Women travelling

[Jaabir]

Originally posted by Captivating_SouL:

close this thread please!

sounds like a good deal to me...

[Baashi]

“Minds are like parachutes” wise sage once said “ They only function when they are open.” Some nomads are resisting to do just that - open our minds. No character assassination is engaged here and no one is telling anyone what to do or how he or she should behave or in that matter practice his/her religion. We are having discussion and it seems the discussion took a turn of its own.

 

A sister came to this site and asked simple question. I personally prefer to direct my inquiries to those who are best equipped to answer them - Ulama u Deen. Nevertheless, she posted her question. Some made the effort to provide answers to the sister. Opinionated disagrees the Mahram “idea” in general and her contribution was only negative name-calling. She invokes the existence of four Islamic jurisprudence schools and how that is relevant to this (If one disagree the whole idea, variations of that idea are irrelevant) is something I’m very interested in; considering she hasn’t answered this: Which Islamic scholar does Opinionated agree with on the question of the Mahram? and what is his position on this question?

 

Those who wanted to get clarification to this seemingly strange position has been accused of many crimes: curtailing freedom of expression, character assassination, dictating how others live thier lifes, questioning what others practice, and the last but not least arrogance, pomposity, and self-righteousness. CLOSE this topic some commanded the admin because they supposedly disgusted where things are heading. I personally would like to see Opinionated answer these questions without crying wolf because no one is out to destroy her. What is this talk of fairness that’s being thrown into this discussion anyway? Yes, others have posted different interpretation of the Mahram and provided sources.

[Libaax-Sankataabte]

Originally posted by Baashi:

We are having discussion and it seems the discussion took a turn of its own.

 

Those who wanted to get clarification to this seemingly strange position has been accused of many crimes: curtailing freedom of expression, character assassination, dictating how others live thier life, questioning what others practice, and the last but not least arrogance, pomposity, and self-righteousness.

I am actually surprised by the remarks of quite a few folks here.

 

Baashi, walaahi I remain at a loss as to where this misunderstanding arose. Who is personally after Opinionated? why?

 

Islam is an issue of genuine concern to all of us (or should I say atleast the majority of us) and it is natural for muslim nomads to feel compelled to challenge those who belittle and redicule Islam.

 

See, it is all about respect and respect starts with respecting each other's sacred values. If one doesn't feel he/she is obligated to agree with the laws of Allah, he/she should not make such comment and expect not to be challenged. I say just keep your beliefs to yourself and don't call Islamic directives "a bunch of crock". Just be alittle tolerant of others.

 

Ma wa kalaa meesha yaalla?

[Reality Check]

Baashi,

 

What part of "I don't practice the mahram concept" do you not understand? I don't have to tell you what 4 scholars I follow, as there are many scholars that existed after the 4. Now, I would like to see you ask ALL the people that disagreed along with me asked the exact same question.

 

**shaking my head**

[Taqwa]

Assalamu Alaikum Wr Wb,

 

Why are you all wasting personal time on someone who obviously lacks Islamic Knowledge. She'll probably argue this statement. Such dumb comments deserve such harsh responds. What did you expect, a pat on the back and a smile.

 

p.s. Naa Ilaahay garee, orodo diinta baro inabtii.

[Reality Check]

Taqwa,

 

And thank you for that intelligent contribution to this topic!! :rolleyes:

[Baashi]

Originally posted by Opinionated:

Baashi,

 

What part of "I don't practice the mahram concept" do you not understand? I don't have to tell you what 4 scholars I follow, as there are many scholars that existed after the 4. Now, I would like to see you ask ALL the people that disagreed along with me asked the exact same question.

 

**shaking my head**

I stand corrected. "I don't practice it" and "I don't agree with the 'idea' " are 2 different statements.

 

Would u help me identify these people u are refering to...I will let the forces of 'preventing vice and enforcing virtue' do their job

 

On a serious note though don't belittle or badmouth our religion as the Lion-teaser pointed out. Whether u practice it or not is little concern to me.

[Reality Check]

Baashi,

 

Don't you have better things to do brother?

[Baashi]

Yes and I'm top of it. What better thing is there than to expose someone who make habit to riducle Islam. Demanding respect of other nomads' 'sacred values' is not too much to ask.

 

I'm working...making bundle and the some time I'm enjoying the company of all of u.

[Macalin]

ACWW.

 

Sister Opinion,Can you please let this GO? a, sure if u stop responding this will definetly stop as most JABS are aimed at YA...unless yu get a kick out of it....

 

I don know if i command much respect from you but ths one time i ask u kindly to DROP this.....PLEASE!!

 

Good luck

[Reality Check]

Originally posted by Baashi:

Demanding respect of other nomads' 'sacred values' is not too much to ask.

I'm glad you mentioned respect. And where in this thread did I disrespect S.O.L.ers without instigation? is demanding the respect of my personal values too much to ask? :rolleyes:

 

Lakkad,

 

Brother, Am I the only poster in this thread?

[Macalin]

^^Point taken sis!

[Baashi]

When do pple cease to project their negative outlook to others. I and Op., are two mature opinionated nomads and we are chatting here and will continue to do so untill one of us feel otherwise. I think we are making progress in understanding each other. I know I do.

 

Originally posted by Opinionated:

I'm glad you mentioned respect. And where in this thread did I disrespect S.O.L.ers without instigation?

Now, let see! Calling the mahram 'idea' a bunch of crock is not a respectfull thing to do or is it?. Equating women who embrace mahram as an obligation of their faith to a children in need of protection and 'chaporoning' is a form of riducling and belittling everything that Islamic directive stands for. What u practice is your perogative and u know what u do and practice is not an issue here. You don't have a license to libel - that's all.

 

is demanding the respect of my personal values too much to ask? :rolleyes:

NO, it is not my darling; and I'm willing to oblige ur wish. Opinions of what others practice is another issue, however. Did I dissrespect u or ur personal values in any way or form? cuz if I did I'm nomad enough to retract it and extend my sincere apology.

[Reality Check]

Originally posted by Baashi:

Calling the mahram 'idea' a bunch of crock is not a respectfull thing to do or is it?. Equating women who embrace mahram as an obligation of their faith to a children in need of protection and 'chaporoning' is a form of riducling and belittling everything that Islamic directive stands for. What u practice is your perogative and u know what u do and practice is not an issue here. You don't have a license to libel - that's all.

Thats what I think of the issue that was being discussed. Now, did I make negative remarks to OTHER nomads? Nope. Did I question their entire faith outside this issue? Nope. Did I make references to their Nicknames? Nope. I don't see why they should. Now whether you take my stance on the issue as negative or positive is your perogative. This is a forum. See where I am coming from? You might not like my reasons but I did not cuss people out! Oh well thought. This is getting all too redundant for my taste anyway.

 

peace

[Jaabir]

Opinionated,,, these are some Hadiith’s of our prophet Muhamad PBUH concerning the Maxram issue..

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Volume 2, Book 20, Number 194:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet (p.b.u.h) said, "It is not permissible for a woman who believes in Allah and the Last Day to travel for one day and night except with a Mahram."

 

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Book 007, Number 3096:

 

Ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with them) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A woman should not set out on three (days' journey) except when she has a Mahram with her.

 

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Book 20, Number 20.77.263:

 

Malik said, concerning a woman who had never been on hajj, "If she doesn't have a mahram, or if she has, but he cannot come with her, she does not abandon Allah's making of the hajj obligatory for her. Let her go in a group of women."

Malik related to me from Said ibn Abi Said al-Maqburi from Abu Hurayra that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "It is not halal for a woman who believes in Allah and the Last Day to travel the distance of a day and night without a man who is her mahram."

 

 

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Volume 3, Book 29, Number 85:

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

 

The Prophet said, "A woman should not travel except with a Dhu-Mahram (her husband or a man with whom that woman cannot marry at all according to the Islamic Jurisprudence), and no man may visit her except in the presence of a Dhu-Mahram." A man got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I intend to go to such and such an army and my wife wants to perform Hajj." The Prophet said (to him), "Go along with her (to Hajj)."

 

 

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Volume 3, Book 29, Number 87:

Narrated Qaza'a, the slave of Ziyad: Abu Said who participated in twelve Ghazawat with the Prophet said, "I heard four things from Allah's Apostle (or I narrate them from the Prophet ) which won my admiration and appreciation. They are:

 

1. "No lady should travel without her husband or without a Dhu-Mahram for a two-days' journey.

 

2. No fasting is permissible on two days of 'Id-al-Fitr, and 'Id-al-Adha.

 

3. No prayer (may be offered) after two prayers: after the 'Asr prayer till the sun set and after the morning prayer till the sun rises.

 

4. Not to travel (for visiting) except for three mosques: Masjid-al-Haram (in Mecca), my Mosque (in Medina), and Masjid-al-Aqsa (in Jerusalem)."

 

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Now let me ask you this simple Yes or No question… Having read these hadiiths do you still think the Maxram issue is a bunch of crook?