I remember SNM's crimes against my people !

[xiinfaniin]

Roob, every thing you said about Somaliland could be said about Puntland. They are both peaceful and have some semblance of government. So you can’t honestly differentiate Somaliland from the rest of Somalia on the basis of what you just listed up there. I would even go further and assert, short of colonial legacy, there is no difference today between Somaliland and Puntland. Rationalizing separatist agenda on the basis of peace, stability, and good governance is clearly a broken argument.

 

There is got to be more to why one of these two regions wants to secede while the other is content to stay with the Somali fold, no?

[roobleh]

^First, Somaliland is different from Puntland because Puntland never claimed its independence from Somalia. But, Somaliland rightfully seperated itself from Somalia in 1991.

 

Secondly, though Puntland is the most peaceful region in Somalia, but its people do not have a say in their regional government just like the rest of Somalia. However, Somaliland people have a say in what kind of government they want and have voted for their independence from Somalia. They have a democratically elected president and parliament, and also have three political parties. Puntland have non of those. I hope you understand such huge differences between them, brother xiin.

[xiinfaniin]

Rooble,

 

You are still dodging to address the difficulty I posed to you. What is the compelling rationale for Somaliland’s need to separate?

 

The differences you cited do not really warrant for that region to secede. Further more, all of the distinctions you made are political strides in nature, and in fact it’s a matter of time before Puntlanders boast on achieving it. Thusly, and as you can see, that’s hardly a ‘huge difference’ as you put it.

[Faarax-Brawn]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

Rooble

,

 

You are still dodging to address the difficulty I posed to you. What is the compelling rationale for Somaliland’s need to separate?

 

The differences you cited do not really warrant for that region to secede. Further more, all of the distinctions you made are political strides in nature, and in fact it’s a matter of time before Puntlanders boast on achieving it. Thusly, and as you can see, that’s hardly a ‘huge difference’ as you put it.

But Xiin,if the People of the former British Somaliland want to seccede,who should stop them?

 

I beleive though,when you are in a joint union with another entity,you should discuss it with that particular party. So,until Somalia is a state,i dont see JSL going Solo(recognition)

[Elysian]

Originally posted by Faarax-Brown

So,until Somalia is a state,i dont see JSL going Solo(recognition)

FB walaal, the above statement really doesn't make sense. How long must S/Land wait patiently to get the divorce papers... how long will it take before Somalia rises up again from the mayhem? And when it does so (inshaallah) what if they say no to divorce... then what?

[xiinfaniin]

Faarax, tell me what makes the people of Somaliland different, say than people of Bay? Is it the legacy of British colony or something else? If it's the latter then i want good Rooble to tell us what it is. If it's the first then, well, i want Rooble to say so as well. Then we can have a debate if being colonized by a particular breed of white Europeans gives one more rights than others.

 

Understanding the fundamentals of nationhood is in order here.

[Faarax-Brawn]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

Faarax, tell me what makes the people of Somaliland different, say than people of Bay? Is it the legacy of British colony or something else? If it's the latter then i want good Rooble to tell us what it is. If it's the first then, well, i want Rooble to say so as well. Then we can have a debate if being colonized by a particular breed of white Europeans gives one more rights than others.

 

Understanding the fundamentals of nationhood is in order here.

In all fairness,that really doesnt fit well in this argument, Because,Bay didnt get independence & went into a union with Somalia.

 

The thing is,If the people of JSL,who mind you decided to join their brothers in the 60s,decide to secede,then who really has the mandate to tell them NO?

 

Elysian,i understand where you coming from,but you cant just walk away from a partnership,there has to be a dialogue(and some understanding) right?

[Elysian]

Well FB I wouldn't call S/Lands efforts for independence is an easy walk. And who should we ask for our independence... Abdullahi Yusuf?

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by Faarax-Brown:

In all fairness,that really doesnt fit well in this argument, Because,Bay didnt get independence & went into a union with Somalia.

 

The thing is,If the people of JSL,who mind you decided to join their brothers in the 60s,decide to secede,then who really has the mandate to tell them NO?

^^Aaah it's the fact that the British colonized the place for some years in last century. Say it that way adeer as it’s the truth behind this push.

 

With all fairness, Faarax, I found this type of argument quite ridiculous to say the least. When Somalis are most needy of a unity and collaboration between them as they are preyed on from all corners, some would want us to believe colonial sketches, and an illegal one at mind you, have somehow a distinct sacredness that would qualify some of us to declare the unity of the Somali nation null and void. Reer Baydhabo can’t do that, good Faarax says, because they were not particularly segmented and encircled with the said sketch! Puntlanders can’t do it either for the same reason good Faarax cited. Only Somalilanders have the luxury to be a country of its own and separate from the rest of us!

 

That’s a lame bullet adeer. Waa dhemish yaa Faarax! Let the real landers present a better argument than that...

[ElPunto]

^Well said Xiin. F-B is right in the sense that a dialogue is necessary to a reach a resolution(as opposed to war) but the basis for independance is not something that was reasonably articulated.

[Faarax-Brawn]

^Whoa,Sug bal.

 

The whole argument is on the colonials adeer. It shows,how these two partners were different entities before they joined hands. Great Britain & Italia were different & they granted inpedendence to both colonies @ different times.

 

The adminstration was different,the leadership was different,everything was different. The only common thing was Somalinimo & JSL & its people decided to join their brethren that were divided by the whiteman.

 

I think its weaker argument on your end to dismiss the importance of the colonial masters. It shows how these two partners were different colonies,well at least thats what they are arguing from.

 

I however understand thats it the moral thing for Somalis to be united but You cant just brush this off an claim it as another province,really its not.

 

Elysian,The leadership of JSL went into parnership with the leadership of italian Somalia, When and if inshallah a govt elected by the people of Somalia comes in,then JSL needs to sit down and formulate this. Afterall this was a UNION not forceful encarvment of someland(like OG region & NFD).

[ElPunto]

^I don't think anyone is dismissing the different colonial history of the two sides. Or that the two entities werw separate. But if that is the sole basis of the move for independance - essentially we were once separate now we want it back - then that is the weak argument.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Faarax, at the first oppurtunity let me allow you to escape with your colonial argument. Lets assume that SLanders really feel different from us becuase they had different colonial masters. Just for a minute. OK. Who's a Somalilander? A particular clan? Who's advocating Somalia's dismemberment adeer? What say you about those who were among Slanders then when it was under the British colony but refused to be part of it now?

 

Do you think separatist’s argument would hold water if a significant portion of the original territory they marked for their would-be state are not on board with their agenda? The holes of their argument are countless runtii…as far as I am concern the project of separation comes down to a political grievance. There are many ways to address it but their current presentation of it is quite silly, I say.

 

What do you say Faaraxow?

 

edit:

ThePoint, I saw that you had in custody most of the secessionist’s lame arguments in the other thread. I trust you with our good Faarax; please detain him for me till I come back tomorrow IA.

[Faarax-Brawn]

Aduunyo,The Point iyo Xiin oo in agreement ah? This is taking valuable time off the Larger Somali issue ina abtiyaal

 

My question to you guys is,If the leadership & the people of Somaliland,decided to join their brothers some decades ago & decide not to be a part of it no more,Who has the right to keep them in?

 

Forget the morality of this all,lets say that the ppl of Somaliland really feel different from the southerners,what if they really dont wanna be a part of a union anymore?

[roobleh]

You are still dodging to address the difficulty I posed to you. What is the compelling rationale for Somaliland’s need to separate?

As Farah-Brown said, who's going to stop them to do so? well, no one can. Xiin, dont you understand that in democracy 'power belongs to people.' It was the Somalilanders who decided to unite with the rest of Somalia in the 60s. That was not a forced union, remember. Therefore, don't you think they have the moral right to secede from the union for whatever reason.

 

I know those of you who do not shy away from the silly phrase that 'Somaliland people cannot decide to secede' are such those who cannot even agree on what government they want to have in Somalia. It is such kind of attitude that have destroyed the country and silenced many Somalis who could have made Somalia a better place to live in. My advice to you is to forget about Somaliland, and think about the mothers and children of your country, Somalia, who constantly live in fear and hunger.