) was exposed. Always as a community we lose..and the end of day the justice never get served.

 

Tuke was for sure involved the killings of that part of Somalia...Somaliland guurti, in Burca gathering, had issued a decree of clemency to both sides of that conflict...that was very wise thing to do.

[Xassan Nasra Allah]

baashi, i wouldn't really mind if these ppl, brought forth their criminals that they call mujaahidiin, along with our criminals, and all are brought to justice, any courts deal with them.

if the snm traitors and former somali army suspects are found guilty beyond reasonable doubt, then what ever the courts would rule is fair.

 

but what infuriates me is the fact that they want to show their snm , hyena toothed treasonous murderers as mujaahidiin,and the opposing army as murdurers.

 

start with siilaanyo and tuur, then we will give up gaani and morgan, and every snm murdurer should also be brought to justice, rather than making a mockery out of the word mujaahid.

 

thats the only way justice can be served.

 

as for their one sided justice, it will always be a failure.

 

as for the picture, we should always be skeptical of one sided info, because a picture can easily be manipulated nowadays.

 

if you guys have prove beyond reasonable doubt that tuke killed innocent ppl, then i think he should be brought to justice along with one of the snm colonels .

 

this is justice not your onesided

 

the reason iam so mad is that i lost innocent relatives to the snm, and this argument is personal to me.

selective justice will never bear any fruit.

justice :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Blessed]

Allah!

 

This whole thread gives me a tummy ache. It is sickening to see that we can't even agree on an evil act . Seems like Somalis will be running arround in circles and blaming a whole tribe for the actions of individuals . I guess we'v learnt NOTHING!

 

His answer was , " only i care about my clan"......I hate to say it , but i think every other somali would have given da same answer!

I personally could care less if somalia is united or divided coz there is no somali nation anyway. We are just collection of clans who happen to speak da same language and share da same heritage.

I hate to agree with ya. But walahi you have a point. Wey inoo dhamaatey :mad:

[Gediid]

Xassan Nasra

What can say man you are full of Cuqdad.Like I said before dad aamusnaanta ayey sharaf ku leeyihiin.Maybe you are one of them.

[Xassan Nasra Allah]

so to speak of the truth is cuqdad? so propogandadiina ayaad doonaysaa in aad dhalinta isku tustaan inaad victims tihiin.

 

you are rediculous wallaahi. ihave been very fair,and said once and again that the picture is fake and not admissible in any court in the usa as an evidence. iam saying bring solid evidence, and also bring the snm criminals that commited genocide in sool sanaag, burco berbera and hargeysa refugee camps. then we can heal together.

 

you really are a hypocrit and this whole thread is part of the Traitorlanders's propoganda for the somali public opinion.

[Gediid]

What truth are you talking about.Mise do you mean to say that 50000 deaths in 1 year was justified or do you mean to say even the babies that were brutally murdered in their homes were SNM or they had grenades in their diapers.man wake up please I am from hargeisa and I saw firsthand what the government did and people like you who think Tuke was right in doing what he did are worse then the murderers himself.

[SamiGyrl]

I thank those that really care about the somali people and showed their utter disgust at the picuture of a fellow Somali being burned, even in the Hadith or the Quran I cant remember where I read it and if I am wrong Allah forgive me, but that burning is only reserved for Allah and the last day and that no one shall burn another person.

 

Xasaan by showing is absolute disregard for the burning of a Somali whether that man was a Somalilander or a Somali or what have you no one deserves to get burned not even the men that did it.

 

What scares me the most is how "inda adeyg" or hard eyed or should I say hard hearted certain people in Somalia proper can be when faced, with what actually happend.

 

-Citizen Sami

 

If you doubt what you see all you have to do is go to Somaliland and one person after the other will tell you the truth.

 

[ April 15, 2003, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Admin ]

[SamiGyrl]

With regards to the administrator I dont know why you might have deleted it before, but since you didnt delete it now, then I guess you dont have to worry about my last post, however if you did delete it for any reason then thats on you, not me.

 

-Citizen Sami

[Xassan Nasra Allah]

so you have the exact number of casualties of the 1988 war? bring forth unbiased documents.

 

as for the civilian deaths, if the snm didn't invade hargeysa and burca simultaneously sniping the military ,and killing anyone who is not their tribe, then as in any war , the army would respond to rout out the snm from the city, and thats what exactly happened.

 

snm burned dozens of villages and killed their inhabitants in sool prior to the final showdawn, what say ye about these atrocities?

 

iam not condoning for any civilian death, but the death of snm murdurers is justified.

 

ninkastaba boogtiisaa u muuqata. i dont like to dwell on the civil war, but i do REJECT ,the "we are the VICTIMS" of the somali civil war.

 

i do beleive innocent people suffered in that war, from either side of the trenches, and no certain ppl's lives are more sacred than the rest, because our people are humans as well.

 

we will reach to a conclusion when you admit the guilt of your ilk.

[Baashi]

If there are young 'nomads'...out there, who don't know that much about Somalia or Somalis,...who are sitting back, holding their breath, and wondering! I would like u to see the bigger picture.

 

We are, and have been, a tribal communities...socially, that is how we are organized. In disputes and conflicts, we settle things through clan chiefs or Nabadoono! We had unwritten rules "xeerar" in which no one have an institutional capacity to implement them...the fear of reprisal, revenge is what used to hold them in peace. That is, untill we attained independence and Somali state come into being. Leaders of the new state were not impartial at all and they abused their power. They betrayed us..worse than that they betrayed our confidence in any government system...unless our clan dominates it. After forty yrs the state collapsed...and ever since we were grieving and could not find political consensus that can take us out of this anarchy.

 

As much as we hate what is happening back home, anarchy, triblism, etc...it is a reality that needs to be changed. We are not organised in classes, or political parties such as farmers, workers, big business..there is no such things in Somalia's political landscape...we are but tribal communities and such culture every tribe, clan has a compelling interest to secure part of the pie..the nomadic way. We won't be able to change it untill we all become realists, pragmatists...or have an inclination toward objective truth...we have to see they way things are...not what they ought to be.

 

Case in point, this Tuke affair. There are so much grievences by so many victims in many different tribes...they were all wronged. U can choose to see one side of the coin or u can flip the coin and see the other side too...it is there. While it cannot be proved retrospectively who did what, onething is clear crimes were committed for different reasons by all sides of Somalia's civil war.

 

Note: this is a brief background to disappointed nomads.

[Gediid]

Xassan Nasra

 

Ninkii bugtaa meel balbashaa saaxiib, I am a realist and I do not concoct stories to make me feel good.I saw that man in real live and was powerless to do anything about it.Like all Somalis who have seen sick demented people like Tuke take the lives of their loved ones, I wait patiently for the day of reckoning when he burns in hell.Laakin you seem to argue in this man's favour like he is a beloved hero maybe a relative because I do not know Muslim or gaal who would condone burning a human alive and but that is on record right now.Whatever grudge or pain I had on seeing this picture has quadrupled a zillion times because I now know there are people who have and will have the mentality of Tuke in decades to come, who think burning a person alive is justifiable.

To me the act of a demented sick coward and the person who support it are the 2 sides of the same coin.There will be a million Tuke's so long as there are Xassan Nasra's who will condone his actions.Period......

[Libaax-Sankataabte]

The torture killing of another nomad for the simple purpose of keeping an unjust regime in power is totally un-islamic, barbaric and unacceptable. Both Siyaad Barre and the many rebel groups against him have committed heinous acts against innocent civilians and the perpetrators should all get their day in court. If not, Allah's day is waiting for them.

 

I also think that the past crimes committed by Siyaad Barre, SNM, USC, or any other Somali rebel group should never be used for the purpose of further deepening the tribal distrust that has already rigged our homeland. Doing so would be un-islamic, unproductive and a crime itself.

 

 

Gediid, thanks for posting this topic.

 

Nomads, whatever you do, please don't get into tribal accusations, personal attacks and emotional arguements on this issue. Let us all be civilized and agree to disagree.