Mogadishu: Warlords Vs Courts :

[Alle-ubaahne]

Originally posted by Castro:

^ With all of my reservations about the "wadaado", I support them against the warlords. If nothing else, these men are guided by faith and not greed.

Its time to celebrate about the remarks of the great Castro! Now, we are indeed the spearhead of SOL populations.

[Zaylici]

How did you know that qanyare or islamic courts have killed this or that; it takes years of police work to identify the individual who committed a murderer; since non of you have the means to investigate the matters, your veiws appear to based on your passionsn or religious beliefs rather than on cold reason and evidance; I was reminded this: person's interest or group's interest rules supreme in political matters.

WHy not be clear on that?

[Castro]

Alleubaahne, it doesn't take much to please you, does it? Saaxib it's unfortunate what's going on in Muqdishu and the rest of Somalia but I'll take a wadaad over a warlord any day. In my view, the worst wadaad is better than the best warlord.

[Jacpher]

You two must have a love/hate relationship. I wonder what it takes to keep the compassion going!

 

Regardless of the position we take, it's sad to see a new war in Mogdisho of all places. Ethiopia and beerlaawe are partying right now, another sadness in addition to the innocent lives lost.

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Salaan...

 

Para., widaayoow, I personally follow the old, classic definition of wadaad and waranle. You can either be one, not both at the same time.

 

Thus, in this simplistic definition --and I agree it is a narrow definition-- wadaad always was the antithesis of waranle. For one, wadaado in those old days were nabadoono, not the warmongers.

 

About the allegation of who murdered brother Cabdiqaadir Yaxye, the victim's own oori did make this allegation few months after his murder. She was the only other person in that room Yaxye was murdered in besides the murderers. She named the orchestrator Ceyroow, an Afghan war veteran and commander in this new war.

 

[The website that reported escapes me now, though I think it was midnimo.com.]

 

As far as the attribution finger going to Qanyare's door, it doesn't logically seem so. For one, he was at his duug as other dagaal oogiyaasha, sincerely condemning.

 

Secondly, warlords that hijacked the capital, Muqdisho, for 15 years. In those years, they confronted their enemies maalin cadeey oo is qaris ahna jirin. In those 15 years, clandestine political assasinations in Xamar were unheard of. It "coincidently" coincides with this new Maxkamado group.

 

Thirdly, C/qaadir Yaxye kaligiis lama dilin. Ciidamo fara badan ayaa la dilay, some who were close to the warlords themselves.

 

Fourthly, C/qaadir Yaxye had very close relationship with Americans and other Westerners. His organization was funded by Western NGOs. He advocated a lasting, peaceful solution; then a permanent democratic institutions in dalka laga dhiiri galiyo. Waala ogyahay dadka neceb those ideas.

 

Fifthly, the killing of BBC reporter by a sniper who just arrived a year ago this month in Xamar.

 

Sixthly, the amateurishly assembled bomb attached on to an old motorcycle that prematurely weft off on the route that was expected to use by an international assessment team. This is a first. Remote-controlled bombs waligood Soomaali maqal lee ku ogaayeen.

 

Seventhly, the two bombs had targeted Geedi. After the first one at the stadium, which was hand thrown bomb, the second was a bit more sophisticated being motion-controlled, which targeted his delagation from Cisaleey airport to Xamar.

 

Eightly, qabuurihii Talyaaniga lasoo faagay. No "wadaad" Muslim goes after long dead qabuuro, be it gaalo or Muslim. Even the pagan, barbarian Qureyshtii, the arch-enemies of Nabiga [scw], resisted trying that.

 

Marka you can connect the dots. These aren't all isolated, coincident events. There is a very organized group at hand, harbouring even more sinister agenda.

 

Waaka baxay this debate since dagaalkaan u leexatay a qabyaalad one. It no longer is "wadaad" vs. warlord.

[Jacpher]

Mission accomplished.

 

Leave it at the hands of the jury to deliberate. The only problem my friend, you have presented one side story or evidence you may call it. That makes you a prosecutor, one whose intent is to lock somebody up for good.

[xiinfaniin]

MMA,

 

After reading your posts about this topic it’s clear where you stand on this issue. You seem to have resolved to side with the warlords on the basis of sketchy facts and incomplete hints. It’s one thing to be against particular ideology, saaxiib, but it’s another to resort to pure defamation, and slur those who you oppose. The ‘Wadaado’, good MMA, are no assassins. Clear is what they stand for, and the means they elected to reach. They are men of faith. They mean good. Perfect they are not, as the nature of man dictates. But good men who attempted to repair the damage of civil war they indeed are. Where have you been, good MMA, to classify Wadaado and put them in the un’waranle’ category? Is that not the peek of naiveté? And what are you opposed exactly, good friend?

 

It seems you and good Tolstoy seem to have been frozen in time as it regards the Islamist politics of present time Somalia. You keep referring Al-Itihaad when there’s none. It’s like referring SSDF when talking about present day Puntland or keep invoking SNM’s name when discussing about Somaliland. You see my friends what started as da’wa activity in late sixties and seventies, and progressed to a political movement in late eighties, and evolved in to an armed militia in early nineties had indeed sloughed to a mature and established entity that wields cultural and political influence that far surpasses than you willing to concede. Their contribution to economical, educational, and, I dare say, political aspects of our society is more than you’re prepared to admit. In some regions where God has blessed with stability they are politically integrated with the existing systems (i.e. Somaliland, and Puntland). In those regions there was no need to arm themselves as it would have been unnecessary and served for no good purpose. In Mogadishu, however, they felt responsibility to fill the void left by the lack of government. That necessitated establishing the Islamic courts. For the courts to function properly in a city that knows no laws it must have armed men who can protect it. It is not a hidden secret that these courts benefited the city and provided security and stability in the areas in which they exist. The notion that armed Wadaado are no good at all is blatant absurdity. Do you not see how illogical your argument is when you deny the men of faith from the realm of piety simply because they choose to serve their community, and in the process--quite naturally-- arm themselves?

 

 

In the final analysis the shortcomings of these courts would not be what it have done, rather it would be what it did not do, but it could have done. The fact that the courts are dominated by one clan is non issue for me. I judge them by what they do, and not who they are. So repeating the war has taken a clannish turn is a cheap dent for me. If Qanyare’s clan chooses to support their wicked man so be it. Every sane Somali would expect that. If the court’s constituencies happen to be heavily from one particular clan so be it. In this stage of Somali civil war we can’t avoid to have another dimension to our conflict. Armed mercenaries are a wrong variable in to the civil war equitation. Lets get rig off it, I say.

[Xoogsade]

Xiinfaniin, well said. MMA caadadiisa waaye inuu wadaadada wax ka sheego. He is on record doing the same thing in the past when we had a thread about Sheekh Cukaashe and Sheekh umal discussion. It is not islamic courts per se or one clan dominating the courts that all these Qanyare idolizing is rooted on. Every tribe has men who stood aside to address important issues and they all come under one umbrella. That is why they are called courts and not a court. The future belongs to them and people love them for their service.

 

If Qanyare is a saviour, we will see what these SOL members have to say in the coming future.

 

MMA.

 

Waa kabaxay sheeko raqiisay kaa tahay. Adiga lee ma rabinoo inaa ka dhigtid in qanyare dagaal loola galay qabiil dartii in kastoo asaga uu dagaal ku dhawaaqay oo dadka muqdisho u keenay dhimasho horleh? Munaafaqnimada waa laga fiican yahay.

[Xarago]

As far as my knowledge is concerned the establishment of Islamic Courts should be preceded by the introduction of Islam itself as trhe way of life, the teaching of its tenets and basic knowledge. The establishmend of a society where you first introduce to it its benefits before you govern them on its teachings. Islamic Court or for this matter cannot just pop-up like a new found political ideology. Islam in pronciple is decreed by Allah SWT and he did so inorder for his Umah to follo it and treat each other justifyingly. For the Islamic courts in Xamar to warrant this they have to first take the smaller steps. Now we know they have a court, do they have the ability or have they had the ability to furnish with the society all the other requirements such as the needs of the social welfare of the umah. Big NO. For me Qanyare is a looter and those that are fighting against him now are not per se Islamic Courts but those who use the Sharia Law according to their needs.

Anyone in SOL who comes saying that Shekh Hassan Dahir and his co. are defenders of the word of Allah SWT have an issue they are defending which is anything else but Islam. The victims in the recent skirmishes between the alliance of counter terrorism and Islamic courts are as usually the innocent defenceless and weak people.

Counter-terrorism they say, and is led by Qanyare,Muse Sudi, Bashir Rage,etc. Someone needs to asdk then who are terrorist if not them?

[Che -Guevara]

People....Soomaali Wadaad Malaha....Been Maa La Isku Sheegaa...Everybody answers to some Qabiil..These are trigger happy fools willing to slaughther the innocent in the name of what exactly? :mad: :mad:

 

This is what happens when a city is swarmed by a people who don't understand and appreciate its history and are just too ill-equiped to run a city like Xamar.

[Alle-ubaahne]

MMA, my formal friend in SOL was indeed sidelined with his anti-Wadaado ideologies. Thanks to the decisive subject at hand. You are not alone, Miskiin, there are many people who object the progress of our culimaa, and that is not our problem, its their/you problem.

[SOO MAAL]

The notorious Mogadishu warlords are inhuman individuals, for 15 years were killing and looting the Mogadishu people, making Somalia’s capital a world’s nightmare.

If warlords like Qanyare or Suudi overpowered their power will be only good news.

 

For so-called sheikhs, first it makes more sense and logic to start with Da’wah and educating Somali masses then to star with courts and jihad.

 

If look the story of our beloved Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) he first made a Da’wah – a call to Islam to kufaar of quraysh, he never started with courts and fought only those who attack him only in his base Madina.

[Xoogsade]

Xarago, Very impressive, I thought Your only knowledge was about loving to hate Duke for his uncle's unwavering support

[Xargaga]

Anyone in SOL who comes saying that Shekh Hassan Dahir and his co. are defenders of the word of Allah SWT have an issue they are defending which is anything else but Islam.

Thats your opinion isnt it Xarago? or is it a fact? All in all mr xarago In what category would you put Sheikh Cali Warsame of burco and mark you Dahir Uweiys And cali warsame waa xidiid aa igu maqaala ah. From my perspective this is just the begining you never know may be tomorrow itll be bosaaso or burco or even hargeysa you never know.

[Xarago]

Originally posted by Xoogsade:

Xarago, Very impressive, I thought Your only knowledge was about loving to hate Duke for his uncle's unwavering support

Indeed, but this time walalo it is you and your uncles who are creating the mess and are in the limelight. Read this article and ponder before you respond with accusations such as it is an American evil plan to fight against Islam. And please bear in mind that in your hood over the last couple of years have seen the killing of well known moderate Somalis be it politicians, intellectuals, or even former high ranking officers of the Somali armed forces. Likewise on parallel contrary missons we have seen the assasinations and abductions of prominent Sheikhs. And Xoogasade walalo feel free to accuse Duke's uncle and point out his finger prints which are all over the place.. .But be fair and be frank about the direct involvement of Sheikh Hassan Dahir Aweys and his underlying intentions.

 

Somali Violence Spotlights Fundamentalists

 

By RODRIQUE NGOWI

Associated Press Writer

 

February 23, 2006, 10:59 PM EST

 

 

NAIROBI, Kenya -- A recent upsurge in violence in Somalia's capital has focused attention anew on the rise of Islamic fundamentalism in the chaotic Horn of Africa state. The violence had killed at least 22 people and wounded more than 140 since Saturday.

 

Sheik Hassan Dahir Aweys, said by the United States to be linked to al-Qaida, is prominent among the fundamentalists increasingly projecting themselves as an alternative to the numerous armed groups running the clan-based fiefdoms that comprise Somalia.

 

Somalia has been without an effective central government since 1991, when warlords overthrew the government and then began fighting each other.

 

Wednesday, Aweys pledged to keep fighting a new alliance arrayed against him in Mogadishu, the Somali capital. Mogadishu was calm Thursday as elders sought to mediate.

 

Aweys described his rivals as "forces of evil" supported by Western powers.

 

His rivals, meanwhile, describe the fundamentalists as terrorists, accusing them of killing moderate intellectuals, Muslim scholars and former military officials in a string of unexplained murders. Islamic militias have set up their own courts in some parts of Mogadishu, where they shut down bars and destroy shops that reproduce or sell pirated DVDs and music cassettes.

 

Counterterrorism experts in the U.S. and elsewhere have long worried that al-Qaida could find a haven in Somalia, taking advantage of its instability and perhaps finding hosts among men like Aweys.

 

The United States linked Aweys, who has vowed to establish an Islamic state, to al-Qaida shortly after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Aweys has said such allegations were invented by his enemies.

 

Last year, U.N. experts monitoring an arms embargo on Somalia reported that Islamic hard-liners were importing heavy weapons and establishing military training camps. Among them were members of Al-Ittihad al-Islami, which wants to impose Islamic law in Somalia and allegedly has ties to al-Qaida.

 

Also last year, the International Crisis Group reported the emergence of a Mogadishu extremist cell led by a young Somali militant trained in Afghanistan, where al-Qaida was once based.

 

The International Crisis Group, a private think tank which tracks conflicts around the world, noted that al-Qaida contributed to attacks on U.S. and U.N. peacekeepers in Somalia in the early 1990s and used the country as a transit zone for attacks in neighboring Kenya and later as a hiding place for some of its leading members.

 

Saturday, a coalition of warlords and businessman announced they were taking a stand against the fundamentalists. They said in a statement they would "eradicate the extremists, terrorists and their supporters so as to pave the way for a peaceful country for the Somali children."

 

The emergence of the coalition is evidence the warlords see the fundamentalist as a serious threat. With stakes high on both sides, it could signal the start of a significant deterioration in security in an already lawless land.

 

Source

 

 

Nabadshe, my point was the so called Sheikhs cannot impose the ruling of the Sharia untill they establish the ground work for its introduction. Am sure you will agrre with me in no wheree in Somalia and Somaliland is there the existance of a place where the Islamic way of life is practiced. And I stand by my view.