I remember SNM's crimes against my people !

[A.J.]

Xiin,

 

Those areas will have the same status and support within Somaliland.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Warran, perhaps Hadraawi's gems are quite germane here:

 

Waxaadan helaynin usii hanqaltaaga

Waxaadan huraynin adoon ka habsaamin

Ayyaa ka hagaagsan~~

 

 

Che, from Paragon it would be both. From me it's a generous advice!

[Che -Guevara]

^^^Aw dhuudhumashada ee caadi usoo bax nooh...generous advice kulahaa!

[xiinfaniin]

^^Dont you think somaliland is doing good as it's and the least it needs is to fly kamakazi-like operations in Dhahar?

 

What is there for them to gain, adeer?

 

Xaasid baa tahaye ee ragga wax u sheeg!

[Che -Guevara]

Ragu toodaa u cad. Let them be.

 

 

That are running out of ideas. Amazing thing all Somalis don't realise unless you sit down together, nothing is gonna work whether you want your own independent state or wanna be the king of Somalia. The solution lies within us.

 

 

haddii ay Somaliland u dhaqanto sida qayrul-masuulnimada ah ee ay u dhaqmaan Cabdillaahi Yuusuf iyo kooxdiisu may jireen Boosaaso iyo Garoowe in ay nabad ku joogaan, dhuumasho ayay ku joogi lahaayeen kolba meel aan la garanayn.

This is an excerpt from Mujahid Maxamed Kaahin's interview. It is hard to reason with people who buy into their own B.S. It is like Yeey and Jeele thinking they could pacify using Ethio muscles and their kinsmen.

[RedSea]

Originally posted by me:

^What do you suggest then? You are always saying that but never offering an alternative.

 

Edit: and how can unity be in one clans interest?

When someone cheers on for the dictator Siyad Barre and his autrocities commited against innocent lives and then with the same breath preaches about somali unity has to be remarkable stance which obviously confuses me and many others here.

 

 

First of all, I don't see why and many others here are arguing about somethings that may or may never be accomplished, when you should be worrying about the survival of the somali people in general.

 

If Somalilanders say they don't want to join the rest of Somalia with another Union ( note the rest of Somalis aren't united even for the same cause) then I think for the sake of surival and peace, they shouldn't be forced to anything against their will. Because we know if that happens, the whole of Somali society will be even further in dark hole and nothing will ever get done.

 

Pro Somali wayne folks can do two things here.

 

1. They can wish the Somalilanders the best of luck . And even though they have seceded they are still somalis, Muslims, therefore every Somali has the right to live in that land. There can be two countries living side by side peacefully and in harmony. Two countries with even the same enemy and same interests, who knows maybe down the road they may join altogether, but at least one thing is clear that both somalis on either side will not be involved in bloody wars, and would live peacefull along side each other. Sida aakhir lagu maseegayo, laakin lugahan la iska haysto ayaa aakhiro lagu seegayaa oo waliba lagu kala fogaanaya.

 

2. Second option:

 

To deny Somalilanders' wish to secede. After having refused another union, if Southern Somalis start an out war with them. Then not only will any future nationhood be at risk, but you may kiss the bidings between Somalis good bye. They may no longer be Somalis. This will only distance people from each other, it will not help Somaliwayne nor will it help anyone else.

 

My assertions are based on clear understandings of the reality on the ground. Let us not get caught up with fantasies which are not even light years away from being attained.

[RedSea]

Che,

 

Dont dismiss the above quote completely saaxib as there is some truth to it.

 

I am more than positive that Pland followed the positive steps taken by Somaliland when they established Puntland state of Somalia in 1998.

 

Good neighbor= peace. Somalialnd and Puntland have living side by side peacefull for almost a decade now, and mostly peace has prevailed in between them with exception of few skirmishes here and there.

 

If Somaliland acted maniacal, they could have started war with Puntland over the disputed regions of Sool and Eastern Sanaag, I am speaking of an all out war with its neighbor. However that hasnt happen yet.

[Gabbal]

Originally posted by Cumar:

quote:Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

^^You see, the reason I did not response to your diatribe was because your tone and writing sounded quite familiar. I can easily distinguish between rational people from the irrational ones. And with that you may want consider using your talent to advance other causes adeer and forgo from the urge of defending a dictator who passed away years ago and whose crimes and cruelties are recorded both in print and memory.

xiinfaniin, whilst debates that ommit references is your thing, it is fortunately is not mine.

 

So I advise you to stop employing evasive maneuvers and learn the rules of debating where you provide complete source citations for your allegations.

 

To regard a well-reference post as a diatribe is simply ludicrous and yet has the audacity to to accuse me of irrationality.

Taa haka jawaabo!

 

Enlightening posts were yours, fully referenced and cited. Xiin, of course, finds himself unable to spew hearsay in the face of documented sources!.

[Gabbal]

Originally posted by Cumar:

Paragon, Somalis who witnessed the sixties and seventies would enlighten you about the sense of unity achieved in the seventies and the lack thereof in the sixties.

 

In the sixties, there was heavy corruption and a high level of tribalism based affairs and the present government of that time degenerated into anarchy. There were over thousand clan-based candidates and over seventy parties for fewer than 130 seats. The Somali population was simply tired of this power struggle, disunity and pseudo-democracy. Somalia, during that period, received the highest foreign aid per capita in comparison to other African states but there was practically little development projects to no visible improvement in the standard of living. The aid money went straight in to the pockets of the politicians. Most of the custom duties were pocketed by civil servants; hospitals were selling their medicines to local pharmacies; and government-owned cars were being used as taxis. There was no minimum basis for national cooperation and high decree of moral decay was prevalent. This is why M S Barre started a campaign exposing the thievery and mismanagement of the political leaders in the early months after the coup.

 

After Maxamed Siyaad Barre (RH) staged the revolution with senior army officers, it was welcomed by every Somali.

 

Within three years, M S Barre achieved goals that took the previous government forever to decide on. He put in effect the choice of a script for the national language. Civil servants of up to 30,000 students were sent to the baaddiye to educate the nomads in literacy. Industry, banks and businesses were nationalised. Cooperative farms were promoted. Rehabilitation programs were created for drought victims. At least 30,000 students and teachers took part in the rescue-operation with the backing of $20 million. The SN Army was increased from 10,000 to 40,000. He banned foreigners from taking in posts that could be filled by Somalis. Rent was reduced, prices were frozen.

 

The seventies was marked as the best era of Somalia. Kids grew up with no single regard to their clan. Somalis displayed the "Somalia against the World" and "Somalia on the top of the World" attitudes.

 

This is manifested in the words of Abdi Sheikh Abdi who said:

 

quote:

---

It can hardly be denied that Somalia under its present leadership has achieved some impressive results. This is most apparent to someone, like myself, who had been out of the country for many years. A good number of ambitious projects have been started, and in part completed, under the military Government, including the rehabilitation and resettling of nomads who had lost their flocks during the 1974-5 Deba-Dhere drought. These destitute former herdsmen have been settled in farming and fishing co-operatives between the two perennial rivers of south-western Somalia. Other projects include the north-south tarmac highway, built with Chinese technical help, which connects the two main regions of the Somali Republic and thus has both economic and political roles to play. Other projects undertaken by the Barre regime, though less successful, have instilled a co-operative spirit and a work-ethic that had been woefully lacking in the Somalia of the 1960s. The germ of this new spirit is most discernable in the numerous revolutionary youth centres that have been established in recent years. I recall having been very moved by one of the songs sun by orphan girls who had known no other home but such a centre, and no other parent but the state:

 

It is a time of pleasant suprises

When one journeys from a place of

drought and desolation

to one of plenty and prosperity

 

There was a time

When I did not know my lineage

Now I have a father in [President] Siad.

A mother in the October Revolution

The flag is my uncle,

The land my grandfather,

The soil my grandmother...

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w175/Cumar_2007/AbdiSheikhAbdi.jpg

 

M S Barre changed the "Whom do you know?" question in to the "What do you know?" which aimed at strengthening the sense of unity and non-tribal identification.

 

I believe things started going downhill after Ina Yusuf staged a clan-based coup and created the first clan-based militia that made M S Barre suspicious (begin 80's) and started confining to his own group.

 

Nevertheless, M S Barre has achieved initially what no Somali has achieved before and that is uniting Somalis for the first time and that is an undeniable fact.

 

Sources:

 

 

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w175/Cumar_2007/WilliamZartman.jpg

 

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w175/Cumar_2007/PeterWoodward.jpg

 

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w175/Cumar_2007/MilitaryRegimes-1.jpg

 

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w175/Cumar_2007/MilitaryRegimes.jpg

 

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w175/Cumar_2007/KirsternHolstPetersenNuruddinFarahc.jpg

 

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w175/Cumar_2007/DavidLaitin5.jpg

 

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w175/Cumar_2007/DavidLaitin4.jpg

 

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w175/Cumar_2007/DavidLaitin3.jpg

 

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w175/Cumar_2007/DavidLaitin2.jpg

 

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w175/Cumar_2007/DavidLaitin1.jpg

 

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w175/Cumar_2007/Apostolopoulos.jpg

 

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w175/Cumar_2007/AbdiSheikhAbdi.jpg

Where did you find these sources from Cumar? They were enlightening to say the least!

[RedSea]

So what are we yapping on about now?

 

Siyad Barre was ruthless SOB period,there is no way to sugar coat that. He is the reason that you are all stuck on foreign soil as immigrants and the reason that your country is in flames as we speak.

 

Lik it or not that is the plain truth.

[Gabbal]

Red Sea, clearly this seems to be a presentation of a part of history that is, how shall I say, conveniently, left out when discussing Somalia's modern history. What is your contention? That we shouldn't discuss history :confused:

[xiinfaniin]

^^Barre was a model and he deserves to be imitated and followed even after his death.

The stories of Mudug being targeted or Somaliland being bombed are pure fabrication.

 

With all the breathing politicians today, and after long survey and search, the only man who can come close to Barre’s resolve and good governance is, without a shadow of doubt, the honorable Minister Hiiraale! You see, president Barre’s good deeds and the accounts of his vast contribution to the wellbeig of our nation are well documented and reserved.

 

So let the people like Xiin, whom you know personally, bay the way, and others rant for eternity~~

[Emperor]

^

 

Barre have made better contribution to the Somali history and well being than the seccionists. He was the former Somali President and no doubt made great mistakes but nevetheless, a Somali leader.

[Cumar]

N/AA, the sources are from a database of e-books.

 

 

Mj. bada Cas, this clearly demonstrates that you are one of these youngsters who from young on were imparted with propagandic thoughts like "M S Barre bad!", "SNM Mujahidun!" without actually questioning these statements.

 

I am not sugarcoating anything; it is part of history and is researchable, just like how the atrocities of the SNM are widely documented. The reason that we are 'countryless' is not because of M S Barre, rather is it because of the rebel movements who duped the masses under the pretext of 'liberation' whilst they were hungry for power.

 

To clarify this, let us look at the USC. The USC, upon capturing and "liberating" Xamar, started a cleansing program killing over tens of thousands Somalis in the first few weeks and over 500,000 Somalis in the long run. Caydiid wouldn't accept the idea that someone else beside him rule Somalia and started targetting his enemies who were once allied with him and killing over tens of thousands of Somalis.

 

SNM also demonstrated this type of behaviour. Tuur who was the last chairman of the SNM group denounced the creation of 'Somaliland' after he lost the power struggle to Cigaal and fled to Xamar to become Caydiid's vice-president.

 

Asteris Huliaras in The Viability of Somaliland: Internal Constraints and Regional Geopolitics writes:

 

Mohammed Egal’s election was not without controversy. His first two years in office as President of Somaliland converted some of his adversaries into bitter rivals. In the second half of 1994, members of a clan militia clashed with the government and its ***** supporters. By the end of the year, the conflict had pushed large numbers of the capital’s population to take refuge along the Ethiopian border.

Nevertheless, what looked like an endless and senseless feud between rival clans was to a certain extent a more classical conflict of power. Politicians who were defeated in the 1993 Borama election distributed money among clan militias to foment opposition to the new president and helped to promote fighting in the towns of Burao and Hargeisa

(Compagnon 1998:85).

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w175/Cumar_2007/power.jpg

 

It all comes down to thirst of power that has cost the lives of tens of thousands of Somalis. It was first initiated by Cabdulaahi Yusuf who created the first clan-based militia and attempted the first clan-based coup and the legacy continues with the warlords that roam around the streets of Xamar.

[Gabbal]

Cumar, you are a breath of fresh air in this otherwise humid environment if I say so myself!