Puntland Will Secede -- if Yussuf Led TFG loses

[Che -Guevara]

A&T..It doesn't matter what I know or what I don'y. What matters if people are willing to declare and air their grievances. I don't work on suppositions. I must know I'm actually apoligizing for the right accusations.

 

Just to give an example, my family have been kicked out of Mogadisho solely on the basis of their Qabiil. As victim, I'm willing to state my grievances against those who did this injustices.

 

We are not gonna get anywhere if everybody don't truly speak their mind and share their interests are.

 

Little honesty will go along way. And kudos to Deputy, I think our problems are deeper Qabiil vs Qabiil.

[Sir-Qalbi-Adeyg]

A&T

 

I don't understand how you are blaming the ***** clan, abdullahi yusuf will always have the support of puntland and his clan, that is true but he's never been interested in tribal hegemony . Now if you said you are blaming the '*****' tribe, that's understandble. I don't mind being blamed for trying to revive the somali republic.

 

There were more ***** like the ***** fighting against the TFG than ***** tribe. This has nothing to do with tribes, but more about ideology. The TFG and abdullahi yusuf always represent somali's who are interested in peace, government and rule of law well at least at the beginning. While the al shabab represent somali's extremist, former looters turned shiecks, ignorance and lack of education etc.

 

Naxar Nugaleed

 

I'm not interested in babysitting savages and secessionists anymore, I say let them cannibalize each other and let's move forward and work on our regions. We have oil, a long coastline, resourceful and intelligent citizen in punt-land. What do we need Mogadishu and the south for?

 

Puntland has the potential to be the dubai of east of africa if the leadership was competent and not interested in engaging the south.

 

[ November 21, 2008, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[Liqaye]

"Now if you said you are blaming the '*****' tribe, that's understandble. I don't mind being blamed for trying to revive the somali republic."

 

Hehehe that is called a double bind like asking a girl for her home or mobile number when she hasnt even agreed to give you her number

 

[ November 21, 2008, 12:12 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by Deputy:

Jaale Xiin I posted the above before you posted yours, I was not referring to the puntland or somaliland, I have had only a passing intreast in bantustans.

 

I get it for your peace caravan to succeed some sort of negotiation must take place as the swahilis might say sawa sawa.

 

But perhaps another scenario is the TFG just curling up and dying.

Liqaye,

 

Tfg for some is AY. I, for one, however don’t think so. I think it's a political arrangement that's only legitimate in the eyes of those who invested time and money in it. The measure of its survival in my mind is not whether it succeeds on the ground and exerts authority. The real measure is whether those who ascribed to it the token legitimacy it so far enjoyed still see some value in it.

 

I still think that to be the case. It could die and crumble, but that didn’t happen yet. I can grant you that if the tfg evaporates, as you seem to suggest, this version of Jabbuuti peace agreement will be amiss. Needless to say another batch of caravans will have to be sent to continue the peace and reconciliation process.

[Baashi]

Waxa-La-Yirri has no new confirmed feeds. The team is experiencing a black out. We know that Ethiopia is lobbying very hard in order to convince its allies within IGAD to support the proposed sanctions. Inna Yussuf’s marathon through the region is to achieve the opposite. The feeds we got last night are corrupted and we could not make of any sense beyond the obvious.

 

That being said nomads lets understand one thing about this portal. While Somali politicking are not predictable the personalities involved are somewhat known commodities. As such Waxa-La-Yirri team can say with some certainty where each actor in Somali drama default position will be in time of crisis.

 

By crisis we mean high stake political poker game where political career of the concerned politicians is at stake. This is no Potomac version where Potomac rules apply. Political career of the politician weighs heavily on the balance and in most cases takes precedence over all other interests be it national or even clannish.

 

Drawing from pool of anonymous sources ranging from gossipy type Maqaaxi & Biibito version, internet xaafado, to direct phone calls to folks who are close to the target politician; our team is positioned to gauge political climate in order to bring much needed balanced view to the public. We cross check sources by spying unknowing and unwilling contacts from opposing camps.

 

Our organization does not consider what the masses want or desires. We think of them as lambs -- lambs that put their trust in hyena’s leadership. We only focus on newsmakers. This report should be read through these lenses. It is different take of the events viewed from different perspective -- much like Goodman’s alternative news. It is another plausible but balanced cantrabaqash.

 

Our aim is to inform folks about the true nature of the target politician. Sometimes we miss the mark by half a mile. Other times we hit three inches away from the nail ruining the platform and in some rare cases we get it just right. Yes we are aware the fact that Waxa-La-Yirri media has a mixed record.

 

Having said let us turn to the comments posted. Most assumed our cantrabaqash to be a forgone conclusion. Others put the carte before the horse to paraphrase that tired cliché. They are all wrong.

 

For starters Puntland is not seceding. Inna Yussuf, a heavy weight in Puntland politics might see secession as a bargaining chip if he loses the poker game currently under way in the region. There are many side effects that will follow suit in the event he comes out from this hardball empty handed. Chief among them is his role in provincial admin in the regional autonomy in Puntland.

 

The complication stems from the fact that Inna Yussuf is neither a candidate for PL leadership nor an incumbent. In the likely event that Nur’s TFG wing tries and succeeds to depose him, he is expected to set up a shop in Puntland and lead his wing of TFG from there. If all fails those who follow this old guns career understand that he won’t deliver PL region on a silver platter to those who defeated him politically.

[Sir-Qalbi-Adeyg]

Deputy

 

I'm sure that's where he was going, I'm helping him get to his destination a little faster. Let's not hide under the umbrella of *****? ****** has never been a united clan, and some of the worst civil war atrocities in the south have been committed by ******s against each other.

 

[ November 21, 2008, 12:14 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[AfricaOwn]

Originally posted by Protocol:

I'm not interested in babysitting savages and secessionists anymore, I say let them cannibalize each other and let's move forward and work on our regions.

"let them cannibalize each other" Hahaha You're truly are confused. Who was accused of saying this since 91?

 

We're the seccessionists group, and you're aspiring to be what? My child..Somaliland has taught you how walk,and now this the thanks you give them?

 

Go ahead and re-order the Somaliland flag colors to make it your official new puntland flag as well.

[Sir-Qalbi-Adeyg]

Africaown

 

Listen ******, What has somaliland taught anyone besides how to prostitute one's self to any foreigner that will listen?

 

My views are unfotunately those of a minority, majority of puntlanders are still interested in greater somalia, unlike secessionists who get some sick satisfaction from the political turmoil in the south. Your people's hypocrisy can easily be spotted.

 

You've been crying for secession for 17 years now, what has it gotten you?

 

Puntland is a more viable state than 'somaliland', bossaso port earns more revenue than berbera(ethiopian port).

 

What has your 'government' done for the last 17 years? cigaal looted and stole what little income you people make from selling khat and or your women, and Riyaale started where he left off and today your cities have the highest rates of HIV in somalia, ethiopia controls and uses your port willingly and no international organization takes the independence of the khat republic seriously.

 

While those of you in the diaspora keep waving the iranian flag like the ****** ***** you are, completely unaware of reality.

 

You people are a sad sight sxb, and if anything, puntland could learn from all the mistakes you've made.

 

[ November 21, 2008, 12:16 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[Liqaye]

Tfg for some is AY. I, for one, however don’t think so. I think it's a political arrangement that's only legitimate in the eyes of those who invested time and money in it.

 

Jalle Xiin there has always been a very big weakness in the arguments you put forward for the peace caravan, from your "peace is the only option" which is perfectly justifiable to Baashi's "the alternative is worst", the weakness has always been the lack of understanding on what the TFG is.

The transistional federal goverment was created by and for those that wish to destroy the very essence of somalinimo , be they warlords or the ethiopians and kenyans.

A such they have failed in every single reasonable and legitimate yardstick that might be used to measure their success in establishing even a modicum of governance with in the little village of baidoa let alone the whole of somalia.

 

THOSE that have invested time and money in it as you say not only do not WANT peace but rather cannot HAVE peace as it is an existential threat to what they are.

 

From the beginning I have said neither Nuur or SHARIF CAN DELIVER however much we might want that to be the case walaal.

 

This particular peace caravan is derailed, to get of it and reflect on why and start another is the preeminent need rather than wasting mental power we have on wearing gradma's clothes in the hopes she will wake up.

 

To paraphrase brother but this struggle against the TFG is one of centralisation and somalinimo against daba*****nimo and decentralization of the very somali psyche that baashi refers to as a self evident with out referring back to its causes.

Xiin and Baashi those of us who beleive in a just and united somalia under islam and equality are marching in a compact group along a precipitous and difficult path, some of us in somalia under the boom of mortar and some of us in cyberspace and in mobilizing public opinion, firmly holding each other by the hand. We are surrounded on all sides by enemies, those who are clannists and those who are afar jeeble, and we have to advance almost constantly under their fire.

I beleive we have combined, by a freely adopted decision, for the purpose of fighting the enemy in this case the TFG but in all cases a particular mindset, and not of retreating into the neighboring marsh of pointless compromise to our very principles, the inhabitants of which, from the very outset, have reproached us with having separated ourselves into an exclusive group and with having chosen the path of struggle instead of the path of conciliation. And now some among us begin to cry out: Let us go into the marsh! And when we begin to shame them, they retort: What backward people you are! Are you not ashamed to deny us the liberty to invite you to take a better road!Calling us at time cyber jihadis and cyber waranles Oh, yes, gentlemen! You are free not only to invite us, but to go yourselves wherever you will, even into the marsh. In fact, we think that the marsh is your proper place if you do not see what is so blatantly obvious, and we are prepared to render you every assistance to get there. Only let go of our hands, don’t clutch at us and don’t besmirch the grand word freedom, for we too are “free” to go where we please, free to fight not only against the marsh, but also against those who are turning towards the marsh!

[AfricaOwn]

Originally posted by Protocol:

Africaown

 

Listen ******, What has somaliland taught anyone besides how to prostitute one's self to any foreigner that will listen?

 

My views are unfotunately those of a minority, majority of puntlanders are still interested in greater somalia, unlike secessionists who get some sick satisfaction from the political turmoil in the south. Your people's hypocrisy can easily be spotted.

 

You've been crying for secession for 17 years now, what has it gotten you?

 

Puntland is a more viable state than 'somaliland', bossaso port earns more revenue than berbera(ethiopian port).

 

What has your 'government' done for the last 17 years? cigaal looted and stole what little income you people make from selling khat and or your women, and Riyaale started where he left off and today your cities have the highest rates of HIV in somalia, ethiopia controls and uses your port willingly and no international organization takes the independence of the khat republic seriously.

 

While those of you in the diaspora keep waving the iranian flag like the ***** ***** you are, completely unaware of reality.

 

You people are a sad sight sxb, and if anything, puntland could learn from all the mistakes you've made.

Just quote him..for the sake of it . I love the love homie. I'm just as ignorant trust me - I'm no better, but I wouldn't say this stuff on a message board. I will bring it to you directly.

 

[ November 21, 2008, 12:18 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by Deputy:

Tfg for some is AY. I, for one, however don’t think so. I think it's a political arrangement that's only legitimate in the eyes of those who invested time and money in it.

 

Jalle Xiin there has always been a very big weakness in the arguments you put forward for the peace caravan, from your "peace is the only option" which is perfectly justifiable to Baashi's "the alternative is worst", the weakness has always been the lack of understanding on what the TFG is.

The transistional federal goverment was created by and for those that wish to destroy the very essence of somalinimo , be they warlords or the ethiopians and kenyans.

A such they have failed in every single reasonable and legitimate yardstick that might be used to measure their success in establishing even a modicum of governance with in the little village of baidoa let alone the whole of somalia.

 

THOSE that have invested time and money in it as you say not only do not WANT peace but rather cannot HAVE peace as it is an existential threat to what they are.

 

From the beginning I have said neither Nuur or SHARIF CAN DELIVER however much we might want that to be the case walaal.

 

The TFG is an instrument whose chief usefulness lies in its international recognition. Its ability to get anything postive done rests with the support and cooperation of all Somalis. It is a modifiable instrument - the actors of today need not be the actors of tomorrow or next week. The ability of Somalis to come together and agree on a way out of the morass is not contingent on a disbanding of it. The support it has from Somalia's regional enemies does not preclude Somalia from moving forward with the resolution of its own internal divisions.

 

We've seen so many false dawns and premature claims of victory - UIC rule of the south, TFG takeover of Mog, now the Shabaab and related groups retaking territory. Ultimately - it doesn't matter what one party is or what they call themselves. It's about agreeing on a way forward even if it is with shaydan himself.

[Liqaye]

^^^ Nice very succinct.

Firstly the TFG is an instrument whose only usefulness lies in its international recognition as envisioned by the Ethiopians in their creation of this entity to agree to their terms in all issues, as well as the warlords and Afar jebeleyal who participated in its creation in the hopes of accessing the western inflows of aid and thereby legitimacy ala the siyad barre regime in the late 80's.

International recognition is at the very best tenuous and shallow and ebbs away if it were not for the frantic efforts of the good intentioned sheikh.

while indeed the ability of Somalis to come together and agree on a way out of the current impasse is not congintent on the existence of the TFG the insistence on this precondition by the good intentioned is what I found remarkable.

"The support it has from Somalia's regional enemies does not preclude Somalia from moving forward with the resolution of its own internal divisions." There shall be no resolution of the somali impasse that will be genuine and long lasting with the proxies of Ethiopia and Kenya at the table, expecially when theu bear the mantle of a legitimate goverment, how ever much the good intentioned would like to ignore this the facts of 18 years of at times blatant and always present manipulation of the somali dilemma by ethiopia in particular will not allow any genuine reconciliation shall occur in somalia.

As for the UIC the Shabaab e.t.c my only concern is how much closer they bring us to the somali polity we search for rather than the details of battle here and there.

 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions if that is to abstract a notion resuscitating the TFG certainly is.

[xiinfaniin]

In avoidance of turning Baashi’s post into another caravan debate, let me say to brother Liqaye

: My argument may be weak, and even my conviction that the only way out of this mess goes through compromise and dialogue between Somali factions may be delusional . But the notion the alshabaab type strategy will usher a new era of peace and stability sounds even weaker. It’s reactionary and only good at opposing things, perhaps destroying things but from what I can tell, it's an empty loom!

 

Time will tell, waa haddii alla na gaarsiiyyee!

[Liqaye]

I again I do not care about alshabaab or the UIC or mohamed Aideed or galmudug state or puntland or somaliland or RRA land, their policies, strategies, and tactics evoke my feeling in only one aspect will they bring peace, even if it means the stamping down of all opposition through the instict of self preservation?

TFG has failed even in this Brother Xiin, your intentions are good but let this contemptible fraud die, and with hope how ever weak look forward to new realities and new caravans with this carcass out of the way.

[Sir-Qalbi-Adeyg]

AfricaOwn

 

Everything I said is fact, but perhaps I was too blunt. Take it as advice more than anything else sxb.