MAY 18th

[NGONGE]

^ [big Grin] Who knew you'd feel directly targeted by this small appeal? well cuzo I can't say that I regret you feeling personally targeted; predefined you say? throwing around some of your own assumptions ain't ya..

I'll tell you as much as I told Ngonge, this is not the place for such a discussion

and another thread would be more appropriate. Defining nationality should be a rather interesting topic, one that could benefit from your historical/political knowledge. So come out and drop this "lurker" business you’re only at 200 some odd posts [Wink] .

I don’t get you, saaxib! Why is this not the place for a discussion on such issues? Do they not relate to Somaliland?

 

Are we not celebrating, commemorating and remembering the day that Somaliland declared its independence again?

 

What better place and time to discuss the issues of identity, ideology and intellectual progress?

 

Why do you keep dodging these (IMO) fair questions? Do you think them unimportant?

Whenever I comment on any Somaliland issue, and I don’t believe in taking any prisoners when engaging in such discussions, you usually accuse me of either whinging, sitting on the fence or being indifferent! Yes, I’m very indifferent to artificial shows of emotion. I don’t just wave flags, go on demonstrations or cry about injustices without knowing why I’m doing all of this or if my fellow flag wavers, wailers and demonstrators know!

 

 

I would like to know WHY, saaxib. Even if you say that you don’t know, that you trust some sort of inner feeling that you have, I’d be at least happy with your reply and know that if nothing else, you will now start thinking (grudgingly perhaps) of why you believe in the notion of Somaliland. When I get dismissive replies, accusations of indifference, replies that only amount to the stubborn phrase ‘because we say so’, I wonder about the strength of your belief. Do you follow? Or are you going to tell me to take my words to a new thread again?

 

PS

Lest you mistake my words (or at least the undertones) as a tacit support for the Somali republic, let me delight you with the fact that I’m now, in my mind at least, almost certain (as much as any of us can be certain of anything in this life) that Somaliland and Somalia do not belong together.

 

Ame,

Mr B has his own confused agenda, dear. It should not be confsued with my own confused agenda or we'll all be confused.

[Baashi]

Mr B has his own confused agenda, dear. It should not be confsued with my own confused agenda or we'll all be confused.

Fair enough. Although I wouldn't characterize mine as a confused agenda or even agenda per se for that matter, I can understand why you would want to put it that way. At last it downed on me how things are around here. Certain things would never change

[-Serenity-]

Hehe.

 

NG,I’m not putting you and Baashi on the same base, no sire! You’re indeed differently confused. Of course, you’ve somehow managed to salvage a little of whats left of your clarity of thought with this ….

Lest you mistake my words (or at least the undertones) as a tacit support for the Somali republic, let me delight you with the fact that I’m now, in my mind at least, almost certain (as much as any of us can be certain of anything in this life) that Somaliland and Somalia do not belong together.

 

Baashiyoow seefta dhinac nooga dhig maanta keliya and join in the festivities.

 

…. n what do u mean by “whats with u Amy n ….� Who are you referring to? I’ve a devoted fan following…don’t let rumours fly about. Ok? We are not all married n have the luxury of looking for more

 

Even the weather is beautiful in this side of the world today... GREAT DAY. :cool:

[N.O.R.F]

NGONGE says:

 

let me delight you with the fact that I’m now, in my mind at least, almost certain (as much as any of us can be certain of anything in this life) that Somaliland and Somalia do not belong together.

At this moment in time? or for good?

 

The current situation is very difficult to say the least. Even if recognition is gained, do you think Riyalle and his govnt will actually do something for the people? All that UN/IMF/World Bank money that will gush into the pockets of the govnt will be shared out quicker than you can say 'waar maxaa dacay'! Villas in Viena mate :rolleyes:

 

Therefore, my theory is that recognition does not necessarily leave Somaliland in good stead. The govnt has proven to be a bunch of incompetent fo*ls who are more concerened with staying in power and limiting the actions of its opposition rather than serving the people.

 

Being passionate about Somaliland is one thing (over coming oppression by Siad Barre etc), establishing a peacful and prosporous society is another, but then we have Riyalle (who is slowly looking like a dictator) so have we 'really' achieved what we set out to do or do just overlook it.

 

In a recent conversation with a xamari freind of mine we considered the following question:

 

Would you say that we from two different countries to a non somali? I could not imagine myself saying yes to that question.

[Gediid]

Happy May 18th from Hargeisa.

The day was indeed a beautiful one,rain most of yesterday and overcast today with a cool wind blowing in from the West.Unlike the other May 18th's which were held in Kheyrida this one was held in Beerta Xoriyada the same place June 26th 1960 was celebrated.It was attended by most of Hargeisa and except for a few school children chanting Riyaale dooni meyno the rest of the festivities went smoothly.This was indeed one of the highlights of my trip so far.

Happy May 18th to all.Ilaahey tan teeda nabad iyo barwaaqo ha nagu gadhsiiyo.

Amiin

[NGONGE]

North:

At this moment in time, which for practical purposes also means for good (if you follow my meaning).

 

 

My problem with the government is not one that has to do with corruption, saaxib. I personally don’t think the other opposition parties are any better than the president’s boys. They’re all as ineffectual as each other really. My opposition to them is in their failure to connect Somaliland together other than by the tired and delicate plot of colonialism and past grievances.

 

It’s why you and many others are proud to declare that you hail from such and such city in Somaliland but hardly seem fussed about the actual nation! The question that most Southerners keep asking about Somaliland has never been adequately answered (the question of course is: what makes Somaliland different to any other part of the Somali Republic?), I’m sure you already heard all the answers to this question. I need not repeat them here. It’s obvious that you’re, like me, unconvinced by them. My own answer of course is TIME. This is why Somaliland is different now and will stay different. The passage of time is slowly creating a chasm between the two countries. One that I don’t believe will be bridged in the near future.

 

Like you, when I speak to any Somali, I really don’t see him as being anything different from me. He is my countryman! However, pragmatism forces me to endorse and encourage the idea of Somaliland! After 14 years of convincing the old ladies of Borama, children of Burco and boys of Hargeisa that Somaliland is different, independent and sovereign I would not want to disappoint all these people by saying that all such things were lies and that Somalia, we recently discovered, is the better option for all concerned!

 

Of course, even if we do convince them to abandon this ‘crazy’ idea of Somaliland and re-embrace Somalia, what guarantees do we have that the next time Somalia has any problems, the Somalilanders will not seek secession and independence? The few days after the independence from the British when Somaliland was a free nation, are still being used as a reason for the existence of modern day Somaliland, wouldn’t future Somalilanders (in the event that they reunite with Somalia) have a bigger reason and a more significant one when they cite the 14 years of self rule as the reason for any future secession? For all intents and purposes, in my humble opinion at least, going back is really not a viable option.

 

 

So, what should one do? I hear you ask! Wave the flag, saaxib, wave the flag. But, while you do so, make sure you annoy the hell out of your fellow flag-wavers by repeating the question ‘why Somaliland?’

 

PS

Welcome back Gadiid. Shush! Sniff the air, saaxib! Sniff again! Do you smell her familiar perfume? I bet she’s going to post a reply any minute now asking about your holiday! :rolleyes:

[Valenteenah.]

Amiin @ Gediid. Hope ur holiday is going well.

 

Happy May 18th to all the Somalilanders. :cool:

[India]

Happy 18th May everyone

 

Peace and Prosperity. Amin

 

Dusty

[Faarax-Brawn]

HeHeHe. Sxb

 

Thanks for the explanation, phew, the complexity of comprehending a cowboy saying, gee Armadillos, yellow lines, roads arghh! Damn had me spinning there for a minute.

 

Anyway, enough jesting and humoring, I will leave that for the humorist, as I was never known to humor.

 

 

“Why? If the democracy is something that trumps the interest of the nation how come this man couldn’t come to term with the wishes of the confederate south? So much of democracy!!!â€,

Am not gonna go into detail about America’s civil war and the south, laakin I must say the quote above had me thinking for a minute or two.

 

While you maybe right about the whole ‘people’s wish’ in respect to the civil war, I must point out to you that HUMANITY was at stake in the civil war.

Comparing the ‘greatest sin against the black race’ to the issue of somaliland is rather far fetched in my humble opinion.

 

However, somaliland cannot just decide it wants to leave without expressing it to the other side.

 

Which brings me to a question I posed to a very learned S/Lander and am hoping someone will give me a sufficient answer.

 

How can you claim ‘INDEPENDENCE’ from a non-EXISTENT STATE? (Country?)

 

I would understand, secession, autonomy and anything else, but how can you celebrate independence from a broken state?

[Sophist]

^ Words of vainly apocalyptic magnitude indeed; merrily the man marches happily into the aphotically dark chasm.

[wind.talker]

Originally posted by Tolstoy:

Gen. Siad Barre was essentially the last nail of the Coffin of Somali-weyn's political aspirations...

There's plenty of fault in this logic, I must say. Was it the late Gen. Barre (alaha u naxaristo) who declared unilateral independence from Somalia? NO! The people who put the "final nail on the coffin" - as you eloquently put it - are the same ones you hold dear, as the "liberators" of Somaliland. THEY declared independence, not Gen. Barre - the man who stood for the ideal of Greater Somalia more than any other Somali politician since 1960 , the same man who put FEAR into the hearts & minds of the Xabasha about the might of the Somali Republic!

 

For we in Somaliland, today of all day, are celebrating the final culmination of our historical vindication that essentially started in

December of 1961; when the a few brave officers who were the citizens of Somaliland

of that time, seen through all the mirrors and the smoke of "Somali-Weyn" political agenda; and decided that it was a historical mistake to throw away the fruits that was on our lap that in which we had in the 26th of June of 1960(namely the Somaliland's soverignity);

Why didn't Somaliland declare independence at the time? You can't blame the South for all your faults, sxb. That's what Blacks in America have been doing for centuries, blaming the White man. That doesn't get you anywhere. Face it: northwestern Somalia's leaders failed, time and again. They failed when many parliamentarians elected from the North switched political parties (SNL to SYL) in the democratic '60s because they lacked a cohesive strategy to challenge the southern Somali leaders; they failed when they let Riyaale run Somaliland's affairs; they failed in convincing anyone but an exclusive Somali clan in achieving this ultimate goal of recognition . Why? They lack the political expertise, the finesse to push forth their agendas, to lobby for the right people, to attract others to their cause. Themes of self-reliance and self-rule are strong in Somaliland community, must be encouraged and that must be applauded. But the ideology of secession is one that I personally consider socio-political blasphemy (not that my opinion makes a difference, anyways).

 

Alls I'm saying is: quit blaming others for your downfalls! You can produce a billion copies of the "Act of Union" - whether it exists or not - but there was, is and will forever be one Somalia. If you want independence for the Berbera-Hargeisa-Burco triangle, I'll support you in any way I can, probably by setting up a Victim's of Barre Fund.

[AYOUB]

 

Originally posted by Tolstoy:

Hello All Somalilanders,

Hello you

And greetings to ALL Somalilanders wherever you are. Hope you gave a good one and better next time round. Inshallah.

 

Tolstoy thanks for that nice piece.

 

Originally posted by Gediid:

This was indeed one of the highlights of my trip so far.

Happy May 18th to all.Ilaahey tan teeda nabad iyo barwaaqo ha nagu gadhsiiyo.

Amiin

Amiin to that.

 

Keep an eye on one you can DHL for your brother Ayoub

 

[LANDER]

Amiin Geediido,

 

Happy 18th to Somalilanders worlwide

[SOO MAAL]

If you want independence for the Berbera-Hargeisa-Burco triangle, I'll support you in any way I can, probably by setting up a Victim's of Barre Fund.

Wind talker well put

 

 

If secessionists want a separate state for Somaliland (meaning Berbera-Hargeisa-Burco triangle), then they have every right to do that.

 

BUT, if they want to claim the whole former British Somaliland, then that will not work. Because SSC regions strongly oppose the Somaliland concept, and demand self-determination and right to stay with Somalia

 

secessionists cannot at the same time argue that they want freedom for themselves, and want to oppress Sool, Sanaag, and Cayn regions, where there is huge majority that supports association with Somalia.

 

 

What can I say; secessionists are the biggest hypo critics.

 

 

Anyway, Happy May 18th for somalilanders (people from Hargeysa-Burco-Barbara Triangle)

[N.O.R.F]

Tolstoy

 

My analysis of the situation back home and what 'i' feel is not up for discussion. As we all have minds and hearts of our own (i hope).

 

The bigger issue in question is, why, after some 14 years, is Somaliland not recognised yet and why is it looking more like a dictatorship is sprouting up (after the last one was rid of)?

 

Again, we have the same issue i was trying to highlight to Baashi (the engineering problem) but aimed at pro Somalilanders. We screaming for independence and recognition but its obvious if this is indeed achieved we will no doubt become just another corrupt African country in debt to the UN/IMF/World Bank. Is this what we want, is this what you and other pro Somalilanders want??? :confused: . You see i would rather let things be as they are rather than become a country in debt and corrupted under the false pretence of 'independence is a good thing'. Not with this govnt i say. I would probably have alot to gain from an Independent Somaliland in terms of income when the flood gates of a free market are opened. But i'm not prepared to accept this with corruption and poor health and education services as a result.

 

Its probably my fault for considering all the options/scenarios that may occur before committing to something as important as this. Hey, i work in an industry where analysis to details is as common as apples and pears.

 

I dont have the time for a lengthy and detailed essay on the topic but i try to condence it due to time restraints.

 

Northerner, who would rather talk about as to who shall win between Liverpool and AC Milan in next Tuesday in Istanbul of Turkey for the European football championship

I may not be as up-to-date on Somali politics as i am on football, but one gets the gist of all arguments taking place within a few minutes of reading threads and being able to post his thoughts if needs be. However, one may not wish to be too passionate as we all politics corrupts one's heart and mind where he soon cant see the wood from the trees :rolleyes:

 

ps the Liverpool vs Milan game is on Wednesday