MAY 18th

[Baashi]

Yasmine,

Secessionism is clearly defined and strongly advocated political objective. There are Somalis who do support secessionism. On the other end of the spectrum, other Somalis strongly disagree with this political goal. Each side has their reasons.

 

Now, the pronouns (they, we, them, us) are just that: pronouns. Secessionists, the adherents of secessionism, are clearly distinct political stripe in contemporary Somali politics and “they†simply refers to that group; whereas “we†is the bigger tent that accommodate majority of Somalis that don’t see the need to dismember the country into British and Italian colonial past.

 

Now I didn’t create the political differences that exist among Somalis in general and secessionist-Somaliweyn camp in particular. Hence, the idea of me practicing exclusion is a figment of your imagination. I merely posted my observation on the subject at hand. Perhaps you disagree with what I have been saying on this forum. Perhaps you sympathize with secessionist political outlook. In any case, in nowhere have I ever advocated the politics of exclusion! If anything, defining real political issues and identifying who sympathizes what political strand and why is what political analysis is all about. That is not divisive. But again if you sincerely think articulating Somaliweyn position as a divisive thing to do or misrepresentation then I say that is an opinion and I have seen many interesting opinions in this forum

 

Northerner,

Quite to the contrary, there are plenty of ideas out there. If you are interested in hearing one, please start a new thread and ask the question and I will share my taano with you. I suspect the roadmap will have to articulate a practical outline that ensures a transparent, just, and inclusive government where the system (Islamic preferably) with its checks and balances is the way to go as opposed to the institutionalized tribal order where the inclusion of personalities of particular clan is the guarantor of the stability of the system. This kind of discussion is impossible if one side is insisting with secession of an area that they don’t even have a complete control let alone loyal following.

 

I like the engineering analogy. It is a good one sxb. To answer the question absolutely and positively NO; constructability issue must be resolved before any construction work commences. Conditions adverse to safety must be eliminated and as you might know there is an elaborate processes followed to ensure public safety.

 

The interesting thing in this analogy is that the structural impediments are assessed by cognizant and responsible Engineer (PE) - there are no preconceived judgments made by anyone on the feasibility of the project. All the interested parties contractor, customer, and government regulators have one thing in mind: public safety. In the event that the engineer’s feasibility study finds problem, there are engineering solutions that can be employed to overcome the problem. Now if one really thinks the price in terms of cost, time, and manpower is worth to do the shoring, compacting, and other earthwork techniques necessary to strengthen the ground for the new building, one will simply go ahead and do it, I take it.

 

Well unity in and of itself is always a good thing. It is worth the price. All the problems, real or imagined, that are impediment to its success can be addressed if the goodwill is there. But, from what I understand, you Northerner and other pro-secessionist sympathizers are stuck in the past, stuck with grievances you had with government that is no longer in power, justify the secession premise with moral authority that’s derived from colonial arbitrary judgments. Some of you are visibly angry at wrong folk for wrong reasons. According to response I usually got from some of you, no one in his right mind can even question the dismemberment of Somalia unless...fill the blanks! As of today, as I’ve said in the past, stability and peace in all areas of the country must materialize first. Likewise secession and courting with foreign powers for its delivery must stop.

 

Ayoub,

Bajunis are proud Somali citizens and they don’t have any issues with unity . The difference between Djibouti and former British Somaliland is Djibouti have other non-Somali ethnic group who object being part of Somalia. Again one of the effective power players of the region have very good argument against Djibouti joining with Somalia. French too have their geopolitical interest in the region and hence meddling with the affairs of this tiny city-state country. On the other hand, current self-declared republic of Somaliland does not represent all areas of former British colony. In every law in the book, they (oops I’m gonna get trouble with this one with Yasmine ) let me rephrase it - that territory is still part and parcel of a country with known borders respected by all nations. Parts of former British colony that want to secede must first dismember Somalia (that proved to be a toll order).

[N.O.R.F]

Aha, i see we are getting somewhere, when there is problem your not happy with but others are, you try to persuade them to the contrary by trying to work around the problem rather than repeating 'there is a problem without providing some sort of a solution/.

 

from what I understand, you Northerner and other pro-secessionist sympathizers are stuck in the past, stuck with grievances you had with government that is no longer in power,

The present govnt isnt exactly 'better' is it? :confused:

 

What i and others who are neither pro seccesionist nor against are concerned with is this warlord phenomenon which alot ppl have settled for as being the stable Somali political system that many have just accepted. I for one will never agree to warlords governing themselves let alone a whole country (goes back to the engineering problem).

 

There is an enourmous amount of mistrust between all the parties and then this mistrust is even worse 'within' each party.

 

As for now let concentrate on getting these warlords in order.

 

ps 18th 2mrw :cool:

[Faarax-Brawn]

This is exactly the problem with Somalis and Africans in general.

 

Respecting ones wish is seen as clannish and separatism.

 

If S.L wishes not to be a part of a corrupt, evil and generally horrible southern society (and the populace is behind them), who (Baashi et al) are you guys to tell them they cannot?

 

It’s their civil right, as a former independent nation to decide its destiny. I say let the international communities decide.

 

Having said that, in a world where countries are coming together to build economic and political strength (Europe, East African community), its quite sad that my fellow brothers have decided to take a one way ticket to loneliness.

 

All said and done, if you are not from Somali land, you have no business telling them what they should or shouldn’t want.

 

They didn’t come to you guys in the south and tell you to do this and that, you have no right telling em either.

 

Hey good luck my brothers.

 

Happy may 18th, June 25th ,July 4th, august 23rd and whatever date you guys have to remind one another every single year TO CELEBRATE.

[Resistance]

Salaam All

 

May 18, was it an Independent day or a day millions of Somalis, includings those from North Somalia, become refugeees in neighbouriong nations and thus itiatianted the mass exudus from the homeland.

 

Somalis lets our prioraties the right way around. Peace before we can discuss whether a portion should be seperated.

 

Waslaam

[Suldaanka]

^^ Faras indho la ayaad fuushantay sxb

 

 

Having said that, in a world where countries are coming together to build economic and political strength (Europe, East African community), its quite sad that my fellow brothers have decided to take a one way ticket to loneliness

That must be one the most misunderstood or rather mis-used statements from the Pro unity camp. My friend, tell me a French man who wants to reliquish his soveriegnty to an English man? Or a Briton that wants to let an Italian decide who runs old Blathy?

 

 

Sxb, as a Somalilander, I wouldn't mind to see we as Somalis from Djibouti, Somaliland and Somalia to have one currency or economy system as they are currently doing between Uganda-Keyna and Tanzania, as long as Somaliland, Djibouti and Somalia remain soveriegn independent and equal partner states.

[Faarax-Brawn]

Lets Reqoute it again shall we?

 

 

Now let me Quote YOU:

 

My friend, tell me a French man who wants to reliquish his soveriegnty to an English man? Or a Briton that wants to let an Italian decide who runs old Blathy

Where in the good blue sky of Burco did you get the soverign issue from?

 

Bal???do the Honors

[SOO MAAL]

If, Somaliland don’t want to give up its sovereignty to Somalia, in that case it’s equally justifiable that Sool, Sanaag and cayn regions don’t want to give up their sovereignty to Somaliland. Its very simple if Somalia is divisible, than Somaliland is also divisible.

 

Although, Unity is a good thing, but it shouldn’t be force, therefore different Somaliland (meaning secessionist stronghold regions Hargeysa, Barbara, and Burco not including Sool, Sanaag, and Cayn regions, where majority support unified Somalia) can justify reasons to secede from Somalia.

 

And regarding currency or economy system integration matter, whole African continent or the entire Arab world can have currency or economy system integration scheme i.e. European Union.

[Baashi]

What

I

and others

who are neither pro seccesionist nor against

are concerned with is this warlord phenomenon which alot ppl have settled for as being the stable Somali political system that many have just accepted.

After all, you are not a pro secessionist per se huh! Well what can I say Northerner...we are on the same page then. Btw, warlords, other personalities, and their sidekicks will only last few years and Insha’Allah the day will come when visionaries and men (and women to be politically correct) with integrity take the lead and settle all the political disputes in good faith. I know the unity rhetoric sound good and dandy on the net and I perfectly understand if someone says easy said than done but as a principle one must be careful to oppose it just because Baashi from Somaliweyn camp is for it.

 

Afro net,

Have you ever heard the cowboy saying that the only thing on the middle of the road is yellow lines and dead armadillos! I let you figure that out and plz let me know how you interpret that hawkish line. You gotta be careful to mistake freedom of expression, the rights of individuals and what not with that of the states. For states operate in different level sxb. Collective sacrifice for the common good is the name of the game in this level. There are things in which states rely on for their strength and viability.

 

Unity, population (market for goods), and landmass (resources), among others are the things that make states a viable entity in the long run. States go to war of either defending what they regard as their essential interests or securing access to resources that is not available to them and which they cannot survive without it. It would be nice if the world were full of peace loving countries. The regional politics and the volatility of the Horn alone should make you think twice before endorsing any move that dismembers this poor and conflict-ridden country.

 

With respect to celebrations and what not, that’s trivial in the scheme of things really! What is important is if this celebration is a move that encourages the forging of new identity that hyphenates the ethnic Somalis with English word: Lander. That's not in line with the cool head’s vision of where the country should be going to. The reason being, for one it crystallizes the political divide into cultural one. Secondly, this is akin to taking tribalism into art form where symbols and designations replace what is essentially a clan motivated separation movement goal. What make secession a clan-motivated objective are the history and the root cause of the very question of separation. The case for it has been anchored into three rocks and each one of them is animated by clannish undercurrents.

 

I’ve read many competent authors who have been trying to articulate why it is good idea for parts of Somaliland (the ones that are passionate about the idea) to secede from the rest of the country. The only thing that I so far could agree with their argument is the absence of legitimate representative Somali government that can address the root causes of Somali conflict. What I argue is if what the secessionist North promises to its subjects can be made available in the proposed federal arrangements where the self-declared provinces maintain autonomy on all the domestic dealings then there is no room for the hardliners to maneuver and manipulate the masses buying into the idea that once secession is attained the evil greed and power-hungry men will not come into the reign.

 

This assumes that negative tribalism is not the main driving force of secessionism. If what the people really want is justice, peace, and progress and that's made available inside the big tent that would settle the whole thing, wouldn't? Once this point is agreed and confirmed then the ball is in Mogadishu’s court for Puntland is the one that designed this arrangement to abolish the center-periphery political arrangement that gave the awesome power last government recklessly put into use to preserve the reign of the one man rule that got us where we are at now.

[LANDER]

Originally posted by Yasmine:

quote:Originally posted by LANDER:

BTW change your avatar or put up some display of the Somaliland tri-colours [...] That goes for all you Somalilanders and undercover Somalilanders alike...

Oh, what subtle prodding.

 

Excuse me, huno, but I'm not a flag-waver either. Moreover, you seem to think that political allegiances should be defined by heritage. While there may be nothing wrong with being mindful of one's heritage, I don't think individuals should let it steer their political leanings in a predefined direction.

 

Nice try, though.

^ Who knew you'd feel directly targeted by this small appeal? well cuzo I can't say that I regret you feeling personally targeted; predefined you say? throwing around some of your own assumptions ain't ya.. I'll tell you as much as I told Ngonge, this is not the place for such a discussion and another thread would be more appropriate. Defining nationality should be a rather interesting topic, one that could benefit from your historical/political knowledge. So come out and drop this "lurker" business you’re only at 200 some odd posts .

[Faarax-Brawn]

Afro net,

Have you ever heard the cowboy saying that the only thing on the middle of the road is yellow lines and dead armadillos! I let you figure that out and plz let me know how you interpret that hawkish line. You gotta be careful to mistake freedom of expression, the rights of individuals and what not with that of states. For states operate in different level sxb. Collective sacrifice for the common good is the name of the game in this level. There are things in which states rely on for their strength and viability

HeHehe. Sxb, your very opening line showed me your mentality on issue(s). By quoting Cowboys, you are definitely giving me the impression of a Wild West jingoist and an outlaw SHERRIF in some wild west bordertown.[Not to belittle cowboys,but i think thats a very cowboy-ish saying ]

 

Moving along, true say about the individual and state rights differentiation. However you probably know that individuals make up a state, states become democratic republics(nations), democracy by its simple meaning is quite defined,as government for the people by the people.

 

As you know the populous of that breakway renegade province have decided not to want anything to do with the evil south.(as you put it the hardcore ones).

 

Now, what I said was quite simple, if somaliland wishes to secede and the PEOPLE of that particular state want to secede, well then who are you (not you par se, but people), to decide what is good bad and not so bad for them?

 

Am sure the other side of the somaliland equation have the same right as the other group too.

 

For a person quoting cowboys, Surely this is not something thats very hard to comprehend NO?

[Baashi]

C’mon dude just say it out loud u didn’t get the gist of the phrase ...or did u! The key words are: middle of the road, yellow lines, and dead armadillos. Hint: two line undivided highway. The only thing that divides the highway is yellow line. C'mon yo from there it should be simple to get the idea . Yeah granted the cowboys are associated with vigilante like mentality and shooting from the hip at the slightest provocation, and what not. But that is the cowboys and the phrase is a phrase coined by Americans...the folks have some wisdom in their sayings.

 

Afro don’t buy into the democracy thing! The irony of the phrase of the government for the people, by the people, of the people is coined by none other than the towering figure that Americans thank to for preserving the unity of their country . He went war with the South and in that war about million people had perished . Why? If the democracy is something that trumps the interest of the nation how come this man couldn’t come to term with the wishes of the confederate south? So much of democracy!!! There instances where what majority wishes is set aside if it goes against the moral principles in which the nation is founded. The tyranny of the majority as was the case on the slavery...well u got where I'm goin with this.

 

Don’t u let Oday Baashi down plz...Gimme straight interpretation of the phrase and just forget who coined and what not...

[-Serenity-]

^^ Thank you for positively messing this topic.

[Baashi]

Is that how you've perceived my contribution moderator?

[-Serenity-]

I dont moderate this section... so I'm free to...erm...

 

<< Some1 spot Baashi n NGONGE

 

 

Anyways....

 

HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY MAY 18TH SOMALILANDERS

[Baashi]

^u r free to...got it

 

How did Ngonge get into the picture, anywayz. What's up with u Amy n...