Extremist Propaganda Justice

[Meiji]

Somali Islamists cut off hands, feet of thieves

 

MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) — An Islamic court in Somalia on Thursday cut off a hand and foot from each of four men convicted of stealing phones and guns, drawing hundreds of onlookers as the weeping men were punished at a military camp.

 

The Shariah court that carried out the sentences is run by the powerful insurgent group al-Shabab, which is trying to topple Somalia's U.N.-backed government and install a strict form of Islam.

 

"The men were bleeding and crying when the man cut their hands and feet off with a long knife," said one witness, Liban Ali. Journalists were not allowed to cover the sentencing. The four were convicted earlier this week in the capital, Mogadishu.

 

The U.S. considers al-Shabab a terrorist group with links to al-Qaida, which al-Shabab denies. The group, which controls much of Somalia, is joined by hundreds of foreign fighters.

 

Somalis traditionally observe Sufi Islam, a relatively moderate form of worship. But in recent years, insurgents have begun to follow austere Wahabi Islam — rooted in Saudi Arabia and practiced by Osama bin Laden and the Taliban.

 

Somalia has not had an effective government since 1991 when the overthrow of a dictatorship plunged the country into chaos. A surge in violence in recent weeks, which diplomats said is a major push by the insurgents to force the government out of its Mogadishu strongholds, has killed about 225 people.

 

Last week, the national security minister and Mogadishu's police chief were among those killed.

 

The country's lawlessness has spread security fears round the region and raised concerns that al-Qaida is trying to gain a foothold in the Horn of Africa.

 

Somali lawmakers pleaded this weekend for immediate international military intervention from countries including Kenya, Ethiopia and Djibouti to help quash the insurgency. But there was no indication reinforcements would be forthcoming.

 

Some 159,000 people have fled their homes since May 7, according to the U.N. refugee agency. The United Nations says an estimated 3.2 million Somalis — almost half the country's population — need food and other humanitarian aid.

 

Two years ago, Ethiopia deployed troops to support Somalia's fragile, Western-backed government, but they were widely unpopular and finally withdrawn in January.

 

Source: AP, June 25, 2009

[Meiji]

Can the Alshabab supporters and sympathizers answer the below questions

 

Few questions concerning the case of robbery:

 

- Is robbery not a result of lawlessness and lawlessness not a result of anarchy and conflict?

- Shouldn’t we target the societal problem systematically and thoroughly by solving the causes instead of cutting off arms and legs?

- Aren’t people product of their environment and shouldn’t we take the environment in which those people live into consideration?

 

Few questions concerning the case of ‘’trial’’:

 

- Was the judge an independent official working in an independent judiciary system or a member of Alshabab which automatically makes him biased and politically oriented/motivated?

- Was there any transparency concerning the trial process? Who defended the 4 young men? How long did the trial take place? Are they the only robbers in Mogadishu?

- Why have they proceeded to this controversial sentence amidst a heated conflict in Mogadishu city and Somalia in general? Is it part of their war, namely part of their Propaganda war?

 

Few questions in general:

 

- Is this the way the extremists solve societal ills?

- Will they apply such shortsighted, politically motivated, highly obscure and secretive procedures in solving other societal ills?

[General Duke]

^^^Their leaders need to be executed when captured. Give them their own medicine.

[Meiji]

How old is the kid that has been used for this propaganda display?

 

Not older than 14-16 years.

 

Perhaps they would like him to blow himself up and in the process kill dozens of civilians instead of allegedly robbing people from their mobile phones.

 

Justice should be applied to everyone and we need GENUINE JUSTICE, and not politically-motivate d Justice.

[me]

Come on Meiji you can do better then that.

 

You are trying to discredit those guys by using their PR, haven't you heard of the saying there is no such thing as bad publicity?

 

The situation is Somalia is what it is. Unfortunately our people have no access to Swedish courts or Dutch Police.

 

The Somali people should do what they have to do to stop criminals from stealing their bread.

 

In Somalia today if you loose your bread, you are condemned to death.

 

Those guys stole other people’s property and condemned them to death.

 

It is easy to say that in Norway they are so humane. But let’s look at the situation in Somalia for what it is.

 

It is far from perfect and there is allot of room for improvement, but we are on the right way.

 

There should be zero tolerance for crime.

[Meiji]

Me,

 

I am against the fact that political pretenders mis-use the widely cherished concept of Justice. Somalia needs real justice not politically-motivate d Justice and superficial measures to tackle societal ills with their deep roots.

 

I have asked legitimate questions which need to be answered if we are really interested in discussing and pursuing justice.

 

As for:

 

In Somalia today if you loose your bread, you are condemned to death.

 

Those guys stole other people’s property and condemned them to death

In such a context, those that do not have the means to earn a living and thus are condemned to death are logically forced to survive even if it means harming others.

 

We need to change that context instead of cutting limbs because we want to score political points.

 

 

As for crime itself, there should be zero-tolerance but this does not mean that political pretenders will excute their propaganda and extremist agenda under the cover of ''combatting crime''.

 

There are several activities in which they are engaged which can be termed crime. Should we battle that too?

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by me:

It is far from perfect and there is allot of room for improvement, but we are on the right way.

 

There should be zero tolerance for crime.

I agree. It's a great solution for Somalia's problem. Lets start a campaign today.

 

Stop our kids from becoming future criminals, cut their limps today

 

Don't they do something similar to horses? Or was that excited bulls? Same thing.

[me]

Ngonge,

 

No need to stretch the topic. We are dealing with crimes that took place, no one is looking into hypotehtical future crimes here.

 

Meiji,

 

As for crime itself, there should be zero-tolerance but this does not mean that political pretenders will excute their propaganda and extremist agenda under the cover of ''combatting crime''.

Who should stop the criminals then? Should we send in the TFG? Maybe you are on to something here.....we all familiar with the saying Tuug, tuug baa loo diraa.

[Fabregas]

I agree with you that this an unsuitable punishment for such young men living in a war torn country. They should have given them a lesser punishment or simply cancelled it whilst threatening to actually carry out such harsh punishment for any future robbers.

 

But I do think the guys did probably commit this crime and Shababs are not doing it for PR; but, because they believe this is the salvation to deter Somalis from crime.

[NGONGE]

^^ (look who you're talking to, mate).

 

Mr ME,

I am not stretching any topic, saaxib. It is pure, unadulterated and utter ridicule.

 

You don't seem to be speaking from an Islamic viewpoint or a legal viewpoint. It's not even an eye for an eye (they're taking arms and legs too). Zero tolerance means nothing in this instance.

[me]

I am speaking as a citizen that is tired of criminals getting away with their crimes. When criminals realize there is a price they will have to pay for their crimes, the safer normal normal people will be.

 

You can talk the talk, but if your family was in Muqdisho today, you would be speaking with a different tone.

 

The mobb is pleased and criminals are deterred, end of story.

 

The rest is hot air.

[NGONGE]

^^ Got you now. No wonder you agree with them. Carry on (this discussion is not for the likes of me).

[NASSIR]

Me, brother,a just law is a law made equal. The only wise question you should ask your heart and mind is do people recognize, trust, and support al-Shabaab as the legitimate authority to carry out Shariah.

I thought you were a man who championns the consent of the people as opposed to coercion.

 

Here is a post I made that is relevant to this thread and to which I received a positive feedback in my pm from one of our keen foreign observers.

 

 

thank you for the time and effort taken to post the belowright on the money IMO

 

cheers

 

.

The implementation of Sharia law is the way forward, but its application needs circumspection and careful deliberation and established national judges with great credentials of religious background and probity, who can understand time's prerequisites.

 

Good Times and circumstances of the past have dramatically shifted towards a chaotic world and a world of dishonesty and perfidy, greed and poverty. It's hard to implement the application of the cutting of hands for a mere shoplifting given the circumstances we are in. Human beings are fallible, judgemental, biased, subjective and divided over the complete and fair interpretation of the laws of Allah according to the right circumstances. Case in point is the stonning of the 16 yearl girl--that we all wept and grieved for her great deal of suffering--under the shaddow of the power struggle between the opposing forces of the TFG.

 

Look at how the scarcity of trustworthiness rooted in our culture today manifest itself from the past. When an English traveler under the contractual service of the Common Wealth Ministry visited Sanaag in 1843, he was marveled at the hospitality and extreme honesty of the inhabitants. He reported that "to call a man thief is a deadly insult to be washed by blood alone."That you could leave your personal property in an open marketplace with high concentration of particapants without having to worry about their loss was the norm.Compare that era to the present one, you are hardly equipped with such thoughts of complete integrity with todays'people.------ ------- -------------------- -------

If you don't live on the edge, you can't see the view

[Nehanda]

Me- it is cruel of you to justify these lawless thugs you who properly never experienced starvation and constant humiliation. What do you expect from a war torn country with so much poverty and destruction. Wouldn't you do anything it takes to survive if may be steal or prostitute?

 

Rather than showing compassion and improving the livelihoods of their people they go and maim them. What a bunch of ******! Nobody elected them or even wanted them so what gives them the right to impose heinous laws.

[Juje]

"Naxdin ayuu ahaa falkasi , qeylo iyo ashahaad ayaa ka yeerayay kooxda la gacan gooyay , waan fiirin waayay"

ayuu yiri gob joogahaan is qariya.