Imported Islam

[Caano Geel]

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[North]

But what are the tenets of faith? Is it only in our daily prayers that we would call 'faith' and all agree on? What about having patience, having good manners, not stirring trouble, are they not tenets of faith?

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I think its difficult to argue for a faith with regard to manners, courtesies. Virtually all faiths that i know off stress the need for honest conduct between people, and stress that their followers adhere to these. The other thing is that you undermine the value of the ethereal by pointing at these, since they do not distinguish your faith from any other.

 

And yes people are different, so their values are different, and a common framework helps. But does this mean that the framework assimilates to a common value or universally accepts all values. Personally, I don't know which, homogeneity gives a sense of security and continuation but its prone to bigotry, and we also have to choose whose value to normalise. On the other hand you have a constant state of change, and the relativism that gives theologians a constant migraine.

 

 

[jb]

To be honest with you, I'm a fan of the waddaads, i think what they are trying to do, if in good faith, is courageous. I do not fully subscribe to their full view point of what a functional society is or how it may be achieved, but their heavenly incentive at least in theory be immune to the short term cash/power payoff.

 

What intrigues me though is, what happens if they eventually consolidate power. Given the motivation of reincarnating the pure, what happens to their defined impure.

[Caano Geel]

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[Cambarro]

To be honest, I am not talking about the waddaads per se. I am talking about those people who claim that Somalia isnt in need of an imported Islam. That what our forefathers have practised is sufficient. You dont have to look further from these boards to notice that the terms 'gardheer, surwaalgaab' are used in a derogatory manner. Havent they read the seerah of the Nabi (as) and his companions (ra)? This is not being a better importer than others but the quality of the Islam that imported based on the Quran and Sunnah. ----------------------------------

Cambarro, I'll take your premise that we need to re-invent, so again:

 

1. which version?

2. how we choose between the alternatives?

 

By saying imported Islam, where or in whom are you assuming this untainted version of an original still exists.

 

And are you contradicting your argument in the notion of an import. By arguing for import now, you are also arguing for shades of gray, not black and white. If we can import and change now, then we legitimately do it tomorrow and we legitimately did it yesterday. So what makes this import any different to the way islam has always grown, been interpreted, used and practiced.

 

.. and yes the name calling isn't right. But i dont think this was done outside of the party partisan behaviour of the marvelously over opinionated 'SOL politic' crew.

 

... ooh yes, i also threw a few jabs in my day over a number gender related issues. So sorry if this offended you.

[Ms DD]

CG

 

There is a big difference now. In the generations before us (like our moms and dads and their parents), they didnt have much knowledge of the deen. They just followed what their sheekh told them and after the death of their sheekh, they used to go off to his grave to lament. We are blessed with so much 'ilmi available to us 24 hrs a day. Many times i have heard the world media sprouting how easy-going somali muslims will be subjected to this puritan form of Islam now that the Courts are ruling.

The untainted version of Islam exists in people's hearts. Nowhere in the world has adopted this as form of govt because they were never allowed to prosper by western countries. One thing for sure is: They can tolerate the dictators and despots but they can never tolerate where people are ruled by Islamic authority. So it was never given a chance and i really doubt that it will happen in the near future.

 

I am all for importing Islam so long as it is derived from Quran and Sunnah. There are always grey areas in all matter and it is natural that it evolves but we should never lose sight of the basic principles of the Islamic teachings.

[Caano Geel]

Cambarro,

[politics aside]

The cilmi, is interesting, because you are are saying that you have been exposed to new knowledge which has led to change your mind in someway. My principal point is that everyone is exposed to new knowledge.

 

For example, personally i reject the principle that i cant give my friends a hug or shake the hand of someone that i meet. The pious (by my and those around me's definition) people i've spoken to across a number of cultures also reject this. So are we all wrong?

 

[hearts and minds]

About the heart, your saying it doesnt matter, its all in my heart its what i feel. In that case, its independent of the world around me. and furthemore, since people hold different things closer to their heart, then there are as many islams as hearts. Is that really so?

 

This is a relativistic view point, therefore by that argument, there is no need for any imports, in fact there is no need for anything. You already know what is right or wrong

 

[evolution]

Two points,

(1) in your view point what are the basic tenants/principles, ie the set in stone cant negotiate type?

 

(2) it islam evolves, then is it ok to reject the proposition of going back to a basic principle. Since change or evolution signifies that there cant be any notions of basic, just what is right at that point.

 

- thanks for the reply

[Abu-Salman]

To CG,

 

Let's prevent further confusion within the thread by prioritizing and expliciting separately your questions.

 

Do you agree that the universe has been created?

 

If yes, you probably also agree that our extremely complicated and yet perfectly regulated universe or creation has a purpose.

 

Naturally, one's supreme duty is therefore to comply with these regulations.

 

Consequently, the question is how to determine these fundamentals rules given our inherent subjectivity and boundless ignorance.

 

Hence, such quintessential need as to find the truth about our creator and the purpose of creation can only be adressed by the creator himself.

 

Now, would you accept such claim that each physical entity is regulated by one divinity and other nonsenses?

 

Wouldn't you restrict yourself only to monotheistic religion and find out which one is entirely authenticate, unaltered and provide a fully coherent and complete framework?

 

 

We can carry on this logic but give a feedback on which stage need to be more elaborated as a forum is not always ideal for discussing such issues; we can then adress the topic concerning the pure Islam ...

[Caano Geel]

Djib,

First, no offence, but please dont start a post with

"Do you agree that god exist?"

 

Its derogatory to your intelligence and that of your audience and a worn out prelude to 'kafir your not one of us argument', that is neither here nor there and no one should be ishtupid enough to fall for.

 

second.

Divinity is not the issue, and yes the universe and its creation are certainly difficult concepts to contemplate.

 

The point is practice, and what value one places over the different forms of practice, i.e. the interpretations scholars make, since as you elegantly put it; with our boundless ignorance, only allah can understand the full purpose and meaning.

 

third

sorry, i dont fully understand the last 3 paragraphs, please explain, with less flowery language

-

thanks

[Abu-Salman]

CG, raali ahow akhi, I've edited on multiple occasions the post, maybe you haven't seen the last draft, I shouldn't be in such a hurry when posting and assume that people will read my mind while focuzing on the arguments.

 

At any rate, I was asking you to explicit your questions, separate them and put them into the right hierarchy as to profit everyone in a meaningful dialogue.

 

I'll edit inshaallah the last 3 paragraphs..sorry again but I've never had the intention to label anyone as kaafirs since I'm not qualified to do so to begin with...

[Khalaf]

Quran and Sunnah. amar bil maruf wa nahi anil-munkir is the duty of every Muslim....Prophet scw said he was sent to pefrect characters ...when they say "imported islam" it means dont tell me what to do live and let live ....call it exterme but it is following the footsteps of the Messenger scw. With amar bil maruf wa nahi anil-munkir, educate the ppl with Islamic teachings, and make not the religion difficult. Seef laboodnimo, condeming other Muslims who dont agree it is not the way of rasul scw (hard tho ).

 

 

Methodology of the Saved Sect

 

By Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Jameel Zaynoo [1]

 

[1] Allaah - the Most High – said,

 

“And hold fast altogether to the Rope of Allaah and do not become divided.” [2]

 

[2] Allaah - the Most High – said,

 

“And do not be of those who commit Shirk (associate partners with Allaah), those who split-up their Religion and become sects; each sect rejoicing in what is with them.” [3]

 

[3] The Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, “I advise you to have taqwaa of Allaah and to hear and to obey, even if an Abyssinian slave becomes your leader. Those of you who live long after me will see a lot of differences, so hold fast to my Sunnah and to the Sunnah of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs after me. Cling to it tightly and beware of newly-invented matters, for every newly invented matter is an innovation, and every innovation is misguidance, and all misguidance is in the Fire.” [4]

 

[4] He (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) also said, “Indeed, the people of the Book before you split-up into seventy-two sects. And this nation will split-up into seventy-three sects, seventy two are in the Fire and one is in Paradise.” [5] And in another narration, “All of them are in the Fire except one.” It was asked, ‘Who is that one?’ He replied, “That which I and my Companions are upon.” [6]

 

[5] Ibn Mas’ood - radiyallaahu ’anhu – said, [7] Allaah’s Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) drew a line for us and then said, “This is Allaah’s Path.” Then he drew lines to its right and its left, and said, “These are differing paths, upon each of them there is a Shaytaan (devil) calling to it.” Then he recited, “And verily this is My Path, so follow it, and do not follow other paths for they will separate you away from His Path.” [8]

 

[6] Shaykh ’Abdul-Qaadir al-Jeelaanee (d.561H) said, “As for al-Firqatun-Naajiyah (the Saved-Sect) it is Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah, and there is no name for Ahlus-Sunnah except one - and that is Ashaabul-Hadeeth (the People of Hadeeth).” [9]

 

[7] Allaah - the One free from all defects, the Most High - orders us to hold fast altogether to the Noble Qur‘aan; and not to be of the mushriks (those who associate partners with Allaah in that which is particular to Him) who split-up their Religion and become shee’an (sects) and hizbs (parties). And the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) informed us that the Jews and the Christians will be divided into many sects and that the Muslims will split-up even more. And that these sects will be fitting for entry into the Fire, due to their deviations and their being far from the Book of their Lord and the Sunnah of their Messenger. And that only one sect will be saved from the Fire and enter Paradise - and that is the Jamaa’ah; those who cling to the Book and the authentic Sunnah and to the actions of the Companions of the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam. O Allaah! Make us from amongst the Saved-Sect; and grant the Muslims the guidance and ability to be from it.

 

Methodology of the Saved-Sect:

 

[1] al-Firqatun-Naajiyah (the Saved-Sect) is that which adheres to the manhaj (methodology) of Allaah’s Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) during his lifetime, and to the minhaaj of his Companions after him: and that is the Noble Qur‘aan which Allaah revealed to His Messenger, and which he explained to his Companions in the authentic Sunnah - ordering the Muslims to cling to these two, saying, “I am leaving amongst you two things, you will never go astray as long as you cling to them: the Book of Allaah and my Sunnah. They will not separate from each other, until you meet me at the Lake.” [10]

 

[2] The Saved-Sect returns to the Word of Allaah and His Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) whenever there is disagreement or difference of opinion; acting upon the saying of Allaah - the Most High, “If you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger, if you do believe in Allaah and the Last Day. That is best and most suitable for final determination.” [11] And He - the Most High – said, “But no, by your Lord! They cannot have any faith until they make you (the Messenger) a judge in all disputes that they have between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decision, but accept them with full submission.” [12]

 

[3] The Saved-Sect does not give precedence to the word of anyone over the Word of Allaah and His Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam), acting upon His - the Most High – saying,

 

“O you who believe! Do not put yourselves forward before Allaah and His Messenger, and have taqwaa of Allaah. Indeed, Allaah is all-Hearing, all-Seeing.” [13]

 

Ibn ’Abbaas - radiyallaahu ’anhu – said, “I fear that stones will descend upon you from the sky, that I say to you that the Messenger of Allaah said; and you say to me that Aboo Bakr and ’Umar say something else!” [14]

 

[4] The Saved-Sect values Tawheed: and it is to single-out Allaah alone in worship, in supplication, in seeking aid and assistance, in seeking refuge in times of ease and hardship, in sacrificing and vow-making, in placing total reliance and trust in Him and in judging by what Allaah has revealed; and all other forms of worship. These are the foundations upon which the true Islaamic governance is based. It is therefore essential to remove Shirk (associating partners with Allaah in those matters that are particular to Him) and its manifestations - which is present in all the Muslim lands - since this is a requirement of Tawheed. And victory is not possible when Tawheed is neglected, nor can Shirk be fought with its like. We must - in this - follow the examples of the Prophets and in particular, the example of our noble Prophet - may the Peace of Allaah and His Prayers be upon them all.

 

[5] The Saved-Sect revive the Sunnah of Allaah’s Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) in their ’ibaadah (worship), sulook (behaviour) and in their lives, thus becoming strangers amongst the people - as Allaah’s Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) mentioned in his saying, “Islaam started as something strange and will return as something strange as it began, so Toobaa (a tree in Paradise) is for the Strangers.” [15] In another narration, “ ... so Toobaa is for the Strangers. Those who correct and put right what the people have corrupted.” [16]

 

[6] The Saved-Sect does not have ta’assub (bigoted adherence) to the sayings of anyone, except the saying of Allaah and the saying of His infallible Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam), who does not speak from his own desires. As for every other person - however elevated his rank - then he errs and makes mistakes, according to his (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) saying, “All the children of Aadam err and commit mistakes, and the best of those who make mistakes are those who turn in repentance.” [17]

 

Imaam Maalik (d. 179H) - rahimahullaah – said, “There is no one after the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam), except that you can take his saying or leave it, with the exception of the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam).” [18]

 

[7] The Saved-Sect are Ahlul-Hadeeth (the People of Hadeeth), about whom the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, “There will not cease to be a group from my Ummah victorious and uppermost upon the truth, those who abandon them will not harm them, until the command of Allaah comes about.” [19]

 

A poet said,

 

“Ahlul-Hadeeth are the people of the Prophet, although;

 

They accompany him not, they are with his every movement.” [20]

 

[8] The Saved-Sect love and honour the mujtahid Imaams (those Scholars who are able to extract rulings from the Book and the Sunnah). However, they do not have ta’assub (bigoted blind adherence) to any particular one of them. On the contrary, they take fiqh (rulings) from the Qur‘aan and the authentic ahaadeeth, upon the understanding, and the sayings, of all of the Scholars - if it is in agreement with the authentic ahaadeeth. Indeed, this agrees with their saying, that you should take it if it agrees with the authentic hadeeth and leave whatever disagrees with it.

 

[imaam Aboo Haneefah (d.150H) - rahimahullaah – said, “If a hadeeth is found to be authentic, then that is my madhhab.” [21]

 

Imaam Maalik (d.179H) - rahimahullaah – said, “Indeed I am only a man. I am sometimes mistaken and at other times correct; so look into my opinions. All that agrees with the Book and the Sunnah, accept it; and all that does not agree with the Book and the Sunnah, then abandon it.” [22]

 

Imaam ash-Shaafi’ee (d.204H) - rahimahullaah – said, “Everything that I say, for which there is something authentically related from the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) contrary to my saying, then the hadeeth of the Prophet comes first. So do not make taqleed (blind-following) of me.” [23]

 

Imaam Ahmad (d.241H) - rahimahullaah – said, “Do not make taqleed (blind-following) of me, nor make taqleed of Maalik, nor of ash-Shaafi’ee, nor of al-Awzaa’ee, nor of ath-Thawree. But take from where they took.” [24]]

 

[9] The Saved-Sect orders the good and forbids the evil. Thus it renounces the innovated ways and destructive parties and groups which split the Ummah: those that innovate in the Religion and innovate with regards the Sunnah of the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) and that of his Companions.

 

[10] The Saved-Sect calls the Muslims to cling to the Qur‘aan and to the Sunnah of the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) and to the way of his Companions, until victory is decreed for them; and until they enter Paradise by the Grace of Allaah and the shifaa’ah (intercession) of His Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam).

 

[11] The Saved-Sect reject those laws which are man-made when they contradict the judgement of Islaam. Rather, it calls to the judgement by the Book of Allaah, which Allaah revealed for the happiness and benefit of mankind, both in this world and in the Hereafter, and Allaah - the Most Perfect, the Most High - knows what it is that will correct and reform them. So His Law is firm and constant, it will not alter for the rest of time, nor does the passage of time alter its values. Indeed, the reason for the misfortunes of this world in general, and the Islaamic world in particular - which is experiencing misfortune, lowliness and humiliation - is: abandoning judging by the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam). And nothing will make the Muslims strong again except by them returning to the teachings of Islaam - individually, collectively and in their governance - acting upon the saying of Allaah, the Most High,

 

“Indeed, never will Allaah change the condition of a people until they change themselves.” [25]

 

[12] The Saved-Sect call the Muslims collectively to Jihaad in the path of Allaah - which is obligatory upon every Muslim in accordance with his ability and strength. And Jihaad comprises the following:-

 

Jihaad with the Tongue and the Pen: to call the Muslims and others to the adherence of the true and correct Islaam and adherence to Tawheed free from the Shirk which has spread in the Islaamic lands; and which Allaah’s Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) informed us would appear amongst the Muslims, saying, “The Hour will not be established until a group from my Ummah will follow the mushriks, and large groups [26] of my Ummah will worship idols.” [25]

 

[ii] Jihaad with Wealth: and it is to give wealth for the propagation of Islaam and for printing da’wah books based upon the correct approach. It also consists of the distribution of funds to the weak Muslims to incline their hearts and to strengthen them. It also consists of the manufacture and purchase of weapons and equipping the mujaahideen - providing them with food, clothing and other requirements.

 

[iii] Jihaad with Oneself: it consists of fighting and participating in battle for the victory of Islaam, such that the Word of Allaah is made uppermost, whilst the word of kufr (disbelief) is debased and made low.

 

And the noble Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) pointed to these three types of Jihaad in his saying: “Make Jihaad against the mushrikeen with your wealth, yourselves and your tongues.” [28]

 

And the ruling concerning Jihaad in the path of Allaah is according to the following cases:-

 

Fard ’Ayn (individual obligation): When the enemy aggressors take over any part of the Muslim lands - such as Palestine. So it is an obligation upon the Muslims - whether with their wealth or their selves - to drive out the Jews from Palestine and return Masjidul-Aqsaa to the Muslims - the Muslims being sinful until they do so [Note: It is important to understand that this ruling is bound the the rulers and scholars of the Muslim nations and requires great understanding and explanation from the scholars of Islam, it is not as some of the deviated sects have applied in turning towards terrorism and acts of evil].

 

Fard Kifaayah (collective obligation): If some Muslims carry it out, then it is no longer obligatory upon the rest of them.

 

The Signs of the Saved-Sect:

 

[1] al-Firqatun-Naajiyah (the Saved-Sect) are few amongst the people. Allaah’s Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) prayed for them in the following words: “Toobaa (a tree in Paradise) is for the Strangers - the people who are righteous amongst a people who are mostly wicked, those that disobey them are more than those who obey them.” [29] And the noble Qur‘aan inform about them. So it says in praise of them,

 

“But few of My Servants are grateful.” [30]

 

[2] The Saved-Sect are abandoned by most people, who slander them and ridicule them with insulting names. So there is for them an example in the Prophets - ’alayhimus-salaam - about whom Allaah said,

 

“And so We appointed for every Prophet an enemy; devils amongst mankind and jinn, inspiring one another with flowery discourses by way of deception.” [31]

 

And Allaah’s Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) was treated in this way by his people. So when he called them to Tawheed they called him a sorcerer and a liar - whereas prior to this they used to call him as-Saadiq (truthful) and al-Ameen (trustworthy).

 

[3] Shaykh ’Abdul-’Azeez Ibn Baaz - hafidhahullaah - was asked about al-Firqatun-Naajiyah (the Saved-Sect), so he said, “They are the Salafees [32] and all who adhere to the path of the Salafus-Saalih (the Pious Predecessors).”

 

The Aided and Victorious Group:

 

[1] The Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, “There will not cease to be a group from my Ummah victorious upon the truth, not being harmed by those who oppose them until the command of Allaah comes about, and they are like that.” [33]

 

[2] He (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, “When the people of Shaam (Syria, Jordan, Palestine) become corrupt then there will be no good in you. And there will not cease to be a group from my Ummah being helped; those that oppose them will not harm them, until the hour is established.” [34]

 

[3] Ibnul-Mubaarak (d.151H) - rahimahullaah – said, “According to me, they are Ashaabul-Hadeeth (the Scholars of Hadeeth).” [35]

 

[4] Imaam al-Bukhaaree (d.256H) - rahimahullaah – said, “It means: Ahlul-Hadeeth (the People of Hadeeth).” [36]

 

[5] Imaam Ahmad (d.241H) - rahimahullaah – said, “If this Taa‘ifatul-Mansoorah (Victorious and Aided Group) is not Ashaabul-Hadeeth, then I do not know who they are.” [37]

 

[al-Qaadee ’Iyaad (d.544H) - rahimahullaah – said, “What Ahmad intended was Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah: those who hold the ’aqeedah of Ahlul-Hadeeth.” [38]]

 

[6] Indeed, Ahlul-Hadeeth, by virtue of their competence in the study of the Sunnah, are not attached to any person, but are altogether concerned with the Sunnah of the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam); his guidance, his manners, his battles, and whatever else pertains to him.

 

[7] Imaam ash-Shaafi’ee said, whilst addressing Imaam Ahmad, “You are more knowledgeable about Hadeeth than I am. So if there comes to you a Hadeeth that is authentic, then make me aware of it, until I accept it and accord with it - it is from Basrah.” [39]

 

So Ahlul-Hadeeth - may Allaah make us amongst them - do not have ta’assub (bigoted blind adherence) for the saying of any particular person, however elevated, or whatever position he holds. Rather, they cling to the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam), as opposed to those who do not ascribe themselves to Ahlul-Hadeeth; those who have ta’assub to their Imaams - who have actually prohibited them from this - just as Ahlul-Hadeeth readily cling to the sayings of their Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam). So it is not surprising that Ahlul-Hadeeth are al-Firqatun-Naajiyah (the Saved-Sect ) and at-Taa‘ifatul-Mansoorah (the Aided and Victorious Group).

 

[8] al-Khateeb al-Baghdaadee (d.463H) said, “And if only the people of blameworthy opinion busied themselves with beneficial knowledge, and seeking the Sunnah of the Messenger of the Lord of Creation, and followed the way of the fuqahaa‘ and muhaddithoon - then they would find that this would be sufficient for them. And the narration would take the place of his opinion which he used to hold; since the Hadeeth comprehends the fundamentals of Tawheed, the reported Threats and the Promises, the Attributes of the Lord of Creation - who is High above the saying of the apostates, it also contains information about Paradise and Hell-Fire, and what Allaah has prepared therein for the pious and the wicked, and what Allaah has created in the earths and the heavens, and the remarkable things and great signs, and a mention of the nearest Angels - those drawn up in ranks and those who recite tasbeeh.

 

And the Hadeeth comprehends stories of the about the pious ascetics and Awliyaa‘, wonderful admonition and sayings of the Scholars. It contains histories of the kings of the ’Arabs and non-’Arabs, and the accounts of past nations, and descriptions of the battles of the Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam); his expeditions, rulings, judgements, sermons, warnings, predictions and miracles. It also contains information about the number of his Wives and Children, his Relatives and Companions, and a mention of their excellence and merit, and a mention of their lives, their actions and their ancestry. And the Hadeeth contains tafseer of the Qur‘aan, information and the wise remembrance contained in it. It contains the sayings of the Companions about its preserved rulings, the different sayings they held, as well as those of the Scholars and mujtahideen.

 

And Allaah made Ahlul-Hadeeth (the People of Hadeeth) the pillar of the Sharee’ah and the destroyer of every despicable innovation. So they are Allaah’s wardens amongst His creation, and the link between the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) and his Ummah, and the strivers to preserve His Religion. So their light shines brightly, their excellence remains, their signs are clear, their positions evident and their proofs are over-powering. And all the sects coil themselves around vain desires and prefer opinion which they cling to - except for Ahlul-Hadeeth, since the Book is their provision, the Sunnah is their proof, the Messenger their leader and to him is their ascription. They do not deviate upon vain desires, nor turn to mere conjecture. They accept what is reported from the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) and they are the trustworthy and reliable ones, who memorise the Religion and are its treasurers, its storehouses of knowledge and its bearers. If anyone differs about a hadeeth, then it is referred back to them. Thus, their judgement is accepted and listened to. From them is every Scholar and Imaam, and every true ascetic, and one of excellence, and precise reciter and righteous Khateeb. They are the Saved-Sect and their way is the straight one...” [40]

 

May Allaah make us from amongst Ahlul-Hadeeth, and provide us with the ability to act upon it, love its people and to act in accordance with it.

 

And Allah Knows Best!

 

Source

[Ms DD]

Salaam aleykum CG

 

Sorry walaalo to reply so late. I have had couple of busy weeks at work in preparation my holiday to Somalia.

 

QUOTE]Originally posted by Caano Geel:

The cilmi, is interesting, because you are are saying that you have been exposed to new knowledge which has led to change your mind in someway. My principal point is that everyone is exposed to new knowledge.

 

For example, personally i reject the principle that i cant give my friends a hug or shake the hand of someone that i meet. The pious (by my and those around me's definition) people i've spoken to across a number of cultures also reject this. So are we all wrong?

You see CG, I found the example you gave above very telling. The very basic teachings of Islam is clear cut and the ijma agreed upon it. Your example for instance there are clear hadiths outlining this very subject. Of course one has the right to reject and accept it. But this information is availabe for all to see if anyone is interested. Not sure if "So are we all wrong?" is a rethoric question, but I can safely say that that you are all wrong based on the authentic hadeeths. So if i was to present this 'new' knowledge, would you change your position? As far as i am concerned, I am not aware of any new knowledge that you would abrogate the authentic hadiths with regards to hugs and shaking someone's hands. If there are any, would you care to share?

 

 

Originally posted by Caano Geel:

About the heart, your saying it doesnt matter, its all in my heart its what i feel. In that case, its independent of the world around me. and furthemore, since people hold different things closer to their heart, then there are as many islams as hearts. Is that really so?

You asked me earlier where untainted of Islam was. I said "in our hearts". I misunderstood you earlier. The untainted Islam is how the prophet (saw) and his companions (ra) ruled their society. It was powered and governed by discipline and order. It had a social and political structure. It had financial and economical accountability. It had a military response and a source of justice. We have the pefect example right there. There was this hadith that emphasised this point:

 

Imam Nawawi's Forty Hadith 28

It was narrated on the authority of Abu Najih al-Irbad bin Sariyah, radiyallahu 'anhu, who said:

The Messenger of Allah, sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam, delivered an admonition that made our hearts fearful and our eyes tearful. We said, "O Messenger of Allah, it is as if this were a farewell sermon, so advise us." He said, "I enjoin you to have Taqwa of Allah and that you listen and obey, even if a slave is made a ruler over you. He among you who lives long enough will see many differences. So for you is to observe my Sunnah and the Sunnah of the rightly-principled and rightly-guided successors, holding on to them with your molar teeth. Beware of newly-introduced matters, for every innovation (bid'ah) is an error."

 

 

Islam, is both a system of life and a choice of life-style, it offers both the promise of a true success in life and answering the question of the purpose of life. Islam does not separate the religious aspect of the society from the social and the political aspect. On the contrary, in Islam, all aspects of the society are bound by the discipline, or the dynamic of Shareeah.

 

Originally posted by Caano Geel:

 

1) in your view point what are the basic tenants/principles, ie the set in stone cant negotiate type?

That is huge topic itself. But everything from the Quran and Sunnah cant be changed. I cant go into it now as i am pressed for time.

 

Originally posted by Caano Geel:

2) it islam evolves, then is it ok to reject the proposition of going back to a basic principle. Since change or evolution signifies that there cant be any notions of basic, just what is right at that point.

In Islam, there is good bid'ah (innovations) and bad one. Bid`ah is broken up in two divisions, Bid`ah `Amal ( in actions) and Bid`ah `Itiqaadi (in belief) and their sub-divisions.

For more info on this, check:

http://www.sunnah.org/events/srilanka/debate_details.htm

 

Basic teachings of Islam can not evolve. For instance: No one can say 'alcohol is halaal now'.

 

I will go into this bit more when i return inshallah.