Ulema rulling on collaborators (read at your own discretion)

[Emperor]

Xiinow, It is the way you put the words

Eritrea is just a staging area for the Arab and Muslim world and for those who want to help the Somali resistance.

Maya Awowe I disagree, I have yet to see a single Arab or Muslim government in support of the resistance or being against the TFG. Lets not delude us from this fact, it’s only Eriteria and Afawerki in particular who’s interested in this warfare, arming and reaming any anti-TFG groups to create tention in Somalia, and for what may be to only annoy Ethiopia. Note down these facts:

 

1. AFewerki is another warmonger Christian similar to Zenawi who we all know how muslims are treated in his country

2. The fact remains that he only wants to avenge against the Ethiopians and not interested in seeing a stronger Independent Somalia that’s a Muslim and ruled by Islam.

3. The warzone is Somali’s capital Mogadishu and no where near Asmara, neither are his men involved in this loss of wealth and life, he is careless of the Somali causality from both sides and their indifference or conflict is an interest to him so long he can hear or see Ethiopian soldier killed in this battles… but many poor Somalis will die in the process.

4. Ethiopian Army is allied to a Somali government that’s recognized by all standards of the world.

 

 

What makes one more correct than the other? If what one makes morally acceptable is his greater cause and noble goal than the route taken to achieve that, as you seem to believe, this noble cause is to liberate Somalia from the occupation thus I may agree with you just for a moment, the route to Eriteria could be acceptable in this case…

 

Now having said that my question comes here, the resistance group says that the presence of Ethiopia is illegal, an outright violation of territorial integrity an occupation etc. and must liberate the country from them… A claim nevertheless how do we know this is a genuine concern, and that these people are only against the presence of Ethio…

 

The government on the other hand says this resistance group is a small selfish group whose only interest is to see no functionining government in Somalia, invited Ethiopia to help them route out the trouble makers and that their main goal is to bring back order and stability to the region, a peaceful Somalia – This is only a claim nevertheless, how do we know this is a genuine claim? and that they are not after one clan or are not Ethiopian puppets.

 

Every one is presenting a noble agenda for Somalia future while accusing the other of misbehavior, why are you not appreciating the case the TFG and their route taken to achieve it. What is the difference in believing one’s words and disregarding the other?

 

It is possible that the TFG could be better for the country than these groups, what is the worst thing that would happen if the resistance disarmed and joined the TFG ranks or may be lost and surrendered.

[Thierry.]

If the most knowledge and good fearing of us have agreed upon that this is a legitimate resistance then who are we to question it especially when so many of them agree upon the issue.

 

Ps I remember a certain no made had a quote in the lines “certainly the Ulema in our society are furthest away from the tribal issue”

 

It cannot get more black and white, now either you support the sovereignty of Somalia there by supporting the popular resistance or you support those who have collaborated with a foreign enemy

[Paragon]

Xiinow: Waa iga: Digniin na la ma siin Allow, gumacna diir saaqye yeynan ku ooyin maalin aanan maanta ahayn.

[Paragon]

Emperor, do you want to know the simple differentiating critrea between Ethiopian and Eritrean support? The answer this straightforward question: Whose troops and hardware are in Mogadishu right now as we speak?

 

A- Ethiopia; or

B-Eritrea?

[Caano Geel]

lordh.. this is too long -- someone gimme a summary please,

[Emperor]

Paragon to answer your question:

 

Ethiopia, but as an invading force or a legimate goverments allies is a matter to be discussed.

[Caano Geel]

Originally posted by Paragon:

Emperor, do you want to know the simple differentiating critrea between Ethiopian and Eritrean support? The answer this straightforward question:

Whose troops and hardware are in Mogadishu right now as we speak?

 

A- Ethiopia; or

B-Eritrea?

wallaal, its simple, rational incentives say that your enemy's enemies are your friends. Sadly its not difficult to find rational incentives - [the KFC want power], its difficult to justify them - [KFC deserve power]

[Fabregas]

@Emperor, According to secular international law, the United Nations deems the Ethiopian occupation illegal. Because several resolutions have called on them on all foreign forces to withdraw. Furthermore, the Somali parliament has never authorised any Ethiopian soldiers in Somalia nor has the Somali people. I remember last time Somali Parliamentarians came to blows over this issue. The United Nations allows people to raise militias to defend themselves against agressive occupiers. In this case this is what Somali groups are doing.

 

According to Islamic law, this is a war against the Muslims people because they have established the Shariah.Moreover, Ethiopia poses a potent threat to our: Ulema, Woman and livelihoods. They have also declared war against the Islamic Courts union, which their own parliament has authorized. In other words they have violated the borders of a Muslims territory. The Islamic ruling against this couldn't be any clear. We all know what this ruling is and know the Somali Ulema have clarified this for the people. Cocentrating on little grey areas here and there will only make you believe your political prejudices. Our religion doesn't allow; occupation, invasion, kidnapping of Ulema and raping of Muslim women. Anyone who takes part or collaborates in these actions is an enemy of Islam. It is better for them to repent to their creator and make amends. Otherwise they will meet the same fate as their allies, which will be an ultimate disaster for the Ethiopian army inflicted on them by the Somali people. Inshallahu, you will see this with your own eyes......

[xiinfaniin]

Emperor,

 

I have no fear of Eritrea to aggress against us. It neither has the capacity nor the motive to initiate a conflict with us. I am sure that you hold view.

 

Now as you said the tfg says that they want to stabilize the country and that they are using Ethiopia to do so. I don’t doubt that, as that’s what they wish and desire but not know how. Also Ethiopia says that they are there to fight the Muslim extremists whom it deems threat to its regional interest. Again I don’t doubt that, as I believe that’s truly why they are there. There is nothing to be confused there adeer as far as the big picture goes. The complexity lies the fact that Ethiopia is financed to role back the gains of the Islamic sahwah and in under the name of peace and stability, they are indeed inflicting great damage on the political structure of those who have Islamic orientation. After the mass arrests in Kenya and in Somalia during the initial phase of this war, many people understood their game and acted against it. The fact the tfg refused to talk to the Islamic Courts when their defeat was fresh and they were militarily weak deepened this conflict and complicated our strife. It’s not difficult to see this entity for what it’s: a foreign tool. The evidence is out there for you to see. That fact that its army is foreign does not help them. The fact their reconciliation policy is just a badly erected façade does not help them either. The fact that Ethiopian tanks are bombarding the city as we speak does little for them to conceal who they are. They are thusly reduced to another function that prolongs Somalia’s long conflict. Simple. The only way out is reconciliation. Tfg is not buying it as they think they are stronger with the presence of Ethiopian tanks. I am sure though after couple of hard fights they will be convinced to partake in a reconciliation that’s hosted by a third party, and not them, and with the very fighters whom they deny their existence today. That’s the history of fools.

 

 

Now the insurgency has no plan except to drive Ethiopians out! I don’t blame them for not having a one. After all they had one and the world come together, not to build Somalia, but to defeat Islamic Courts and by default return Somalia, at least the southern portion of it, to its previous status quo, and as soon as the we return to chaos and anarchy the world walked away and we are left with our own devices. That is the hand current insurgent groups are dealt with. They did a good job of solving many chronic problems in the capital and foreign armies under the pretext of terrorism kicked them out, armies mind you that never lifted a finger to care Somalia and its well being for the last sixteen years. As long Ethiopia is stationed on our soil and tfg is in its current form and clings to its present alliances, I am prepared to support these fighters. My expectations are very low adeer. But the task before them is much simpler than the one they had before. To destroy is easier then to build. Their task is to destroy Ethiopia’s occupation…

 

I think we shouldn’t waste our time debating about Eritrea. Like wise one should not labor to explain the fact that Arab and Islamic world don’t necessarily mean only official governments, and you don’t gouge the support Somali fighters get from the the governments say publicly.

[Emperor]

Geeljire Sxb on your first paragraph, Im sorry to say that I disagree with you on that. Using International community or Somali parlimanterian, I believe Im in a strong position, bearing in mind the few suspecs terrorist individuals or cells in Somalia... LOL But Im not interested in this part of the depate so moving on...

 

Your second paragragh is what I most certainly interested in and somwhat deals at the topic in hand. You present few intresting points but we have to agree on fudamental things before we can move on to the next level of the discussion: There are always means and ends to every struggle, either be the TFG or resistance groups.

 

Is achieving the ends more important than the means? Or the means more important than the ends?

 

Is the government trying to achieve the right ends through the wrong means or the other groups is trying to achieve the right ends through the wrong means.

 

What makes either of them more right than the other? Now be gentle and honest... like me

 

I have asked this question before... may be indifferent form... If you so wish read my earlier post

[Emperor]

Xiinow I agree a peaceful solution is the only way forward...

 

Again what make decisions and can represent people are governments or authorities, not the poeple on the streets. Furthermore, Im not trying to west time about Eriteria's involvement in Somalia, it's real and only stressing this point to bring out the double standards some of us have become...

 

Sheekadi waad nala dheerasyid badda kalena waad galisay oo ka meermeertay pointiyo qaarkood aan soo qoray...

 

Laakiin Ummada Ilaahay ha u sahlo, dhibkana kaha yareeyo... Labadeenuba wanaag doon baa nahay;)

[xiinfaniin]

^^Dawladi ma jirtee Allaha dawlad keeno adeer.

Aamiin to that and to yours as well...

[Fabregas]

When the Warlords were sent to curb the Islamic movement in Somalia. The Muslims, in the first fight were only armed with a few technicals. Had they lost they probably would have been sent to the C.I.A prisons. However, due to the help of Allah swt many technicals and other hardware were captured from them.In the end they fled from Somalia humilated by Allah swt, to run to their masters. It became apparent that other foreign hand were trying to keep Somalia in anarchy and stop the spread of any Islamic orientated movement. After this, Ethiopia was sent in to curb the Islamic movement in Somalia. The young Shababs humilated the Ethiopians for several days and were very close to gaining an ultimatum victory. However, mysterious tanks started to bomb them and that was that. History shows a certain Islamic movement was uprooted in the early 90s with the Help of Ethiopia and a certain Somali Warlord. I believe that the Somali movement today does and will encompass a range of people from diverse backgrounds. They come from different clans and are united as Somalis and Muslims, including those who are not particularly islamically orientated. But still are Muslims and feel pride and honour in serving their people.

 

Walalayaal ducada ha la qabto Musliminta in uu Ilahay siyo Guusha sida marki hore, inshallahu! Nabi Muhammad salalahu calayhi wasalam iyo Asxaabtisi, international community ma tageerin dowlada kalana ma cawin. Quwadihi aduunko dhan ba kaso horjeeday; sidi Persia, Roma iyo Quraishti.....Mantana dadka, Somaliya, lacagta la gusoo dulay bixinaya oo walina qorsheyey waa isla dadki, barigii Medina, Awz Khazraj isku diri Jiray. Marki Awz iyo Khazraj ay noqdeen walalo, wa kuwi cadhoday oo Nabiga Ilahay ku kacay. Mantana iyaga Muslim ka ku kacsaan oo meel walba ku dhibaateynaya. Waayo iyaga ka fa'ideysanjiray kala qaybsananta Awz iyo Khazraj. Awz iyo Khazraj wa kuwi sunnah Ilahay iyo Nabiga qatay oo aduunko dhan Islam ku fidiyey, gacan iyo dacwaba. Somalidna maanta hadi ay qadato Sunnah oo ay midowdo waxay noqonaysa quwadi IslamKA Afrika. Marka hore lakin taa waxa ka horeysa imtixaan Ilahay sidi uu ulaso baxo kuwa Musliminta Dhabta ah. Dad Badan baa marki ay arkeen tankiyasha iyo diyaradaha Ethiopianka, cararay, isudhiibey ama hada lashaqeynaya. Lakin, Ilahay baa ka Quwad weyn. Waa kii Xabashigi la odhan jiray Abraha Ilahay uu qasaaro ku riday marki uu ku soo duley Kabcada Ilahey. Nabiga awowgi ma uu haysan wax huba iyo cawimo ah, lakin wuxu aminsana in uu Ilahay baidkisa ilashanayo. Wa kii uu layabay Abraha, ninka lagu soo dulay oo ka sheekeynaya geel iyo waxyaba kale. Persianski wa kuwi kibray oo ilahay uu cebeyeey marki uu ku soo diray Geeljiraha Arabta oo Islam ku midowdey. Sovietkisi wa kuwi aduunka ku kibray , Ilahanya waa kii ku so diray dad maskiin ah( Afghans) oo ceebeyey. Mantana Somalida waxay la simantahay Afghanistan( barigi Russia), dad maskiin ah baa la xasuqay oo dhulkoodi lagu qabsaday. Ilahayna waxaan ka barayna in uu Ilahay kuwa Somalia iyo Musliminta ku kibray in uu guldaro ku rido, amiin!

[Fabregas]

Originally posted by Emperor:

Geeljire Sxb on your first paragraph, Im sorry to say that I disagree with you on that. Using International community or Somali parlimanterian, I believe Im in a strong position, bearing in mind the few suspecs terrorist individuals or cells in Somalia... LOL But Im not interested in this part of the depate so moving on...

 

Your second paragragh is what I most certainly interested in and somwhat deals at the topic in hand. You present few intresting points but we have to agree on fudamental things before we can move on to the next level of the discussion: There are always means and ends to every struggle, either be the TFG or resistance groups.

 

Is achieving the ends more important than the means? Or the means more important than the ends?

 

Is the government trying to achieve the right ends through the wrong means or the other groups is trying to achieve the right ends through the wrong means.

 

What makes either of them more right than the other? Now be gentle and honest... like me

 

I have asked this question before... may be indifferent form... If you so wish read my earlier post

Saxib, I didn't see your reply, inshallah, i will answer it some time soon!

[Emperor]

Originally posted by Xiin:

Dawladi ma jirtee Allaha dawlad keeno adeer.

TFG-da ayaad adna kuwareersatay Sxb LOL

 

When I said governments make decision and represent people, I was refering to you comment about the support of Arab/Muslim governments or officials were unneccessary but their people and streets... TFG-da waa lasocdaa inaadan ogolayn