Women Serving as Witnesses in Islam

[Khayr]

Salamz,

 

I saw the below quote in an article on the net today while I was browsing....

 

Women Serving as Witnesses

There has been much discussion on the issue of women serving as witnesses, as prescribed in the Qur'an. When addressing the assumption of financial debt, two witnesses are required - either two men or a man and two women (2:282). It is important to note that both of the women do not serve as witnesses. One woman serves as the witness and the second woman acts as a collaborator. The reasons for requiring two females to witness the financial contract are threefold:

a At the time of the revelation of the Qur'an 1,400 years ago, women were not as knowledgeable in business affairs as men. Scholars have interpreted these verses and confirm that if women are equally knowledgeable, which is often the case today, then their evidence is equal to that of men (Rahman, major themes in the Qur'an - Chicago and Minneapolis 1982, page 49).

b Women could be more easily coerced at that time and this safeguard provided protection to women serving as witnesses.

c The need for two witnesses applies only to certain types of financial contracts. It is not meant to apply as a general rule.

 

Do you agree with this quote?

 

Is this sufficient explanation or a cop out?

 

What are the views of various Islamic Schools of thoughts on this?

 

Fi Amanillah

[Yonis]

These quotes seem fine and logic, even thou; our religion is not an opinion. However, if we say at the time of this verse was revealed women were not that educated and knew nothing about business affairs, how about Khadija, Bintu-alkhuwela, who was a rich and well-known business woman and lived at that time? How those interpretations should be applied and connected into this matter?

[Khayr]

Salaaaamz

Originally posted by Rashiid:

These quotes seem fine and logic, even thou; our religion is not an opinion. However, if we say at the time of this verse was revealed women were not that educated and knew nothing about business affairs, how about Khadija, Bintu-alkhuwela, who was a rich and well-known business woman and lived at that time? How those interpretations should be applied and connected into this matter?

Don't you think that if you suddenly 'reinterpret'

 

ayats of the quran with a '21st century' tasfir,

 

then aren't saying that....Allah and his rasul

 

(salallahu caliyhe waslim) made a MISTAKE :eek:

 

At the time of the revelation of the Qur'an 1,400 years ago, women were not as knowledgeable in business affairs as men. Scholars have interpreted these verses and confirm that if women are equally knowledgeable,

What pre-20th century scholars made these statements???

 

Were the Jamhuur al Ulama (1400yrs worth of Ulama/Scholars of islam) of this opinion too? :confused:

 

Fi Amanillah

[Yonis]

Originally posted by Khayr:

At the time of the revelation of the Qur'an 1,400 years ago, women were not as knowledgeable in business affairs as men. Scholars have interpreted these verses and confirm that if women are equally knowledgeable, which is often the case today, then their evidence is equal to that of men

The Islamic religion should fit and be practiced in any century whether it is 7th century or 21st century. if we interpret the above quote, there is another thing need to be considered... So, if we say, a woman and man are equal for being a witness because these days women are as intelligent as men then, what I am asking myself or everybody should ask himself is ---Allah did not know there would be some women who are knowledgeable about business affairs?? We can also ask, does this verse need to be reinterpreted or re-considered?

 

Well, I think the verse did not say there MUST be two women. The only reason I am saying this is, if you keep reading the verse, you will see, the only reason that two women are needed is (if) one forgets the other one will remind her, this could be because of the importance of the debt and anything that related to this matter . However, I am not a scholar, if you share with us what the Jamhur-al-ulima says about this matter or you have anything different than what they say, bring it on.

[Khayr]

Salaamz,

 

Maybe some of the nomads in here who have some tafasiir collections i.e. Tabari, Suyuti,Qurtabi,ibn Kathir etc. can translate the tafasiirs of the Ulama on this point 'Women Witnessess'

 

What is the view of the 4 Sunni Imams? Ahl-Shia?

 

Please do share because I haven't collected anything Comphrensive to state what is 'Jamhuur Al-Ulama's view on this topic.

 

Fi Amanillah

[Proud_Muslimah2]

Assalamu Alaikum,

 

Allah (SWT) says..."It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path." [al-Ahzaab:36]

 

and the Qur'an, the ayah (2:282) says, "...get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her..."

 

--> The passage of the Qur'aan (Baqarah 2:282) in which the above-mentioned requirement is made has usury, capital and debtor difficulties as its theme. Allaah grants guidelines in matters relating to monetary obligations. Then business transactions are dealt with. In this section, the requirement to commit all transactions into writing is stated most emphatically (Reduce them to writing...). The section after this describes the responsibility of the scribe, or in modern parlance, the person responsible for drawing up the agreement. The following section describes the responsibility and the obligation of the person incurring the liability. The section after this explains how if the party that is liable cannot effectively draw up the contract - out of being deficient or weak mentally, or being unable to dictate - then his or her guardian should help draw out the contract and choose two suitable witnesses to observe. It must be understood that this situation arises if it is not possible for the liable party to draw out the contract by him/herself. The condition to put things into writing is still supreme. The next section then explains that two men should be called to witness and if two men are not available (And if there are not two men...) then a man and two women. The legislation then continues and reminds most emphatically that one should not be complacent about putting ALL agreements into writing - no matter whether these agreements are major or minor as this is more JUST in the sight of Allaah and more reliable as evidence. The passage of the Qur'aan further explains that for practical reasons it may not always be possible to commit on-the-spot agreements into writing. In this case, it is also recommended that it be witnessed. The section which follows then lays down the guidelines which should be followed in the event that no witnesses are present <--- {Gotten from an article written by Shamshad.M.Khan}

 

Allah, the Creator, with His infinite wisdom gave the directives best suited to humankind. He is the Creator, therefore, He knows man better than a man himself.

 

As women, we are aware of the cyclical psychological strains that a woman has to encounter every month. The symptoms during early pregnancy, ante-natal and post-natal depressions, the phenomenon of menopause, the physiological and psychological problems due to infertility and last but not least the psychological problems faced after miscarriage.

[Proud_Muslimah2]

It is under these situations that women can experience extraordinary psychological strains giving rise to depression, lack of concentration, slow-mindedness and SHORT TERM MEMORY LOSS!!!!

 

Now lets examine these in more details with medical references from the scientific world!

 

--> Psychiatry in Practice, April 1983 issue states:

 

"Forty percent of women suffer from pre-menstrual syndrome in some form and one in every of our women have their lives severely disrupted by it. Dr Jill Williams, general practitioner from Bury, gives guidelines on how to recognise patients at risk and suggests a suitable treatment." [1] <--

 

In the same issue, George Beaumont reporting on the workshop held at the Royal College of Obstreticians and Gynaecologists in London on pre-menstrual syndrome, says:

 

--> "Some authorities would argue that 80 percent of women have some degree of breast and abdominal discomfort which is pre-menstrual but that only about 10 percent complain to their doctors - and then only because of severe tenderness of the breasts and mental depression... Other authorities have suggested that pre-menstrual syndrome is a new problem, regular ovulation for 20 years or more being a phenomenon caused by 'civilisation', 'medical progress', and an altered concept of the role of women."[2 ] <--

 

In its examination of the occurrence of physical and psychological change during the period just prior to the onset of menstruation we read in Psychological Medicine:

 

--> "Many studies have reported an increased likelihood of various negative affects during the pre-menstrual period. In this affective category are many emotional designations including irritability, depression, tension, anxiety, sadness, insecurity, lethargy, loneliness, tearfulness, fatigue, restlessness and changes of mood. In the majority of studies, investigators have found it difficult to distinguish between various negative affects, and only a few have allowed themselves to be excessively concerned with the differences which might or might not exist between affective symptoms."[3 ] <--

 

In the same article dealing with Pre-menstrual Behavioural Changes we read:

 

--> "A significant relationship between the pre-menstrual phase of the cycle and a variety of specific and defined forms of behaviour has been reported in a number of studies. For the purpose of their review, these forms of behaviour have been grouped under the headings of aggressive behaviour, illness behaviour and accidents, performance on examination and other tests and sporting performance."[4 ] <--

 

--> The lengthy review portrays how female behaviour is affected in these situations. In 'The Pre-menstrual Syndrome', C. Shreeves writes: <--

[Proud_Muslimah2]

--> "Reduced powers of concentration and memory are familiar aspects of the pre-menstrual syndrome and can only be remedied by treating the underlying complaint."

 

This does not mean, of course, that women are mentally deficient absolutely. It just means that their mental faculties can become affected at certain times in the biological cycle <--

 

Shreeves also writes:

 

--> "As many as 80 percent of women are aware of some degree of pre-menstrual changes, 40 percent are substantially disturbed by them, and between 10 and 20 percent are seriously disabled as a result of the syndrome."

 

Furthermore, women face the problem of ante-natal and post-natal depression, both of which cause extreme cycles of depression in some cases. Again, these recurring symptoms naturally affect the mind, giving rise to drowsiness and dopey memory <--

 

On the subject of pregnancy in Psychiatry in Practice, October-November 1986, we learn that:

 

--> "In an experiment 'Cox' found that 16 percent of a sample of 263 pregnant women were suffering from clinically significant psychiatric problems. Eight percent had a depressive neurosis and 1.9 percent had phobic neurosis. This study showed that the proportion of pregnant women with psychiatric problems was greater than that found in the control group but the difference only tended towards significance."[5 ] <--

 

Regarding the symptoms during the post-natal cycle Dr. Ruth Sagovsky writes:

 

--> "The third category of puerperal psychiatric problems is post-natal depression. It is generally agreed that between10 to 15 percent of women become clinically depressed after childbirth. These mothers experience a variety of symptoms but anxiety, especially over the baby, irritability, and excessive fatigue are common. Appetite is usually decreased and often there are considerable sleep difficulties. The mothers lose interest in the things they enjoyed prior to the baby's birth, and find that their concentration is impaired. They often feel irrational guilt, and blame themselves for being 'bad' wives and mothers. Fifty percent of these women are not identified as having a depressive illness. Unfortunately, many of them do not understand what ails them and blame their husbands, their babies or themselves until the relationships are strained to an alarming degree."[6 ]

 

"... Making the diagnosis of post-natal depression is not always easy. Quite often the depression is beginning to become a serious problem around three months postpartum when frequent contact with the health visitor is diminishing. The mother may not present with depressed mood. If she comes to the health centre presenting the baby as the patient, the true nature of the problem can be missed. When the mother is continually anxious about the baby in spite of reassurance, then the primary health care worker needs to be aware of the possibility of depression. Sometimes these mothers present with marital difficulties, and it is easy to muddle cause and effect, viewing the accompanying low mood as part of the marital problem. Sometimes, only when the husband is seen as well does it become obvious that it is a post-natal depressive illness which has led to the deterioration in the marriage."[7 ] <--

[Proud_Muslimah2]

Also, the fact that women are known to be more sensitive and emotional than men must not be overlooked. It is well known, for example, that under identical circumstances women suffer much greater anxiety than men.

 

Allah (SWT) has even given us an explanation to why two women as witnesses and hasn't left us in the dark. He says two women because "if one of them errs, the other can remind her." This is taking our unique emotional state and physical difference into consideration!

 

It has nothing to do with how women were uneducated or not as knowledgeable as men during the Prophet (saw) life but rather the physical differences as can be seen in the above article.

 

And Allah (SWT) knows best.

 

 

PS: Sorry for making different posts...my reply is a bit too long and it wasn't letting me post it as one

 

Salam

[Khayr]

Salamz,

 

JazakaAllahKhayurn ya ukhti!

 

I have a link to a tafsirs on this verse

 

is some nomads could translate them and post them on here, I would appreciate them.

I can't seem to cut and past them.

 

Imam Shuwkani's Tafsir

 

a Jafari Tafsir

 

Imam Zamakhashri

 

Ibn Jawazyi's Tasfir

 

Nomads,

 

Your help in translating them and posting them in here would be greatly appreciated.

 

Fi Amanillah

 

P.S. Just search for them on that website or any of the other famous tasfirs and inshallah post them in here.

[Khayr]

Salamz

 

Originally posted by *Proud_Muslimah*:

Also, the fact that women are known to be more sensitive and emotional than men must not be overlooked. It is well known, for example, that under identical circumstances women suffer much greater anxiety than men.

 

Allah (SWT) has even given us an explanation to why two women as witnesses and hasn't left us in the dark. He says two women because "if one of them errs, the other can remind her." This is taking our unique emotional state and physical difference into consideration!

 

It has nothing to do with how women were uneducated or not as knowledgeable as men during the Prophet (saw) life but rather the physical differences as can be seen in the above article.

 

And Allah (SWT) knows best.

 

[Valenteenah.]

Sigh