Puntland Will Secede -- if Yussuf Led TFG loses

[Abtigiis]

Well, precisely it is because what you said is true about hate and contempt, why I think soultion should come through the Islamic banner.

 

on the clan issue, Kuwa laga cabanayo ayey u taal inay boogtii bogsiiyaan.

 

1- Elders of the ***** clan should declare that the genocide against the people of the North, perpetrated in their name, was wrong and apologise for the crimes.

 

2- The same elders should call upon their southern brothers to embrace peace, and should dispel any fears of a return to the old days if leadership comes from them. They should unequivocally declare that the post of President (with executive powers) should come from the people of Mogdisho.

 

Once this happens, I am thinking it will set of a proces where others reciprocate and the people of Bay and Bakool will be asked for their forgiveness by the clans who starved them.

 

Even if it is a wishful thinking, the mere gesture will serve as a symbolic move towards reconciliation and will open the arena for positive engagement.

 

On the political side, the Alshabab and the courts must take over the country, and once they bring law and order back (for no other body can do this), the next phase of mobilising intellectuals, Culuma, moderates among them, and the Islamic world to reign on them must be started.

 

If Hassen D. Aweys, and Turki can be lobbyed to allow free elections and broader political participation by Intellectuals (not seen as too secular, It will nice. I believe it can be done. Mukhatr wax qabtana la waayi maayo.

 

Inta kalena, madrasooyin iyo iskuulaa loo kala diri.

 

Koley Xassen Turki wiilkiisa anigaa aqaan oo aabahay waan qaban hadiii liiska argagixisada laga saaro ayuu leeyahay!

 

[ November 21, 2008, 12:23 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[Liqaye]

^^^

As atavastically enjoyable it is to watch this self flagellation by some, I have to say A&T that the blight in Somalia has nothing to do with any particular clan but rather with a mindset found across all somali groupings and clan federations, no one owes any one anything on a "clan" level but only the genuine urge for individual somalis to reconcile at all levels will be the panacea if there is any of the somali problem.

 

The genocide in somalia was prepetuated across clan lines by the strong against the weak, that is the common denominator, somali society was one based on strength purely and the upper hand negating all other principles of somali society or somali culture.

 

In that all somalis are culpable trust me even if the all that you wrote above was done the results will be the dismal same old the time factor only being up for intepretation.

 

Abdirazaq/abshir/jama these are men who if they were elected at mbagathi would have been accorded all honour in mogadishu and else where for they were recognised as just men and trust me mogadishu would have supported them over a yalahow, aideed, or botan isse.

 

Finally A&T consider this a people get the leadership they deserve, that time it was barre but it could have been Gabeyre, today it is yusuf but it could have been Feisal waraabe.

[xiinfaniin]

It does not please me to see Aw Tusbaxle’s long, and mighty labor produce the mouse that’s, as Malika aptly called it, this political vice!

 

Kaliyya waxaan oran lahaa: ma intaasaad rimanayd

 

As for Baashi's waxa layiri stuff: I dont see PL seceding. I dont even see SL seceding. AY may be gone and done with, but I still blve the political arrengment that 's tfg is here to staty!

[Liqaye]

why?

Why do you insist on that when the realities on the ground minute by minute disprove that notion?

Why are you insisting on covering up that cabals blushes?

Really?

[Abtigiis]

Deputy has very valid points. I think his analysis is better than mine here and more general. But I still will think the share of blame is not distributed equally among all clans.

 

And when it comes to the people of the North, they have not been part to this reciprocal mayhem. Dadkaas waa lagu gafay baan qabaa! Mana aha nidaam dawladeed oo kaliya, ee qabiil ahaana waa loola diriray.

 

Xinn,

 

awoowe, anna meeshi lagugu weeraraba inaan difaac ku dhinto, adna kolkaad iin yar ii heshid durban idaba qaadatid halkaad iga asturi laheyd, ma xeerbaa?

 

Peace Caravan'ka meel inaga dhig isaga'oo bal TFGmaxay ku danbeyn bay kula tahay? Ma TFG'da ciidanka ilaalada Nuur cadde ku aamini la' cid aan xaafada aheyn yaad lee dahay way sii socon?

[nuune]

Would there ever be a solution where there are no clan attached to it!

 

 

I will say, lets have an Obama Style President, someone who hails from outside and don't have any connections to any Somali Clan.

[Abtigiis]

Che,

 

meesha dee academic and hypthetical solutions ka maynaan hadleyn.

 

If so, I will tell you let Prof. Abdi Ismaacil Samater be elected President. Or let Sheekh Mustafa Sh. Ismaacil rule the nation.

[Che -Guevara]

A&T..You are contradicting and setting precedents at the same time.

 

On the first issue about north, you may sound as the group you blame were Nazi Germany who subscribe to one ideology. There wasn't clear mandate to systemically murder or oppress anyone. The north's issue is with the entire south who sat idly while fellow citizens were massacred. If there is specific allegation against any group, the northerns can explicitly say so, and we will go from there.

 

And the issue of Xamer who associate with just one group though it is the seat of the Somali government, I don't like new precedents sets in motion the idea somehow someone is entiltled to office cuz historical injustices . And isn't that what you are advocating to abolish anyway?

 

The issue of the people of Bay/Bakool, why should the apologies and the acknowledgement of their sufferings be tied to what others do?

 

I'm all for reconciling, and seeing a better Somalia, but I just don't see that happening if one group is made to repent while others just get rewarded and made to believe they are not responsible for their own actions.

 

The *****-people are guilty, but everything that happen in Somalia is not just their doing.

 

There needs to be a better solutions that changes the culture and outlook of Somalis, and builds cohesive nation based on justice and equity.

 

[ November 21, 2008, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[xiinfaniin]

Liqaye, I would normally trust your observation but I have to ask you what 'realities on the ground ' suggest that PL is seceding, or SL is closer to indepedence, or for that matter tfg is about to disapear.

 

I dont really think last few days drama signifies a looming political gamechanger event!

 

Yey even if he wants to cant abondon this tfg; he has no where to go. Nur is on the winning side or at least on the right side of the equation. The powers that be have invested so much into this that they cant really walk away with no alternative in sight....

[Liqaye]

A&T that is the crux of the matter isnt it, the concept of blame, well where does the blame stop and where does it start in the first place, does it start in 1959 when the head of the education department decided to award the three protectorate scolarships to the scuola superiore to his sub-clan member there by planting the first seeds of the resentment in the hearts of those who lost out?

When does it end with the last ethiopian soldeir crossing the border at ferfer or when payback is made?

Which crimes are more criminal? the rape of a somali girl in xamar as her family flees to kenya in 1991 or the rape of a girl in xamar as her family flees to afgoye in 2008?

Finnaly to whom do we assign blame? the clan as a whole as per your formula, or individuals with in the clan who might have benefited?

 

Forgive me brother, but I have heard this reasoning hundreds of times from a myriad of different clan members in a myriad of accents, with a myriad of emotional tones applied, there are those who think this way as they vividly recount personal experiences or trauma's and those that such your self considering assigning blame on the basis of "abstract" and deductive reasoning in the end brother..

waar eebow canaanta iska daaf, waynu wadha kaabna daawasho iyo ceebe!

 

It is odd why this emphasis on the TFG and who gives a damn about abdullahi yusuf anyway, even the cheerleaders are having their power naps and redbulls, awoowe xiin? what/who is their to negotiate with if not the woyane enemy as I have always said?

[Abtigiis]

Che, you said "The north's issue is with the entire south who sat idly while fellow citizens were massacred. If there is specific allegation against any group, the northern can explicitly say so, and we will go from there."

 

It was not! It was NOT! Let us hear from the horses' mouth then. Away Jacaylbaro? They blame a clan for it, and you know it.

 

Second, dealing with historical injustices is usually a good basis for rebuilding countries. So, while I am not saying it must be the way I said, the idea is not bad. Let the others feel secure as a start, and later when suspicions are done away with, let Meritocracy reign.

 

You misquoted me on the Bay/bakool. It is not a sequence, it must happen regardless. If I wasn't clear, let me do it again.

 

On the reconciliation, there is no shame if one becomes the pioneer in taking blames. Let the D start!

 

Xinn;

 

heede waayahaye, few days drama is not gamechanger, laakin nor do eternal journey which never rests as is your caravan! War ileen tan oo kale!

[ElPunto]

I don't believe Puntland will secede. It's just nonsense.

 

As for the rest - I ain't guilty of nothing. Wasn't born there, haven't been there.

[Liqaye]

Jaale Xiin I posted the above before you posted yours, I was not referring to the puntland or somaliland, I have had only a passing intreast in bantustans.

 

I get it for your peace caravan to succeed some sort of negotiation must take place as the swahilis might say sawa sawa.

 

But perhaps another scenario is the TFG just curling up and dying.

[Abtigiis]

Adigu Ottawa'daa da iska dhex joog. Odaygii ku keenay se inuu 4 SNM soo dilay ma war baad u haysaa?

 

Don't worry, point, Puntland will not seceed. If it does so, it will mark the start of one of the biggest humanitarian tragedy. Hunger will reign. Meesha waxba mayaalaan, and it cannot survive.

[ElPunto]

^War iska amus. Odaygaga last saw Somalia in 1975.