Self Determination for Somalia Regions--Yes or No Poll

[BN]

Hello,

 

I just wanted to start a discussion on self determination for Somali regions--or clans as the case might be. I was thinking to myself if a Somali clan doesn't want to be part of Somalia--can we force them? For example--let's use the North West clan. For arguments sake let's say the majority wants to seperate--is it the right of the rest of Somalia to say NO? Who's choice is it.

 

Personally I think that we shouldn't. If a referendum were held by an agreed third party; and the overwhelming choice of the people was to seperate and form their own state. I would support them. Would the rest of the Nomads on SOL?

 

But the question is if a SUBCLAN of the NW clan then wants it's own independence--don't they too have the right to self determination? Will they be given that choice now as well? And we can imagine how far this can go--very soon we might see dozens of Somali states.

 

Jump right in! But please give reason(s) WHY!

[BN]

It seems the YES Vote is winning but you guys need to be giving reasons!!! The whole point was to see where every nomad stood on this issue. Not annonymous voting...don't be lazy!!!

 

Where are those patriotic NorthWesterners? :confused:

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Salaan...

 

The answer is, macalinka, no. As a matter of fact, I do have some other objective concrete feelings to solve Soomaali qabyaalad situation for once, at least.

 

Resettle every clan from its 'traditional' base and move it to where it becomes an alien identity. Force inter-marriage from every known clan in Soomaaliya to one another; share each land equally to every clan; do not allow one clan to dominate one land. All lands belong Soomaalis. This idea of 'my' qabiil owns or settles this land is out in this modern age, where we are witnessing people moving freely to almost every country.

 

Just imagine a society living together harmonally by all of those nooh-speaking living in Seylac, wah-speaking living in Boosaaso, dee-speaking living in Baydhabo, aga-speaking living in Jowhar, heedhe-speaking living in Marka, aree-speaking living in Hargeysa All living together in serenely in one town, each understanding each one's respective dialect. What a Utopia Soomaali society would that have been. And I gotta tell you, it could have been at least so interesting, at least from the perspective of comedy.

 

And finally, make a minority person to lead our country.

 

I know that my dream is a bit far-fetched and fanciful, however, in reality, that is one of the ultimate solutions to Soomaali predicament and quandary.

 

Agree??

________________

 

Macsalaama.

[miles-militis]

Dear Bari_Nomad - Self-determination for regions or states, as is the case, in my opinion is the sole way forward. But before I put my reasoning forth, allow me to share an observation of own with regards to the plight of the Somalis.

 

Most seem so obsessively if you will of the ideal - the untenable mind you- that is of a peaceful Somalia with Somalis in harmonious accord, as is inherent in the discussions of utopian like Somalia. Many speak of the ills and the tumultuous fate of the Somalis whilst others prescribe inapt resolutions from afar displaying a total lack of understanding of the relatively unique problem debilitating the region, yet very few came to terms with the Somali dilemma for what it is – has its roots in clan politics. It is as matters stand at the moment a taboo amongst Somalis for clan politics, and NOT clan bashing (as the two seem inseparable in the minds of the debating members) lest labelled or shunned in social engagements. And in my opinion until the issue has been addressed for what it is, the nucleus of the Somali predicament, it would be near impossible to bring about a befitting resolution satisfactory to all. Case in point is the northern regions (Somaliland and Puntland) both of which had embraced clan politics warts and all. Perfect NOT, but admirably successful in practice and desirably progressive in principal.

 

Having stated that, regional autonomy is not only an option for the present day Somalia, but it is the natural course that had not only pre-emptied all other options and is being adopted not only in the northern regions but also in RRA Riviera, Lower Shabeele and Hiran, and many more in natural pursuit. As in all cases, some regions shall definitely challenge that course and shall become the exception, thus the principal imperfection of options of all sorts.

 

I shall leave it there for now,

Cheers.

[BN]

It seems the voting is tied 50/50.

 

MMA,

That's a nice vision But you didn't give reasons for your 'no' answer. Please re-read the entire article before replying...no need to rush

 

SW,

Very well laid out response. You support regional autonomy--the current reality--but would you support regional seperation(independence)? Is that what you meant by:

 

Originally posted by Samurai Worrior:

As in all cases, some regions shall definitely challenge that course and shall become the exception, thus the principal imperfection of options of all sorts.

[Coloow]

Bari Geeljire, saaxib,

 

I have to agree with Samurai warrior on this one.

 

Self determination is a prerequisite to achieving democracy in somalia which has been eluding us for decades.

 

I am for giving every town, region, village etc the right to determine their future. Perhaps that would contribute to the healing process that we really need.

 

I think we should not be obsessed with boundaries and geography. Instead, we should focus on the people i.e somalis. somalis have and would always have a common bond that is not fragile as borders!

 

Borders come and go and thus dynamic but somalis would remain on this earth. In the eyes of the world and how we percieve ourselves, we shall remain somalis- and a geographical division matters less.

 

Marka suaashaada jawaabteeda waa HAA sxb

[General Duke]

Entre,

Well said bro, its all about giving the people power in order to overcome this silly division.

 

So its yes to self determination of the Somali states, but no to total independence, we depend on each other way too much.

[miles-militis]

Dear Bari_Nomad – I thank you for the sharp and shrewd observation. As much as I aspire to the formation of a confederate states of Somalia, binding intimately all lands inhabited by Somalis, the actuality of the present is the existence of regions which aspire to formulate a separate entity with neither legal nor institutional ties, but perhaps economic and societal for the natural benefits, with the rest as is the case for the 3 regions that make up present day Somaliland. If it is the will and desire of the populace in the said regions or any other, like the case might be for Puntland should the current peace process in Kenya is to fail, I would consider such a break-off as a provisional resolution.

 

My concerns, pragmatic rather than quixotic, are not as to why, but how? Viability and sustainability are core to that rationale. Whilst I hardly consider the collective unison voices advocating for all Somali territories as being sacred for no such thing does exist unless written somewhere in the old book (furqan), I am a duly proponent of a federal states for the synergic benefits of federal concord far outweigh separate entities with limited intrinsic resources if any. Case in point is Djibouti. Somalia played a major role in its independence, upon attaining that their wishes to go separate were honoured. And the worse thing that ever happened to Djibouti had been the collapse of the Somali state. Perhaps a few could recall how dependent Djibouti is and had been to the old republic. An honest conversation with the Somalis from the Somali state of Ethiopia, or NFD would provide the stark anguish felt and affliction endured by Somalis of these regions as a result of the collapse of the old republic. From such conversations, a true sense of and portrayal of what constitutes being Somali could be conjured up. Tragic as it might appear, Somalis of the old republic do not quite seem to have absorbed as to the gravity and excruciating painful lessons inherited as a result.

 

Do I wish to see another Somali region(s) under similar dire destitution, indigence and starved of resources. Not quite. But then again that is my desire. Not the wishes of the proponents of secession and separation. Who is anyone to say otherwise if the object of their desire is to go it alone?

 

You will note that never would I advocate for the restoration of a government similar in any shape or form to that of the military regime for such would a crime against humanity, and I have no intention of making an appearance alongside Milosovic in the Hague.

 

Conversely, it is present day Somaliland that is being in that category, but if, and I know it is hypothetical at this stage (but then again in 1993 when the case for Puntland was tabled, I recall some staunch opposition including hard core present day hardliners), Puntland was to follow suit, what would be the stance of Somalis of Puntland? Valid question, one might say? How about the Southwest (RRA Riviera)?

 

We must be able to distinguish between the desire and the actuality. And we must be honest in our rationale and analysis.

 

By the way, I quite like the Bari Geeljire nickname, somehow there seem to be a contradiction as Bari had not been known to have had Geel but Kalluun. Then Bari Kalluun does not quite have the same ring to it as Bari Geeljire. Interesting pun to share, eh! Forgive me if you do not see the humour side of it mate.

 

Cheers.

[AYOUB]

lol Samurai, I always wonder what you think of Oodweyne calling you 'pamphleteer' or 'Jack', do you see where he is coming from?

[miles-militis]

Ayoub_Sheikh - Try me. What did I miss?

[A.J. Timacadeh]

this is a very senssitive subject to all somali's abd it should be dealt with very carefully. i personally would allow somaliland or puntland for that matter to stand on it's own legs. soon enough they will realize that they should be united with their somali brothers if they are to prosper. if they do succeed being a good independent state we should congratulate them as a succesfull somali people.