Girl barred from school for wearing the Jilbab

[Blessed]

*cough, cough* Stop it with that sprinkiling rubish, it's getting in my eyes :mad:

 

different school? Truth was talking about the school in Luton was he not? My dear, the first article clearly say ‘Icknield High School in Luton’ ..... Perhaps it’s old age Read it again uncle gee - both articles talk of the same school

 

Also, this is a secular state- I didn't deny that. In fact, I'm a voter, remember?

 

So the only laws you can use are secular laws that do consult religious texts in these matters. Otherwise, any fool can claim that it is against their religion to do such and such. I thought that would have been obvious. But if your wise ness requires convincing, maybe you should contact the CRE?

 

As for Scholars….. I must have missed the scholarly opinion there, can you quote that for me *bad eye sight must be infectious

 

But, anyhoot! Did you hear about Mr. Badawis verdict on Hijab during the France fiasco? 'Scholars aren't always right, dear!

 

Speaking of which the 3rd link was for this article … interestingly enough – it states the British stance on the hijab in schools issue.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3477109.stm

I copied the second one twice.

 

 

*applies blusher on cheeks*

[NGONGE]

I reread the original article and I have to confess that I got it wrong. There is no mention of any scholars or any Islamic bodies being involved (I’m sure I read about their involvement somewhere). I take it all back. Still, as a face saving exercise, I’m going to remind you that the two schools are not the same.

 

 

“Stuart Moore, assistant head teacher at Denbigh School, said the girl had not been excluded, but had taken the decision to be absent.”

 

The above is from one of your links and relates to the 15 year old. The school that banned the Hijaab is a different one.

 

 

It was a slight knock but My wisdom still remains undiminished.

 

** Sprinkle **

[Truth Seeker]

THE CORRECT ISLAMIC RULING ON THE MUSLIM WOMAN’S DRESS

 

The recent plans to introduce anti-hijab laws in France and Germany have thrown into the limelight once again, numerous discussions on the Islamic dress code for women. Many have asked, is the hijab an actual obligation in Islam or an issue of personal choice for the woman? Should the dress code take a specific form or is it the right of the woman to decide for herself what she considers as being modest attire?

 

There are a few Muslims that argue that the hijab or khimar (headcovering) is not an Islamic obligation commanded by the Islamic texts but rather a personal choice of the woman. They argue that it is sufficient for the woman to dress modestly according to her own opinion of what modesty entails. For example, Gammal Banna, an Egyptian author of several books on the rights of Muslim women and brother of the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood commented, “The head scarf is not an obligation, but derives from an erroneous reading of the Koran ... Wearing the headscarf or not is part of a debate on morals and not on religious obligations ... Whether a woman wears a scarf or a mini-skirt is a matter of individual liberty.” He also stated that he did not support the French President’s decision to ban the hijab because it interfered with the personal choice of the woman to wear a headscarf.

 

Such comments have been introduced in recent times by those whose lives have been afflicted by the western thoughts. Such misguided notions were noticeably absent throughout the glorious history of the Islam, over the past thousand years. The commands and prohibitions of Islam are contained in the texts of Islam, the Quran and Sunnah, and it is these that one should examine when seeking the rule of Allah (swt). It is clear that the covering of the hair in the presence of non-Mahrem men (those men the woman can marry) by the hijab or khimar is definitely an Islamic obligation (fard) commanded clearly by the Islamic texts. Allah(swt) says in Surah Nur,

 

وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَى جُيُوبِهِنَّ

 

“Let them draw their head-coverings (khumur) over their necks and chest” [TMQ An-Nur: 31].

 

The head-coverings (khumur) were worn by the women of Quraish in the time of the Prophet (saw). They used to cover their heads, and the cloth would run down their backs exposing their necks and chests. Hence the command to wear the head-covering specifies also how to cover (covering all the head, neck and chest).

 

In one hadith reported by Aisha (ra), she said that Asmaa bint Abu Bakr entered the quarters of the Messenger of Allah (saw) wearing thin clothes. The Messenger (saw) turned his face away and said, “Oh Asmaa, if the woman reaches puberty, it is not allowed to be seen from her except this and this”, and he pointed to his face and hands.

 

Fortunately, most Muslim women understand the hijab as an obligation but there is often confusion or misconceptions of what the hijab is, and what the dress code is for the woman in public life. So some may view the dupatta (the see-through scarf that accompanies the shalwar kameez) as sufficient even though the hair and neck can be seen. Some may place a loose scarf over their heads while some of their hair remains exposed. Some wear the bandanna, covering all the hair but exposing the ears and neck. Finally, there are those who may wear the hijab correctly and cover all their hair, neck and ears but accompany it with a T-shirt and tight jeans or above ankle skirt, exposing their arms, legs and showing the shape of their body.

 

In Islam, the rules pertaining to the covering of the woman both in private life and in the public arena are not a matter of personal interpretation according to the concept of modesty, personal choice, or personal opinion. Rather they are detailed and specific as with all the Ahkham (rules) of Islam. For example, Allah (swt) has not commanded the prayer and then left people to choose for themselves how to pray. Rather the actions in each and every prayer have been described and specified. Similarly, Allah (swt) has not ordered the woman to wear the hijab or khimar and then left it to personal preference as to its form. Rather the rules of the Islamic dress code for the woman have been described in detail. In such a matter, the Muslimah would follow the obligation to cover in the defined manner, the way she would follow the rules for prayer. The mind, and personal opinions have no part to play in the hijab, as they have no part to play in the prayer. Allah (swt) says,

 

فَلاَ وَرَبِّكَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ حَتَّىَ يُحَكِّمُوكَ فِيمَا شَجَرَ بَيْنَهُمْ ثُمَّ لاَ يَجِدُواْ فِي أَنفُسِهِمْ حَرَجًا مِّمَّا قَضَيْتَ وَيُسَلِّمُواْ تَسْلِيمًا

 

“But no, by thy Lord, they can have no (real) faith until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against thy decisions but accept them with the fullest of submission” [Al-Nisa: 65]

 

As clear in the ayah and hadith mentioned earlier, the adult Muslim woman should cover everything except her face and hands in the presence of all non-mahrem men (those to whom she can marry). The clothes should not be thin such that her skin can be seen, or tight such that the shape of her body can be seen. The whole body of the woman, including her neck and hair (even one hair), except for her face and hands are awrah (that which it is haram to reveal to any non-mahrem man). In Surah An-Nur, Allah (swt) says,

 

وَقُل لِّلْمُؤْمِنَاتِ يَغْضُضْنَ مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِنَّ وَيَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوجَهُنَّ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَى جُيُوبِهِنَّ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا لِبُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ آبَائِهِنَّ أَوْ آبَاء بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَائِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَاء بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ إِخْوَانِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِي إِخْوَانِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِي أَخَوَاتِهِنَّ أَوْ نِسَائِهِنَّ أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُنَّ أَوِ التَّابِعِينَ غَيْرِ أُوْلِي الْإِرْبَةِ مِنَ الرِّجَالِ أَوِ الطِّفْلِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يَظْهَرُوا عَلَى عَوْرَاتِ النِّسَاء وَلَا يَضْرِبْنَ بِأَرْجُلِهِنَّ لِيُعْلَمَ مَا يُخْفِينَ مِن زِينَتِهِنَّ وَتُوبُوا إِلَى اللَّهِ جَمِيعًا أَيُّهَا الْمُؤْمِنُونَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ

 

“And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent and to to draw their head-coverings all over Juyubihinna (i.e. necks and chest, etc.) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brother's sons, or their sister's sons, or their women , or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allah to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful.” [An-Nur:31]

 

Ibn Abbas explained the words, “...beyond what may (decently) be apparent thereof” as referring to the face and hands.

 

In addition, when the woman leaves her home and enters the public arena, she has been commanded to wear the khimar (a head cover that covers the entire head, neck, and the chest) and the jilbab (a one piece outer dress that covers her indoor clothes and drapes down to the floor). It is not sufficient that she wears the khimar accompanied by a skirt and blouse or shirt and trousers. Allamah ibn Al Hazam writes,

 

"In the Arabic language of the Prophet, Jilbab is the outer sheet which covers the entire body. A piece of cloth which is too small to cover the entire body could not be called Jalbab." [Al Muhalla, vol. 3, p. 217]. If she leaves the home without these two pieces of clothing then she would be sinful for she has neglected a command from Allah (swt). The evidence for the jilbab is also clear. Allah (swt) says in Surah Al-Ahzab,

 

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ قُل لِّأَزْوَاجِكَ وَبَنَاتِكَ وَنِسَاء الْمُؤْمِنِينَ يُدْنِينَ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِن جَلَابِيبِهِنَّ ذَلِكَ أَدْنَى أَن يُعْرَفْنَ فَلَا يُؤْذَيْنَ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ غَفُورًا رَّحِيمًا

 

“Oh Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (Jalabeeb) all over their bodies.” [Al-Ahzab:59]

 

In addition, in one hadith narrated by Umm Atiyya (ra), she said, “The Messenger of Allah (saw) ordered us to bring out the young women, the menstruating women and veiled women for the two Eid festivals. The menstruating women were to keep away from prayer, yet witnessing the goodness and the dawa (address) to the Muslims. I asked, ‘O Messenger of Allah, what about the one who does not have a Jilbab?’. He said, ‘Let her use the Jilbab of her sister.’” The Prophet (saw) maintained the insistence that the women wear the jilbab even if she did not possess one, i.e. she would have to borrow one.

 

A Muslim woman should not imitate the western woman who uses her own mind to decide what to wear, and what is appropriate to be seen in. Aisha (ra) is narrated as having said to some women from the tribe of the Bani Tamim who were wearing dresses made of thin material when they were visiting her, "If you are mumin (true believers) this is not the type of dress suitable for mumin women. But if you are not mumin, then do as you please."

 

Muslim women of today should take guidance from the Muslim women of the past who were praised by the Messenger (saw) and gained the Pleasure of Allah (swt). When the verses for covering were revealed they responded immediately without a second of delay by covering their awrah with whatever they could find of material. Safiyyah, daughter of Shaybah, said that Aisha (ra) mentioned the women of Ansar, praised them and said good words about them. She then said, “When Surat an-Nur came down, they took the curtains, tore them and made head covers (veils) of them.” (Sunan Abu Dawud).

 

Hence the hijab is much more than covering modestly, or following traditional or contemporary customs and practices. It is an Islamic obligation that has precise rules, and needs to be fulfilled in the manner that Islam has prescribed.

 

Dr. Nazreen Nawaz

[-Serenity-]

Amaani I still think you're taking this whole thing out of context. This is a school..where every student is expected to dress the same! thats da rule. Which part of school uniform doesnt register well with you? This is not a general debate on "dress code" but a specific one.

 

Even in muslim countries, students are expected to adhere to school rules and regulations..and the specific school uniform that's considered modest and practical.

[Blessed]

Originally posted by Seven of Nine:

Amaani

I still think you're taking this whole thing out of context. This is a school..where every student is expected to dress the same! thats da

rule

. Which part of

school uniform

doesnt register well with you? This is not a general debate on "dress code" but a specific one.

The part where you have disobey your creator to make your head teacher happy. If, for a moment you put your personal perception on correct hijab aside; Assuming, that the sister in question is right in her opinion that Muslimah MUST wear the jilbaab where ever she goes and not doing so is disobedience to Allah. Would you still advocate for school rules? Is the schools uniform more important than the Islamic uniform – and has the school the right to refuse access to Muslim students.

 

Furthermore, would you dismiss this sister as an extremist when other British schools with uniforms allow their students to wear the jilbaab. Would you still dismiss her when the law of the state supports her case (after all gaalos are not all bad- so why underestimate them?) .. and when the said school is has now reviewed their idiotic policy?

 

Even in muslim countries, students are expected to adhere to school rules and regulations..and the specific school uniform that's considered modest and practical.

I don’t know about Muslim countries – most of their schools don’t even adher to the Islamic principles of providing separate schools for boys and girls etc. In the case of Somalia, the hijaab was actually banned by the former government. – but there was a uniform.

 

Personally, I went to school in KSA, it was girls only - but we still had to wear our hijaabs to school and back! And it went nicely with our uniform Most Islamic schools in the UK have the same policies.

 

NGONGE

No questioning of your wisedom dear, but a new glasses might help

[-Serenity-]

Originally posted by Amaani:

[QB]If, for a moment you put your personal perception on correct hijab aside; Assuming, that the sister in question is right in her opinion that Muslimah MUST wear the jilbaab where ever she goes and not doing so is disobedience to Allah. Would you still advocate for school rules? Is the schools uniform more important than the Islamic uniform – and has the school the right to refuse access to Muslim students.

1st of all, I'm not talkin about my personal perception of hijaab but the generally accepted perception. 2ndly, there is nothing 2 assume, jilbaab is not a MUST. 3rdly, from my understanding, the school provides provisions to wear the hijaab.

 

Furthermore, would you dismiss this sister as an extremist when other British schools with uniforms allow their students to wear the jilbaab. Would you still dismiss her when the law of the state supports her case (after all gaalos are not all bad- so why underestimate them?) .. and when the said school is has now reviewed their idiotic policy?

I'm glad the school has adhered to their set policies...however, I do think it was an unnecessary fuss + there could be consequences where other students follow suit n choose what to wear to school.

 

I don’t know about Muslim countries – most of their schools don’t even adher to the Islamic principles of providing separate schools for boys and girls etc. In the case of Somalia, the hijaab was actually banned by the former government. – but there was a uniform.

They do... almost all public schools are separate.

 

Lastly, I think we are arguing somewhat from the same perspective....differently.

[NGONGE]

She lost the case.

 

I’ve got to admit though, having seen a photo of the girl in her “jilbaab” I really don’t see what the fuss is all about. It seems that the Islamic uniform the school was providing was nothing more than the Asian Shalwar Kameez (sp?), more of a cultural apparel than an Islamic one. I’m not sure what the positives of this case are! She lost, she was asked to attend other schools that allow Muslim girls to wear the Jilbaab and most importantly, she set a precedent. The next time a parent, school governor or Head Master objects to a Muslims girl’s attire they’ll quote this ruling and the game will be up. May Allah (swt) ease things up for all of us.

[N.O.R.F]

Amaani says:

 

The part where you have disobey your creator to make your head teacher happy.

What about the part where you are supposed to obey the laws of the land?

[NGONGE]

^^^ I’m sure the sister can speak for herself so I’m not here to save any damsel in distress, bro. However, your question in reply to her comment makes the whole thing seem slightly uneven, saaxib. My personal assumption (I must be getting some of these assumptions from somewhere – could I have been paying attention in my Deen classes without knowing?) is that Allah’s (swt) laws take precedence over the laws of men. Therefore, her point makes sense I suppose.

 

 

PS

I’m talking about your question above in the context it was posted in. Not her reply to an earlier discussion regarding something else.

 

 

PPS

I’ve taken to assume things that I know are true because unlike many of our revered brothers and sisters here who seem to have the ability to recall an Aaayah or Soorah effortlessly, I suspect I might be suffering from the early signs of senile dementia (that’s my excuse anyway).

[N.O.R.F]

^^

 

Allah’s (swt) laws take precedence over the laws of men.

Very true brother, put upon living in a non-islamic country there are times when laws collide. On these times it is common that you do not put yourself at a disadvantage, especialy when a perfectly halal uniform is supplied by the school.

 

Now, if i stopped paying car insurance because it is haram i will probably go to jail, which is obviously a disadvantage for myself therefore i will not do that. Now i'm i 'harami'?

 

With all due respect to the sister, she will now be at a disadvantage in her education due to nearly 2 years without school.

 

I’ve taken to assume things that I know are true because unlike many of our revered brothers and sisters here who seem to have the ability to recall an Aaayah or Soorah effortlessly

Likewise!

[Truth Seeker]

The People that are saying that the jilbaab is not an obligation are failing to bring evidence for their view, i can understand this because none exists.

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Salaan...

 

Originally posted by Truth Seeker:

The People that are saying that the jilbaab is not an obligation are failing to bring evidence for their view, i can understand this because none exists.

I am not comfortable debating about Islaamic issues because I am not in a suitable position to do so. However, allow me to let you taste your own medicine--an aayad from one of your articles on above, which clarifies your quote above:

 

"Let them draw their head-coverings (khumur) over their necks and chest" [TMQ An-Nur: 31].

 

 

Now, is there any contradiction between that aayad and how these sisters dress?

 

What most seef-labood wadaado don't understand is that they are quick to jump to the interpretations and disregard the facts.

 

Now back to your quote again, the point is not whether you wear jilbaab or garbasaar, the point is as long as what you wear is intended its primary purpose. Nothing else. Thus jilbaab does not have an exclusiveness to that regard. It just becomes same as garbasaar or another maro.

 

So some of those ladies who wear jilbaab almost all the time have this attitude of holier-than-thou to other sisters who don't. There is hardly an evidence that supports their "superior dressing" save from their own personal interpretation. {P.S.: Why is jilbaab coloured? According to most interpretations, only the colour black--Sacuudiya iyo Iiraan comes to mind quickly--is allowed, but I don't know jilbaab-wearing sisters know this.}

 

I note again. One further thing is that we Soomaalis are in a habit to be ashamed anything remotely considred Soomaali. This has to change.

 

I personally don't care whether the hoos-gundi {macawiis} I wear is also wore by men from Bangladesh, or Malaysian men. I don't care, I do wear it too. Koofi Barawaani too. I don't care if another version of it is wore by Sinjibaari {Zansibari} men. I don't care. If my sisters use cilaan, I don't care if Hindis and Pakistanis or Carab ladies use it likewise. I don't give a...

 

Most things are borrowed from one another and becomes universal domain, so whether or not they borrowed from us or vice versa, one thing is clear: All of those stuff is now part of Soomaali culture, period, just as it has had been in last centuries.

[Blessed]

^^^ Whats the difference between the sisters in your pic - and this sister?

 

 

 

North,

 

I wasn't talking about insurance and I’m not talking about voting. <--- Are totaly different subjects that are covred by different fiqh points.

 

I’m talking about something that is generally acceptable by the British law and schools but that is being banned in one particular school for the most ludicrous of reasons. The school has two reasons for the ban 1. Safety 2. Cultural blah, blah!

 

 

This isn't an issue of health and safety - as it passed the safety standards of other schools. Come on – man – how many jilbaabi science graduates do you know? Besides, that - what message does this send about jilbaabi sisters in general? They are a health and safety risk and should there fore regarded a security risk?

 

 

It also isn’t about cultural sensitivity. Again, other schools make that allowance. It's a school that wants to limit the girls dress because they feel like it. And how can it culturally sensitive when their xalaal uniform supplied consists of a sarwaal kameez.

 

Excuse me, but I didn't realise that the 'sarwal kameez was Islamic attire. I thought it more an Asian dress. I'm I the only that sees the racial incrimination of this whole thing... to be Muslim you must be Asian. BUT that’s another topic!

 

As far her missing school goes- I don't know how her parents allow that - she can easily go to a less sensitive school - but that’s another discussion.

 

As for the interpretations – there are differences of opinion – from those who say you should only dress modestly – to those who say you should cover every part of your body including the face…. We need to respect our differences. Otherwise, you’ll have the long bearded dimwits who say ‘we are happy with school’ talking alongside the sister who wants to wear her jilbaab.

 

 

ANY way..Did any one watch Panorama last Sunday…

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdulillah...Wa Salamu alaykum

 

 

I must say my heart lit up as I read maanimeenah's post, very inspiring, walilhamd,

 

about Jilbab, for the arabic speakers will know that Juyubihinna is the plurar form of jilbab, and Allah has ordered our sisters to where it, in surah (24:31) read it in arabic plzzz.

also read the tafsir of this ayah. for verily we need the correct understanding....

 

Allah said in surah 16:44," And we have not send you (oh Muhammad) except that you explain to the people what has been send down unto them"

 

(...and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms, etc.) and not to reveal their adornment)(24:17)

[N.O.R.F]

Amaanimeenah:

 

1) This is Great Britain, a kafir country who dont give a damn about you!

 

2) There was already a perfectly good uniform provided by the school.

 

3) The school is your gateway to a better more educated life.

 

4) If you do not adhere to the school rules, this may result in suspension which will not be very good for your education.

 

5) The form of governance here is made to suit those who formed it in the first place.

 

6) Why not just bite your tongue, wait until college, then wear the Jilbaab with pride?

 

I just think it was pointless and has lead to even more schools reviewing their policies toward not just the Jilbaab but also to the xijaab. Therefore, this court case has infact had a negative effect rather than a positive one for young muslims girls in the UK.