MAY 18th

[xiinfaniin]

As they say, when you discover you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

 

or may be no horse is too dead to beat!

[-Serenity-]

^^ So ur coming over to this side?

[xiinfaniin]

Why not, Dhuubo? A stopping ground for our fellow Landers is too tempting to miss, don’t you say?

[-Serenity-]

Stopping ground? Dont like the taste of it. Make the move or stay where u r.

[xiinfaniin]

Not a bad suggestion, but don’t you see that it wouldn’t sit well with our much-cherished nomadic culture.

[wind.talker]

Firstly to Mr. Wind.Talker

[/b]

,

 

...never argue with a

fool

;...your

lowly-comprehension

of any arguments, due to the sheer

low-intelligence

...

village's i-d-i-o-t

, if one were to compare the two of you in action;...for you, as a

double-bent anal-retentive village's cretin

, are essentially required around the kid's corners of this site(if they have any)

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL SXB, I checked and they don't have a kid's corner. SOL Admins, maybe y'all should have a Kid's Corner - and the village i.idot (i.e. wind.talker) can be a moderator. Think about it

 

Seriously, I was so offended by your comments. I feel like complaining to my hooyo about your insults, maybe there's a shed of truth to the village i.diot jibe (which you repeat ever-so-often). I would think - a grown-up man such as yourself - would rise above the gimmick of name-calling, as the representative of the Somaliland Republic in London. I pity the children who look up to you , as an "intellect" or what have you, while on your online persona, you trade insults with a kid (me )

 

But, at the end of the day, Somaliland still isn't an independent nation. Since you've exhausted kissing the Queen's ar$e, you should try asking for help from the Eritreans. You see, after their 30-year struggle, they declared independence and GAINED it . Don't blame me for the incompetence of Somaliland leaders who've made fake promises to millions of clueless Reer Waqooyi about independence and how an independent Hargeisa would look like Hong Kong!

 

FINAL SCORE:

 

wind.talker - Somaliland is NOT independent (5 points)

 

TOLSTOY - in my DREAM it is (1 point for effort)

 

And don't ever talk about Seattle. You live in the old junk city called London and you have the nerve to talk about Seatown? Negro please!

[Gabbal]

^LOOOOL

 

would rise above the gimmick of name-calling, as

the representative of the Somaliland Republic in London

.

What an important post! Sorry if I offend anyone, but this is the quote of the day.

[STOIC]

"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength."--Eric Hoffer

When are we getting over with the childish ploy in the political section?

[Baashi]

Amy, I noticed a trend honey, that’s all . This is a good discussion by any measure. No insult, no under hand comments, no hate speech, no name-calling, no bs at least from my side...if anything my posts have sparked healthy discussion of why should some of us celebrate for dismembering the country (note I’m for progress, peace, stability, and what not wether in Mogadishu, Bossaasso, Biadowa, or Hargeisa). Some of the nomads are very upset with the fact that this discussion is even taking place despite their call for the “landers†to boycott and ignore my posts and rightly and understandably so for their core beliefs had been questioned and they don’t have consistent principled reasons at their disposal to dismiss the charges that I made against secession.

 

Afro, I see you too have questions . Same here! I asked simple questions about the wisdom behind the secession. I thought the whole thing, from the get go, was motivated by sheer clannism. You’ve heard the responses. They ranged from something akin to ‘it’s not your business’ to ‘u are jealous that we made it’...and something in between. Every now and then you hear some emotional outburst that equates serious or critical discussions on the issue to hate and envy! Not all of the proponents of this side are that childish. In fact some have presented their thoughts as to why they justify the secession. So far they didn’t demonstrate enough reasons why the parts of what used to be British Somaliland has to secede.

 

Before I refute what our friend Mr. Tolstoy had to say about the issue let me say a word or two to the ones who have voiced different approach (no grievances or colonial legacy but rather something else that can differentiate Togdheer from Soul or Garowe) that articulates why parts of that corner of the country belong together and not to Somalia. I suspect the only reasonable argument there is what Northerner had alluded to namely the political impasse of Somalia and difficult of finding a common ground for the divergent interests of the Southern leaders (let alone the interest of the North westerners) is very difficult to reconcile. Therefore, this line of reasoning seems to be saying that since the current political problems is so difficult to solve, out of desperation the country should be dismembered for the time being. Very interesting line of thinking I must say. I don’t agree with that but it’s a very dignifying way of making the case for the secession.

 

This is for our esteemed Tolstoy. [putting my magnifying glasses ]

 

Let me thank you for taking the time to go through historical documents. I like very much when I’m dealing with someone who knows what he’s talking about. It’s imperative at the outset to get on the same page on the historical facts of the case. You have cited the colonial officer Mr. Ian Macloed’s take on the political development of Somalia at the eve of the imminent reunification. I haven’t seen that document but I take your word for it. Let’s put this in perspective shall we!

 

Italian Somaliland was in the British hands in 1942-1950. Defeated Italy had no real power in the deliberation of what to do with the subjugated indigenous nations. The new powers namely US and USSR had insisted to minimize what had been French and Britain playground for much of the 19 century. In 1949 the new powers made clear that they want Italian Somaliland be placed under UN Trusteeship. Britain resisted that and made the case as to why ethnic Somalis should be given a unified country. Here is what late British Foreign secretary Mr. Ernest Bevin making the case had to say and I quote him:

 

“At about the time we occupied our part, the Ethiopians occupied an inland area which is the grazing grounds for nearly half the nomads of the British Somaliland for six months of the year. Similarly, the nomads from the Italian Somaliland must cross the existing frontier in search of water. In all innocence, therefore, we proposed that British Somaliland, Italian Somaliland and adjacent part of Ethiopia, if Ethiopia agreed, should be lumped together as a trust territory, so that the nomads should lead their frugal existence with the least hindrance and there might be a real chance of decent economic life as understood in that territory.â€

 

Notice the word “innocence†used by the secretary to convince his audience that Britain had no sinister geopolitical plans which is the suspicion US and USSR had at the time. Now, where does the secretary’s understanding of the reality of divided and exploited Somalis leave Mr. Ian Macloed’s affinity to his subjects who are about to realize what everyone understood and Pan-Somalists so eloquently articulated at time? The notion that bigger, more populous, better endowed (eight million acres of arable land with two rivers), more advanced infrastructure, and better trained administrative officers (ten years of self rule under Trusteeship arrangement) must share (ask on what basis, population or what?) power equally with the North was not only unreasonable proposition but it was counter productive to the aspiration of the young nation that was about to emerge. The reason they didn’t heed Mr. Ian Macloed’s advice is exactly because they knew the reality on the ground and they were not interested the British-Italian old masters’ geopolitical rivalry. The USP (party representing Awdal and Sool/Sanaag) and SNL (more populous tribe of the area) would have disagreed the proposition of hard bargaining anyway had they asked to employ foreign expertise with sinister agenda taking part the unification!

 

Moving on to the other points you’ve made in your latest post. Northerner dared to reason independently and veered from the “groupthink†rehearsed line. His mistake was he engaged with likes of me. He should have listen to Lander or you for that matter and stick, as it were, with the polar opposite formulation. I’ve seen Ngonge struggling with the tremendous peer pressure. Tolstoy the “Whip†is rallying the troops and let’s take a look what he had to say.

 

First, he articulates why the corruption and incompetence should not got in the way of believing in everything Somaliland. The exhortation that blood was shed for the dearly held cause of Somaliland is common recurring theme in his posts. Who shed their dear blood and put their neck on the line he wouldn’t say! For parts of former British Somaliland don’t share this history with those heroes Mr. Tolstoy is asking others to remember for their sacrifices and their role in the new Somaliland. One must assume that he is not referring to Sool, Sanaag, and Awdal clans. If you sense clannism you are right. That’s what it is! Clearly you can’t ask others to glorify history in which they are implicated! Here, is where the house of cards some of the diehard secessionists fall apart. Likewise, here is when these some ones got mad at me and accuse me all sorts of things. Simple critical analysis, is it not?

 

Yet what keeps Mr. Tolstoy's calm, as he told us, is the knowledge of the price his militia clan had paid for the cause of Somaliland. If this blood is the spiritual sacrifice that trumps the occasional mishaps that fallible politicians are known to make what should be the moral inspiration other shareholders of Somaliland should remind themselves when frustrated with the way their new “country†is run? Should they say because the fate had it that we were colonized by Britain and hence we should be loyal to the state?

 

Secondly, another common recurring theme is the messianic world outlook he likes to depict when citing critical events of Somali political history. Good triumphing over evil and history vindicating his beloved people is what he is so fond off telling when he got the chance. You would think what Tolstoy is talking about is not so much of someone who hails from Kismayo or for that matter civilians who had paid the double price of being against the dictatorships of the former regime and having tribal affiliation with that regime. You would think the evil is the corrupt government that had been in charge of the country and at war with its own people much of its reign. You would think he has issues with Siyad, Morgan, Riyale, Jamac Ismaciil, Inna Lax wase, and other highest officials in that regime who had held positions in that government. Wrong! Don’t take my word for it and just read what he had penned there.

 

Tolstoy thinks he “defeated†Oday Baashi and his “defeated lot†and he magically tossed “us†in the dust bin of history. Clannish talk? You bet! This is not a small measure in his world. Any shrewd, intelligent, and critical reader can, easily and without any effort, link the dots. Make no mistake friends there are crucial links of this messianic “defeat†he so often portrays, the triumph, “His†people claiming their place of history, and the idea of Somaliland. Not only this precludes certain segments of the very country he wishes to have, but it makes a sizable resident in that lot the part of the evil he so bravely had defeated.

 

This is not a principled case to make. This is an angry man who blames not government and the fallible men that led that government. This is man who lays the blame at the doors of the country in general and the certain clans in particular. I sense that his broad brush even paints unborn future generations from this clan with the same brush he paints with the leaders who led us to this bottomless pit we find ourselves in.

 

Odey Baashi

[SOO MAAL]

Beertii Xoriyadda, Sareeyow Manuqsaamow Aan siduu yahay eegnee

 

 

 

Kana siib kana Saar

Waxay Shan iyo Afartan Guuradii ka soo wareegtay Calansarkii ugu horeeyay ee laga dhidbo dhul Soomaaliyi leedahay, Nasiibdaro Shalay waxaa lagu qabtay Afar iyo Toban Guuradii Kalagownta Soomaaliya, Balse isu eeg Mujaahid C/laahi Suldaan Tima Cadde iyo Daahir Riyaale......

 

Waxaa ayaan daro ah in meeshii laga taagay Calankii ugu horeeyay ee Umad Soomaaliyeed oo Xor ah in Maanta lagaga Dhawaaqo wax Umadda Soomaaliyeed lagu kala qaybqaybinaayo.

 

Hargaysa waxay ahayd meeshii Saldhiga u ahayd Xoriya Soomaaliya, waxaana Naftooda u waayay Kumanaan Muwaadin una huray wax kasta oo ay jecelyihiin.

 

Waxaa ka mida Halyay yadaa oo Runtii Qofkasta oo Soomali ah isla markaana Damiir Dadnimo ku jirto uu mar kasta Xusuusanayaa, Heestii Qaaliga ahayd ee la Tiriyay Saqdii dhexe 26 June 1960. {Sareeyow Manuqsaamow Aan siduu yahay eegnee Kana siib kana saar}

 

Nin oday ah ayaan waydiiyay Balsida uu u arko Qudbadii Daahir Riyaale ka jeediyay Shalay Beerta Xoriyadda, Wuxuu ku jawaabay.

 

Balmaxay ula doonteen Beerta Xoriyadda, Awelba Meel ay Khariyadda ku sheegaan ayay isugu Imaanjireen, oo ay waxay doonaan ka sheegijireen, Sow anaga nagu Xumayn maayaan Mar haday Beertii Xoriyada Umadda Soomaaliyeed ay waxaa ka sheegayaan.

 

Hadaba C/laahi Suldaan Timacade Ama C/laahi qarshe iyo Daahir Riyaaleba waa Laba Muwaadin oo Soomali ah, waxaana labadoodaba Xusi doonta Taariikhda.

 

Darwiishland.com

[SOO MAAL]

Siilaanyo oo Ku Tilmaamay Reer Sool Inay Cadow Yihiin Maruu Riyaale eedeeynaayey inuu Xoog Ku Qaban Waayey,,

 

Siilaanyo ayaa Maruu Maanta Saxaafadda Siiyey Waraysi Ku Tilmaamay Dadka Reer Sool Cadow isagoo Sabab uga Dhigay inay Diideen inay Ka Mid Noqdaan Maamulka Soomaalidiidka.

Mr Siilaanyo uu Jawaab Ka Bixinaayey eedayn uu Hore ugu Soo Jeediyey Riyaale oo Shalay La Hadlaayey Dadka Hargeysa ayaa Riyaale Ku Tilmaamay Xisbiga Siilaanyo inuusan ahayn Mid u Bisilayn Siyaasadda isla Markaan u Dhisan Qaab Reereed.

 

Jawaabtii uu Ka Bixiyey Maxamed Axmed Siilaanyo Hadalkaas ayaa Noqotay Maanta inuu Riyaale Ku Canbaareeyo Wuxuu Ka Soo Cararay Sool oo ah Dad Cadow ah Mana Ahayn inuu Ka Soo Cararo Markuu Hore Riyaale u Tegay Laascaanood ee Laga Saaray Magaalada.

 

Maahan Markii ugu Horeysey oo Siilaanyo uu Ku Tilmaamo reer Sool,Sanaag iyo Cayn in ay Yihiin Cadow Dhan Ka ah Waxa Beeshiisu Doonayso, Sidoo Kale Labada Xisbi ee ay Kala Sheegtaan Faysal Cali Waraabe iyo Maxamuud Axmed Siilaanyo ayaa Waxaa Caado u Noqotay in Ka Dhigtaan inay Shacabka Reer beeshooda Had iyo Goor Ku Abuuraan Cabsi iyo inay Cadow u Yihiin Beelaha Sool, Sanaag iyo Cayn Taas oo ay Ujeedada ay Ka Leeyihiin Tahay Sidii ay Ku Gaadhi Lahaayeen Danahooda Kursi Doon.

 

Warqabadka Darwiishland ee Hargeysa ayaa u Suurta Gashay inay Wax Ka ogaadaan Sida uu Saamayn ugu Yeeshay Dadka iyagu Ka Soo Jeeda Gobolada SSC Hadalkii Maanta uu BBC Ka Sheegay Siilaanyo iyo Saxaafadda Waxaana Loo Xaqiijiyey Darwiishland inay aad uga Xumaadeen Hadaladii Ka Soo Yeedhay Mr Siilaanyo.

 

inkastoo ay Qaarkood Ku Tilmaameen Wax ay Horeba ugu ogaayeen Nacaybka uu u Qabo Siilaanyo Gobolada Sool, Sanaag, iyo Cayn.

 

Manaha ah Wax Ku Cusub Shacabka Wada Degga ee Walaalaha ah ee woqooyiga Somalia ololayaasha Colaad Hurinta ah ee ay Wadaan Mr Siilaanyo iyo Faysal Cali Waraabe Waa Siday Hadalka u Dhigeene Dadkii Aanu Wax Ka Waydiinay Fegaradaha ay Ka Qabaan Siilaanyo Waraysiguu Siiyey Saxaafadda Maanta

[Gabbal]

Oday Baashi, whether I sound like a cheerleader or not, you outdid yourself walee! One of the few articles on SOL more then three paragraphs long that I actually took the time and energy to read. However I do think you over-simplified some subjects of history that need to be given more scrutiny, particularaly about the power-sharing between former colonies of Italian Somaliland and its much smaller sibling, British Somaliland.

 

As for the "Guulwade" comments and "defeated lot" and others, even I was getting mystified. I would, in under any normal circumstance, accept those kind of glib phrases with indifference. Yet it indeed surprised me as to why all the members of a clan were labeled as such, irrespective of the way the political tides ran under the Siyaad Barre government. I wonder if Abdulahi Yusuf is a "guulwade" to some of our nomadic acquaintances here.

 

ANYWAYS, the cheerleader wants to continue, here are some good quotes I wanted to acknowledge from your post:

 

 

The notion that bigger, more populous, better endowed (eight million acres of arable land with two rivers), more advanced infrastructure, and better trained administrative officers (ten years of self rule under Trusteeship arrangement) must share (ask on what basis, population or what?) power equally with the North was not only unreasonable proposition but it was counter productive to the aspiration of the young nation that was about to emerge.

Northerner dared to reason independently and veered from the “groupthink†rehearsed line. His mistake was he engaged with likes of me. He should have listen to Lander or you for that matter and stick, as it were, with the polar opposite formulation. I’ve seen Ngonge struggling with the tremendous peer pressure.

This is not a principled case to make. This is an angry man who blames not government and the fallible men that led that government. This is man who lays the blame at the doors of the country in general and the certain clans in particular. I sense that his broad brush even paints unborn future generations from this clan with the same brush he paints with the leaders who led us to this bottomless pit we find ourselves in.

[NGONGE]

Afro, I see you too have questions . Same here! I asked simple questions about the wisdom behind the secession. I thought the whole thing, from the get go, was motivated by sheer clannism. You’ve heard the responses. They ranged from something akin to ‘it’s not your business’ to ‘u are jealous that we made it’...and something in between. Every now and then you hear some emotional outburst that equates serious or critical discussions on the issue to hate and envy! Not all of the proponents of this side are that childish. In fact some have presented their thoughts as to why they justify the secession. So far they didn’t demonstrate enough reasons why the parts of what used to be British Somaliland has to secede.

 

Before I refute what our friend Mr. Tolstoy had to say about the issue let me say a word or two to the ones who have voiced different approach (no grievances or colonial legacy but rather something else that can differentiate Togdheer from Soul or Garowe) that articulates why parts of that corner of the country belong together and not to Somalia. I suspect the only reasonable argument there is what Northerner had alluded to namely the political impasse of Somalia and difficult of finding a common ground for the divergent interests of the Southern leaders (let alone the interest of the North westerners) is very difficult to reconcile. Therefore, this line of reasoning seems to be saying that since the current political problems is so difficult to solve, out of desperation the country should be dismembered for the time being. Very interesting line of thinking I must say. I don’t agree with that but it’s a very dignifying way of making the case for the secession.

Baashe, I do wish you would drop the clannish arguments from this discussion, saaxib. It really does not become you. I’m sure, having read the historical narrative you’ve written as a reply to Tolstoy, that you’re a man who knows his history (not that I fully believe either version of course). I’m convinced that you already know that for every clannish motive on one side there is an equal drive on the other. It would be mad to point at Tolstoy’s nakedness when you yourself are donning your birthday suit, wouldn’t you say?

 

The clannish argument is really redundant here. We should all tacitly accept its presence and move on into discussing whatever needs talking about. To keep referring to it in every discussion is nothing but a cheap way at scoring points. Was your aim to score points or were you genuinely concerned for the general welfare of Somalia (and as a consequence of your belief in one Somalia, Somaliland)?

 

 

I’m sure you’ve read all my exchanges with my fellow Somalilanders on this thread and others in the past few days. I view most of their rhetoric in the same way I view yours and Wind-talkers. You embrace an idea without, judging by the evidence, giving it much thought. You all seem to have made a decision to choose a side and went on convincing yourself, and others, that this decision is the correct one! But, is it?

 

I’m really not convinced by your argument. You’re denying the Somaliland people their right to choose their fate on the basis of very weak and superficial reasons:

 

They’re being clannish

They’re dividing Somalia

They’re basing it on grievances

They have no right to secede

History says..

Etc..etc..

 

I could go on to dismantle all those reasons and show you how pointless and blinkered they all are. However, I believe you’re bright enough to do that yourself. So, as an exercise in self-examination, I invite you to play devil’s advocate here and reveal all the faults in your contention (if nothing else, it will help strengthen your future deliberations on the subject).

 

I find myself in the curious position of objecting to both sides. On the one hand, I vehemently oppose the lack of clarity of Somaliland proponents; the apparent insufficiency of direction and confidence is wearisomely exasperating. On the other hand, I also fiercely (though never were in the past) dispute the wisdom behind a one Somali Republic.

 

Somali political discussion is in dire need of a touch of reality. This way of referring back to history at every given opportunity and attempting to prove and disprove current positions is dishonest and, frankly, no way to conduct any kind of debate.

 

The total conviction in one’s cause is admirable, only when one really understands the cause! I’m afraid, that other than Tolstoy (who lets his passion get the better of him) not many taking part in this discussion really know or understand why they take the positions they have. Where I’ll, rightfully I believe, rebuke Tolstoy is in his romantic, navel-gazing and tediously historical reasoning when trying to sell the Somaliland case. After 14 years of de facto independence, there should be no reason to do any selling to the opponents of Somaliland. Time to utilise your selling skills at home, saaxib. For as you’re clearly aware, not many know why they support Somaliland!

 

Some people like to live in dreams, they’re safer, feel nicer and one really does not have to make any major decisions (not even if the dream is a nightmare). Many Somaliland citizens live such a dream. Many have convinced themselves that the declaration of independence on the 18th of May was an end of an era and that whatever followed/ follows is Somaliland history (not Somalia). This dream of course, might become a reality and these comments of mine will then become pointless. That all depends on the attainment of recognition! This is when the dreamers can proudly say that what I viewed as mere sandcastles were really towering buildings! (If you don’t understand this point, I’ll advice you to read any of the historical narratives written by Tolstoy, Baashe, et al). For the hard work and sacrifice of the many, I do hope that such a dream becomes a reality.

 

Likewise with those opposing Somaliland! The dream is much better than the reality. Despite all evidence, they still believe that Somalia will finally become peaceful, the countless parts of the warring jigsaw will finally fit and Somaliland will miraculously come back to the fold again!

 

Is this the reality though? Are the obstacles that simple to overcome? Can Somalia (the one with the TFG) finally sort itself out, reach a workable and peaceful understanding, discard all the hatred and mistrust, rebuild its institutions and woo Somaliland back (or even force it back)? A practical and pragmatic person would conclude that this is very unlikely. They’ll hope, judging by the evidence again, that Somalia (TFG) manages to sort itself out and construct some semblance of a working government. He’ll tell you that such a government will need a long time to get its basic act together, time for Somaliland to gallop ahead with it’s own agenda! He’ll tell you that even when Somalia is ready to reclaim Somaliland, the opportunities for division, disruption and sabotage on both sides will be limitless! A dreamer on the other hand, never allows these things to interfere with his vision. Events, signs, facts or obstacles don’t matter to him unless they serve to further his dream and give it legitimacy! If not, they’re discarded, ignored or rejected!

 

Of course, I realise that I’m, as usual, urinating against the wind and that half of what I write makes no sense to any here. But, should I give up? Read and not take part while convincing myself that Somalis will always be Somalis?

I prefer to point at your nakedness (all of you) instead and sneer. Maybe, just maybe you’ll finally decide to cover up (I’m fully dressed by the way). :cool:

[AYOUB]

Originally posted by HornAfrique:

As for the "Guulwade" comments and "defeated lot" and others, even I was getting mystified. I would, in under any normal circumstance, accept those kind of glib phrases with indifference. Yet it indeed surprised me as to why all the members of a clan were labeled as such, irrespective of the way the political tides ran under the Siyaad Barre government.

Horn let me remind you the comments you made only weeks ago to BOQORKA BORAMA, and I quote .. ".. Awdal is known for having remained one of Siad Barre's political strongholds and one of only few regions he had greatest support."

 

Where do people with your kind of insider knowledge get nerve to protest (too much if I may say so) when we point you out as ousted and frustrated 'Victory (ha!) Pioneers'.?

[N.O.R.F]

NGONGE says:

 

Somali political discussion is in dire need of a touch of reality. This way of referring back to history at every given opportunity and attempting to prove and disprove current positions is dishonest and, frankly, no way to conduct any kind of debate.

Good point. Repetition of historical facts/theories are forming a basis for argument rather than a dose of realism and debate on what is actually happening today. Tolstoy, one is telling you to forget the atrocities of the late 80 and early 90s but to 'assess' the reality on the ground. As for the 'i bet you would change your tone if Kumiye were in power' notes, Kulmiye are actually willing to at least listen & debate the issue rather than ignore it all together in the persuit of debt. You really think the Somaliland govnt (the majority of) are persuing independece based on your historical analysis??? Give me a break mate.

 

Is this the reality though? Are the obstacles that simple to overcome? Can Somalia (the one with the TFG) finally sort itself out, reach a workable and peaceful understanding, discard all the hatred and mistrust, rebuild its institutions and woo Somaliland back (or even force it back)? A practical and pragmatic person would conclude that this is very unlikely. They’ll hope, judging by the evidence again, that Somalia (TFG) manages to sort itself out and construct some semblance of a working government. He’ll tell you that such a government will need a long time to get its basic act together, time for Somaliland to gallop ahead with it’s own agenda! He’ll tell you that even when Somalia is ready to reclaim Somaliland, the opportunities for division, disruption and sabotage on both sides will be limitless! A dreamer on the other hand, never allows these things to interfere with his vision. Events, signs, facts or obstacles don’t matter to him unless they serve to further his dream and give it legitimacy! If not, they’re discarded, ignored or rejected!

NGONGE, lets not focus on the above but argue the same line again and again even though none of the above are in a position to dictate to the other their 'dreams'.

 

round and round we go :rolleyes: